So, looks like it still wont be an impeachment inquiry. Pelosi wants a full house vote on procedures for something that shall remain unnamed.

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:10 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:34 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The operation to kill Baghdadi was secret.

So, it was “secret” and it was “non-public”, right? What I’m getting at is, what’s the difference?

Secret means you don't know about it. We all know these hearings are happening. The GOP is acting like they have no clue what's happening with the impeachment inquiry when they're right there in the ******* hearings, participating, and asking questions.

Wrong. Thats actually not the definition of secret, the definition is a piece of information that is not generally known or is not known by someone else and should not be told to others.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict...ish/secret

So while we might know that the hearings are happening, they are still a secret because we dont know whats happening behind doors. If you want to play semantics, we can definitely play semantics.

and no, the GOP is not participating and asking questions, its a democrat lead inquiry, so its actually the democrats that are participating and asking questions. Sure they might be a couple of republicans in the panel, but lets not get misguided here.

And you don't need to know! In case you missed civics, we live in a representative republic. We elect people to act on our behalf, and we have elected officials of both parties participating in these hearings.

And if you honestly believe that the GOP is not asking questions in these hearings, you're a bigger fool than I thought. And if the GOP is not taking their allotted time to ask questions, they're even bigger fools than I thought!

Quote:(CNN)Democrats and Republicans got into a shouting match behind closed doors on Tuesday while interviewing a witness in the impeachment investigation, with Democrats accusing Republicans of trying to out the anonymous whistleblower who sparked the impeachment inquiry, according to five sources from both parties.

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff objected to a line of questioning from Republicans during the deposition of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the National Security Council official in charge of Ukraine policy, charging that the GOP questions were part of an effort to out the whistleblower, sources said.

Shouting match erupts in Vindman deposition as Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to out whistleblower

Here endeth the lessen. Please stop this ridiculous lie. You just look foolish.

The Ridiculous lie is this whole Bolshevik shitshow being run by Sciff where there is no due process, questions by Republicans he doesn't want answered are shut down, and the White House isn't a participant.

All of it goes against the constitution, the established method of impeachment, and is nothing more than a concoction of disparate protocols from investigative processes (treatment of whistleblowers) is being convoluted to be used to erode due process.

It is however a prime example of why we need to govern public education and keep it in accordance with the tenets for our Constitutional Republic, hold political leaders who try to subvert it accountable legally, and return to what is truly the rule of law, and this isn't it, and it's not it at any recognizable level.

So RWT the ridiculous lie is what is being perpetrated upon the American people by Democrats in the House whose fingers are the pockets of the Chinese and Russians in much bigger ways due to their corporate backing. Hunter Biden would have been investigated by the FBI under Hoover as any politicians family would have been. The fact that the FBI no longer handles these conflict of interest investigations as a matter of pro forma business is alarming. And the reason it is alarming is because the leadership of the DOJ and FBI likely have their fingers in the wrong pockets as well.

It is the smoke signal of my lifetime telling me that things here could get much farther out of hand than I hope any of us want it to.

(10-29-2019 03:10 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  C'mon dude, you know ******* well that the GOP members on these panels are all given their time to ask questions. Why keep playing ignorant? Simply unbelievable. I'll soon be left with about one right leaning poster here capable of honest dialogue. Sad.

Well we have no liberals capable of honest dialogue---just sayin...

Because they've been run off with all the nonsense. I'm about the only one left or willing to still try.

by refusing to acknowledge that an obviously secret hearing held in a SKIF is not "secret"? Yeah. Lets hear it for "honest" liberal dialogue.

A G A I N, I know you can't quite seem to understand this, but american citizens don't get to see everything congress does, nor should they. We're in the "grand jury" phase of the investigation. You don't make this stuff public because it taints the other witnesses. It also prevents clown shows as Gowdy mentions in the clip I posted. All these hearings have the allotted GOP membership and they are permitted to ask questions based on house rules. This is how congress works. Yes, these things are "secret" from us, but they're not secret from the GOP members of these committees, elected to represent us, who keep selling you the line and you keep falling for it. Sad.

The Senate is about to condemn the out of control conduct of the House "secret impeachment hearings". Most people get that the secret House hearings do not fit with a process of removing the president of the US. It really very simple. After 3 years of "Russia Russia Russia--we have the evidence", you can understand why this needs to be public and above board in order to have any credibility what so ever. For instance---there is absolutely no reason for the Intel committee to be running it. The Judicial Committee is proper place. This has zero to do with intelligence agencies. It was done simply so unscrupulous Schiff can do his unethical Politburo dance in secret.

(10-29-2019 02:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Knock it off, you know damned well what I meant. But what's actually more amazing, and sad, is you guys believing this nonsensical line from schmucks like Jim Jordan who are in the damned hearings they claim to know nothing about!

This is not hard to understand---yet liberals who want to use secret hearing to smear the current president simply wont admit it.

If its not available to the public---its SECRET. Most normal Americans understand that simple truth----The wild eyed liberal pitch fork mob---not so much.

IT'S AVAILABLE TO ELECTED REPUBLICANS ACTING ON YOUR BEHALF. No, you don't get to see everything, nor should you.

Becasue its "secret", right? lol....cant have it both ways my friend. And its not availble to all our elected reps. Nor is it available to the public---which it should be. This is not a debate over a bridge in Ohio or a new weapons system. This is about overturning a public election. Thats the public's business---although it seems the Democrats dont think elections matter anymore. The polls are now shifting away from the Democrats on the impeachment matter. The Democrats need a way out.

No, it's not. Nothing that happens in these inquiries, nor any subsequent vote on articles of impeachment in the house, nor any subsequent vote on impeachment in the Senate overturns the 2016 election which trump won.

Saying otherwise is moronic.

And again, the GOP is participating in these hearings. Congress conducts non-public hearings ALL THE TIME.

Did you see all the data when Ken Starr was investigating Clinton? Did you see all the Benghazi hearings? No, you didn't.

Clinton had due process as a proper impeachment Resolution was filed and voted on

Nancy said herself what they are voting for is NOT AN IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION

(10-29-2019 03:12 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Hes right. You cannot gather evidence obtained illegally and use it in a court of law.

(10-29-2019 03:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:10 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:34 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  So, it was “secret” and it was “non-public”, right? What I’m getting at is, what’s the difference?

Secret means you don't know about it. We all know these hearings are happening. The GOP is acting like they have no clue what's happening with the impeachment inquiry when they're right there in the ******* hearings, participating, and asking questions.

Wrong. Thats actually not the definition of secret, the definition is a piece of information that is not generally known or is not known by someone else and should not be told to others.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict...ish/secret

So while we might know that the hearings are happening, they are still a secret because we dont know whats happening behind doors. If you want to play semantics, we can definitely play semantics.

and no, the GOP is not participating and asking questions, its a democrat lead inquiry, so its actually the democrats that are participating and asking questions. Sure they might be a couple of republicans in the panel, but lets not get misguided here.

And you don't need to know! In case you missed civics, we live in a representative republic. We elect people to act on our behalf, and we have elected officials of both parties participating in these hearings.

And if you honestly believe that the GOP is not asking questions in these hearings, you're a bigger fool than I thought. And if the GOP is not taking their allotted time to ask questions, they're even bigger fools than I thought!

Quote:(CNN)Democrats and Republicans got into a shouting match behind closed doors on Tuesday while interviewing a witness in the impeachment investigation, with Democrats accusing Republicans of trying to out the anonymous whistleblower who sparked the impeachment inquiry, according to five sources from both parties.

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff objected to a line of questioning from Republicans during the deposition of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the National Security Council official in charge of Ukraine policy, charging that the GOP questions were part of an effort to out the whistleblower, sources said.

Shouting match erupts in Vindman deposition as Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to out whistleblower

Here endeth the lessen. Please stop this ridiculous lie. You just look foolish.

The Ridiculous lie is this whole Bolshevik shitshow being run by Sciff where there is no due process, questions by Republicans he doesn't want answered are shut down, and the White House isn't a participant.

All of it goes against the constitution, the established method of impeachment, and is nothing more than a concoction of disparate protocols from investigative processes (treatment of whistleblowers) is being convoluted to be used to erode due process.

It is however a prime example of why we need to govern public education and keep it in accordance with the tenets for our Constitutional Republic, hold political leaders who try to subvert it accountable legally, and return to what is truly the rule of law, and this isn't it, and it's not it at any recognizable level.

So RWT the ridiculous lie is what is being perpetrated upon the American people by Democrats in the House whose fingers are the pockets of the Chinese and Russians in much bigger ways due to their corporate backing. Hunter Biden would have been investigated by the FBI under Hoover as any politicians family would have been. The fact that the FBI no longer handles these conflict of interest investigations as a matter of pro forma business is alarming. And the reason it is alarming is because the leadership of the DOJ and FBI likely have their fingers in the wrong pockets as well.

It is the smoke signal of my lifetime telling me that things here could get much farther out of hand than I hope any of us want it to.

Source?

And if they are, sorry son, elections have consequences.

(10-29-2019 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:10 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 01:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Secret means you don't know about it. We all know these hearings are happening. The GOP is acting like they have no clue what's happening with the impeachment inquiry when they're right there in the ******* hearings, participating, and asking questions.

Wrong. Thats actually not the definition of secret, the definition is a piece of information that is not generally known or is not known by someone else and should not be told to others.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict...ish/secret

So while we might know that the hearings are happening, they are still a secret because we dont know whats happening behind doors. If you want to play semantics, we can definitely play semantics.

and no, the GOP is not participating and asking questions, its a democrat lead inquiry, so its actually the democrats that are participating and asking questions. Sure they might be a couple of republicans in the panel, but lets not get misguided here.

And you don't need to know! In case you missed civics, we live in a representative republic. We elect people to act on our behalf, and we have elected officials of both parties participating in these hearings.

And if you honestly believe that the GOP is not asking questions in these hearings, you're a bigger fool than I thought. And if the GOP is not taking their allotted time to ask questions, they're even bigger fools than I thought!

Quote:(CNN)Democrats and Republicans got into a shouting match behind closed doors on Tuesday while interviewing a witness in the impeachment investigation, with Democrats accusing Republicans of trying to out the anonymous whistleblower who sparked the impeachment inquiry, according to five sources from both parties.

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff objected to a line of questioning from Republicans during the deposition of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the National Security Council official in charge of Ukraine policy, charging that the GOP questions were part of an effort to out the whistleblower, sources said.

Shouting match erupts in Vindman deposition as Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to out whistleblower

Here endeth the lessen. Please stop this ridiculous lie. You just look foolish.

The Ridiculous lie is this whole Bolshevik shitshow being run by Sciff where there is no due process, questions by Republicans he doesn't want answered are shut down, and the White House isn't a participant.

All of it goes against the constitution, the established method of impeachment, and is nothing more than a concoction of disparate protocols from investigative processes (treatment of whistleblowers) is being convoluted to be used to erode due process.

It is however a prime example of why we need to govern public education and keep it in accordance with the tenets for our Constitutional Republic, hold political leaders who try to subvert it accountable legally, and return to what is truly the rule of law, and this isn't it, and it's not it at any recognizable level.

So RWT the ridiculous lie is what is being perpetrated upon the American people by Democrats in the House whose fingers are the pockets of the Chinese and Russians in much bigger ways due to their corporate backing. Hunter Biden would have been investigated by the FBI under Hoover as any politicians family would have been. The fact that the FBI no longer handles these conflict of interest investigations as a matter of pro forma business is alarming. And the reason it is alarming is because the leadership of the DOJ and FBI likely have their fingers in the wrong pockets as well.

It is the smoke signal of my lifetime telling me that things here could get much farther out of hand than I hope any of us want it to.

Source?

And if they are, sorry son, elections have consequences.

The Source is ever major news media outlet today, just with various spins but none denying what I've stated and with several affirming it.

(10-29-2019 03:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is not hard to understand---yet liberals who want to use secret hearing to smear the current president simply wont admit it.

If its not available to the public---its SECRET. Most normal Americans understand that simple truth----The wild eyed liberal pitch fork mob---not so much.

IT'S AVAILABLE TO ELECTED REPUBLICANS ACTING ON YOUR BEHALF. No, you don't get to see everything, nor should you.

Becasue its "secret", right? lol....cant have it both ways my friend. And its not availble to all our elected reps. Nor is it available to the public---which it should be. This is not a debate over a bridge in Ohio or a new weapons system. This is about overturning a public election. Thats the public's business---although it seems the Democrats dont think elections matter anymore. The polls are now shifting away from the Democrats on the impeachment matter. The Democrats need a way out.

No, it's not. Nothing that happens in these inquiries, nor any subsequent vote on articles of impeachment in the house, nor any subsequent vote on impeachment in the Senate overturns the 2016 election which trump won.

Saying otherwise is moronic.

And again, the GOP is participating in these hearings. Congress conducts non-public hearings ALL THE TIME.

Did you see all the data when Ken Starr was investigating Clinton? Did you see all the Benghazi hearings? No, you didn't.

Clinton had due process as a proper impeachment Resolution was filed and voted on

Nancy said herself what they are voting for is NOT AN IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION

Then what is trump bitching about? If articles are filed, he'll get his due process. And I bet he's not going to like it all that much.

(10-29-2019 03:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:10 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Wrong. Thats actually not the definition of secret, the definition is a piece of information that is not generally known or is not known by someone else and should not be told to others.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dict...ish/secret

So while we might know that the hearings are happening, they are still a secret because we dont know whats happening behind doors. If you want to play semantics, we can definitely play semantics.

and no, the GOP is not participating and asking questions, its a democrat lead inquiry, so its actually the democrats that are participating and asking questions. Sure they might be a couple of republicans in the panel, but lets not get misguided here.

And you don't need to know! In case you missed civics, we live in a representative republic. We elect people to act on our behalf, and we have elected officials of both parties participating in these hearings.

And if you honestly believe that the GOP is not asking questions in these hearings, you're a bigger fool than I thought. And if the GOP is not taking their allotted time to ask questions, they're even bigger fools than I thought!

Quote:(CNN)Democrats and Republicans got into a shouting match behind closed doors on Tuesday while interviewing a witness in the impeachment investigation, with Democrats accusing Republicans of trying to out the anonymous whistleblower who sparked the impeachment inquiry, according to five sources from both parties.

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff objected to a line of questioning from Republicans during the deposition of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the National Security Council official in charge of Ukraine policy, charging that the GOP questions were part of an effort to out the whistleblower, sources said.

Shouting match erupts in Vindman deposition as Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to out whistleblower

Here endeth the lessen. Please stop this ridiculous lie. You just look foolish.

The Ridiculous lie is this whole Bolshevik shitshow being run by Sciff where there is no due process, questions by Republicans he doesn't want answered are shut down, and the White House isn't a participant.

All of it goes against the constitution, the established method of impeachment, and is nothing more than a concoction of disparate protocols from investigative processes (treatment of whistleblowers) is being convoluted to be used to erode due process.

It is however a prime example of why we need to govern public education and keep it in accordance with the tenets for our Constitutional Republic, hold political leaders who try to subvert it accountable legally, and return to what is truly the rule of law, and this isn't it, and it's not it at any recognizable level.

So RWT the ridiculous lie is what is being perpetrated upon the American people by Democrats in the House whose fingers are the pockets of the Chinese and Russians in much bigger ways due to their corporate backing. Hunter Biden would have been investigated by the FBI under Hoover as any politicians family would have been. The fact that the FBI no longer handles these conflict of interest investigations as a matter of pro forma business is alarming. And the reason it is alarming is because the leadership of the DOJ and FBI likely have their fingers in the wrong pockets as well.

It is the smoke signal of my lifetime telling me that things here could get much farther out of hand than I hope any of us want it to.

Source?

And if they are, sorry son, elections have consequences.

The Source is ever major news media outlet today, just with various spins but none denying what I've stated and with several affirming it.

Right, Schiff objected to questions designed by the GOP to out the Whistleblower. So yeah, they needed shut down, they're inappropriate.

But I doubt you'll find any evidence that all questions have been shot down.

But at least you're making progress and finally admitting that the GOP is actually asking questions, since everyone with a brain already knew that.

It's a circus. There's a reason that Congress' approval rating is even lower than the POTUS.

(10-29-2019 03:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And you don't need to know! In case you missed civics, we live in a representative republic. We elect people to act on our behalf, and we have elected officials of both parties participating in these hearings.

And if you honestly believe that the GOP is not asking questions in these hearings, you're a bigger fool than I thought. And if the GOP is not taking their allotted time to ask questions, they're even bigger fools than I thought!

Shouting match erupts in Vindman deposition as Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to out whistleblower

Here endeth the lessen. Please stop this ridiculous lie. You just look foolish.

The Ridiculous lie is this whole Bolshevik shitshow being run by Sciff where there is no due process, questions by Republicans he doesn't want answered are shut down, and the White House isn't a participant.

All of it goes against the constitution, the established method of impeachment, and is nothing more than a concoction of disparate protocols from investigative processes (treatment of whistleblowers) is being convoluted to be used to erode due process.

It is however a prime example of why we need to govern public education and keep it in accordance with the tenets for our Constitutional Republic, hold political leaders who try to subvert it accountable legally, and return to what is truly the rule of law, and this isn't it, and it's not it at any recognizable level.

So RWT the ridiculous lie is what is being perpetrated upon the American people by Democrats in the House whose fingers are the pockets of the Chinese and Russians in much bigger ways due to their corporate backing. Hunter Biden would have been investigated by the FBI under Hoover as any politicians family would have been. The fact that the FBI no longer handles these conflict of interest investigations as a matter of pro forma business is alarming. And the reason it is alarming is because the leadership of the DOJ and FBI likely have their fingers in the wrong pockets as well.

It is the smoke signal of my lifetime telling me that things here could get much farther out of hand than I hope any of us want it to.

Source?

And if they are, sorry son, elections have consequences.

The Source is every major news media outlet today, just with various spins but none denying what I've stated and with several affirming it.

Right, Schiff objected to questions designed by the GOP to out the Whistleblower. So yeah, they needed shut down, they're inappropriate.

But I doubt you'll find any evidence that all questions have been shot down.

But at least you're making progress and finally admitting that the GOP is actually asking questions, since everyone with a brain already knew that.

They already know who the whistle blower is. It is not a matter of national security, and witnesses have to be questioned. Nobody should ever be convicted of anything by an anonymous witness, except in the People's Republic of China and the old Soviet Union, and other such aberrations.

This is the most shameful era of government in my many decades. And it is due almost wholly to the ignorance of the electorate, and bad actors in government who are nothing more than paid for corporate mouthpieces.

What a wonderful precedent the democrats set. Karma will be a ......

The definition of democrat is a communist with no statesmanship.

(10-29-2019 03:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 03:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 02:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  IT'S AVAILABLE TO ELECTED REPUBLICANS ACTING ON YOUR BEHALF. No, you don't get to see everything, nor should you.

Becasue its "secret", right? lol....cant have it both ways my friend. And its not availble to all our elected reps. Nor is it available to the public---which it should be. This is not a debate over a bridge in Ohio or a new weapons system. This is about overturning a public election. Thats the public's business---although it seems the Democrats dont think elections matter anymore. The polls are now shifting away from the Democrats on the impeachment matter. The Democrats need a way out.

No, it's not. Nothing that happens in these inquiries, nor any subsequent vote on articles of impeachment in the house, nor any subsequent vote on impeachment in the Senate overturns the 2016 election which trump won.

Saying otherwise is moronic.

And again, the GOP is participating in these hearings. Congress conducts non-public hearings ALL THE TIME.

Did you see all the data when Ken Starr was investigating Clinton? Did you see all the Benghazi hearings? No, you didn't.

Clinton had due process as a proper impeachment Resolution was filed and voted on

Nancy said herself what they are voting for is NOT AN IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION

Then what is trump bitching about? If articles are filed, he'll get his due process. And I bet he's not going to like it all that much.

Clinton was given due process while the House did its work, Trump has not been given that

Schiffty and his merry band of Mueller failures are leaking opening statements and threatening anyone leaking anything afterwards. He’s running a kangaroo court where they, being the prosecution, give their opening statements then sends the jury to do their deliberations.

I'm a real live independent. Never registered for a party, never voted a straight party ticket, have split my presidential votes evenly over the years between R, D and third party/write-ins (I can't recall all my other votes, since I've been voting since 1968).

I'm not getting in any back and forth with partisans on either side who always see things only one way, but I'll tell you what I think of this "impeachment inquiry" so far (a combo of facts as I understand them, plus my opinions).

I personally don't give a crap whether Trump is impeached or not. I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time. I will def not vote D, either. It's third party or write-in for me, probably for the rest of my short life span. Just clearing the air here to start. In other words, I have no agenda, just an opinion.

1. Historically, presidential impeachment inquiries have been preceded by a full house vote. No written rule, but certainly a precedent.

2. Past impeachment inquiries have been handled by the judiciary committee. My impression is the public hearings handled by Nadler turned into such a debacle that Pelosi pulled it from him and handed it to Schiff when the Ukraine thing came up.

3. Things that raise a red flag to me about this "inquiry" include (but not necessarily limited to):

a. The transcripts are kept private, and not just from the public. The Rs have to enter the SCIF to read one, while accompanied by a D staffer. That ain't normal. Have them in private if you want, but give both sides identical access, b/c you KNOW the Ds have better access.

b. The Ds have "subpoena power," but the Rs don't. That ain't right.

c. Trump has no right to counsel, or even to have a rep in the hearings. That ain't right.

d. The Rs haven't been allowed to call witnesses. That ain't right, either.

e. No shock, but pieces of testimony favorable to the Ds tend to leak out, yet the Rs have no official right to publicly counter or respond with other pieces of testimony, b/c Schiff set the rules to where the Rs are gagged.

I have a feeling a lot of indies like me look at this as I do, with a high degree of skepticism, even if we aren't Trump voters. That letter from Pelosi puts on a brave front, but if they do what she said with the changes, it puts a lie to their contention that the hearings have been fair to date.

End of brain dump. Say what you want, since I dared to put my thoughts out here, but I ain't debating. This is how I feel until I see something more from DC.

(10-29-2019 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm a real live independent. Never registered for a party, never voted a straight party ticket, have split my presidential votes evenly over the years between R, D and third party/write-ins (I can't recall all my other votes, since I've been voting since 1968).

I'm not getting in any back and forth with partisans on either side who always see things only one way, but I'll tell you what I think of this "impeachment inquiry" so far (a combo of facts as I understand them, plus my opinions):

I personally don't give a crap whether Trump is impeached or not. I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time. I will def not vote D, either. It's third party or write-in for me, probably for the rest of my short life span. Just clearing the air here to start. In other words, I have no agenda, just an opinion.

1. Historically, presidential impeachment inquiries have been preceded by a full house vote. No written rule, but certainly a precedent.

2. Past impeachment inquiries have been handled by the judiciary committee. My impression is the public hearings handled by Nadler turned into such a debacle that Pelosi pulled it from him and handed it to Schiff when the Ukraine thing came up.

3. Things that raise a red flag to me about this "inquiry" include (but not necessarily limited to):

a. The transcripts are kept private, and not just from the public. The Rs have to enter the SCIF to read one, while accompanied by a D staffer. That ain't normal. Have them in private if you want, but give both sides identical access, b/c you KNOW the Ds have better access.

b. The Ds have "subpoena power," but the Rs don't. That ain't right.

c. Trump has no right to counsel, or even to have a rep in the hearings. That ain't right.

d. The Rs haven't been allowed to call witnesses. That ain't right, either.

e. No shock, but pieces of testimony favorable to the Ds tend to leak out, yet the Rs have no official right to publicly counter or respond with other pieces of testimony, b/c Schiff set the rules to where the Rs are gagged.

I have a feeling a lot of indies like me look at this as I do, with a high degree of skepticism, even if we aren't Trump voters. That letter from Pelosi puts on a brave front, but if they do what she said with the changes, it puts a lie to their contention that the hearings have been fair to date.

End of brain dump. Say what you want, since I dared to put my thoughts out here, but I ain't debating. This is how I feel until I see something more from DC.

Excellent post

(10-29-2019 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm a real live independent. Never registered for a party, never voted a straight party ticket, have split my presidential votes evenly over the years between R, D and third party/write-ins (I can't recall all my other votes, since I've been voting since 1968).

I'm not getting in any back and forth with partisans on either side who always see things only one way, but I'll tell you what I think of this "impeachment inquiry" so far (a combo of facts as I understand them, plus my opinions).

I personally don't give a crap whether Trump is impeached or not. I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time. I will def not vote D, either. It's third party or write-in for me, probably for the rest of my short life span. Just clearing the air here to start. In other words, I have no agenda, just an opinion.

1. Historically, presidential impeachment inquiries have been preceded by a full house vote. No written rule, but certainly a precedent.

2. Past impeachment inquiries have been handled by the judiciary committee. My impression is the public hearings handled by Nadler turned into such a debacle that Pelosi pulled it from him and handed it to Schiff when the Ukraine thing came up.

3. Things that raise a red flag to me about this "inquiry" include (but not necessarily limited to):

a. The transcripts are kept private, and not just from the public. The Rs have to enter the SCIF to read one, while accompanied by a D staffer. That ain't normal. Have them in private if you want, but give both sides identical access, b/c you KNOW the Ds have better access.

b. The Ds have "subpoena power," but the Rs don't. That ain't right.

c. Trump has no right to counsel, or even to have a rep in the hearings. That ain't right.

d. The Rs haven't been allowed to call witnesses. That ain't right, either.

e. No shock, but pieces of testimony favorable to the Ds tend to leak out, yet the Rs have no official right to publicly counter or respond with other pieces of testimony, b/c Schiff set the rules to where the Rs are gagged.

I have a feeling a lot of indies like me look at this as I do, with a high degree of skepticism, even if we aren't Trump voters. That letter from Pelosi puts on a brave front, but if they do what she said with the changes, it puts a lie to their contention that the hearings have been fair to date.

End of brain dump. Say what you want, since I dared to put my thoughts out here, but I ain't debating. This is how I feel until I see something more from DC.

You pretty well covered the points I made and I made them not because I am a Trump supporter but because they violate due process, precedent, and because Schiffs actions are intended to obfuscate the truth. These matters aren't to be trifled with, ever. Because contained in them is the concept that what is just is blind to party, and all else, and that any of us has a right to face our accuser, and to present evidence on our behalf whether in court, or before the Congress.

What is happening is not the American way. It is alien and should be treated as such.

(10-29-2019 10:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-29-2019 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm a real live independent. Never registered for a party, never voted a straight party ticket, have split my presidential votes evenly over the years between R, D and third party/write-ins (I can't recall all my other votes, since I've been voting since 1968).

I'm not getting in any back and forth with partisans on either side who always see things only one way, but I'll tell you what I think of this "impeachment inquiry" so far (a combo of facts as I understand them, plus my opinions).

I personally don't give a crap whether Trump is impeached or not. I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time. I will def not vote D, either. It's third party or write-in for me, probably for the rest of my short life span. Just clearing the air here to start. In other words, I have no agenda, just an opinion.

1. Historically, presidential impeachment inquiries have been preceded by a full house vote. No written rule, but certainly a precedent.

2. Past impeachment inquiries have been handled by the judiciary committee. My impression is the public hearings handled by Nadler turned into such a debacle that Pelosi pulled it from him and handed it to Schiff when the Ukraine thing came up.

3. Things that raise a red flag to me about this "inquiry" include (but not necessarily limited to):

a. The transcripts are kept private, and not just from the public. The Rs have to enter the SCIF to read one, while accompanied by a D staffer. That ain't normal. Have them in private if you want, but give both sides identical access, b/c you KNOW the Ds have better access.

b. The Ds have "subpoena power," but the Rs don't. That ain't right.

c. Trump has no right to counsel, or even to have a rep in the hearings. That ain't right.

d. The Rs haven't been allowed to call witnesses. That ain't right, either.

e. No shock, but pieces of testimony favorable to the Ds tend to leak out, yet the Rs have no official right to publicly counter or respond with other pieces of testimony, b/c Schiff set the rules to where the Rs are gagged.

I have a feeling a lot of indies like me look at this as I do, with a high degree of skepticism, even if we aren't Trump voters. That letter from Pelosi puts on a brave front, but if they do what she said with the changes, it puts a lie to their contention that the hearings have been fair to date.

End of brain dump. Say what you want, since I dared to put my thoughts out here, but I ain't debating. This is how I feel until I see something more from DC.

You pretty well covered the points I made and I made them not because I am a Trump supporter but because they violate due process, precedent, and because Schiffs actions are intended to obfuscate the truth. These matters aren't to be trifled with, ever. Because contained in them is the concept that what is just is blind to party, and all else, and that any of us has a right to face our accuser, and to present evidence on our behalf whether in court, or before the Congress.

What is happening is not the American way. It is alien and should be treated as such.

Sorry, missed your post, but we agree.

(10-29-2019 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm a real live independent. Never registered for a party, never voted a straight party ticket, have split my presidential votes evenly over the years between R, D and third party/write-ins (I can't recall all my other votes, since I've been voting since 1968).

I'm not getting in any back and forth with partisans on either side who always see things only one way, but I'll tell you what I think of this "impeachment inquiry" so far (a combo of facts as I understand them, plus my opinions).

I personally don't give a crap whether Trump is impeached or not. I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time. I will def not vote D, either. It's third party or write-in for me, probably for the rest of my short life span. Just clearing the air here to start. In other words, I have no agenda, just an opinion.

1. Historically, presidential impeachment inquiries have been preceded by a full house vote. No written rule, but certainly a precedent.

2. Past impeachment inquiries have been handled by the judiciary committee. My impression is the public hearings handled by Nadler turned into such a debacle that Pelosi pulled it from him and handed it to Schiff when the Ukraine thing came up.

3. Things that raise a red flag to me about this "inquiry" include (but not necessarily limited to):

a. The transcripts are kept private, and not just from the public. The Rs have to enter the SCIF to read one, while accompanied by a D staffer. That ain't normal. Have them in private if you want, but give both sides identical access, b/c you KNOW the Ds have better access.

b. The Ds have "subpoena power," but the Rs don't. That ain't right.

c. Trump has no right to counsel, or even to have a rep in the hearings. That ain't right.

d. The Rs haven't been allowed to call witnesses. That ain't right, either.

e. No shock, but pieces of testimony favorable to the Ds tend to leak out, yet the Rs have no official right to publicly counter or respond with other pieces of testimony, b/c Schiff set the rules to where the Rs are gagged.

I have a feeling a lot of indies like me look at this as I do, with a high degree of skepticism, even if we aren't Trump voters. That letter from Pelosi puts on a brave front, but if they do what she said with the changes, it puts a lie to their contention that the hearings have been fair to date.

End of brain dump. Say what you want, since I dared to put my thoughts out here, but I ain't debating. This is how I feel until I see something more from DC.

Boom.

And that's why Nancy wants to hold the vote.. The language will be written in a way that if it passes the "investigation" keeps the current status quo, if it fails, she has to run the investigation correctly and not one sided.

(10-29-2019 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I'm a real live independent. Never registered for a party, never voted a straight party ticket, have split my presidential votes evenly over the years between R, D and third party/write-ins (I can't recall all my other votes, since I've been voting since 1968).

I'm not getting in any back and forth with partisans on either side who always see things only one way, but I'll tell you what I think of this "impeachment inquiry" so far (a combo of facts as I understand them, plus my opinions).

I personally don't give a crap whether Trump is impeached or not. I didn't vote for him last time, and won't this time. I will def not vote D, either. It's third party or write-in for me, probably for the rest of my short life span. Just clearing the air here to start. In other words, I have no agenda, just an opinion.

1. Historically, presidential impeachment inquiries have been preceded by a full house vote. No written rule, but certainly a precedent.

2. Past impeachment inquiries have been handled by the judiciary committee. My impression is the public hearings handled by Nadler turned into such a debacle that Pelosi pulled it from him and handed it to Schiff when the Ukraine thing came up.

3. Things that raise a red flag to me about this "inquiry" include (but not necessarily limited to):

a. The transcripts are kept private, and not just from the public. The Rs have to enter the SCIF to read one, while accompanied by a D staffer. That ain't normal. Have them in private if you want, but give both sides identical access, b/c you KNOW the Ds have better access.

b. The Ds have "subpoena power," but the Rs don't. That ain't right.

c. Trump has no right to counsel, or even to have a rep in the hearings. That ain't right.

d. The Rs haven't been allowed to call witnesses. That ain't right, either.

e. No shock, but pieces of testimony favorable to the Ds tend to leak out, yet the Rs have no official right to publicly counter or respond with other pieces of testimony, b/c Schiff set the rules to where the Rs are gagged.

I have a feeling a lot of indies like me look at this as I do, with a high degree of skepticism, even if we aren't Trump voters. That letter from Pelosi puts on a brave front, but if they do what she said with the changes, it puts a lie to their contention that the hearings have been fair to date.

End of brain dump. Say what you want, since I dared to put my thoughts out here, but I ain't debating. This is how I feel until I see something more from DC.

I don't know how anyone with a clue would view it differently.....

#wellDone!

disclaimer: I'm voting for DJT....I'm not in a swing state and will do it to simply 'pile on'....