To answer the question in the heading: Yes, current ACC member Florida State would accept an invitation from the B1G. The school would also accept an invitation from the SEC. The only real question is how things would go if the Seminoles must choose between membership in the B1G or the SEC.

Not to put it unkindly, a decision between the ACC and either of the two would not be one to ponder for very long.

The ACC is a distinguished conference. The association has helped Florida State's program realize all its most important goals. The sad fact remains that the ACC has fallen too far behind the other two leagues in revenues. Florida State has to keep its long-range options open.

These moves won't happen for at least a decade because of the grant or rights. My question is, what about UCF? Obviously, they have no chance right now. Give them another ten years, though, and maybe they're a lock for the B1G if Florida State goes to the SEC. They have the largest enrollment in the Florida, they're an R1 university, and they'll have put in over ten years in a P5 conference.

Of course, they need to prove themselves in the Big 12 for this to even have a chance of happening.

(08-17-2022 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  In part, it does depend on the president. The president who stuck FSU with the 20 year GOR was real dismissive of the SEC and Big 12.

I don't think that's true at all.

(08-17-2022 03:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  GarnetAndBlue,

I'm with FTT on this. Everyone is going to have to wait until the 2030s to get their hands on ACC properties (other than maybe Notre Dame). The GOR is unbreakable. And you are never going to convince BC, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Wake and anyone not with an invite in hand at that very moment among VT, UVa, L'ville, Duke to dissolve for the sake of UNC, Miami, Clemson and FSU. Not going to happen. ESPN would have to agree to pay the leftovers $40M per year each (on an escalator) for a very long time, as well as those schools forking over $400M each.

That's like two additional SEC contracts for ESPN with no additional broadcast slots filled and likely not much revenue enhancement. Why would they do that when they were not giving anything extra to get Texas and Oklahoma, who are more valuable properties, into the SEC any earlier than the expiration of the Big 12 GOR?

Not going to happen. Everyone has to wait.

And yes I think the SEC will get the four top ACC properties.

ESPN and the SEC can't help Oklahoma and Texas buy out early. It would merely add fuel to tortuous interference claims. What ESPN can do is to buy the B12 rights and exert some influence that way via a six year contract slightly above value.

Good points.

Those referencing OU and UT as a benchmark for GOR being prohibitive have only a cursory grasp on this imo

(08-17-2022 04:55 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 03:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  GarnetAndBlue,

I'm with FTT on this. Everyone is going to have to wait until the 2030s to get their hands on ACC properties (other than maybe Notre Dame). The GOR is unbreakable. And you are never going to convince BC, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Wake and anyone not with an invite in hand at that very moment among VT, UVa, L'ville, Duke to dissolve for the sake of UNC, Miami, Clemson and FSU. Not going to happen. ESPN would have to agree to pay the leftovers $40M per year each (on an escalator) for a very long time, as well as those schools forking over $400M each.

That's like two additional SEC contracts for ESPN with no additional broadcast slots filled and likely not much revenue enhancement. Why would they do that when they were not giving anything extra to get Texas and Oklahoma, who are more valuable properties, into the SEC any earlier than the expiration of the Big 12 GOR?

Not going to happen. Everyone has to wait.

And yes I think the SEC will get the four top ACC properties.

ESPN and the SEC can't help Oklahoma and Texas buy out early. It would merely add fuel to tortuous interference claims. What ESPN can do is to buy the B12 rights and exert some influence that way via a six year contract slightly above value.

Good points.

Those referencing OU and UT as a benchmark for GOR being prohibitive have only a cursory grasp on this imo

I'm not using UT/OU as a benchmark (perhaps others are). It's the capital for all involved that will otherwise be left on the table if the ACC (in present form) somehow just takes the slow death walk to '36. The top ACC programs will play NIL-ball for a decade and make the most of the lighter competition and rack up enough W's...the bottom programs will cling to life support. They will have traded the chance to recover with schools like UCF/USF/Cincy/WVU/etc and build something healthy and new. Those schools (UCF, etc) - in the meantime - will have spent that time building and improving elsewhere with new rivalries.

(08-17-2022 07:06 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 04:55 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 03:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  GarnetAndBlue,

I'm with FTT on this. Everyone is going to have to wait until the 2030s to get their hands on ACC properties (other than maybe Notre Dame). The GOR is unbreakable. And you are never going to convince BC, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Wake and anyone not with an invite in hand at that very moment among VT, UVa, L'ville, Duke to dissolve for the sake of UNC, Miami, Clemson and FSU. Not going to happen. ESPN would have to agree to pay the leftovers $40M per year each (on an escalator) for a very long time, as well as those schools forking over $400M each.

That's like two additional SEC contracts for ESPN with no additional broadcast slots filled and likely not much revenue enhancement. Why would they do that when they were not giving anything extra to get Texas and Oklahoma, who are more valuable properties, into the SEC any earlier than the expiration of the Big 12 GOR?

Not going to happen. Everyone has to wait.

And yes I think the SEC will get the four top ACC properties.

ESPN and the SEC can't help Oklahoma and Texas buy out early. It would merely add fuel to tortuous interference claims. What ESPN can do is to buy the B12 rights and exert some influence that way via a six year contract slightly above value.

Good points.

Those referencing OU and UT as a benchmark for GOR being prohibitive have only a cursory grasp on this imo

I'm not using UT/OU as a benchmark (perhaps others are). It's the capital for all involved that will otherwise be left on the table if the ACC (in present form) drags out to an ugly termination point of the contract in '36. The top ACC programs will just play NIL-ball for a decade and make the most of the lighter competition and rack up W's...the bottom programs will cling to life support. They will have missed the chance to recover with schools like UCF/USF/Cincy/WVU/etc and build something healthy and new. Those schools - in the meantime - will have spent that time building and improving elsewhere with new rivalries.

It will be very interesting to see how a breakaway under the CFP coupled with a new broader playoff increases the pressure into a P2, or P3 (which I still believe will be more likely for control of damages while building the P2 networks might like).

(08-17-2022 04:54 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  In part, it does depend on the president. The president who stuck FSU with the 20 year GOR was real dismissive of the SEC and Big 12.

I don't think that's true at all.

He said things about the Big 12 in board meetings. FSU bloggers were at the meetings. The SEC stuff I believe was other people quoting him.

(08-17-2022 08:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 04:54 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  In part, it does depend on the president. The president who stuck FSU with the 20 year GOR was real dismissive of the SEC and Big 12.

I don't think that's true at all.

He said things about the Big 12 in board meetings. FSU bloggers were at the meetings. The SEC stuff I believe was other people quoting him.

I won't speak for FSU Leadership at the time...but I was passionately against the B12. There were lots of rumors flying around about FSU/Clemson. For me it was either a (naive) improved ACC or B1G/SEC or bust. B12 was a non-starter. FSU would have been on an island in a non-P2 conference. And an unstable one at that. There were some FSU fans who were passionate about getting out of the ACC at the time though...and the B12 woulda been fine with that crowd. The message boards were on fire.

(08-17-2022 07:47 AM)swardy76 Wrote:  There were lots of grumblings when FSU was paired with Syracuse in the new ACC schedule. How would fans feel about regular November games in the deep mid-west?

Nebraska struggled after losing its traditional rivals. FSU would be faced with nine conference games and some difficult choices on who to play in Florida. But I guess they could renew the Maryland rivalry.

I wouldn't like seeing a bunch of Midwestern opponents on FSU's schedule year in and year out, not at all. But the money and the high profile games would be far too good to pass up if the alternative is languishing in the ACC.

What I HOPE Florida State would do with a B1G invitation is graciously thank them, express our respect for the B1G and promise a prompt answer. Then immediately call Sankey and tell him we're B1G bound unless the SEC has a spot for us, which hopefully they would and we could politely decline the B1G offer.

(08-17-2022 08:21 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 07:47 AM)swardy76 Wrote:  There were lots of grumblings when FSU was paired with Syracuse in the new ACC schedule. How would fans feel about regular November games in the deep mid-west?

Nebraska struggled after losing its traditional rivals. FSU would be faced with nine conference games and some difficult choices on who to play in Florida. But I guess they could renew the Maryland rivalry.

I wouldn't like seeing a bunch of Midwestern opponents on FSU's schedule year in and year out, not at all. But the money and the high profile games would be far too good to pass up if the alternative is languishing in the ACC.

What I HOPE Florida State would do with a B1G invitation is graciously thank them, express our respect for the B1G and promise a prompt answer. Then immediately call Sankey and tell him we're B1G bound unless the SEC has a spot for us, which hopefully they would and we could politely decline the B1G offer.

I live in the heart of B1G country (well, I guess not anymore if you count USCLA) so I can't go wrong either way. SEC is the obvious choice but B1G is a very close second, especially if I had confidence that Doak would be regularly sold out either way.

(08-17-2022 08:32 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 08:21 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 07:47 AM)swardy76 Wrote:  There were lots of grumblings when FSU was paired with Syracuse in the new ACC schedule. How would fans feel about regular November games in the deep mid-west?

Nebraska struggled after losing its traditional rivals. FSU would be faced with nine conference games and some difficult choices on who to play in Florida. But I guess they could renew the Maryland rivalry.

I wouldn't like seeing a bunch of Midwestern opponents on FSU's schedule year in and year out, not at all. But the money and the high profile games would be far too good to pass up if the alternative is languishing in the ACC.

What I HOPE Florida State would do with a B1G invitation is graciously thank them, express our respect for the B1G and promise a prompt answer. Then immediately call Sankey and tell him we're B1G bound unless the SEC has a spot for us, which hopefully they would and we could politely decline the B1G offer.

I live in the heart of B1G country (well, I guess not anymore if you count USCLA) so I can't go wrong either way. SEC is the obvious choice but B1G is a very close second, especially if I had confidence that Doak would be regularly sold out either way.

Over the last month I’ve seen “Florida St & Miami to the B1G” slung around and I don’t hate the idea. Take So Cal and Florida! That may be the way to nab Notre Dame and North Carolina. Add in Virginia, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington. That’s 24.

(08-17-2022 08:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 04:54 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  In part, it does depend on the president. The president who stuck FSU with the 20 year GOR was real dismissive of the SEC and Big 12.

I don't think that's true at all.

He said things about the Big 12 in board meetings. FSU bloggers were at the meetings. The SEC stuff I believe was other people quoting him.

Well, far be it from me to suggest that unnamed 'bloggers' might not be the most precise relays of information... but President Barron did say he was watching the exit fee situation with Maryland 'very closely' and he kept in close contact with his counterpart at UF on matters like preeminent status in the university system. It's also Barron who openly set AAU membership as a goal for Florida State and sparked its dramatic rise in academic rankings.

It was apparent to me at the time that the Seminoles under his leadership would have seriously entertained a B1G or SEC invitation had one been extended.

As for the B12, he did once express annoyance at recruiting harassment by B12 partisans, much as PAC officials did again just a couple of weeks ago. His raised eyebrow was nothing compared to the trash talk B12 bloggers were then throwing at the ACC, but he was respectful of the B12 conference itself. He said university leadership welcomed information and would always consider options that bettered Florida State's situation.

B12 partisans do have a way of thumping their chests like a world beaters every time the B12 has just lost bleeding chunks of its membership. No harm in noticing the obvious. Florida State had some naive boosters at the time who needed the full PowerPoint presentation treatment to show them that the B12 really did have nothing to offer ACC member schools that they didn't already have.

(08-17-2022 10:24 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 08:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 04:54 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 12:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  In part, it does depend on the president. The president who stuck FSU with the 20 year GOR was real dismissive of the SEC and Big 12.

I don't think that's true at all.

He said things about the Big 12 in board meetings. FSU bloggers were at the meetings. The SEC stuff I believe was other people quoting him.

Well, far be it from me to suggest that unnamed 'bloggers' might not be the most precise relays of information... but President Barron did say he was watching the exit fee situation with Maryland 'very closely' and he kept in close contact with his counterpart at UF on matters like preeminent status in the university system. It's also Barron who openly set AAU membership as a goal for Florida State and sparked its dramatic rise in academic rankings.

It was apparent to me at the time that the Seminoles under his leadership would have seriously entertained a B1G or SEC invitation had one been extended.

As for the B12, he did once express annoyance at recruiting harassment by B12 partisans, much as PAC officials did again just a couple of weeks ago. His raised eyebrow was nothing compared to the trash talk B12 bloggers were then throwing at the ACC, but he was respectful of the B12 conference itself. He said university leadership welcomed information and would always consider options that bettered Florida State's situation.

B12 partisans do have a way of thumping their chests like a world beaters every time the B12 has just lost bleeding chunks of its membership. No harm in noticing the obvious. Florida State had some naive boosters at the time who needed the full PowerPoint presentation treatment to show them that the B12 really did have nothing to offer ACC member schools that they didn't already have.

The blogger was at the meeting and presenting details of the meeting and the presentations at the meeting. I don't remember now, but he might have streamed some of it on his website. Think it was the Warchant guy. He was more credible than most sports reporters on this matter.

Barron was bad mouthing the Big 12 institutions as beneath him. He had the same obnoxious holier than thou superiority attitude that the Pac 10 schools have had without the academic chops Cal, UW and Stanford have.

If Barron had moved to the Big 12, FSU would be on its way to the SEC now.

And nobody trash talks other conferences worse than ACC partisans.

(08-17-2022 07:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It will be very interesting to see how a breakaway under the CFP coupled with a new broader playoff increases the pressure into a P2, or P3 (which I still believe will be more likely for control of damages while building the P2 networks might like).

Yes, and the speedy arrival of this new structure is the main reason I'm not so sure the ACC stays frozen in place until the 2030s.

I get that the grant of rights exerts strong pressure on ACC schools to stay put. But this isn't your parent's realignment landscape. Some very strong pressures are being exerted elsewhere, too.

(08-17-2022 10:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  If Barron had moved to the Big 12, FSU would be on its way to the SEC now.

Now that's a fun bit of revisionism! The argument no one was making to Florida State's president a decade ago: 'The B12 is a perfect destination because it's the conference most likely to lose members!'


Sorry, no. The pitch was different. The bill of goods being pushed by the message-board set in 2012 was that, with playoffs on the way and only four spots available for five conferences:
1. No ACC school would ever be able to compete again for a national title
2. No ACC champion would ever be able to play again in a major bowl
3. The ACC would never get a conference network
4. The ACC was doomed to be raided like the Big East
5. ACC schools would never match the gazillions Baylor and WV were about to rake in on their Tier 3 content.

Seriously. People said this. And some individuals in the Florida State community fell for it.



The 'bloggers' soon got their feelings hurt, but that's not Barron's fault. Hurt feelings happen when someone smokes a lot of funny cigars at once... and every single cigar explodes.

(08-17-2022 08:21 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  ....
What I HOPE Florida State would do with a B1G invitation is graciously thank them, express our respect for the B1G and promise a prompt answer. Then immediately call Sankey and tell him we're B1G bound unless the SEC has a spot for us, which hopefully they would and we could politely decline the B1G offer.

(08-17-2022 08:32 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  I live in the heart of B1G country (well, I guess not anymore if you count USCLA) so I can't go wrong either way. SEC is the obvious choice but B1G is a very close second, especially if I had confidence that Doak would be regularly sold out either way.

I'm guessing the B1G holds more appeal for Florida State alumni who mainly watch games on TV. If you're among those who live close enough to Tallahassee to attend live games, easy travel is a big plus for the SEC.

That's thinking of things in a vacuum, of course. In real life it's unlikely that the Seminoles would move alone. A B1G with a sizable Atlantic coast annex—some combination of Miami, GT, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Pitt, etc—generates much more excitement for traveling fans, especially when a pay hike goes with it. You'd be adding regular games with Penn State, and that's interesting with an Atlantic combination, too.

(08-17-2022 10:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  And nobody trash talks other conferences worse than ACC partisans.

Oh boo-hoo!!!

The ACC is trashed on this board more than any other conference and apparently invented inviting schools from other conferences despite the unused ability of lame posters to look up history.

(08-18-2022 03:19 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(08-17-2022 08:21 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  ....
What I HOPE Florida State would do with a B1G invitation is graciously thank them, express our respect for the B1G and promise a prompt answer. Then immediately call Sankey and tell him we're B1G bound unless the SEC has a spot for us, which hopefully they would and we could politely decline the B1G offer.

(08-17-2022 08:32 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  I live in the heart of B1G country (well, I guess not anymore if you count USCLA) so I can't go wrong either way. SEC is the obvious choice but B1G is a very close second, especially if I had confidence that Doak would be regularly sold out either way.

I'm guessing the B1G holds more appeal for Florida State alumni who mainly watch games on TV. If you're among those who live close enough to Tallahassee to attend live games, easy travel is a big plus for the SEC.

That's thinking of things in a vacuum, of course. In real life it's unlikely that the Seminoles would move alone. A B1G with a sizable Atlantic coast annex—some combination of Miami, GT, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Pitt, etc—generates much more excitement for traveling fans, especially when a pay hike goes with it. You'd be adding regular games with Penn State, and that's interesting with an Atlantic combination, too.

How can you say that? It’s totally obvious that’s what’s best for the current Big Ten as evidenced by the lone flag in Los Angeles (two schools, same city). They can send their teams out there maybe once a year and treat it like a non-conference game, meanwhile the outpost schools burn fuel like jet setters.

If anything, this last round showcased there is diminishing returns in even programs like Oregon and Washington. So which schools are worth more than them? Numbers don’t support GT, VT, Pitt, I’m not even convinced Virginia moves the needle at this point.

The Big Ten, in typical selfish Big Ten fashion, would love a Florida outpost in addition to their obsession, my Tar Heels. I can see it clear as day, and I want absolutely no part of it. If we’re not in the ACC, I’ll be the first to chant SEC, SEC, SEC and reestablish the rivalry with South Carolina and former foes Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida.

(08-18-2022 06:37 AM)esayem Wrote:  ....
If anything, this last round showcased there is diminishing returns in even programs like Oregon and Washington. So which schools are worth more than them? Numbers don’t support GT, VT, Pitt, I’m not even convinced Virginia moves the needle at this point.

You could be right in supposing that adding the occasional collector's item is the way things will continue to happen. I'm not so sure about that, with a new CFP landscape under construction and 2/3 of the ACC looking forward to free agency and everyone else knowing it. We'll see what happens.

All we know right now is that both the B1G and SEC have hit the pause button. In the B1G's case it was done to negotiate a media contract.

Much depends on what's in the contracts, I'd say.