(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:02 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 02:41 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 01:44 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  No college athlete should ever be paid. If they want to profit off of their likeness, they can do so in one of the many amateur and pro leagues.

Again so it's ok for the school/ncaa to make money of their likeness? How is that fair.

Are you serious? If they skip the NCAA and go the pro route, no one makes money off of their likeness except them. If you decide to go the amateur route and go to college, you know know what you are signing away. Every kid has this option and its not like people are forcing them to go to college.

High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:02 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 02:41 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 01:44 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  No college athlete should ever be paid. If they want to profit off of their likeness, they can do so in one of the many amateur and pro leagues.

Again so it's ok for the school/ncaa to make money of their likeness? How is that fair.

Are you serious? If they skip the NCAA and go the pro route, no one makes money off of their likeness except them. If you decide to go the amateur route and go to college, you know know what you are signing away. Every kid has this option and its not like people are forcing them to go to college.

High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:02 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 02:41 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  Again so it's ok for the school/ncaa to make money of their likeness? How is that fair.

Are you serious? If they skip the NCAA and go the pro route, no one makes money off of their likeness except them. If you decide to go the amateur route and go to college, you know know what you are signing away. Every kid has this option and its not like people are forcing them to go to college.

High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

(03-08-2019 05:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:02 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Are you serious? If they skip the NCAA and go the pro route, no one makes money off of their likeness except them. If you decide to go the amateur route and go to college, you know know what you are signing away. Every kid has this option and its not like people are forcing them to go to college.

High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

CFL is an even more ridiculous option, as you know. Why should an 18 year old have to leave his country to find work in his chosen career field? And please tell us the long list of high school players who have gone to the CFL.

The NCAA isn't paying for anything. The schools and the conferences that make the money will pay their own student athletes a stipend. It's not near as hard as you are trying to make it.

Dude, it's not the 1950s anymore.

(03-08-2019 05:43 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

CFL is an even more ridiculous option, as you know. Why should an 18 year old have to leave his country to find work in his chosen career field? And please tell us the long list of high school players who have gone to the CFL.

The NCAA isn't paying for anything. The schools and the conferences that make the money will pay their own student athletes a stipend. It's not near as hard as you are trying to make it.

Dude, it's not the 1950s anymore.

Do you not see the fatal flaw in your argument? No one is forcing the kids to go to college. It is 100% voluntary. They are making the conscious decision to forgo pro options and money to go to a non-profit organization where their skills will be marketed better than any pro option. The only argument that can be made where the kids get screwed is in the age limits placed on them by the NBA and NFL.

Who cares if coaches are making wild amounts of money? Athletic programs are marketing wings of non-profit universities.

The biggest issue remains controlling payments so the big schools cannot simply pay more or have their donors pay more for the "likeness" of recruits. It creates massive issues for all schools outside of 30-40. So, cap them all at the same amount, right? Now we are right back where we started where dirty coaches are going to be willing to pay under the table to try and land recruits.

There are a couple of issues at hand. Paying players solves absolutely zero problems? You can argue the morality or how deserving players are or are not. But that is the wrong conversation. What problem is solved by paying players or letting them get paid for their likeness? None. However, there are a host of potential problems that come with paying them and especially by letting them get paid for their likeness. That is issue number one, there is currently no real incentive to pay them because it solves no problems and likely creates more.

What really needs to happen is cooperation between the NCAA and the NBA and NFL. Right now, there appears to be very little cooperation between the leagues to solve the problem. The real answer is a true minor league system. Once that happens and is a truly viable option for top recruits then the issue of paying players more or less goes away. They will get scholarships, small stipends and the other benefits that come along with being a college athlete. The others will be able to opt for the minor league system and make money right away.

I am in favor of the NCAA baseball system for all sports. Players choose the minor leagues, JUCO or 3 years of college. I believe that with a truly viable minor league system and recruits choosing between 2 or 3 years in college or minor league ball the vast majority of this would be solved.

(03-08-2019 05:43 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

CFL is an even more ridiculous option, as you know. Why should an 18 year old have to leave his country to find work in his chosen career field? And please tell us the long list of high school players who have gone to the CFL.

The NCAA isn't paying for anything. The schools and the conferences that make the money will pay their own student athletes a stipend. It's not near as hard as you are trying to make it.

Dude, it's not the 1950s anymore.

While I tend to agree that players should get paid, he is right it is not the NCAAs fault they cannot earn a living.

The NFL\NBA is enriching the NCAA by forcing talent into their system.

The NBA is trying to take more control of the pipeline of talent but the NFL has no desire to change.

(03-08-2019 06:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:43 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

CFL is an even more ridiculous option, as you know. Why should an 18 year old have to leave his country to find work in his chosen career field? And please tell us the long list of high school players who have gone to the CFL.

The NCAA isn't paying for anything. The schools and the conferences that make the money will pay their own student athletes a stipend. It's not near as hard as you are trying to make it.

Dude, it's not the 1950s anymore.

While I tend to agree that players should get paid, he is right it is not the NCAAs fault they cannot earn a living.

The NFL\NBA is enriching the NCAA by forcing talent into their system.

The NBA is trying to take more control of the pipeline of talent but the NFL has no desire to change.

I agree. But telling 18 year olds to take the NFL to court is a bit silly, no?

It's really not a money issue. There is plenty to go around. Just more will go the players, and a little less to coaches and staffs and administrators and facilities. Alabama announced a 10 year, $600M athletic facilities plan last fall. After all the facilities they have already completed in the last decade. Does anyone really think that is necessary?

(03-08-2019 06:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 06:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:43 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

CFL is an even more ridiculous option, as you know. Why should an 18 year old have to leave his country to find work in his chosen career field? And please tell us the long list of high school players who have gone to the CFL.

The NCAA isn't paying for anything. The schools and the conferences that make the money will pay their own student athletes a stipend. It's not near as hard as you are trying to make it.

Dude, it's not the 1950s anymore.

While I tend to agree that players should get paid, he is right it is not the NCAAs fault they cannot earn a living.

The NFL\NBA is enriching the NCAA by forcing talent into their system.

The NBA is trying to take more control of the pipeline of talent but the NFL has no desire to change.

I agree. But telling 18 year olds to take the NFL to court is a bit silly, no?

It's really not a money issue. There is plenty to go around. Just more will go the players, and a little less to coaches and staffs and administrators and facilities. Alabama announced a 10 year, $600M athletic facilities plan last fall. After all the facilities they have already completed in the last decade. Does anyone really think that is necessary?

Oh they are swimming in the money...I agree.

I believe there are two issues the NCAA has...

One is corruption as always...

The second is competition...If you allow a school to set the salary smaller schools would be even in a worse situation than they are now.

Kids would have less of a problem riding the pine for two years if they are getting 10k a year more from school A than school B.

Macgar, that is the exact point that should concern us, imo. I think the stipend will be set by conference, not by school. But what if the SEC agrees to pay their athletes in hoops and football $2K per month, and the AAC decides to pay them $1K per month? Would create an even bigger advantage for the P5s.

(03-08-2019 10:26 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  If the players should get paid, then where does it stop? Should high school get paid? What about little league? Should all athletes get paid?

These kids get a free education that is worth upwards to $50k a year in many cases. Free lodging. Free food. Free books.

All of those points above, and the inability to be able to answer those questions are why it won’t happen. The NBA G league is the closest we are going to get to these kids getting paid. It will most likely resemble a euro league within 20 years. Once a minor league system is set up like baseball.

The stage is being set for the NFL as well. That’s why the NFL is supporting the AAF. If the AAF succeeds, kiss college football good nite.

Then we’ll see if everyone is so happy that these players are getting paid, when their favorite college program doesn’t exist, and we’ll see the long term ramifications of failed uneducated G league careers.

I spent 4 years in the military and made around $30k a year and got $30k for college. And to be honest, I was ecstatic as an 18 year old kid to get that. That financial jump start to my career propelled me to an eventual 6 figure career. When you look at what these kids are getting, it’s far more than what I got.

I literally just twisted my ankle rolling down your slippery slope. I don't even necessarily disagree with your overall position, but your argument sucks.

These kids do not have to play college ball. They can go overseas. They can play in developmental leagues. They can sit out a year, if need be.

Paying players will ruin college sports and force schools to eliminate programs that allow other student athletes to go to college.


Most pros will say their college days were far more enjoyable than the grind of professional sports... there is no sense tainting college athletics with payrolls & bonus'.

(03-08-2019 02:03 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  If nothing changes then there will come a time in the not so distant future where college sports as we know it will go away. And if they are unwilling to change then they should go away.

Agree 100%. It's stupid that major public universities are running, essentially, professional basketball and football sports leagues that are competitive with NBA and NFL.

The mission of universities is education, not athletics.

(03-08-2019 06:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 06:08 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 06:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:43 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Ok go ahead and ignore the CFL which completely fulfills my point. You want to make the NCAA pay for the NBA/NFL's sins. How is that fair?

Athletes go the college route because the NCAA is the best marketing firm for their talents despite being able to earn money elsewhere. The NCAA doesn't owe a single player anything and neither do the schools. They made their choice when they signed scholarship papers. No one held a gun to their heads.

CFL is an even more ridiculous option, as you know. Why should an 18 year old have to leave his country to find work in his chosen career field? And please tell us the long list of high school players who have gone to the CFL.

The NCAA isn't paying for anything. The schools and the conferences that make the money will pay their own student athletes a stipend. It's not near as hard as you are trying to make it.

Dude, it's not the 1950s anymore.

While I tend to agree that players should get paid, he is right it is not the NCAAs fault they cannot earn a living.

The NFL\NBA is enriching the NCAA by forcing talent into their system.

The NBA is trying to take more control of the pipeline of talent but the NFL has no desire to change.

I agree. But telling 18 year olds to take the NFL to court is a bit silly, no?

It's really not a money issue. There is plenty to go around. Just more will go the players, and a little less to coaches and staffs and administrators and facilities. Alabama announced a 10 year, $600M athletic facilities plan last fall. After all the facilities they have already completed in the last decade. Does anyone really think that is necessary?

Oh they are swimming in the money...I agree.

I believe there are two issues the NCAA has...

One is corruption as always...

The second is competition...If you allow a school to set the salary smaller schools would be even in a worse situation than they are now.

Kids would have less of a problem riding the pine for two years if they are getting 10k a year more from school A than school B.

The problem here, as everywhere, is that you are arguing about how it ruins a system that is ridiculous. There's nowhere else in the world that has these large revenue generating amateur athletic school leagues. It's not because it's such a good idea.

(03-08-2019 05:59 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  The biggest issue remains controlling payments so the big schools cannot simply pay more or have their donors pay more for the "likeness" of recruits. It creates massive issues for all schools outside of 30-40. So, cap them all at the same amount, right? Now we are right back where we started where dirty coaches are going to be willing to pay under the table to try and land recruits.

There are a couple of issues at hand. Paying players solves absolutely zero problems? You can argue the morality or how deserving players are or are not. But that is the wrong conversation. What problem is solved by paying players or letting them get paid for their likeness? None. However, there are a host of potential problems that come with paying them and especially by letting them get paid for their likeness. That is issue number one, there is currently no real incentive to pay them because it solves no problems and likely creates more.

What really needs to happen is cooperation between the NCAA and the NBA and NFL. Right now, there appears to be very little cooperation between the leagues to solve the problem. The real answer is a true minor league system. Once that happens and is a truly viable option for top recruits then the issue of paying players more or less goes away. They will get scholarships, small stipends and the other benefits that come along with being a college athlete. The others will be able to opt for the minor league system and make money right away.

I am in favor of the NCAA baseball system for all sports. Players choose the minor leagues, JUCO or 3 years of college. I believe that with a truly viable minor league system and recruits choosing between 2 or 3 years in college or minor league ball the vast majority of this would be solved.

Ideally, the solution would be to model our sports leagues after European soccer leagues with a top flight and then successive lower flights with promotion and relegation and divorce the entire thing from colleges. Just stick a team called the Alabama crimson tide in tuscaloosa and let all the fans buy tickets and support the team and they can get to play the Patriots.

(03-08-2019 05:30 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:18 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:04 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 05:02 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 02:41 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  Again so it's ok for the school/ncaa to make money of their likeness? How is that fair.

Are you serious? If they skip the NCAA and go the pro route, no one makes money off of their likeness except them. If you decide to go the amateur route and go to college, you know know what you are signing away. Every kid has this option and its not like people are forcing them to go to college.

High school football players are not eligible for the NFL draft until the draft 3 years after their HS class's graduation. Where do these kids have the option to play?

High school players are eligible to play in the CFL and XFL right out of high school. That doesn't matter however because that is the wrong argument. The NBA and NFL are who enforce the age restriction, not the NCAA. If they want to take someone to court, it should be the pro leagues.

To a HS athlete, it's still an age restriction, doesn't matter who enforces it.

The XFL? You mean that league that has played one season in its history? You are really reaching now.

The lengths you will go to deny paying college athletes a simple monthly stipend, when the schools are paying the head coaches millions.

XFL resumes operation in 2020.

They at least should be able to profit of their image.

(03-09-2019 08:04 AM)Crazier Wrote:  They at least should be able to profit of their image.

But again you are missing the point for the NCAA.

What problem does this solve for the NCAA or NFL? None!

However, it can create massive problems. How do you prevent Ohio State, Alabama, Florida State, Notre Dame, etc. from paying much more for the "image" or "likeness" of a recruit/player?

Put a cap on it, you say. But now we are right back to where we started where schools and boosters will simply continue paying more under the table to incentive recruits to come to their school.

Paying players is an answer and solution for the college kids but not for the universities or NCAA at large or the professional leagues for that matter.

(03-09-2019 12:36 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 02:03 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  If nothing changes then there will come a time in the not so distant future where college sports as we know it will go away. And if they are unwilling to change then they should go away.

Agree 100%. It's stupid that major public universities are running, essentially, professional basketball and football sports leagues that are competitive with NBA and NFL.

The mission of universities is education, not athletics.

yup. The fact non profit universities run major sports franchises is just a fluke of history. It isnt this way anywhere else in the world. And, honestly, the rest of the world has it right in this one regard.

(03-09-2019 08:40 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-09-2019 12:36 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(03-08-2019 02:03 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  If nothing changes then there will come a time in the not so distant future where college sports as we know it will go away. And if they are unwilling to change then they should go away.

Agree 100%. It's stupid that major public universities are running, essentially, professional basketball and football sports leagues that are competitive with NBA and NFL.

The mission of universities is education, not athletics.

yup. The fact non profit universities run major sports franchises is just a fluke of history. It isnt this way anywhere else in the world. And, honestly, the rest of the world has it right in this one regard.

No one I speak to from other countries understands this. I play volleyball with a bunch of international types (Brooklyn is a very mixed bag of nationalities) and no one gets why we watch college sports.

Basically, every one else treats university athletics like we treat D3 sports...