(12-12-2020 12:50 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 09:48 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 02:08 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Will the US still be on the hook for military/fed government retirement benefits? What about disability, GI Bill money, TA?

yes. once you have those benefits, it doesn't matter where you live. Expats live all around the world for better and lower cost quality of life.

This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

I would say no to that arrangement. Likely there would be 4-5 georgraphic areas to form into their own country. The Northeast, Midwest, Southeast, Southwest & West Coast. I believe I’d move to Oregon.

Like they would have you.

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 09:48 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 02:08 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Will the US still be on the hook for military/fed government retirement benefits? What about disability, GI Bill money, TA?

yes. once you have those benefits, it doesn't matter where you live. Expats live all around the world for better and lower cost quality of life.

This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

No. I woudlnt expect that deal. That said, we contribute a great deal to German defense--so such a deal would not be totally unprecedented.

My guess is Texas would probably not be alone when a split comes. What I would expect is that there would be a complete government split--but there would be a close relationship (probably even closer than we have with England) with respect to mutual defense and economics. I would expect a free trade zone and cooperation on developing weapon systems and force distributions. For instance, the distribution of naval forces might look like the distribution that occurred in Russia when the Soviet Union broke up. Economically---it might look similar to the EU.

(12-12-2020 01:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 09:48 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  yes. once you have those benefits, it doesn't matter where you live. Expats live all around the world for better and lower cost quality of life.

This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

No. I woudlnt expect that deal. That said, we contribute a great deal to German defense--so such a deal would not be totally unprecedented.

My guess is Texas would probably not be alone when a split comes. What I would expect is that there would be a complete government split--but there would be a close relationship (probably even closer than we have with England) with respect to mutual defense and economics. I would expect a free trade zone and cooperation on developing weapon systems and force distributions. For instance, the distribution of naval forces might look like the distribution that occurred in Russia when the Soviet Union broke up. Economically---it might look similar to the EU.

You are right. The blue states are puzzies. The wouldn't do a thing. Bama and LA would join Texas immediately.

Its time. I've had a good life. Sign me up. Let's go.

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 09:48 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 02:08 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Will the US still be on the hook for military/fed government retirement benefits? What about disability, GI Bill money, TA?

yes. once you have those benefits, it doesn't matter where you live. Expats live all around the world for better and lower cost quality of life.

This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

(12-12-2020 01:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 09:48 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  yes. once you have those benefits, it doesn't matter where you live. Expats live all around the world for better and lower cost quality of life.

This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

I’d have to disagree with you there. I’d bet that 75% think the issue is too silly for serious conversation.

(12-12-2020 01:02 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You're absolutely right, Smudge. I've been saying that for a while now. There's no guarantee that after seceding from the US that Texas won't succumb to the whims of the Leftists and we wind up where we left off.

The only thing that is needed is for the Conservatives, i.e., the Republicans come up with the laws that punishes voter fraud to the outmost degree. And that those laws are equal across the board for each state. None of this "I'm changing the rules of the game" like they did in Pennsylvania or allowing mail in voting because it's okay in a certain state.

The most drastic action would be disastrous to the nation but it would mean that we would just become another fascists nation and eliminate the opposing voices starting with people like Soros and finishing with his minions and everyone knows that would never happen in Repubs minds, in Demoncrapped minds they're already talking about it. That would be a major mistake on their part because it could lead to a civil war and no holds barred.

So actually where we go from here is up to the Demoncrapped, whether they settle down or aim for a real civil war.

That's the problem with the SCOTUS not hearing the case about PAs State Court creating election law allowing ballots postmarked past election day to be counted. Leaving what the PA Court did stand sets precedent that bodies other than legislatures can indeed write election law.

(12-12-2020 01:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

I’d have to disagree with you there. I’d bet that 75% think the issue is too silly for serious conversation.

We disagree? Shocker. No, I'd say about 1/2 of the 45% want it for sure, and the other half would be fine with it.

Plus, it's obvious that you don't understand political views so diametrically opposed to your own that they transcend politics and move into lifestyle. A whole lot of people in this country will refuse to live under the socialist ideals now being promulgated by the political party you support, assuming they come to fruition. Which they will if the Dems win the Senate.

(12-12-2020 01:26 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

I’d have to disagree with you there. I’d bet that 75% think the issue is too silly for serious conversation.

We disagree? Shocker. No, I'd say about 1/2 of the 45% want it for sure, and the other half would be fine with it.

Plus, it's obvious that you don't understand political views so diametrically opposed to your own that they transcend politics and move into lifestyle. A whole lot of people in this country will refuse to live under the socialist ideals now being promulgated by the political party you support, assuming they come to fruition. Which they will if the Dems win the Senate.

What are my political views? I’m curious

(12-12-2020 01:02 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You're absolutely right, Smudge. I've been saying that for a while now. There's no guarantee that after seceding from the US that Texas won't succumb to the whims of the Leftists and we wind up where we left off.

The only thing that is needed is for the Conservatives, i.e., the Republicans come up with the laws that punishes voter fraud to the outmost degree. And that those laws are equal across the board for each state. None of this "I'm changing the rules of the game" like they did in Pennsylvania or allowing mail in voting because it's okay in a certain state.

The most drastic action would be disastrous to the nation but it would mean that we would just become another fascists nation and eliminate the opposing voices starting with people like Soros and finishing with his minions and everyone knows that would never happen in Repubs minds, in Demoncrapped minds they're already talking about it. That would be a major mistake on their part because it could lead to a civil war and no holds barred.

So actually where we go from here is up to the Demoncrapped, whether they settle down or aim for a real civil war.

What happened to all the “states rights” conservatives spouted right up until TX tried to tell PA how to hold an election?

You want a nationally controlled vote, fine let’s have a national popular vote for president.

You want to keep the electoral college then you pretty much have to let the states make their own voting laws.

(12-12-2020 01:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:26 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

I’d have to disagree with you there. I’d bet that 75% think the issue is too silly for serious conversation.

We disagree? Shocker. No, I'd say about 1/2 of the 45% want it for sure, and the other half would be fine with it.

Plus, it's obvious that you don't understand political views so diametrically opposed to your own that they transcend politics and move into lifestyle. A whole lot of people in this country will refuse to live under the socialist ideals now being promulgated by the political party you support, assuming they come to fruition. Which they will if the Dems win the Senate.

What are my political views? I’m curious

WGAF? Go read your own posts, and you figure it out.

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

it's pretty clear you don't know much about what you're saying. This isn't your lane, bud. Find something else to occupy your time.

(12-12-2020 03:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:31 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:26 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

I’d have to disagree with you there. I’d bet that 75% think the issue is too silly for serious conversation.

We disagree? Shocker. No, I'd say about 1/2 of the 45% want it for sure, and the other half would be fine with it.

Plus, it's obvious that you don't understand political views so diametrically opposed to your own that they transcend politics and move into lifestyle. A whole lot of people in this country will refuse to live under the socialist ideals now being promulgated by the political party you support, assuming they come to fruition. Which they will if the Dems win the Senate.

What are my political views? I’m curious

WGAF? Go read your own posts, and you figure it out.

You’re the one who brought the subject of my political views up, not me

(12-12-2020 03:33 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

it's pretty clear you don't know much about what you're saying. This isn't your lane, bud. Find something else to occupy your time.

What’s wrong about it? I’m going straight off the DoD comptroller’s documentation. So I may not know much about what I’m talking about, but I’m pretty sure the comptroller does. They might even know more than you (though I know that’s hard for you to believe).

(12-12-2020 05:59 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

I'm fine with living in Dixie. I prefer it to be called F U land however.

(12-12-2020 01:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 01:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 12:23 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:40 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This wouldn’t be about where they live, it’d be about taking another citizenship and possibly other activities that impact benefits. For example, a military retiree can’t work for a foreign government without congressional approval. If they do, then their pay is hit up for whatever that government is paying them.

Is secession a voluntary renunciation of citizenship? If so, those benefits are lost according to the comptroller of the DoD.

Assuming a split, and a peaceful one, there would still be at least a few shared things, like national defense, mail service and interstate maintenance, for example. I also think the borders would essentially be open.

Think EU. The things you seem concerned about are minor bumps that can be overcome. Again, assuming a peaceful split and not a bloody one.

Peaceful doesn’t mean without any animosity though. What you’re saying here is that Texas would be allowed to leave while being protected by the US, having their interstates maintained by the US, mail, etc. There’s no way that sweet of a deal could be made.

But then again, this is all moot, because these people don’t really want to split.

I said share, not go on the dole.

And what people don't really want to split? I bet about 45% of the country would be fine with it. The ones who hate high taxes, the Green New Deal, gun control laws that don't control anything except law abiding people, etc.

The issue is we're all mixed up together geographically. So you divide it up somehow, and if you wind up in the wrong country, you get help to move one time.

I’d have to disagree with you there. I’d bet that 75% think the issue is too silly for serious conversation.

Probably....right now. But if the Democrats win two more Senate seats using the same similar shady waves of questionable "mail in" ballots in Georgia (I mean, noting has changed, so thats completely possible), then pack the court with 26 justices as rumored, and add two more hard left "states" in the form of Puerto Rico and DC---succession talk might become very real very fast....and not just in Texas.

(12-12-2020 05:59 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Empty quarter, bread basket and Dixie stick together and rule the world.

New England and the west coast just need annexed by Canada and call it a day.

(12-12-2020 05:59 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

I'm basically where Mexamerica, Breadbasket, and Dixie come together. And all three fit.

I still think the trigger to get things moving could be, interestingly enough, Alberta. They have elected a secessionist majority in their provincial parliament, and Canada allows secession. Right now, they are being taxed at something like $20K per person per year to fund the bribe to keep Quebec from leaving, and they're getting fed up, particularly when Canada won't let them build pipelines to export their oil. That's why the pipes through the US are so big for them.

My scenario is Alberta goes, then Ontario and Quebec need to join the northeast USA to find funding to keep the bribe going, and that triggers a breakup, with pretty much the Empty Quarter, Breadbasket, and Dixie provinces and states (Heartland or flyover country) going one way and the two coastal elites going the other.

In that scenario, what Heartland would have is the primary source of wealth creation--the largest contiguous agricultural area in the world, transversed by half of the world's miles of internal navigable waterways. As the USA economy has transitioned from production to consumption and services, that wealth has migrated to the large financial centers in New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. The development of a major financial center to keep that wealth at home would be a massive priority. Fortunately there are several likely candidates--Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, and Denver come quickly to mind as possible candidates.

They can't secede on a simple majority. Texas is purple...they wouldn't get 2/3 or 3/4 in a statewide Texit referendum. They could however hope for a Texpel by the U.S. sometime in the future.