(05-25-2022 03:08 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

And restrict access to schools to one primary point where everybody and everything that comes and goes can be observed and monitored.

Here's a Three-Word Policy That's Been Effective in Stopping School Shootings

Quote:The border city of Uvalde, Texas is mourning. Salvador Ramos, 18, shot and killed 19 fourth-grade students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School. They were all in one classroom. It’s a heinous crime. It’s a Sandy Hook-like situation. Ramos shot his grandmother before this rampage. The grandmother is said to have survived. We’re going to hear an earful about gun control, so-called assault weapons bans, and other anti-gun talking points from Democrats. And the result will always be the same—Americans will not torch their rights to appease a political class lusting for more power and control, especially after the COVID lockdown fiasco. NONE of the COVID protocols were effective. The lockdowns did next to nothing to reduce the mortality rate. The one policy that has been effective is having police officers at schools.

School resource officers is not a new policy. Sandy Hook adopted it after Adam Lanza’s equally evil shooting in Newtown back in 2012. It’s backed by the National Rifle Association. It has a proven track record. For years, we’ve had stories of these brave officers stopping would-be school shooters. Does it stop all of them? No, some manage to pop off a few shots but the level of carnage is not catastrophic when SROs are present.

In 2018, a school shooting in Ocala, Florida was limited to only one student being injured thanks to a school resource officer (via CBS News):

A Florida school resource officer is being praised for quickly confronting the gunman during a shooting at a high school that injured one student ... The shooting happened … at Forest High School in Ocala, which was put on lockdown. The wounded student, a 17-year-old boy, was taken to a local hospital for treatment of a non-life threatening injury to his ankle.

The suspect,19-year-old Sky Bouche, was quickly taken into custody by the school resource officer, Marion County Sheriff's Deputy James Long, officials said.

Marion County Sheriff Billy Woods said Long heard a loud bang about 8:39 a.m. and immediately rushed to the source of the sound. Within minutes, at about 8:42 a.m., Long reached the shooting scene and the shooter was in custody, officials said…

At Dixon High School in Illinois, also in 2018, a school resource officer was able to shoot a gunman before anyone else was harmed (via NYT):

A school shooting may have been narrowly averted … — thanks in part to the quick response of a school resource officer, who shot a gunman before anyone else was harmed.

The authorities in Dixon, Ill., said the officer, Mark Dallas, was on duty at Dixon High School near a gymnasium, where students were gathered for a graduation rehearsal, when he heard gunshots at 8:06 a.m. He confronted the gunman, chased him out of the school and pursued him down a nearby street, the police said.

The gunman, a student at the school identified as Matthew A. Milby, 19, of Dixon, shot at the officer but missed, the police said. Mr. Dallas returned fire and struck Mr. Milby, who was taken to a hospital for non-life-threatening injuries.

Another would-be shooter in Maryland was stopped by a school resource officer. This also occurred in 2018 (via Baltimore Sun):

As school systems across the country debate arming staff, state and local officials praised the actions of the school resource officer who fired at a gunman at Great Mills High School.

“He responded exactly as we train our personnel to respond," said St. Mary’s County Sheriff Tim Cameron of school resource officer Deputy First Class Blaine

Gaskill. Police said Austin Rollins, 17, shot at two other students who were injured. Gaskill fired at Rollins, who almost simultaneously fired his handgun, Cameron said. Investigators are still trying to determine which bullets struck which individuals.

Rollins died at a hospital.

Gaskill was not injured during the incident, which unfolded in less than a minute.

In 2021, a school resource officer stopped a shooting at Hinkley High School, keeping the suspects in the parking lot. Three teenagers were injured in the attack, but no fatalities (via 9News):

The Aurora Police Department (APD) said three suspects have been arrested in connection to a shooting in the Hinkley High School parking lot that left three teenagers injured…

APD said in a release that dispatchers began taking 911 calls about a shooting at Hinkley High School just after noon Friday. An APD school resource officer and an Aurora Public Schools (APS) security officer were already there and were the first to respond, according to police.

Officers found a teenager in the parking lot who had been shot, police said, and they were taken to the hospital. The other two teenagers who were shot got themselves to hospitals soon after that, according to APD. Chief Vanessa Wilson said in a media briefing that their injuries did not appear to be life-threatening.

In 2013, at Arapahoe High School in Centennial, Colorado, Karl Pierson tried to commit a mass casualty event. It only lasted 80 seconds after he was confronted by a school resource officer. Tragically, he was able to kill one student. Pierson intended to kill as many as possible according to authorities at the time. In 2022, officers present in this school district appear to be not as frequent due to staffing issues.

It's a deterrent. It works. These SROs either stop shooters before they’re able to open fire or severely restrict an attacker’s ability to commit a mass casualty event. There is a years-long track record of police stopping would-be school shooters within seconds of trouble. Marjory Stoneman Douglas is a different situation since the school officer assigned did nothing, which led to his firing. Every other officer in this position has responded and neutralized the threat.

Also, there are other issues like authorities not enforcing the law prior to known troubled persons when it comes to firearms purchases but that's a tale for another time.

In all, three words that describe a good policy to keep our schools and students safe from would-be killers: school resource officers.

(05-25-2022 02:54 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I love all these conservatives wanting the federal government to become more involved. You know, create more bureaucratic gibberish to spend billions of dollars on situations that happen less than one time a year.

I think it's more of... if we've got to spend $40B why aren't we spending it here? And that goes for all kinds of stupid crap we spend money on for other countries.

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(05-25-2022 02:54 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I love all these conservatives wanting the federal government to become more involved. You know, create more bureaucratic gibberish to spend billions of dollars on situations that happen less than one time a year.

Did I miss something? I don't recall anybody in this thread calling for the creation of yet another agency or cabinet position. There are far too many right now and if we can spend money on the mating habits of the African midget transgender toad then we can find one of the many agencies already here to funnel that $$ for school security to. Maybe the Department of Education.

We already have a government which is far too big and unwieldy. It wasn't, for the most part, the right that wanted that. I was not really pleased when GW created the Department of Homeland Security for just that reason. We already had agencies where those functions could reside.

Nice try, Saluki but no dice. Nobody on the right is asking for bigger government that I know of.

Just as a thought experiment, search for duplicate Federal Programs and then figure out how much $$ we waste because of that.

Guns Aren’t Radically Deadlier Than They Were 50 Years Ago, But Our Sick Culture Is

Quote:After another school shooting — this one at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, leaving at least 21 victims dead — politicians like President Joe Biden are already capitalizing on the tragedy to push their anti-gun agenda. They’ll tell you that the vague category of “assault weapons” has no place in American citizens’ hands, or seize the moment to vilify “the semiautomatic weapons that terrorize us” (as a New York Times essay put it). But these firearms have been accessible for decades — far before school shootings were such an unfortunately common occurrence.

Various versions of the AR-15 are some of the popular firearms most relentlessly targeted by anti-gun lobbyists, with their semiautomatic capability (i.e., the ability to fire multiple rounds without manual reloading, while still requiring the pull of a trigger) blamed for the deadliness of many recent shootings. But Colt sold an AR-15 SP1 Sporter Rifle starting in 1964, 58 years ago.

As for semiautomatic handguns, one of the most iconic models dates back to 1911. (The Colt M1911 held fewer rounds than many of today’s handguns, but the 13-round Browning Hi-Power came on the market in 1935, and the 16-round Beretta Model 92 appeared in 1976.) The firearms that civilians have access to today are not significantly deadlier than the ones that were manufactured for civilian use over half a century ago. Furthermore, the number of Americans who possess a gun in their homes has overall been lower in the last 30 years than it was from the 1960s to the 1990s.

Yet we’ve seen a heartbreaking rise over the past several years in incidents where evil, disturbed cowards choose to target schools full of vulnerable children. Before Uvalde, there were Santa Fe High School and Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in 2018, Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, and Red Lake High School in 2005 — and those are just some of the names you probably already know.

Crimes committed by evil people are nothing new, of course, and schools in particular had experienced shootings and violence before these. In the 19th and 20th centuries, there were records of shooting deaths at schools caused by personal feuds, accidental shootings when guns were thought to be unloaded, arguments gone wrong, or disgruntled students or administrators seeking revenge on authorities.

But until the late 1980s, the concept of a mass shooter walking into a school and arbitrarily targeting people was incredibly rare, if not completely unheard of. In 1988, a 19-year-old shooter fatally shot two 8-year-olds and wounded nine other people at Oakland Elementary School in Greenwood, South Carolina. In the same year, a woman fired on an elementary school classroom in Illinois as part of a bizarre crime spree. In 1989, a gunman killed five children at Cleveland Elementary School in California. And in 1994, a 37-year-old walked into Wickliffe Middle School and killed custodian Peter Christopher.

Other shootings were perpetrated by disgruntled or troubled students, including at Olean High School in New York in 1974; Atlantic Shores Christian School in Virginia in 1988; Lindhurst High School in California in 1992; Bethel Regional High School in Alaska, Heath High School in Kentucky, and Pearl High School in Mississippi in 1997; and Westside Middle School in Arkansas in 1998.

The infamous shooting at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999 shocked the national conscience and launched the concept of school shootings further forward as a growing and tragic problem. Since Columbine, American families have faced unimaginable tragedies at Santa Fe High, Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High, Sandy Hook Elementary, Red Lake High, as well as Santana High School in California in 2001, Rocori High School in Minnesota in 2003, SuccessTech Academy in Ohio in 2007, Chardon High School in Ohio in 2012, Sparks Middle School in Nevada in 2013, Marysville Pilchuck High School in Washington in 2014, Townville Elementary School in South Carolina in 2016, Aztec High School in New Mexico in 2017, Marshall County High School in Kentucky in 2018, Saugus High School in California in 2019, Oxford High School in Michigan in 2021, and countless others.

So if the guns in Americans’ hands and homes haven’t radically changed in the last few years, what has? As The Federalist’s Mark Hemingway noted, we’ve seen “no big advances in firearm lethality compared to what citizens could own decades before we ever had regular mass shootings.”

While humanity has been fallen since Eden, the past 50 years have seen countless indicators of exponential cultural decline, not the least of which have been falling marriage rates and skyrocketing numbers of children who are denied the chance to live with both their mother and father. We’re also seeing a pandemic of mental illness, which the years of mental angst and isolation caused by Covid school closures will certainly only worsen.

Americans are losing interest in the purpose and community that faith and church offer, losing respect for the sanctity of human life, and losing sight of the notion that a higher moral good exists than immediate self-gratification. Instead, we live under a cultural ethic that idolizes the indulgence of selfish desires even up to the point of taking the life of another.

Meanwhile, our politicians and academics pit Americans against each other based on the color of their skin, while the media machine grants notoriety to cowardly killers whose names deserve to be forgotten. Add to that our social media-crazed culture’s obsession with a few seconds of fame at any expense, and it’s clear that the gun market isn’t what’s radically changed. We need to address the rot we’ve sown for our children to grow up in, and no amount of blaming firearms for our culture’s depravity is going to change that.

Don’t Surrender To Do-Somethingism On Guns

Quote:Before we even knew how the killer of 19 children and two adults at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, had obtained his guns, Chris Murphy was engaging in his customary performative emotionalism on the Senate floor, literally begging Republicans to “compromise.”

Compromise on what exactly? Murphy has never once offered a single proposal that would have deterred any of these mass shooters. Literally minutes after his routine, Murphy was asked about the obvious mental illness prevalent among most of these shooters. “Spare me the bullsh-t about mental illness,” the Connecticut senator responded, “ripping” the GOP. “We don’t have any more mental illness than any other country in the world.” That’s how serious he is about compromise.

Whether America is more prone to mental illness or not, these incidents are almost exclusively perpetrated by young men who have exhibited serious anti-social behavior. All of them break a slew of existing laws. All of them have either obtained guns illegally, or legally before having any criminal record. In many, if not most, cases, the shooter is already on the cops’ radar because he has threatened others or written insane, violent manifestos. In a study of mass shootings from 2008 to 2017, the Secret Service found that “100 percent of perpetrators showed concerning behaviors, and in 77 percent of shootings, at least one person – most often a peer – knew about their plan.”

Rather than focusing on these tangible entry points for potentially useful legislation, instead of proposing ideas on better identifying shooters before they act, instead of thinking about how schools could be structurally safer, instead of debating the efficacy of putting more cops in schools — and none of these are panaceas, mind you — Senate Democrats were busy dunking on Republicans for failing to support bills that have absolutely zero to do with mass shootings.

Chuck Schumer planned to introduce H.R. 8, an expanded background check bill, and H.R. 1446, a bill that would close the alleged “Charleston Loophole” (before he realized it wouldn’t be politically expedient.) “Alleged” because Dylann Roof, who murdered nine black churchgoers in Charleston in 2015, got a clean background check, not because of any “loophole,” but because local prosecutors had failed to respond to the FBI’s request for information. It was a case of human error, or negligence. So maybe Democrats should be promoting a “law-enforcement-should-do-its-job” bill. Because all “universal” background checks do is stop friends and families from gifting guns. Straw purchases are already illegal, as Schumer, Pelosi, and Murphy already know. And passing expanded background checks after a school shooting is tantamount to demanding stricter drivers tests after a hit and run.

Democrats, obsessed with largely irrelevant issues like AR-15s and “universal background checks,” are largely living in the early 1990s. Joe Biden’s address to the nation consisted of a litany of hackneyed talking points he’s been regurgitating for decades now — including that transcendently stupid joke about deer in Kevlar. “As a nation, we have to ask, when in God’s name are we going to stand up to the gun lobby?” Biden said — again.

Democrats love to hammer the strawman “gun lobby” because they don’t want to openly attack tens of millions of gun owners. The NRA, whose power has significantly diminished over the past decades, could disappear tomorrow and it wouldn’t alter gun policy one bit. Either another organization would emerge — probably a more rigid one — or gun owners and Second Amendment advocates (we’re in the midst of the largest expansion of gun ownership in American history) would continue voting for politicians who oppose restrictions aimed at peaceful gun ownership.

Meanwhile, Republicans will have to deal with a barrage of preposterous smears. “There is no such thing as being ‘pro-life’ while supporting laws that let children be shot in their schools, elders in grocery stores, worshippers in their houses of faith, survivors by abusers, or anyone in a crowded place,” Democrat Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted.

This was indicative of the sort of demented accusation thrown around these days. One suspects liberals who take to the internet to accuse Republicans of abetting infanticide aren’t really interested in compromise. Unlike Ocasio-Cortez, who champions laws that empower people to terminate the lives of the viable unborn, I don’t know of a single Republican who supports the gunning down of elementary school children.

Indeed, law-abiding Americans have no obligation to take ownership of a madman’s actions. Nor is there any reason for them to surrender their right to self-defense so that Chris Murphy, who, evidenced in many of his comments, is only interested in incrementally limiting gun ownership. That’s his right, of course. He should try and repeal the Second Amendment. Until then, however, Democrats interested in genuine compromise may want to offer realistic, productive, and germane ideas, rather than using another horrific tragedy to dunk on their political opponents.

Instead of seriously addressing the very obvious mental health crisis in this country the solution is more guns and attempting to turn schools into armed fortresses. I don't disagree in regards to the insane amount we are spending to arm Ukraine (or Israel or Saudi Arabia or any number of other places), but I think there are like 120 guns per 100 people in this country currently, and weren't there multiple officers at this school who didn't stop anything? I think it's a fair argument to say that gun control just for the sake of doing gun control wouldn't stop most of these tragedies, but I don't think if we reach 5 guns for every 1 person in this country that will solve this.

There were a school resource officer who confronted the gunman but didn't stop him as he entered and two Customs and Border Patrol officers who confronted him and caused him to drop his bag containing extra ammo outside the school. One of them killed him in the school.

(05-25-2022 02:56 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 02:54 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I love all these conservatives wanting the federal government to become more involved. You know, create more bureaucratic gibberish to spend billions of dollars on situations that happen less than one time a year.

Each side loves their Big Government, just their particular "shade" of Big Government.

Exactly

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(05-25-2022 03:08 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Unsure where this comes from. There is an armed officer in every Florida public school.

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School security isn't the problem. This isn't a political problem that can be solved by winning a political issue or writing laws that criminalize good people or turn schools into prisons. This is a societal-cultural problem without a single solution. Mental health is a huge part of it, but I'm guessing there are likely some more underlying issues that are causing the mental health crisis. The stigma around mental health has always been here. Guns and weapons have always been here. Lack of school security and armed officers roaming the halls has always been here. So, what's new?

(05-25-2022 04:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 03:08 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

And restrict access to schools to one primary point where everybody and everything that comes and goes can be observed and monitored.

We could easily turn schools into prisons and end all of this end everyone can spend the 2 hours per day working through all the protocols. I'm sure mental health will greatly improve.

(05-26-2022 08:13 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 04:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 03:08 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

And restrict access to schools to one primary point where everybody and everything that comes and goes can be observed and monitored.

We could easily turn schools into prisons and end all of this end everyone can spend the 2 hours per day working through all the protocols. I'm sure mental health will greatly improve.

my kids hate their school simply because it feels like a prison. I have to agree.

(05-26-2022 08:13 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 04:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 03:08 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

And restrict access to schools to one primary point where everybody and everything that comes and goes can be observed and monitored.

We could easily turn schools into prisons and end all of this end everyone can spend the 2 hours per day working through all the protocols. I'm sure mental health will greatly improve.

Why does this school = prison rhetoric pop up any time that access controls are mentioned?

What about banks? They have extreme access controls to all sensitive areas. How about we make schools look like banks?

Or airports? What are your chances of getting to an airport gate without an ID check and a metal screening? How about we make schools like airports?

Bottom line, if you want "gun free zones," you cannot accomplish that without access controls.

(05-26-2022 07:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  School security isn't the problem. This isn't a political problem that can be solved by winning a political issue or writing laws that criminalize good people or turn schools into prisons. This is a societal-cultural problem without a single solution. Mental health is a huge part of it, but I'm guessing there are likely some more underlying issues that are causing the mental health crisis. The stigma around mental health has always been here. Guns and weapons have always been here. Lack of school security and armed officers roaming the halls has always been here. So, what's new?

You been in a coma the past 2 years?

The U.S. is 3rd in murders throughout the world.

If you remove

1) Chicago
2) Detroit
3) Washington D.C.
4) St. Louis
5) New Orleans

The U.S. is then 189th out of 193 countries in the world.

BTW, all 5 cities have STRICT gun laws, run by Democrats.

(05-26-2022 01:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 08:13 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 04:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-25-2022 03:08 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

And restrict access to schools to one primary point where everybody and everything that comes and goes can be observed and monitored.

We could easily turn schools into prisons and end all of this end everyone can spend the 2 hours per day working through all the protocols. I'm sure mental health will greatly improve.

Why does this school = prison rhetoric pop up any time that access controls are mentioned?

What about banks? They have extreme access controls to all sensitive areas. How about we make schools look like banks?

Or airports? What are your chances of getting to an airport gate without an ID check and a metal screening? How about we make schools like airports?

Bottom line, if you want "gun free zones," you cannot accomplish that without access controls.

It doesn't address the root of the problem. There were no access controls 40 years ago and there were no shootings. Also most schools have at least 500 kids and you can't restrict exits. A single point of entry doesn't prevent someone from coming in an exit, either by someone letting them in or by piggybacking. Banks are small and they are robbed because people need money. Airport security is hell and I'd just as soon take my chances of getting shot than have to go through it at 8AM everyday with a line of 500+.

I have 3 kids and much prefer these measures don't get enacted. I'd much rather the money be spent rebuilding the asylums and hiring teachers that aren't headcases themselves.

(05-26-2022 02:11 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 07:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  School security isn't the problem. This isn't a political problem that can be solved by winning a political issue or writing laws that criminalize good people or turn schools into prisons. This is a societal-cultural problem without a single solution. Mental health is a huge part of it, but I'm guessing there are likely some more underlying issues that are causing the mental health crisis. The stigma around mental health has always been here. Guns and weapons have always been here. Lack of school security and armed officers roaming the halls has always been here. So, what's new?

You been in a coma the past 2 years?

Easy to blame the last 2 years until you realize this schit started with Columbine which was about 25 years ago. Lockdowns and pandemic theater certainly didn't help mental health but it wasn't exactly trending in the right direction anyway. What's new since the mid-late 90s?

(05-26-2022 03:41 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Easy to blame the last 2 years until you realize this schit started with Columbine which was about 25 years ago. Lockdowns and pandemic theater certainly didn't help mental health but it wasn't exactly trending in the right direction anyway. What's new since the mid-late 90s?

The pandemic measures have had the biggest impact of any situation I can think of - maybe in U.S. history. You can shrug it off all you want. Just look at U.S. youth suicide rates skyrocketing since the covid measures were instituted and then tell me with a straight face that it is not a major factor.

No need to remind me of Columbine as I live here. In that case, at least one of the boys was on a strong anti-depressant that has been a common factor in violent episodes in many different locations. Not sure, can't remember if both were. Not saying definitively that it was the cause or a cause because we don't know.

There are all kinds of potential factors being floated as to why these events keep happening. Violent video games being one of them and they weren't as sophisticated then as they are now. Social media issues are another. Our kids today can not cope well with interpersonal relationships because they have their faces plastered to their phones all day, texting.

Media coverage and all the attention paid to school shooters may create the conditions for copycat violence. We often see a cluster of school shootings happening within a short span of several weeks. Why is that?

I don't have the answers. I don't know of anybody that does. I'm sure that someone somewhere is studying these and trying to come up with the answers. It is possible that we may never know.

(05-26-2022 07:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  School security isn't the problem. This isn't a political problem that can be solved by winning a political issue or writing laws that criminalize good people or turn schools into prisons. This is a societal-cultural problem without a single solution. Mental health is a huge part of it, but I'm guessing there are likely some more underlying issues that are causing the mental health crisis. The stigma around mental health has always been here. Guns and weapons have always been here. Lack of school security and armed officers roaming the halls has always been here. So, what's new?

100% agree

Most problems in this county are created because BOTH SIDES...Republicans and Democrats are team over country. One a lot worse than the other but at the top levels they both are the same.

But even with that politicians or money or both will not stop the "next time". But both sides will be there to play their games when it happens