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Poll: If you had to pick a school to add to the AAC, who would you take? (All the good options have already said no)
Buffalo
ODU
UAB
USM
UTSA
Rice
Marshall
GA St
Charlotte
Other G5 or FBS Indy
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If the AAC had to pick one
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esayem Online
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Post: #21
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 11:30 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Budgets and markets - ECU's represents the AAC's budget floor at $46.9 M and the league touts 10 Top-58 DMA's.

School | Budget | DMA
ODU | $44.3 M | 42
UB | $40.8 M | 52
GSU | $39.5 M | 10
UNCC | $37.9 M | 21
UAB | $34.7 M | 44
MU | $30.6 M | 74
UTSA | $30.4 M | 31
USM | $24.2 M | 167

The line of demarcation would be planted between UAB's $34.7 M and Marshall's $30.6 M, as that gap will grow with UAB's new on-campus football stadium and $125M Legacy Arena renovation, eliminating Marshall, UTSA, & USM. Market size would eliminate Marshall & USM as well.

Charlotte gets eliminated next: 15k seat FB stadium, no FB success.
App St isn't listed but they'll have a hell of a time breaking through with its market -- App St's value is too performance-oriented for an urban league.

That leaves 5: Rice, ODU, Buffalo, UAB, & Georgia St.

Rice and Buffalo represent G5's only AAU schools (sans Tulane), so extra points. But Buffalo's far-flung geography with no exceptional fan support to makeup for it eliminates them.

Final 4: Rice, ODU, UAB, & Georgia St.

If they go budget, ODU.
If they go market, Georgia St.
If they go academics, Rice.
If they go well-roundedness, UAB.

It can go any of 4 directions.

My guess:

TIER I (legitimate shot)
1 UAB - 30%
2 ODU - 25%
3 Rice - 20%
4 GA St - 15%

TIER II (long shots)
5 Buffalo - 6%
6 Charlotte - 2%
7 App St - 2%

TIER III (no shot)
8 Marshall - 0%
9 UTSA - 0%
10 Southern Miss - 0%

UAB checks every box and who I'd expect to win:
Market - #44 DMA, top-2 in CFB TV ratings, top-10 state for FB recruits
Academics - #166 USNWR, R1
Budget - $12M below ECU, but would be made up with new FB stadium, renovated BB arena, & AAC tv revenue
History - Past shared membership, current football success, past MBB success

Thanks for this. I take it Rice doesn't share their numbers, being a private school?

Where is UMass?
07-09-2020 01:08 PM
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esayem Online
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Post: #22
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 12:36 PM)orangefan Wrote:  I voted Marshall, but ODU was a close second in my mind. With UConn gone, the conference could really use a school to bolster the eastern part of the conference. Marshall sits nicely between ECU, Temple and Cincy and has well established football and basketball programs. ODU is a nice bridge between Temple and ECU and is in a larger TV market. VCU would solve the problem very well also if football is not a consideration, i.e., the conference is not trying to get back to 12 football members.

I have a very hard time seeing Cincinnati and Marshall share a conference.
07-09-2020 01:10 PM
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Post: #23
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
If y’all focused as much on COVID as the AAC, the epidemic would be over
07-09-2020 01:12 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
I voted other. They would drop the CCG for a year or two.

Honestly only Rice can afford the AAC among schools east of the Mountain Time Zone. ODU is plausible, and that is about it.

The money is not enough to flip the equation from net negative to positive for the MWC schools since they would only get a FB share (75%) and would have to drop their Olympics in a bad conference and suffer losses in prominence, NCAA credit distribution, Basketball gate and donations for Olympics, some even paying travel fees as well as the 2nd admission fee. BYU it doesn't help since it down grades their schedule and moves them further from P status, as they'd have to drop most of the P5 schools on their schedule.

The only school where the money makes sense is Colorado State if invited as a full member. They already have an AAC level budget (not even Rice is quite there) and could fit regionally with SMU, Tulsa and Wichita State, and even Memphis and Houston are not too bad travel. As a full member they would be right side up financially with a move. The only question is, would they be willing to break their front range and four corner rivalries (New Mexico, Air Force, Wyoming, Utah State, Boise State and even Colorado) for a shift East, even if it's a net of perhaps $3M a year to the budget (that is significant).

The math doesn't work (or even come close) for San Diego State (a near major Basketball program with a NET of 4 would be relegated to playing the likes of CSUN, CSU Bakersfield, UC Irvine and UC Riverside), Fresno State or Boise State (really negative for them given travel fee for Olympics, the $1.8M bonus from the MWC TV contract and the tilted distributions in their favor).

Army said no even after a summer of strong pitch by the Naval academy, and it's hard to see them change stance, as Indy is working pretty well for them. Air Force has all the same negatives for Olympics as Boise State, Fresno State and San Diego State, as well as losing front range rivalries; and they also said no.

The field is really only three: Colorado State, Rice, and Old Dominion. The first two passed the first phase of the Big 12 expansion search, which tells you they are the strongest possible choices. Old Dominion fit geographically and has sufficient support from student fees, but they really don't have enough fan support, tradition or success. So of the three, they are the weakest.

Other names thrown out lack the finances (UTSA, Marshall, Charlotte) or are small schools or both (e.g., UAB, Southern Miss).

The best strategy for the AAC is to ask for a waiver extension if Divisions are still required for a CCG; Covid-19 is a valid reason to put off expansion, and I think the other conferences would agree. Failing that, after the 2021 season they could opt to return to Divisions with Navy skipping one West opponent each year for three years (say Tulane in '22, Tulsa in '23 and Memphis in '24). This is key as June 30th, 2025 is the expiration of the Big 12 GOR, and Oklahoma's decision on whether to stay in the Big 12 or move to another conference (SEC or B1G). If OU stays put, then the AAC will know they need a 12th member. If OU leaves then a decision to expand or not depends upon whom the Big 12 chooses as a replacement (BYU, Houston, Cincy and UCF are the leading candidates) or if they simply stand at 9 and play an 8 game round robin. The scenarios are endless. But the uncertainty about 2025 makes any moves into the AAC unlikely before OU's direction is clear. Even Colorado State would likely put off a move (why join a conference that could see two or three of the top schools leave the day you join) if offered.

The best and most likely strategy is to do nothing, just stretch things out until Spring 2025, when you know what will happen in the big picture. Frankly Divisionless football is the most likely. That is why I voted "other".
07-09-2020 01:19 PM
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Post: #25
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 01:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(07-09-2020 11:30 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  Why is App State or Georgia Southern not on this list?

I don't consider either an AAC candidate (just want to make that clear).

However, since the premise is "had to pick one" I can tell you if the AAC were consulting ESPN and asking who among the schools that would accept an invite will dilute their TV money the least I can promise you Georgia Southern and App State will be higher on the list than Georgia State, UNCC, and probably most of the teams listed in the poll.


For those that still haven't figured it out, ESPN doesn't give a rat's *** about media markets. They're going to pay more for teams that get eyeballs on TVs. ESPN's favorite Sun Belt matchup to choose for TV is Georgia Southern versus Appalachian State, two teams in towns with a combined population under 60,000. It's been chosen every year since both teams entered the conference and every other Sun Belt game has been untelevised at least twice since then.

The 2019 GA Southern-App St game drew 195k viewers. It was the lowest rated game with ratings released for that week, and the 8th-lowest rated game of the 2019 season for games with ratings released.

The 2018 GA Southern-App St game drew 105k viewers. It was the lowest rated game with ratings released for that week, and the lowest rated game of the 2018 season for games with ratings released.

The 2017 GA Southern-App St game drew 102k viewers. It was the 2nd lowest-rated game of the week ahead of only Buffalo-Bowling Green, and trailed Eastern Michigan-Central Michigan's 115k (both GSU/AppSt & CMU/WMU were on ESPNU).

The data can be found here:
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/
07-09-2020 01:27 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #26
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 01:08 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-09-2020 11:30 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Budgets and markets - ECU's represents the AAC's budget floor at $46.9 M and the league touts 10 Top-58 DMA's.

School | Budget | DMA
ODU | $44.3 M | 42
UB | $40.8 M | 52
GSU | $39.5 M | 10
UNCC | $37.9 M | 21
UAB | $34.7 M | 44
MU | $30.6 M | 74
UTSA | $30.4 M | 31
USM | $24.2 M | 167

The line of demarcation would be planted between UAB's $34.7 M and Marshall's $30.6 M, as that gap will grow with UAB's new on-campus football stadium and $125M Legacy Arena renovation, eliminating Marshall, UTSA, & USM. Market size would eliminate Marshall & USM as well.

Charlotte gets eliminated next: 15k seat FB stadium, no FB success.
App St isn't listed but they'll have a hell of a time breaking through with its market -- App St's value is too performance-oriented for an urban league.

That leaves 5: Rice, ODU, Buffalo, UAB, & Georgia St.

Rice and Buffalo represent G5's only AAU schools (sans Tulane), so extra points. But Buffalo's far-flung geography with no exceptional fan support to makeup for it eliminates them.

Final 4: Rice, ODU, UAB, & Georgia St.

If they go budget, ODU.
If they go market, Georgia St.
If they go academics, Rice.
If they go well-roundedness, UAB.

It can go any of 4 directions.

My guess:

TIER I (legitimate shot)
1 UAB - 30%
2 ODU - 25%
3 Rice - 20%
4 GA St - 15%

TIER II (long shots)
5 Buffalo - 6%
6 Charlotte - 2%
7 App St - 2%

TIER III (no shot)
8 Marshall - 0%
9 UTSA - 0%
10 Southern Miss - 0%

UAB checks every box and who I'd expect to win:
Market - #44 DMA, top-2 in CFB TV ratings, top-10 state for FB recruits
Academics - #166 USNWR, R1
Budget - $12M below ECU, but would be made up with new FB stadium, renovated BB arena, & AAC tv revenue
History - Past shared membership, current football success, past MBB success

Thanks for this. I take it Rice doesn't share their numbers, being a private school?

Where is UMass?

Yeah, no Rice. Data listed here:
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/

UMass' budget is $48M, which would be higher than all candidates.
07-09-2020 01:31 PM
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esayem Online
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Post: #27
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 01:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Yeah, no Rice. Data listed here:
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/

UMass' budget is $48M, which would be higher than all candidates.

Thanks.

$48M eclipses ECU. By virtue of the ability to afford competing in the AAC, and being a New England replacement for UConn, I feel UMass should be on the list. Granted, the league office is moving away from the northeast.
07-09-2020 01:40 PM
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Post: #28
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 10:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  I can see Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, and Navy advocating for Rice. Possibly Houston as well since I don’t really think they compete for the same players, but I’m not sure about that.

Birmingham has a nice location because they’re in the footprint, but not encroaching on any other member’s territory, like Old Dominion would (sort of).

Where can I find the athletic budgets of these schools? I’m going to need more data before I vote.

lol... What is it with you and Rice... You been pushing Rice down AAC's throats for quite some time now.. You ever stop and wonder that perhaps the AAC isn't interested in Rice.
07-09-2020 02:13 PM
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Post: #29
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 01:12 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  If y’all focused as much on COVID as the AAC, the epidemic would be over

03-lmfao

AAC expansion (with a poll, of course), OMG how will UConn ever survive, how to re-shuffle CUSA and Sun Belt. Our endlessly repeated topics.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2020 02:46 PM by Wedge.)
07-09-2020 02:46 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
People who are fans of other conferences keep posted polls asking which garbage teams the AAC wants to add, then fans of those garbage teams vote for their teams.
07-09-2020 02:48 PM
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Post: #31
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
I think there was a thread identical to this one not long ago.


Summer rerun??
07-09-2020 02:48 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 02:48 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I think there was a thread identical to this one not long ago.


Summer rerun??

There are at least 5 of these, none of which include any teams we'd consider, despite the fact that no teams have formally said yes or no.
07-09-2020 02:50 PM
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Post: #33
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
The OP must have some pull with the mods. I tried starting a new thread here once but was DENIED because they said it was too similar to a previous thread.
07-09-2020 02:51 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #34
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 10:11 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s assume that the NCAA says no to divisionless after the waiver.

Let’s also assume that all the favorites (Army, Air Force, BYU, Boise St) have all said no.

Who does the AAC take?

You do realize a CCG can still be held with uneven divisions. Even if the current divisionless waiver is not extended, there would be no requirement for the AAC to add a 12th. That said, it it had to add a team, I'd opt for a split invite. I'd invite the best G5 football program as a "football only" and add VCU as non-football addition.
07-09-2020 02:54 PM
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Post: #35
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 01:27 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(07-09-2020 01:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(07-09-2020 11:30 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  Why is App State or Georgia Southern not on this list?

I don't consider either an AAC candidate (just want to make that clear).

However, since the premise is "had to pick one" I can tell you if the AAC were consulting ESPN and asking who among the schools that would accept an invite will dilute their TV money the least I can promise you Georgia Southern and App State will be higher on the list than Georgia State, UNCC, and probably most of the teams listed in the poll.


For those that still haven't figured it out, ESPN doesn't give a rat's *** about media markets. They're going to pay more for teams that get eyeballs on TVs. ESPN's favorite Sun Belt matchup to choose for TV is Georgia Southern versus Appalachian State, two teams in towns with a combined population under 60,000. It's been chosen every year since both teams entered the conference and every other Sun Belt game has been untelevised at least twice since then.

The 2019 GA Southern-App St game drew 195k viewers. It was the lowest rated game with ratings released for that week, and the 8th-lowest rated game of the 2019 season for games with ratings released.

The 2018 GA Southern-App St game drew 105k viewers. It was the lowest rated game with ratings released for that week, and the lowest rated game of the 2018 season for games with ratings released.

The 2017 GA Southern-App St game drew 102k viewers. It was the 2nd lowest-rated game of the week ahead of only Buffalo-Bowling Green, and trailed Eastern Michigan-Central Michigan's 115k (both GSU/AppSt & CMU/WMU were on ESPNU).

The data can be found here:
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

1. Those comparisons are useless. Where do the games rank among ESPNU games for the SBC, CUSA, and MAC? All but a handful of G5 teams on ESPNU and it won't get ratings as good as any 2 of the other teams on ESPN2.

2. Even if we ignore that, it doesn't change what I'm saying about which programs from the Sun Belt ESPN chooses to show.
07-09-2020 02:58 PM
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Post: #36
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
(07-09-2020 02:13 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  
(07-09-2020 10:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  I can see Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, and Navy advocating for Rice. Possibly Houston as well since I don’t really think they compete for the same players, but I’m not sure about that.

Birmingham has a nice location because they’re in the footprint, but not encroaching on any other member’s territory, like Old Dominion would (sort of).

Where can I find the athletic budgets of these schools? I’m going to need more data before I vote.

lol... What is it with you and Rice... You been pushing Rice down AAC's throats for quite some time now.. You ever stop and wonder that perhaps the AAC isn't interested in Rice.

They're the best realistic candidate.

What's the deal with AAC fanboys thinking the AAC can land a bunch of western teams despite the fact that would have happened by now if it were even remotely feasible? Ever stop and think BYU and co. are happy where they are and don't want to join the AAC?

lulz
07-09-2020 03:06 PM
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Post: #37
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
First choice is None and play Uneven Divisions of 5 and 6.

Second is add UAB, on a discounted phase in starting at 20% going up 5% a year. They can reach 100% share in our next TV deal.
07-09-2020 03:19 PM
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Post: #38
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
I voted UAB.
With COVID making travel difficult in the future (forever)
Go with a school in the middle of footprint who played with everyone in CUSA for years.
07-09-2020 03:41 PM
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Post: #39
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
TV markets to mean anything anymore fellas LOL. Games are streamed and all the existing markets are owned by P5 schools.
07-09-2020 03:44 PM
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Post: #40
RE: If the AAC had to pick one
Alright, so we settled it then.

A) AAC goes with uneven divisions if denied the waiver

B) Rice to the ACC Coastal (which could be an improvement)
07-09-2020 03:45 PM
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