If the players should get paid, then where does it stop? Should high school get paid? What about little league? Should all athletes get paid?

These kids get a free education that is worth upwards to $50k a year in many cases. Free lodging. Free food. Free books.

All of those points above, and the inability to be able to answer those questions are why it won’t happen. The NBA G league is the closest we are going to get to these kids getting paid. It will most likely resemble a euro league within 20 years. Once a minor league system is set up like baseball.

The stage is being set for the NFL as well. That’s why the NFL is supporting the AAF. If the AAF succeeds, kiss college football good nite.

Then we’ll see if everyone is so happy that these players are getting paid, when their favorite college program doesn’t exist, and we’ll see the long term ramifications of failed uneducated G league careers.

I spent 4 years in the military and made around $30k a year and got $30k for college. And to be honest, I was ecstatic as an 18 year old kid to get that. That financial jump start to my career propelled me to an eventual 6 figure career. When you look at what these kids are getting, it’s far more than what I got.

If high school kids created billions of dollars of value they should get paid too. Maybe its just the free market warrior in me but I prefer that people be allowed to get the money that they help create.

(03-08-2019 10:32 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  If high school kids created billions of dollars of value they should get paid too. Maybe its just the free market warrior in me but I prefer that people be allowed to get the money that they help create.

That's the issue. Way back when...when I was a youngster...coaches made a decent living, tickets to games were cheap, hardly ever was college basketball on TV and student athletes (almost all really were students at the time and many still are) got a free VIP ride to a degree. Cable came along, ESPN came along, money started flowing in and college athletics went from a reasonably fair, mundane endeavor to a multimillion dollar industry, now in the billions.

Coaches are now wealthy beyond our comprehension (we just fired one and handed him $9,000,000 to walk away), schools make and have to spend millions, an entire industry worth billions is now what college basketball and football have become. Everybody involved has become wealthy, except the players...the whole reason we watch...they haven't gotten an over-the-table raise since 1980.

There has to be something that can be done. What about a D1 money pool, some percentage of the take goes in each season, then all players get paid equally over time after their college career is over? Like a pension or social security payment? They can get paid for the time they put in, like royalties in the music industry.

The main reason is that college students will lose their amateur status and the "college" institutions will no longer be able to claim non profit status for sports revenue if they begin legitimate payments. It's not accurate to say these players aren't getting paid..it's just under the table.

(03-08-2019 10:47 AM)cmt Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 10:32 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  If high school kids created billions of dollars of value they should get paid too. Maybe its just the free market warrior in me but I prefer that people be allowed to get the money that they help create.

That's the issue. Way back when...when I was a youngster...coaches made a decent living, tickets to games were cheap, hardly ever was college basketball on TV and student athletes (almost all really were students at the time and many still are) got a free VIP rise to a degree. Cable came along, ESPN came along, money started flowing in and college athletics went from a reasonably fair, mundane endeavor to a multimillion dollar industry, now in the billions.

Coaches are now wealthy beyond our comprehension (we just fired one and handed him $9,000,000 to walk away), schools make and have to spend millions, an entire industry worth billions is now what college basketball and football have become. Everybody involved has become wealthy, except the players...the whole reason we watch...they haven't gotten an over-the-table raise since 1980.

There has to be something that can be done. What about a D1 money pool, some percentage of the take goes in each season, then all players get paid equally over time after their college career is over? Like a pension or social security payment? They can get paid for the time they put in, like royalties in the music industry.

Yup.

There is no logical way you can rationalize Nick Saban getting 10 million a year and his players getting $30k in in-kind payment.

If you really think Nick Saban is really worth that much more than the players then lets see what Nick Saban can do with Division 3 level players. Lets see if he's still worth that 10 million halfway into a 12 loss season.

You create that revenue by winning and you win by having the best players. Those players should be allowed to fairly share in the revenue they create by using their superior skills.

(03-08-2019 10:51 AM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  The main reason is that college students will lose their amateur status and the "college" institutions will no longer be able to claim non profit status for sports revenue if they begin legitimate payments. It's not accurate to say these players aren't getting paid..it's just under the table.

We could have a very long conversation about why institutions of higher learning shouldnt be in the high revenue entertainment industry.

This is stupid. I am for NCAA maintaining amateur status. But your logic is like swiss cheese, full of holes.

It stops where the money stops. There is money in college hoops. Hence why people think all (including players) should be reimbursed. This isn't a slippery slope that ends in paying children. That's ridiculous. The only people paying to see them play are their families. No funds to spread around. Silly. Remove this from your argument. It makes others who share your viewpoint lose ground.

You started to touch on something: getting paid to play is already available. Numerous leagues pay players. Leagues overseas are available as well as the G league. Players do not have to go to college. Students do. No degree comes from the money leagues. No money comes from the degree league (college). Don't muddy the waters. Keep them separated. There isn't one path right for everyone.

Thanks for your service. Not sure how it relates. In fact, you argue against offering money and education to collegiate student athletes. Then you state how you got both $$ and college in one deal and appreciated it.

Whether you're for or against paying collegiate student athletes, please use sound logic. This is actually a very fun debate topic. Thanks for initiating it. I always love hearing the opinions. Though I tend to be against paying college players there is definitely an argument for it. Getting the payments out in the open helps to remove shady backdoor deals and takes away the shady backdoor people.

(03-08-2019 10:26 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  If the players should get paid, then where does it stop? Should high school get paid? What about little league? Should all athletes get paid?

These kids get a free education that is worth upwards to $50k a year in many cases. Free lodging. Free food. Free books.

All of those points above, and the inability to be able to answer those questions are why it won’t happen. The NBA G league is the closest we are going to get to these kids getting paid. It will most likely resemble a euro league within 20 years. Once a minor league system is set up like baseball.

The stage is being set for the NFL as well. That’s why the NFL is supporting the AAF. If the AAF succeeds, kiss college football good nite.

Then we’ll see if everyone is so happy that these players are getting paid, when their favorite college program doesn’t exist, and we’ll see the long term ramifications of failed uneducated G league careers.

I spent 4 years in the military and made around $30k a year and got $30k for college. And to be honest, I was ecstatic as an 18 year old kid to get that. That financial jump start to my career propelled me to an eventual 6 figure career. When you look at what these kids are getting, it’s far more than what I got.

First off, they are given nothing "free". All is on condition of remaining a scholarship eligible athlete - that isn't free.

Second, most of the $50K/yr in COA is administrative bloat - I'm not making this up, research has shown cost of admin functions at universities skyrocketing while cost to direct educational expenses has grown much slower. What that means is that in this situation price does not equal "value".

Third, if high school coaches and ADs started making millions of dollars and selling high value media rights to high school games then yeah they should be paid. The producers of the product should share in the value, this isn't a really difficult concept to grasp - it's the exact reason why Pro player unions negotiate around share of league revenue for players and not specific salaries.

(03-08-2019 10:53 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 10:51 AM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  The main reason is that college students will lose their amateur status and the "college" institutions will no longer be able to claim non profit status for sports revenue if they begin legitimate payments. It's not accurate to say these players aren't getting paid..it's just under the table.

We could have a very long conversation about why institutions of higher learning shouldnt be in the high revenue entertainment industry.

Yep - there is no reason managing media rights should be a nonprofit activity related to the education mission of universities. There are a million legal structures that would allow universities to accept licensing payments from it's athletic department, pay players and maintain non-profit status. Title IX is probably the trickiest thing they would have to navigate but not so tricky that it couldn't be figured out.

The problem with "under the table" payment is that it always sets up the athlete for exploitation - same as private employers who attention to have under the table employees, legal protections were put in place for a reason.

(03-08-2019 11:14 AM)tkgrrett Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 10:53 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 10:51 AM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  The main reason is that college students will lose their amateur status and the "college" institutions will no longer be able to claim non profit status for sports revenue if they begin legitimate payments. It's not accurate to say these players aren't getting paid..it's just under the table.

We could have a very long conversation about why institutions of higher learning shouldnt be in the high revenue entertainment industry.

Yep - there is no reason managing media rights should be a nonprofit activity related to the education mission of universities. There are a million legal structures that would allow universities to accept licensing payments from it's athletic department, pay players and maintain non-profit status. Title IX is probably the trickiest thing they would have to navigate but not so tricky that it couldn't be figured out.

The problem with "under the table" payment is that it always sets up the athlete for exploitation - same as private employers who attention to have under the table employees, legal protections were put in place for a reason.

yes yes yes.

Agree. No pay for college players. They get an education for free. They are already held in higher esteem than the rest of the students. Paying them would just make things worse.

My issue with some of the values of education, it isn't the same as it was 25+ years ago...

If you graduated college in the 70's (barring being a complete screwup and making the worst possible choices) your future was pretty much solidified.

A college education now is basically equivalent to a high school diploma from the 70s.

(03-08-2019 12:05 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  Agree. No pay for college players. They get an education for free. They are already held in higher esteem than the rest of the students. Paying them would just make things worse.

But it's ok for the school and ncaa to make millions off of them? To me that doesn't seem fair.

(03-08-2019 12:05 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  Agree. No pay for college players. They get an education for free. They are already held in higher esteem than the rest of the students. Paying them would just make things worse.

Again.. how are they getting anything for "free"? They are required to meet eligibility requirements and get a scholarship renewal to get that education - that isn't free, when you must do something to get something thats called compensation.

If that's the case, the argument is about how much they get compensated - I think most people in favor of them getting paid sau the current in-kind compensation isn't nearly enough.

If college athletes are paid then all college athletes will have to be paid and scholarships will be cut, sports will be cut, programs will be cut, and only a handful of programs will remain.

(03-08-2019 12:05 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  Agree. No pay for college players. They get an education for free. They are already held in higher esteem than the rest of the students. Paying them would just make things worse.

When I started college, friends who went straight to UofM from HS that made great scores on their ACT were given a full scholarship AND a stipend check to spend on books, food plan, whatever.

We joked that they were getting paid to attend school...what makes this any different from those students? They're excelling at something, and therefore are in demand for universities. At least in the case of athletes, they're actually making money for the university while they're there.

There will be payment for at least some college athletes, a monthly stipend probably. It's inevitable.

Question is who gets it - just the revenue producing sports like football and men's hoops, or all scholarship athletes? The Rice Commission recommended players get paid for their image and likeness last year, but NCAA hasn't moved yet.

For football, NCAA really doesn't have much to do with it anymore. The conferences negotiate their own TV deals, and run the College Football Playoff system. The Big 10 and Pac 12 have been pretty adamant that they don't want to pay players. The other P5s have said they are open to it.

(03-08-2019 12:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  If college athletes are paid then all college athletes will have to be paid and scholarships will be cut, sports will be cut, programs will be cut, and only a handful of programs will remain.

Yeah, but like the post above was saying... If you are a top student, you get compensated for it, where as an average student does not. If you are on the curling team, then sorry, should have picked a more profitable sport.

(03-08-2019 12:33 PM)Tigx Wrote:  There will be payment for at least some college athletes, a monthly stipend probably. It's inevitable.

Question is who gets it - just the revenue producing sports like football and men's hoops, or all scholarship athletes? The Rice Commission recommended players get paid for their image and likeness last year, but NCAA hasn't moved yet.

For football, NCAA really doesn't have much to do with it anymore. The conferences negotiate their own TV deals, and run the College Football Playoff system. The Big 10 and Pac 12 have been pretty adamant that they don't want to pay players. The other P5s have said they are open to it.

There already is a monthly stipend the players are paid...

It comes from the total cost of attendance calculation...If I remember correctly our players get paid more than Alabamas.

(03-08-2019 12:34 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 12:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  If college athletes are paid then all college athletes will have to be paid and scholarships will be cut, sports will be cut, programs will be cut, and only a handful of programs will remain.

Yeah, but like the post above was saying... If you are a top student, you get compensated for it, where as an average student does not. If you are on the curling team, then sorry, should have picked a more profitable sport.

Title 9 doesn’t work that way.
If you need to be paid, go d-league, NBA or AAF. Top athletes get athletic scholarships... top academics get academic scholarships.