Quote:Lawyers for the family of a black jogger in Georgia, who was chased and gunned down by white men who said they believed he was a burglar, are calling for authorities to make arrests.

The attorneys also released a video that apparently shows the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery and an altercation in the moments prior.

Arbery, 25, was shot to death in Brunswick, a coastal city about midway between Savannah and Jacksonville, Florida, on Feb. 23, as he was running through the Satilla Shores neighborhood.

Police have identified the two men who chased him as Brunswick resident Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son, Travis McMichael, 34. Neither has been arrested or charged, and the investigation is ongoing.

NBC News

You attack someone holding a gun, you get shot.

next.......

(05-06-2020 08:16 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  You attack someone holding a gun, you get shot.

next.......

There's more to it than that and it goes back a few years now. But in not too recent history a woman pushing a baby carriage in that part of town was shot in the face and killed in a petty robbery. Tensions over a spiking crime rate in Brunswick are quite high. The wealthy whites have all fled to St. Simon's Island or Jekyll Island. The city of Brunswick has always had petty crime. It's the only place that my family ever suffered a burglary and we suffered 3 while we were there, and in 2 different locations. Racial tensions were there in the 80's now I'd say the feel on the streets (I was there a year ago) is more closely akin to the wrong side of Jerusalem or Chicago depending upon your frame of reference.

I'm not surprised something like this happened as it has been happening with whites being killed but with no national attention. This is one of those stories the liberals and conservatives need to wait upon to see what the truth is when it eventually emerges. My gut feeling is that there was a lot of stored powder on both sides in this and a spark set it off.

Waiting on the rest of the story, as usual.

(05-06-2020 07:42 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

Quote:Lawyers for the family of a black jogger in Georgia, who was chased and gunned down by white men who said they believed he was a burglar, are calling for authorities to make arrests.

The attorneys also released a video that apparently shows the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery and an altercation in the moments prior.

Arbery, 25, was shot to death in Brunswick, a coastal city about midway between Savannah and Jacksonville, Florida, on Feb. 23, as he was running through the Satilla Shores neighborhood.

Police have identified the two men who chased him as Brunswick resident Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son, Travis McMichael, 34. Neither has been arrested or charged, and the investigation is ongoing.

NBC News

You do realize that a black murdered a white today. Do I have to search for it?

I watched the video. Hard to justify in my opinion but we need more facts.

What does race have to do with murder? Discover the facts and have a trial if the facts demand it. Then punish the guilty to the fullest extent of the law.

Race only matters to those keeping score.

That’s all I have to say about that.

The area was experiencing robberies, and he was caught looking into (scouting?) a house. He was "jogging" 12 miles from his house, so 24 miles (minimum) round trip. Was he training for a marathon? That's a hell of a jog.

If the supposed murderers were just out to randomly kill someone, why would they allow him to get his hand on their gun and punch one of them in the head?

Just some things to think about before we feed these guys to the outrage rob.

What I think happened is they were going to try to detain him until the cops arrived, and they were forced to defend themselves. You can argue that they should have just let the cops do their job, but I see self-defense, not murder.

This pretty clearly seems to me like voluntary manslaughter, though IANAL. I understand why the attorneys for the victim want to say murder, because there is a lot of pretty egregious negligent actions on the part of the shooter(s), but based on the facts at hand, it doesn't seem to meet the definition of murder.

As with these shootings, there is action on both sides that caused things to end like this. That said, the deceased's actions are SIGNIFICANTLY more reasonable than the shooter(s), who began a situation with unnecessary show of force, leaving the deceased in a position where it seemed necessary to use self-defense, though being outnumbered by 2 men with guns to 1 unarmed man doesn't seem like good odds in a self-defense action.

I have zero idea what the alleged defendant's were doing. I don't see how these guys aren't in jail. They seemingly deserve to be.

(05-06-2020 10:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The area was experiencing robberies, and he was caught looking into (scouting?) a house. He was "jogging" 12 miles from his house, so 24 miles (minimum) round trip. Was he training for a marathon? That's a hell of a jog.

If the supposed murderers were just out to randomly kill someone, why would they allow him to get his hand on their gun and punch one of them in the head?

Just some things to think about before we feed these guys to the outrage rob.

What I think happened is they were going to try to detain him until the cops arrived, and they were forced to defend themselves. You can argue that they should have just let the cops do their job, but I see self-defense, not murder.

With the caveat that it's only based on a google search, Georgia law says that "a private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his/her presence or within his/her immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probably grounds of suspicion."

The police report says the McMichael's hadn't seen the victim commit any crime. So, it doesn't appear they had a right to attempt to stop him. Their actions don't seem justified. They also claim in the same report that they pulled up along side the victim, but the video doesn't corroborate that.

It definitely seems like this was the case of two guys on a power trip attempting to play hero. And it's likely going to cost them their freedom.

While acknowledging that race is an inevitable factor in a case like this, even completely removing that factor and sticking to the info at hand doesn't make the alleged shooters look anything but guilty. The case will get attention because of the understandable racial element, but taking that out doesn't change the story IMO. It's pretty bad either way.

(05-06-2020 10:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The area was experiencing robberies, and he was caught looking into (scouting?) a house. He was "jogging" 12 miles from his house, so 24 miles (minimum) round trip. Was he training for a marathon? That's a hell of a jog.

If the supposed murderers were just out to randomly kill someone, why would they allow him to get his hand on their gun and punch one of them in the head?

Just some things to think about before we feed these guys to the outrage rob.

What I think happened is they were going to try to detain him until the cops arrived, and they were forced to defend themselves. You can argue that they should have just let the cops do their job, but I see self-defense, not murder.

When I lived in that city one of my friends was a local cop. He got out of law enforcement and put himself through law school. He got out of law enforcement because he claimed he was told he would haul drugs in the trunk of his police car for double his rate of pay or his wife would be collecting his insurance, that it was his decision. I don't know if things are the same with the law enforcement or not, but the area's crime has skyrocketed. I seriously doubt that the white community or black community has a high degree of confidence in the law enforcement. And if they were already doing their jobs the tension in the community wouldn't be so high. And for what it is worth it is drug sales that drive the crime. It wasn't nearly as violent when I lived there but property crime was quite high.

This looks horrible. So did the saga of the thug for life Trayvon. What’s up with the racial composition of those wearing/not wearing masks in the video? I hope this young man gets any justice he deserves.

Way to hard to pull judgement from that video.

I don’t believe they should have confronted him. If there was a burglary they could have caught up to him and just taken a picture from the safety of the truck and let the authorities handle it.

Not sure this is all of the info, bit initially looks like murder to me.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(05-06-2020 08:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Waiting on the rest of the story, as usual.

now you have it:

https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/125...gr%5Etweet


hunted daily - what the fool neglects to mention is that its blacks hunting other blacks mostly.

(05-07-2020 07:21 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 08:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Waiting on the rest of the story, as usual.

now you have it:

https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/125...gr%5Etweet


hunted daily - what the fool neglects to mention is that its blacks hunting other blacks mostly.

Lebron. Lol. What a tard.

Nah, still waiting

Georgia's citizen's arrest law gives us the right to attempt to detain someone we've witnessed committing a crime until police arrive. The problem is, these two men did not witness a crime.

Quote:"Mr. Arbery is only observed running down the road. And even if there's something that we didn't see off camera, these men gave statements to law enforcement," said Merritt. " And they said the worst that he was ever accused of was looking into a home that was under construction. That is by no stretch of the imagination a burglary or any crime whatsoever. And so without a crime, there's no purpose for citizens arrest."

[source]

In the statements the two men made, they said they armed themselves in case he had a gun on him and attempted to catch up to him in their truck. They pulled over and said "Stop, we want to talk to you" and that's when Arbery "violently attacked" McMichael and tried to grab for his gun, prompting McMichael to fire two shots at Arbery.

The video shows a different story. You can see Arbery running down the street as the McMichaels block his path with their truck, standing outside their truck with weapons already drawn. As Aubery attempts to go around the passenger side of the truck, Travis McMichael runs to the front of the truck with his shotgun and can be heard yelling something before firing a shot at Arbery. Because the video was taken from behind the truck, it's unclear whether the first shot was fired before or after Arbery attempted to take the gun from McMichael. As a fight over the gun ensues, two more shots are fired before Arbery falls to the ground.

Gregory McMichael used to work for the DA's office, and I believe that's why no charges or arrests were made after the incident. That's crooked small town Georgia for you. Thankfully the video surfaced and prompted Governor Kemp to open a GBI investigation into the incident. At the very least, this case should go to trial. You could argue the McMichaels acted in self defense or committed premeditated murder, but that should be for a jury to decide after examining the evidence.

(05-07-2020 08:17 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Georgia's citizen's arrest law gives us the right to attempt to detain someone we've witnessed committing a crime until police arrive. The problem is, these two men did not witness a crime.

Quote:"Mr. Arbery is only observed running down the road. And even if there's something that we didn't see off camera, these men gave statements to law enforcement," said Merritt. " And they said the worst that he was ever accused of was looking into a home that was under construction. That is by no stretch of the imagination a burglary or any crime whatsoever. And so without a crime, there's no purpose for citizens arrest."

In the statements the two men made, they said they armed themselves in case he had a gun on him and attempted to catch up to him in their truck. They pulled over and said "Stop, we want to talk to you" and that's when Arbery "violently attacked" McMichael and tried to grab for his gun, prompting McMichael to fire two shots at Arbery.
The video shows a different story. You can see Arbery running down the street as the McMichaels block his path with their truck, standing outside their truck with weapons already drawn. As Aubery attempts to go around the passenger side of the truck, Travis McMichael runs to the front of the truck with his shotgun and can be heard yelling something before firing a shot at Arbery. Because the video was taken from behind the truck, it's unclear whether the first shot was fired before or after Arbery attempted to take the gun from McMichael. As a fight over the gun ensues, two more shots are fired before Arbery falls to the ground.
Gregory McMichael used to work for the DA's office, and I believe that's why no charges or arrests were made after the incident. That's crooked small town Georgia for you. Thankfully the video surfaced and prompted Governor Kemp to open a GBI investigation into the incident. At the very least, this case should go to trial. You could argue the McMichaels acted in self defense or committed premeditated murder, but that should be for a jury to decide after examining the evidence.

I'm reminded of,

"That's the night that the lights went out in Georgia
That's the night that they hung an innocent man
Well, don't trust your soul to no backwoods Southern lawyer
Cause the judge in the town's got bloodstains on his hands."

Moral of the story is that next time someone pulls a gun on you, assume you're under citizen's arrest and comply with their orders. Right? Under no circumstances should you defend yourself.

Zimmerman vs Martin showed us that the survivor gets to tell the story. You pull a gun on someone and they fight back, the person with the gun is the victim.

Here's another question. If the deceased in this case has been carrying a gun, and shot the two men who had guns drawn on him, would it be justified as self defense? I have to assume it would.

(05-06-2020 10:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The area was experiencing robberies, and he was caught looking into (scouting?) a house. He was "jogging" 12 miles from his house, so 24 miles (minimum) round trip. Was he training for a marathon? That's a hell of a jog.

Where did you get 12 miles from? His mom lived less than a mile away as the crow flies, and roughly 2.5 miles away if you stuck to roadways and didn't take any shortcuts. I'm not sure if he was living with his mom at the time or not, though.

Quote:If the supposed murderers were just out to randomly kill someone, why would they allow him to get his hand on their gun and punch one of them in the head?

They weren't going out to randomly kill someone. They assumed Arbery was guilty of a string of burglaries around the area and took the law into their own hands. As many have pointed out here already, these men had no right to perform a citizen's arrest.

Quote:Just some things to think about before we feed these guys to the outrage rob.

What I think happened is they were going to try to detain him until the cops arrived, and they were forced to defend themselves. You can argue that they should have just let the cops do their job, but I see self-defense, not murder.

Yup. I will argue that.