I'm curious is Eastern Kentucky ready for FBS? I know they used to have a rivalry with Western Kentucky awhile back in FCS. That would get the C-USA to 10 tell they can decide on a all sports #11 and 12. I think at least it gets you divisions and 18 games in basketball.

CUSA nearly passed away but it has survived to play another day thanks in part to the MAC's inaction. When it looked very much like CUSA would be down to 3, Liberty, NMSU, Jacksonville St and SHSU signed up. With 7 on board only 1 more was needed so survival with only 3 holdover members was possible. With 5 holdovers it became much easier.

CUSA was able to add 2 FCS schools that have both good football and decent baskiball. Given the circumstances I think the conference did the best it could. The holdovers wanted no part of football independence so they found a way to make it work.

(04-04-2022 12:15 AM)46566 Wrote:  I'm curious is Eastern Kentucky ready for FBS? I know they used to have a rivalry with Western Kentucky awhile back in FCS. That would get the C-USA to 10 tell they can decide on a all sports #11 and 12. I think at least it gets you divisions and 18 games in basketball.

Jury is still out on EKU. When you look at their finances on the Knight Commission, they would need to have a big influx of ticket sales, donations, and sponsorships to get to a competitive level, they are already maxed out on institutional support.

Their performance on the field seems suspect too. No FCS playoff appearances since 2014 and they haven't won a game in the playoffs since 1994.

I wish they were a no brainer move up because then we could potentially pair with them and join the MAC.

(04-03-2022 02:08 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is zero chance of MTSU going to the MAC. And that cripple any chance WKU has, as they do not deliver the Nashville market without MTSU in tow

"Deliver" is doing a lot of work here.

(04-03-2022 08:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:54 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:52 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:40 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:37 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I agree, CUSA should have tried to go north and fill the FBS gap in the upper Midwest and Dakotas. It was an opportunity to reposition the heart of the conference into an area of the country with some dedicated and growing fan bases and no P5 competition. If CUSA had issued invitations to multiple MVFC schools as a group, and converted the Teaxas and Florida outliers to football-only members as you suggest, the strategy might have worked.

I don't see why any current members would want to do that?

Least of all 2/5 of the schools with a vote that you're talking about sidelining.

UTEP and FIU would both be better off playing non-football sports in regional conferences (which would have welcomed them) than flying their teams all over the country. I think that would have been the easiest part of the deal to sell.

Funny they didn't seem to think so though, huh?

It’s unlikely they were ever in a position to make a choice. The whole scenario is theoretical and I doubt CUSA even considered a wholesale move north or split conference affiliations for the outliers. The conference’s entire rebuilding strategy appears to have been tactical instead of strategic.

It reminds me of how the WAC initially responded to its 2011 existential crisis, by stretching its footprint with distant D1 schools. While the WAC had no other option at the time, that approach proved to be unsustainable and the WAC didn’t regain stability until it fully committed to being a Southwest regional conference and sold its vision to a combination of hungry D2 move-ups in Arizona, SoCal and Utah and ambitious Southland members in Texas. CUSA had an opportunity to sell a similar vision of a geographically sensible Central time zone focused FBS conference to the cream of the MVFC, but apparently that concept never emerged or was not seriously pursued if it did.

I agree strongly with this sentiment. Those at the bottom of the realignment food chain tend to react instead of evaluate.

Much of that is justifiable due to NCAA minimums and not wanting to fall below, but NMSU and UTEP playing their non football sports in the WAC while having a guaranteed football home in CUSA to me is a win-win-win for both the western duo, the non western schools and the conference as a whole. The conference is able to attract more geographically friendly schools without having to combat travel costs issue and "having to send my volleyball team to El Paso every year"

(04-04-2022 08:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 08:08 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:54 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:52 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(04-03-2022 06:40 PM)inutech Wrote:  I don't see why any current members would want to do that?

Least of all 2/5 of the schools with a vote that you're talking about sidelining.

UTEP and FIU would both be better off playing non-football sports in regional conferences (which would have welcomed them) than flying their teams all over the country. I think that would have been the easiest part of the deal to sell.

Funny they didn't seem to think so though, huh?

It’s unlikely they were ever in a position to make a choice. The whole scenario is theoretical and I doubt CUSA even considered a wholesale move north or split conference affiliations for the outliers. The conference’s entire rebuilding strategy appears to have been tactical instead of strategic.

It reminds me of how the WAC initially responded to its 2011 existential crisis, by stretching its footprint with distant D1 schools. While the WAC had no other option at the time, that approach proved to be unsustainable and the WAC didn’t regain stability until it fully committed to being a Southwest regional conference and sold its vision to a combination of hungry D2 move-ups in Arizona, SoCal and Utah and ambitious Southland members in Texas. CUSA had an opportunity to sell a similar vision of a geographically sensible Central time zone focused FBS conference to the cream of the MVFC, but apparently that concept never emerged or was not seriously pursued if it did.

I agree strongly with this sentiment. Those at the bottom of the realignment food chain tend to react instead of evaluate.

Much of that is justifiable due to NCAA minimums and not wanting to fall below, but NMSU and UTEP playing their non football sports in the WAC while having a guaranteed football home in CUSA to me is a win-win-win for both the western duo, the non western schools and the conference as a whole. The conference is able to attract more geographically friendly schools without having to combat travel costs issue and "having to send my volleyball team to El Paso every year"

See, I think it's lose-lose-lose (although my concern here is mostly for that middle "non western schools" part).

CUSA is stuck with two poor football programs while being two full members down. If you weren't going to have UTEP and NMSU, you could replace their football contributions with FCS schools in the central time zone without a huge dropoff. But without at least keeping them for football, UTEP wouldn't have any interest in leaving for a weaker (if maybe closer) conference for other sports (if then).

NMSU had a home for their other sports and still opted to join CUSA. I'm sure they weren't given the option for football only (rightly) but I think they'd have moved as a full member even if they had the choice. CUSA needed warm bodies at the time, but part of the sell for NMSU was their basketball. That's partly what makes their football team worth putting up with (that and the need for warm bodies, and the location next to UTEP).

(04-04-2022 09:20 AM)inutech Wrote:  CUSA is stuck with two poor football programs while being two full members down. If you weren't going to have UTEP and NMSU, you could replace their football contributions with FCS schools in the central time zone without a huge dropoff. But without at least keeping them for football, UTEP wouldn't have any interest in leaving for a weaker (if maybe closer) conference for other sports (if then).

NMSU had a home for their other sports and still opted to join CUSA. I'm sure they weren't given the option for football only (rightly) but I think they'd have moved as a full member even if they had the choice. CUSA needed warm bodies at the time, but part of the sell for NMSU was their basketball. That's partly what makes their football team worth putting up with (that and the need for warm bodies, and the location next to UTEP).

I am of the thought it would be easier to recruit Central Time FCS upgrades if they didnt "have to send their volleyball team to El Paso"

Ideally UTEP and NMSU would be in the MWC. But since that is not going to happen anytime soon and you cannot just kick a member out, work with them to provide a stable football home as long as they want for the big revenue sport. This allows everyone to save money on travel for sports that do not generate that much revenue, while protecting the distant schools from football independence.

(04-04-2022 09:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:20 AM)inutech Wrote:  CUSA is stuck with two poor football programs while being two full members down. If you weren't going to have UTEP and NMSU, you could replace their football contributions with FCS schools in the central time zone without a huge dropoff. But without at least keeping them for football, UTEP wouldn't have any interest in leaving for a weaker (if maybe closer) conference for other sports (if then).

NMSU had a home for their other sports and still opted to join CUSA. I'm sure they weren't given the option for football only (rightly) but I think they'd have moved as a full member even if they had the choice. CUSA needed warm bodies at the time, but part of the sell for NMSU was their basketball. That's partly what makes their football team worth putting up with (that and the need for warm bodies, and the location next to UTEP).

I am of the thought it would be easier to recruit Central Time FCS upgrades if they didnt "have to send their volleyball team to El Paso"

Ideally UTEP and NMSU would be in the MWC. But since that is not going to happen anytime soon and you cannot just kick a member out, work with them to provide a stable football home as long as they want for the big revenue sport. This allows everyone to save money on travel for sports that do not generate that much revenue, while protecting the distant schools from football independence.

UTEP and NMSU contribute more in basketball and roughly the same as any central time zone FCS schools. You don't gain anything by keeping their football and losing their basketball (other than the trips out there, which isn't nothing, I understand that point).

I'm also not interested in recruiting central time zone upgrades from fcs right now, so I'm not too worried about where they send their volleyball teams (some of the ones that are suggested all the time are already in far-flung leagues at the FCS level, so it's not that much of a concern for them anyway).

(04-04-2022 10:06 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:20 AM)inutech Wrote:  CUSA is stuck with two poor football programs while being two full members down. If you weren't going to have UTEP and NMSU, you could replace their football contributions with FCS schools in the central time zone without a huge dropoff. But without at least keeping them for football, UTEP wouldn't have any interest in leaving for a weaker (if maybe closer) conference for other sports (if then).

NMSU had a home for their other sports and still opted to join CUSA. I'm sure they weren't given the option for football only (rightly) but I think they'd have moved as a full member even if they had the choice. CUSA needed warm bodies at the time, but part of the sell for NMSU was their basketball. That's partly what makes their football team worth putting up with (that and the need for warm bodies, and the location next to UTEP).

I am of the thought it would be easier to recruit Central Time FCS upgrades if they didnt "have to send their volleyball team to El Paso"

Ideally UTEP and NMSU would be in the MWC. But since that is not going to happen anytime soon and you cannot just kick a member out, work with them to provide a stable football home as long as they want for the big revenue sport. This allows everyone to save money on travel for sports that do not generate that much revenue, while protecting the distant schools from football independence.

UTEP and NMSU contribute more in basketball and roughly the same as any central time zone FCS schools. You don't gain anything by keeping their football and losing their basketball (other than the trips out there, which isn't nothing, I understand that point).

I'm also not interested in recruiting central time zone upgrades from fcs right now, so I'm not too worried about where they send their volleyball teams (some of the ones that are suggested all the time are already in far-flung leagues at the FCS level, so it's not that much of a concern for them anyway).

100% UTEP and NMSU are strong baskebtall members

But that doesn't change the fact travel still sucks and might scare off potential FCS upgrades who would be a good fit.

Would losing UTEP or NMSU drastically change the number of bids CUSA gets? No I don't think so

(04-04-2022 10:10 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:06 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:20 AM)inutech Wrote:  CUSA is stuck with two poor football programs while being two full members down. If you weren't going to have UTEP and NMSU, you could replace their football contributions with FCS schools in the central time zone without a huge dropoff. But without at least keeping them for football, UTEP wouldn't have any interest in leaving for a weaker (if maybe closer) conference for other sports (if then).

NMSU had a home for their other sports and still opted to join CUSA. I'm sure they weren't given the option for football only (rightly) but I think they'd have moved as a full member even if they had the choice. CUSA needed warm bodies at the time, but part of the sell for NMSU was their basketball. That's partly what makes their football team worth putting up with (that and the need for warm bodies, and the location next to UTEP).

I am of the thought it would be easier to recruit Central Time FCS upgrades if they didnt "have to send their volleyball team to El Paso"

Ideally UTEP and NMSU would be in the MWC. But since that is not going to happen anytime soon and you cannot just kick a member out, work with them to provide a stable football home as long as they want for the big revenue sport. This allows everyone to save money on travel for sports that do not generate that much revenue, while protecting the distant schools from football independence.

UTEP and NMSU contribute more in basketball and roughly the same as any central time zone FCS schools. You don't gain anything by keeping their football and losing their basketball (other than the trips out there, which isn't nothing, I understand that point).

I'm also not interested in recruiting central time zone upgrades from fcs right now, so I'm not too worried about where they send their volleyball teams (some of the ones that are suggested all the time are already in far-flung leagues at the FCS level, so it's not that much of a concern for them anyway).

100% UTEP and NMSU are strong baskebtall members

But that doesn't change the fact travel still sucks and might scare off potential FCS upgrades who would be a good fit.

Would losing UTEP or NMSU drastically change the number of bids CUSA gets? No I don't think so

If you're so skeered of plane flights to El Paso (and then bus to Las Cruces), you're not ready for FBS. (Once you're in FBS, those El Paso trips are a pain-in-the-butt you'll strive mightily to avoid.)

(04-04-2022 10:10 AM)solohawks Wrote:  might scare off potential FCS upgrades who would be a good fit.

Right now (IMHO) that's a feature, not a bug.

(04-04-2022 10:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:10 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:06 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 09:20 AM)inutech Wrote:  CUSA is stuck with two poor football programs while being two full members down. If you weren't going to have UTEP and NMSU, you could replace their football contributions with FCS schools in the central time zone without a huge dropoff. But without at least keeping them for football, UTEP wouldn't have any interest in leaving for a weaker (if maybe closer) conference for other sports (if then).

NMSU had a home for their other sports and still opted to join CUSA. I'm sure they weren't given the option for football only (rightly) but I think they'd have moved as a full member even if they had the choice. CUSA needed warm bodies at the time, but part of the sell for NMSU was their basketball. That's partly what makes their football team worth putting up with (that and the need for warm bodies, and the location next to UTEP).

I am of the thought it would be easier to recruit Central Time FCS upgrades if they didnt "have to send their volleyball team to El Paso"

Ideally UTEP and NMSU would be in the MWC. But since that is not going to happen anytime soon and you cannot just kick a member out, work with them to provide a stable football home as long as they want for the big revenue sport. This allows everyone to save money on travel for sports that do not generate that much revenue, while protecting the distant schools from football independence.

UTEP and NMSU contribute more in basketball and roughly the same as any central time zone FCS schools. You don't gain anything by keeping their football and losing their basketball (other than the trips out there, which isn't nothing, I understand that point).

I'm also not interested in recruiting central time zone upgrades from fcs right now, so I'm not too worried about where they send their volleyball teams (some of the ones that are suggested all the time are already in far-flung leagues at the FCS level, so it's not that much of a concern for them anyway).

100% UTEP and NMSU are strong baskebtall members

But that doesn't change the fact travel still sucks and might scare off potential FCS upgrades who would be a good fit.

Would losing UTEP or NMSU drastically change the number of bids CUSA gets? No I don't think so

If you're so skeered of plane flights to El Paso (and then bus to Las Cruces), you're not ready for FBS. (Once you're in FBS, those El Paso trips are a pain-in-the-butt you'll strive mightily to avoid.)

That pain in the butt at least pays off with 2 conference games for one trip for non-football sports. It actually might be more expensive to travel to Liberty, La Tech, SHSU and Jacksonville State for several schools.

Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

(04-04-2022 10:49 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

It's not the extra time in the air, it's the extra connection at DFW. And for the zero-revenue, only-on-the-books-to-stay Division I / FBS sports, schools prefer the option of dumping the teams on 8 hour bus rides if they can.

Looking at the scoreboard, you just saw Marshall and ODU bellyache for a decade about the far-flung 14-school Conference USA, 2013-21 edition. And they went and joined a 14 school Sun Belt. There's a lot of complaining about the commissioner, but there always is. Biggest change? No Mountain time zone, no El Paso.

(04-04-2022 11:06 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:49 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

It's not the extra time in the air, it's the extra connection at DFW. And for the zero-revenue, only-on-the-books-to-stay Division I / FBS sports, schools prefer the option of dumping the teams on 8 hour bus rides if they can.

Looking at the scoreboard, you just saw Marshall and ODU bellyache for a decade about the far-flung 14-school Conference USA, 2013-21 edition. And they went and joined a 14 school Sun Belt. There's a lot of complaining about the commissioner, but there always is. Biggest change? No Mountain time zone, no El Paso.

Conferences thrive when there is
1. A solid geographic footprint of cohesive, likeminded schools
OR
2. Enough TV money that everyone can ignore travel costs

The SEC, PAC, Big 10, and ACC by and large have both

The Big 12 and the AAC have #2

The MAC, MWC, and Sun Belt have #1

CUSA doesn't have either and thus will struggle to thrive

(04-04-2022 11:06 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:49 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

It's not the extra time in the air, it's the extra connection at DFW. And for the zero-revenue, only-on-the-books-to-stay Division I / FBS sports, schools prefer the option of dumping the teams on 8 hour bus rides if they can.

Looking at the scoreboard, you just saw Marshall and ODU bellyache for a decade about the far-flung 14-school Conference USA, 2013-21 edition. And they went and joined a 14 school Sun Belt. There's a lot of complaining about the commissioner, but there always is. Biggest change? No Mountain time zone, no El Paso.

I’m sorry (actually I’m not) but if that’s a concern for any school, then they have no business being in Division 1. Period.

It’s hard for somebody in the East Coast to understand how big and spread out the West is. It’s just not an El Paso thing. Look at Salt Lake City. Any direction you go, there won’t be any sizable metro area for hours. Ever been on I-8 between Phoenix and San Diego?

BTW, isn’t that connecting flight at DFW pretty much the same as your volleyball team taking a van for an 8-hour trip? What’s the difference between taking a connecting flight from Birmingham (Jax State) to El Paso and Marshall busing their softball team between Huntington, WV and Statesboro, GA (Georgia Southern)? I’d take that plane ride over the bus anytime if I was a college player.

(04-04-2022 11:06 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:49 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

It's not the extra time in the air, it's the extra connection at DFW. And for the zero-revenue, only-on-the-books-to-stay Division I / FBS sports, schools prefer the option of dumping the teams on 8 hour bus rides if they can.

Looking at the scoreboard, you just saw Marshall and ODU bellyache for a decade about the far-flung 14-school Conference USA, 2013-21 edition. And they went and joined a 14 school Sun Belt. There's a lot of complaining about the commissioner, but there always is. Biggest change? No Mountain time zone, no El Paso.

Marshall might have bellyache, but ODU signed up for that. Problem is, the conference didn’t win enough non-conference games to make a 14 team league more digestible.

Cutting out El Paso and having tighter geography does help, especially for non-football sports, but if CUSA were getting multiple NCAA bids and challenging for NY6 spots, ODU and Marshall would have never left.

(04-04-2022 11:12 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 11:06 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:49 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

It's not the extra time in the air, it's the extra connection at DFW. And for the zero-revenue, only-on-the-books-to-stay Division I / FBS sports, schools prefer the option of dumping the teams on 8 hour bus rides if they can.

Looking at the scoreboard, you just saw Marshall and ODU bellyache for a decade about the far-flung 14-school Conference USA, 2013-21 edition. And they went and joined a 14 school Sun Belt. There's a lot of complaining about the commissioner, but there always is. Biggest change? No Mountain time zone, no El Paso.

Conferences thrive when there is
1. A solid geographic footprint of cohesive, likeminded schools
OR
2. Enough TV money that everyone can ignore travel costs

The SEC, PAC, Big 10, and ACC by and large have both

The Big 12 and the AAC have #2

The MAC, MWC, and Sun Belt have #1

CUSA doesn't have either and thus will struggle to thrive

It's all relative.

Does the Big 12 "thrive" compared the SEC? Is the MAC "thriving" compared to the MWC?

Are you saying all the FBS conferences are thriving along and only CUSA is going to struggle?

It's not ideal. But we were left with UTEP and FIU. So you keep the denominator low for a while and use the buy-out/non-conference payout money for travel. You hope basketball pays off with an additional bid (or win) here and there. You bide your time and wait for the next re-shuffle. If you're left behind next time, you look around and see what the best options are to rebuild (and you hope the outliers are the ones that go, if you don't). If you get a lifeline out, you give two years notice (or not - right?) and you move along.

None of that is aided by adding a whole FCS conference full of teams located really far from ALL of the already far-flung remaining 5 schools who had to rebuild this time.

(04-04-2022 11:36 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 11:06 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 10:49 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Are we still in the 1940’s? Ever heard of an invention called the airplane?

I understand if we still had to use the bus or train and I would absolutely agree the trips from Miami to El Paso would be a pain in the butt but what’s an extra 30-60 mins in the air for a 18-23 year old?

The fact is C-USA was not in a position of power to be selective. It was on survival mode and NMSU was willing to take that risk. Sure, the MWC makes sense for both but people often forget how big the West is. Other than Albuquerque, UTEP and NMSU would have to fly to Denver, Salt Lake, San Diego, Las Vegas, San Jose, Reno, Boise and Honolulu. The travel would still be the same regardless of conference affiliation.

It's not the extra time in the air, it's the extra connection at DFW. And for the zero-revenue, only-on-the-books-to-stay Division I / FBS sports, schools prefer the option of dumping the teams on 8 hour bus rides if they can.

Looking at the scoreboard, you just saw Marshall and ODU bellyache for a decade about the far-flung 14-school Conference USA, 2013-21 edition. And they went and joined a 14 school Sun Belt. There's a lot of complaining about the commissioner, but there always is. Biggest change? No Mountain time zone, no El Paso.

Marshall might have bellyache, but ODU signed up for that. Problem is, the conference didn’t win enough non-conference games to make a 14 team league more digestible.

Cutting out El Paso and having tighter geography does help, especially for non-football sports, but if CUSA were getting multiple NCAA bids and challenging for NY6 spots, ODU and Marshall would have never left.

Using El Paso and the Mountain Time zone as a scapegoat was easy to justify their mediocrity in football and basketball. Southern Miss had a good reason since they were a charter member of C-USA and all the teams they used to play against like Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, TCU and Tulane all left them behind so I can understand their point of view. The other two? Like you mentioned, they knew what they were signing up for and I don’t have any empathy for both.

(04-04-2022 11:42 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(04-04-2022 11:12 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Conferences thrive when there is
1. A solid geographic footprint of cohesive, likeminded schools
OR
2. Enough TV money that everyone can ignore travel costs

The SEC, PAC, Big 10, and ACC by and large have both

The Big 12 and the AAC have #2

The MAC, MWC, and Sun Belt have #1

CUSA doesn't have either and thus will struggle to thrive

It's all relative.

Does the Big 12 "thrive" compared the SEC? Is the MAC "thriving" compared to the MWC?

Are you saying all the FBS conferences are thriving along and only CUSA is going to struggle?

It's not ideal. But we were left with UTEP and FIU. So you keep the denominator low for a while and use the buy-out/non-conference payout money for travel. You hope basketball pays off with an additional bid (or win) here and there. You bide your time and wait for the next re-shuffle. If you're left behind next time, you look around and see what the best options are to rebuild (and you hope the outliers are the ones that go, if you don't). If you get a lifeline out, you give two years notice (or not - right?) and you move along.

None of that is aided by adding a whole FCS conference full of teams located really far from ALL of the already far-flung remaining 5 schools who had to rebuild this time.

Its very relative
The Big 12 is not thriving compared to the SEC because they only have the TV money while the SEC has more TV money AND a tighter geographic footprint

But they are thriving compared to the AAC because they have more TV money than the American and their footprint is a bit tighter with the core of the conference being old Big 8 and SWC schools.

CUSA is going to struggle more than the SBC, who is going to struggle more than the Big 12, who is going to struggle more than the SEC

CUSA would be wise to follow the SBC model as the SBC surpassed CUSA by building two tight geographic divisions where schools can find success and stability. They used that success and stability to increase their standing with ESPN and generate more TV money, which should continue their cycle of success and stability.

Its tough to follow the SunBelt model though with such a large geographic footprint.