(09-01-2022 06:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:21 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:38 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:28 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  This is a terrible take. West Virginia is one of the poorest states and is one of three states that shrunk at the 2020 census. Utah, Arizona, and Colorado are comparatively wealthy, comparatively wealthy, and some of the quickest growing states in the country.

Any advertiser would choose the latter.

Except that WVU also turns on TV sets reliably in both the Pittsburgh and DC markets which have wealth and also has as strong of a national brand with a program that's top 25 all time wins and won 3 BCS bowls.

Yes. As I said, WVU is severely underrated on these boards. They have been a really good addition, getting the Big 12 coverage in lots of places in the east. WVU fans just care more. And there is a big diaspora. It doesn't matter that Colorado has 3 times as many people as West Virginia when they don't pay attention to CU athletics.

You can make the “diaspora” argument with any school. And as was discussed in Matt’s article (I think - might be someone else), the number of viewers is only part of the equation. Demographics matter a lot, and WVU is not strong in that category. If a firm is trying to enter a new market or grow market share, they will want to do that in a wealthy, growing market.

WV owns the state. Its not just the disapora of WVU alums. Wealthy can be a factor. But beer companies, couch companies and lighter fluid companies love West Virginia!

Don't forget Big Pharma.

(09-01-2022 02:17 PM)YNot Wrote:  Who is saying that the Big 12 will take all of the Four Corner schools? Yormark was clear that the Big 12 will not make dilutive moves. The Big 12 wants 2 or 3 more schools for late night content and new, attractive markets.

How are all Four NOT dilutive to the Big 12?

They won't listen lol. Our alumni group is saying adding all 4 does not have the votes.

(09-01-2022 07:50 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 06:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:21 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:38 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Except that WVU also turns on TV sets reliably in both the Pittsburgh and DC markets which have wealth and also has as strong of a national brand with a program that's top 25 all time wins and won 3 BCS bowls.

Yes. As I said, WVU is severely underrated on these boards. They have been a really good addition, getting the Big 12 coverage in lots of places in the east. WVU fans just care more. And there is a big diaspora. It doesn't matter that Colorado has 3 times as many people as West Virginia when they don't pay attention to CU athletics.

You can make the “diaspora” argument with any school. And as was discussed in Matt’s article (I think - might be someone else), the number of viewers is only part of the equation. Demographics matter a lot, and WVU is not strong in that category. If a firm is trying to enter a new market or grow market share, they will want to do that in a wealthy, growing market.

WV owns the state. Its not just the disapora of WVU alums. Wealthy can be a factor. But beer companies, couch companies and lighter fluid companies love West Virginia!

Don't forget Big Pharma.

And guess what? 3rd quarter and they already have run out of beer at Pittsburg!

(09-01-2022 01:11 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 12:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:15 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What I'm thinking is ... let's say that Stanford, Oregon, Cal and UW do leave for the B1G.

Now, the PAC is dead. So what next?

Sure, the nB12 could extend an invite to the four corners, who then join.

But what if the four corners say to themselves "we're more valuable than any four nB12 schools, so rather than us coming to them, they come to us, and we don't need all of them"?

Maybe a conference that looks like this ...

Arizona State
Arizona
Colorado
Utah
Kansas
Kansas State
Texas Tech
Baylor
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Iowa State


IMO, this conference, call it what you want - could have more media value than a 16-team nB12. And if so, I don't think nB12 exit fees are a significant barrier to entry. You don't let $80m stand in the way of a more-profitable conference.

No?

What about Washington State and Oregon State?

Quo is saying the PAC died and the traditional Big12 members left the Big12 to join a new conference formed by the 4 Corners (Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado)

Which is still preposterous.

Big 12 members:
- Lose their Texas and OU exit fees and GOR leverage
- Have to pay Exit fees of their own to WVU, Houston, Cincy, and UCF
- Lose the Eastern Time Zone

///

Even if we lived out the Quo's dream scenario...
WVU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF is a strong enough core to invite SMU, Memphis, ECU, and Tulane whose only purpose is to survive till 2030s for next round of realignment. This Big 12 Zombie Conference still has autonomy status, all the exit fees from most of the members leaving, and Texas/OU GOR leverage.

The 4 corners have no more value than WVU (probably a little less-WVU gets significantly undervalued) and not significantly more than Houston, Cincinnati and UCF. And from a recruiting standpoint the 4 corners have significantly less value. The proposal makes zero sense.

Without the top PAC schools, the 4 corners are not valuable. Basically mountain west dna. Not setup well to succeed either. I’m not sure they add value to a conference outside of the benefits of consolidation into a single leftover conference

Can you name a foursome from the nB12 that are more valuable than the four corners?

I can't.

(09-01-2022 08:44 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Basically a lot of the threads on this board boil down to "can we please design a conference so we can cut out UC, UH and UCF". Alternatively, it's "The BXII (along with UC, UH and UCF) are going to get a $15M a year deal."

This was likely a designed troll post by the op. Post something outrageous that everyone knows has 0% of occurring.

(09-02-2022 12:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:11 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 12:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:15 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  What about Washington State and Oregon State?

Quo is saying the PAC died and the traditional Big12 members left the Big12 to join a new conference formed by the 4 Corners (Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado)

Which is still preposterous.

Big 12 members:
- Lose their Texas and OU exit fees and GOR leverage
- Have to pay Exit fees of their own to WVU, Houston, Cincy, and UCF
- Lose the Eastern Time Zone

///

Even if we lived out the Quo's dream scenario...
WVU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF is a strong enough core to invite SMU, Memphis, ECU, and Tulane whose only purpose is to survive till 2030s for next round of realignment. This Big 12 Zombie Conference still has autonomy status, all the exit fees from most of the members leaving, and Texas/OU GOR leverage.

The 4 corners have no more value than WVU (probably a little less-WVU gets significantly undervalued) and not significantly more than Houston, Cincinnati and UCF. And from a recruiting standpoint the 4 corners have significantly less value. The proposal makes zero sense.

Without the top PAC schools, the 4 corners are not valuable. Basically mountain west dna. Not setup well to succeed either. I’m not sure they add value to a conference outside of the benefits of consolidation into a single leftover conference

Can you name a foursome from the nB12 that are more valuable than the four corners?

I can't.

According to the WSJ it would be Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech and it's not really close.

(09-02-2022 12:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:11 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 12:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:15 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  What about Washington State and Oregon State?

Quo is saying the PAC died and the traditional Big12 members left the Big12 to join a new conference formed by the 4 Corners (Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado)

Which is still preposterous.

Big 12 members:
- Lose their Texas and OU exit fees and GOR leverage
- Have to pay Exit fees of their own to WVU, Houston, Cincy, and UCF
- Lose the Eastern Time Zone

///

Even if we lived out the Quo's dream scenario...
WVU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF is a strong enough core to invite SMU, Memphis, ECU, and Tulane whose only purpose is to survive till 2030s for next round of realignment. This Big 12 Zombie Conference still has autonomy status, all the exit fees from most of the members leaving, and Texas/OU GOR leverage.

The 4 corners have no more value than WVU (probably a little less-WVU gets significantly undervalued) and not significantly more than Houston, Cincinnati and UCF. And from a recruiting standpoint the 4 corners have significantly less value. The proposal makes zero sense.

Without the top PAC schools, the 4 corners are not valuable. Basically mountain west dna. Not setup well to succeed either. I’m not sure they add value to a conference outside of the benefits of consolidation into a single leftover conference

Can you name a foursome from the nB12 that are more valuable than the four corners?

I can't.

Define value. In terms of conference re-alignment I would assume that would mean television viewers since that's what the networks care about. According to this assessment, a total of 5 nB12 teams draw more viewers than even the most highly viewed of the four corners and all but 2 nB12 teams draw more viewer than least viewed of the four.

https://sicem365.com/s/13048/how-many-vi...-attract/1

Four Corners:

Utah (2.226M)
Arizona State (2.054M)
Arizona (1.572M)
Colorado (1.549M)

New Big12:

Oklahoma State (3.574M)
Baylor (3.103M)
TCU (2.966M)
West Virginia (2.587M)
Texas Tech (2.271M)
Iowa State (2.074M)
Kansas State (2.008M)
BYU (1.651M)
UCF (1.629M)
Cincinnati (1.557M)
Houston (1.409M)
Kansas (876K)

(09-01-2022 01:11 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 12:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:15 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 09:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What I'm thinking is ... let's say that Stanford, Oregon, Cal and UW do leave for the B1G.

Now, the PAC is dead. So what next?

Sure, the nB12 could extend an invite to the four corners, who then join.

But what if the four corners say to themselves "we're more valuable than any four nB12 schools, so rather than us coming to them, they come to us, and we don't need all of them"?

Maybe a conference that looks like this ...

Arizona State
Arizona
Colorado
Utah
Kansas
Kansas State
Texas Tech
Baylor
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Iowa State


IMO, this conference, call it what you want - could have more media value than a 16-team nB12. And if so, I don't think nB12 exit fees are a significant barrier to entry. You don't let $80m stand in the way of a more-profitable conference.

No?

What about Washington State and Oregon State?

Quo is saying the PAC died and the traditional Big12 members left the Big12 to join a new conference formed by the 4 Corners (Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado)

Which is still preposterous.

Big 12 members:
- Lose their Texas and OU exit fees and GOR leverage
- Have to pay Exit fees of their own to WVU, Houston, Cincy, and UCF
- Lose the Eastern Time Zone

///

Even if we lived out the Quo's dream scenario...
WVU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF is a strong enough core to invite SMU, Memphis, ECU, and Tulane whose only purpose is to survive till 2030s for next round of realignment. This Big 12 Zombie Conference still has autonomy status, all the exit fees from most of the members leaving, and Texas/OU GOR leverage.

The 4 corners have no more value than WVU (probably a little less-WVU gets significantly undervalued) and not significantly more than Houston, Cincinnati and UCF. And from a recruiting standpoint the 4 corners have significantly less value. The proposal makes zero sense.

Without the top PAC schools, the 4 corners are not valuable. Basically mountain west dna. Not setup well to succeed either. I’m not sure they add value to a conference outside of the benefits of consolidation into a single leftover conference

The Four Corners schools are much larger than the MWC schools.

Enrollment
72,000 - ASU
43,600 - Arizona
35,600 - SDSU (biggest MWC school)
33,200 - Colorado
33,000 - Utah
27,000 - MWC average (not counting Air Force)
20,700 - MAC average

Endowment
2.12 billion - Colorado
1.32 billion - Utah
1.26 billion - Arizona
1.25 billion - ASU
746 million - Wyoming (biggest MWC school)
417 million - MAC average
415 million - MWC average (not counting Air Force)


The Four Corners schools also have much stronger athletic departments than MWC schools.

National Titles in football
Colorado - 1990
Arizona State - 1970, 1975 (both from minor selectors)
Utah - 2008 (minor selectors)
MWC - none

Final Fours in Basketball
Arizona - 5
Colorado - 2
UNLV - 4
Utah - 4
All MWC other than UNLV - none

National Titles in baseball
Arizona - 1976, 1980, 1986, 2012
Arizona State - 1965, 1967, 1969, 1977, 1981
MWC - None

Football attendance 2019
49,573 - Colorado
49,166 - Arizona State
46,462 - Utah
39,532 - Arizona
32,070 - Boise (biggest MWC school)
23,232 - MWC average
15,530 - MAC average

Basketball attendance 2019

13,744 - Arizona
11,067 - Utah
10,538 - Arizona State
6,868 - Colorado
6,447 - MWC average
4,395 - MVC average

Total National Championships in Team Sports
27 - Colorado
24 - Arizona State
24 - Utah
23 - Total of all 12 WMC schools
19 - Arizona

(09-01-2022 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What I'm thinking is ... let's say that Stanford, Oregon, Cal and UW do leave for the B1G.

Now, the PAC is dead. So what next?

Sure, the nB12 could extend an invite to the four corners, who then join.

But what if the four corners say to themselves "we're more valuable than any four nB12 schools, so rather than us coming to them, they come to us, and we don't need all of them"?

Maybe a conference that looks like this ...

Arizona State
Arizona
Colorado
Utah
Kansas
Kansas State
Texas Tech
Baylor
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Iowa State


IMO, this conference, call it what you want - could have more media value than a 16-team nB12. And if so, I don't think nB12 exit fees are a significant barrier to entry. You don't let $80m stand in the way of a more-profitable conference.

No?

I'm not convinced that the 4C even add value to the nbig12. However, it's possible that the conference that you list would have marginally more value than a theoretical big16 that included the 4C. How much more? Let's say it's $5m more per school, a wildly optimistic assumption. That would take 16 years to recoup the $80m buyout for leaving the big 12. But when you factor in the time value of money they might not ever actually get all of that $80m back. So...no.

(09-01-2022 08:15 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 08:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 07:58 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  NO!!! There is no legal mechanism to push out the nBig 12. It's a gargantuan lawsuit that has no chance of losing.

Push out the nB12 in what sense? In my scenario, nB12 schools would leave the nB12 to join a conference formed by the four corners.

The east coast schools are not going to be left homeless like USF. That's a slam dunk lawsuit. They've punched their tickets and are in, period. It's either one conference poaching, or the other, as the Rutgers fan just mentioned regarding OSU/WSU conveniently being left out of your setup. I don't know why we have to draw up these implausible scenarios when there are real updates almost every day and the season is about to kickstart.

There is a scenario where the east coast schools are offered safe passage into the ACC. Then, we'd see an ACC 17 or 18 and a Big 16 (remaining PAC6 + 9, with SDSU). But this requires multiple media partners and presidents aligning all at once.

As of now, I don't think the Big 12 has any interest losing UCF and UC, unless its for the right price. They will need something BIG in return, or the corner 4 will have to give them some ultimatum such as, "our student athletes cannot be burdened by excessive travel demands.... yada yada" which also makes no sense because Orlando is readily accessible. WVU is more problematic in terms of travel to and from MTZ schools, but they have been a decade long member and can't just be kicked out without massive, massive compensation.

Ideally, ESPN can leverage the ACC network and streaming platforms, find exclusive tier 1 slots for Clemson/FSU games, and move east coast Big 12 schools over to the ACC, but frankly, they are already saturated with ACC/SEC games. They don't even need the midwest Big 12 teams so long as they secure rights to mountain and pacific schools in the potential Big 16/B1G 20.

ESPN needs everything they can get, especially now that they're locked out of the B1G until at least 2030. Even if a conference is mostly, or exclusively, T2/T3, just getting all those fans of those different schools into the ESPN ecosystem is a serious boon to their long-term success, plus it synergizes well with parent corporation Disney. ESPN is the one thing that Disney has that no other streaming service offers. It's too bad Fox doesn't have more of a streaming presence, that would really boost their value significantly to someone like netflix if they did.

(09-01-2022 08:26 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 07:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What I'm thinking is ... let's say that Stanford, Oregon, Cal and UW do leave for the B1G.

Now, the PAC is dead. So what next?

Sure, the nB12 could extend an invite to the four corners, who then join.

But what if the four corners say to themselves "we're more valuable than any four nB12 schools, so rather than us coming to them, they come to us, and we don't need all of them"?

Maybe a conference that looks like this ...

Arizona State
Arizona
Colorado
Utah
Kansas
Kansas State
Texas Tech
Baylor
Oklahoma State
TCU
BYU
Iowa State


IMO, this conference, call it what you want - could have more media value than a 16-team nB12. And if so, I don't think nB12 exit fees are a significant barrier to entry. You don't let $80m stand in the way of a more-profitable conference.

No?

No. You don't get to wave a wand on the exit fee issue and declare it not a problem. Profitability remains an issue when you have take on an $80M debt per team just to make move that the four corner schools can make for free.

I don't support dropping any school in the Big 12 because those are the conference mates that made the Big 12 stable enough to make this kind of move.

There is no sense in dropping the eastern components. The Big 12 isn't a western conference. It is a central conference with eastern (and now western components). Houston has a long history with the SWC teams and adds primary market access in Houston. For better or for worse, the Big 12 needs direct access to that territory following UT and A&M's departure. Houston may not put butts in seats, but they do have decent broadcast audience. Houston stays.

West Virginia and Cincy are every bit as historic programs and brands as ASU and Arizona are. West Virginia in particular can be found amongst the most valuable brands in college football. They have a small state, but their fan base diaspora is much larger and even regionally they pull strongly from Pittsburgh to Washington D.C. Cincy is the second team in the state of Ohio. Ohio State may dominate that state, but if Kansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Iowa, and really many other states can field two P5 level programs then Ohio certainly can. They stay.

UCF is the only addition I'm not wild about, but it isn't because their program lacks potential. Primary market access in Orlando, adding Florida to the footprint, this is valuable. Being the largest school in FBS is valuable. They've found success at every level, if they continue to find it in the Big 12 then they could be the next FSU type program. With increasing populations, there are going to be new and up and coming type schools that become your future bluebloods or new bloods. That very well could be UCF. If the Big 12 is going to have an eastern presence, then Florida recruiting will be key. They stay.

Yeah, I feel like you guys hit a home run with your additions last year, it was a fantastic recovery. The 4C are highly unlikely to attach any conditions to joining the big 12, but if they do then you guys don't need them, anyway. Let them rot in the rumpPac.

(09-01-2022 10:39 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 08:44 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Basically a lot of the threads on this board boil down to "can we please design a conference so we can cut out UC, UH and UCF". Alternatively, it's "The BXII (along with UC, UH and UCF) are going to get a $15M a year deal."

It COULD happen though.

If TT, OSU, and Kansas decide to leave, it would destroy the value of the nB12. If they left, everyone else would push each other out of the way to join them.

So if the Four Corners, TT, OSU, and Kansas start seriously talking about forming a new conference, they might get all 5 other B12 left-behinds on board. That would probably negate the B12 exit fee, as the new members are probably not entitled to receiving exit fees yet.

So they could (if they wanted to) replace UC, UH, UCF, and BYU with the Four Corners schools.


The only school unhappy with this scenario might be WVU. So I doubt it will happen, because WVU could always threaten to stay behind and collect a mind-boggling amount of exit fees. $80 million exit fee x 9 schools, plus all NCAA basketball tournament credits, plus negotiated fees to leave early would easily top $1 billion.

That's 1.3% of the WV State GDP in 2021. This CFB thing might be catching on.

(09-01-2022 02:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:38 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:28 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 12:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  The 4 corners have no more value than WVU (probably a little less-WVU gets significantly undervalued)

This is a terrible take. West Virginia is one of the poorest states and is one of three states that shrunk at the 2020 census. Utah, Arizona, and Colorado are comparatively wealthy, comparatively wealthy, and some of the quickest growing states in the country.

Any advertiser would choose the latter.

Except that WVU also turns on TV sets reliably in both the Pittsburgh and DC markets which have wealth and also has as strong of a national brand with a program that's top 25 all time wins and won 3 BCS bowls.

Yes. As I said, WVU is severely underrated on these boards. They have been a really good addition, getting the Big 12 coverage in lots of places in the east. WVU fans just care more. And there is a big diaspora. It doesn't matter that Colorado has 3 times as many people as West Virginia when they don't pay attention to CU athletics.

I agree that WV is an underrated football brand on these boards. In a way, they've brought that on themselves by being mediocre since joining the Big 12, but that said, they are a state flagship and have a decent modicum of brand value - more than most nB12 schools.

That said, I think the four corners schools are collectively a better brand package than any four nB12 schools. You've got three flagships and a quasi-flaghip in that lineup, all schools with either current or past strength. I don't see any nB12 configuration matching that.

Just MO.

Colorado was pretty good, 30 years ago. Since then they've fallen off the map. They're an also-ran with mediocre fan support and low tv numbers now. They're not in a great football region. Utah is awesome, but their state is pretty small and they're unnecessary for a big12 that just got their Big Brother. UA is unnecessary if you get ASU. None of the 4 are in a great football region, and none of them get you the Pacific time zone, either. All you really get from them is 2 mid-sized states and some Academic clout. If I was in charge of the big 12, I'd probably invite ASU and 1 of Colorado/SDSU, then wait to see what happens with the ACC.

Not trying to bash these guys, I do think that the big 12 is interested in them, but they're not "must get" schools like USC or OU. They're "we'll probably accept one or more of them if they apply" schools for the big 12.

(09-02-2022 02:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:38 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:28 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  This is a terrible take. West Virginia is one of the poorest states and is one of three states that shrunk at the 2020 census. Utah, Arizona, and Colorado are comparatively wealthy, comparatively wealthy, and some of the quickest growing states in the country.

Any advertiser would choose the latter.

Except that WVU also turns on TV sets reliably in both the Pittsburgh and DC markets which have wealth and also has as strong of a national brand with a program that's top 25 all time wins and won 3 BCS bowls.

Yes. As I said, WVU is severely underrated on these boards. They have been a really good addition, getting the Big 12 coverage in lots of places in the east. WVU fans just care more. And there is a big diaspora. It doesn't matter that Colorado has 3 times as many people as West Virginia when they don't pay attention to CU athletics.

I agree that WV is an underrated football brand on these boards. In a way, they've brought that on themselves by being mediocre since joining the Big 12, but that said, they are a state flagship and have a decent modicum of brand value - more than most nB12 schools.

That said, I think the four corners schools are collectively a better brand package than any four nB12 schools. You've got three flagships and a quasi-flaghip in that lineup, all schools with either current or past strength. I don't see any nB12 configuration matching that.

Just MO.

Colorado was pretty good, 30 years ago. Since then they've fallen off the map. They're an also-ran with mediocre fan support and low tv numbers now. They're not in a great football region. Utah is awesome, but their state is pretty small and they're unnecessary for a big12 that just got their Big Brother. UA is unnecessary if you get ASU. None of the 4 are in a great football region, and none of them get you the Pacific time zone, either. All you really get from them is 2 mid-sized states and some Academic clout. If I was in charge of the big 12, I'd probably invite ASU and 1 of Colorado/SDSU, then wait to see what happens with the ACC.

Not trying to bash these guys, I do think that the big 12 is interested in them, but they're not "must get" schools like USC or OU. They're "we'll probably accept one or more of them if they apply" schools for the big 12.

largely agree except rumors suggest UA is most interested, followed by UC.
i wouldn't mind UA, UC and SDSU

(09-02-2022 02:25 PM)Huan Wrote:  

(09-02-2022 02:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:14 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 02:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-01-2022 01:38 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Except that WVU also turns on TV sets reliably in both the Pittsburgh and DC markets which have wealth and also has as strong of a national brand with a program that's top 25 all time wins and won 3 BCS bowls.

Yes. As I said, WVU is severely underrated on these boards. They have been a really good addition, getting the Big 12 coverage in lots of places in the east. WVU fans just care more. And there is a big diaspora. It doesn't matter that Colorado has 3 times as many people as West Virginia when they don't pay attention to CU athletics.

I agree that WV is an underrated football brand on these boards. In a way, they've brought that on themselves by being mediocre since joining the Big 12, but that said, they are a state flagship and have a decent modicum of brand value - more than most nB12 schools.

That said, I think the four corners schools are collectively a better brand package than any four nB12 schools. You've got three flagships and a quasi-flaghip in that lineup, all schools with either current or past strength. I don't see any nB12 configuration matching that.

Just MO.

Colorado was pretty good, 30 years ago. Since then they've fallen off the map. They're an also-ran with mediocre fan support and low tv numbers now. They're not in a great football region. Utah is awesome, but their state is pretty small and they're unnecessary for a big12 that just got their Big Brother. UA is unnecessary if you get ASU. None of the 4 are in a great football region, and none of them get you the Pacific time zone, either. All you really get from them is 2 mid-sized states and some Academic clout. If I was in charge of the big 12, I'd probably invite ASU and 1 of Colorado/SDSU, then wait to see what happens with the ACC.

Not trying to bash these guys, I do think that the big 12 is interested in them, but they're not "must get" schools like USC or OU. They're "we'll probably accept one or more of them if they apply" schools for the big 12.

largely agree except rumors suggest UA is most interested, followed by UC.
i wouldn't mind UA, UC and SDSU

Yeah, I was thinking about that after I posted. Really the big 12 just needs 1 in Arizona. ASU would be better but if they're not interested the UA would do just fine.

Maybe bring back the Border Conference:

San Diego State
Fresno State
UNLV
Arizona
Arizona State
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
Texas Tech
Tarleton State

And Mountain Pacific

Colorado
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming
Utah
Utah State
Boise State
Nevada
Washington State
Oregon State
San Jose State
Hawaii