Penny is implementing a system and style of play that Tubby's recruits aren't capable of playing. The players that are capable, are Freshman and inconsistent. That's how this season is going to go. Get used to it. The positive results of what Penny is doing now won't be seen until next year and beyond.

(01-11-2019 11:25 AM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  Penny and staff are "getting blood from a turnip" with this roster. Penny is upset not because the roster isn't as talented as a Memphis roster should be, he knew that going in. He's upset because the players don't go hard on every play. They think they are better than they are, so the effort wanes during the course of a game. He was really upset because he benched more talented freshman for loafing in practice, but the seniors came out loafing in the game. You gotta get more from the seniors than that. As he said, they haven't accomplished anything, and they get this opportunity to start and lead this team and they come out flat? Unacceptable! The roster lacks talent and leadership. The only way you can make up for the lack of talent is effort, which doesn't require talent at all, just heart. It is heart that truly makes Memphis basketball. I think as the freshman become humbled and get experience and the seniors begin to realize these are their last games, we'll see the effort improve. Penny is doing a great job coaching, but coaching will only take you so far. Players have to execute and produce.

Very well stated.

(01-11-2019 11:25 AM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  Penny and staff are "getting blood from a turnip" with this roster. Penny is upset not because the roster isn't as talented as a Memphis roster should be, he knew that going in. He's upset because the players don't go hard on every play. They think they are better than they are, so the effort wanes during the course of a game. He was really upset because he benched more talented freshman for loafing in practice, but the seniors came out loafing in the game. You gotta get more from the seniors than that. As he said, they haven't accomplished anything, and they get this opportunity to start and lead this team and they come out flat? Unacceptable! The roster lacks talent and leadership. The only way you can make up for the lack of talent is effort, which doesn't require talent at all, just heart. It is heart that truly makes Memphis basketball. I think as the freshman become humbled and get experience and the seniors begin to realize these are their last games, we'll see the effort improve. Penny is doing a great job coaching, but coaching will only take you so far. Players have to execute and produce.

Great post. Cal used to say things like this all the time but was lauded for calling players out. Penny doesn't use the venom that Cal did. Penny is worried about effort. Defense is mostly effort. I love this quote from Jeremiah.

I think it's amazing that Penny is not waiting till next year. Even Keelon on the radio said Tubby didn't coach much his 1st year when his sons were there until after Christmas when "he realized that he had a good squad." By that time he was trying to coach to correct habits when the players were thinking they had success with his hands off approach. Tubby was waiting to get his players in to go to work like he wanted because he was going to do it his way. I applaud Penny for trying a different approach so that he can get the most out of this team.

That play going into the half (or the management of his personnel) was conspicuous and awkward but was executed to perfection.

(01-11-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Penny has complained about effort and defensive mistakes all year long...

He says they (the coaching staff) needs to get better at getting the guys prepared. He admits that the players are not where they need to be.

Thank you. That's what I'm saying. These mistakes are a result of coaches not impressing upon their players the importance of fundamentals.

(01-11-2019 12:22 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Penny has complained about effort and defensive mistakes all year long...

He says they (the coaching staff) needs to get better at getting the guys prepared. He admits that the players are not where they need to be.

Thank you. That's what I'm saying. These mistakes are a result of coaches not impressing upon their players the importance of fundamentals.

nonsense

weak attempt at trying to walk back your O.P.

(01-11-2019 11:25 AM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  Penny and staff are "getting blood from a turnip" with this roster. Penny is upset not because the roster isn't as talented as a Memphis roster should be, he knew that going in. He's upset because the players don't go hard on every play. They think they are better than they are, so the effort wanes during the course of a game. He was really upset because he benched more talented freshman for loafing in practice, but the seniors came out loafing in the game. You gotta get more from the seniors than that. As he said, they haven't accomplished anything, and they get this opportunity to start and lead this team and they come out flat? Unacceptable! The roster lacks talent and leadership. The only way you can make up for the lack of talent is effort, which doesn't require talent at all, just heart. It is heart that truly makes Memphis basketball. I think as the freshman become humbled and get experience and the seniors begin to realize these are their last games, we'll see the effort improve. Penny is doing a great job coaching, but coaching will only take you so far. Players have to execute and produce.

I agree. The effort issue is confirmed by the offensive rebound negative margin of 13 to ECU - a team with much less talent than us.

(01-11-2019 11:25 AM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  Penny and staff are "getting blood from a turnip" with this roster. Penny is upset not because the roster isn't as talented as a Memphis roster should be, he knew that going in. He's upset because the players don't go hard on every play. They think they are better than they are, so the effort wanes during the course of a game. He was really upset because he benched more talented freshman for loafing in practice, but the seniors came out loafing in the game. You gotta get more from the seniors than that. As he said, they haven't accomplished anything, and they get this opportunity to start and lead this team and they come out flat? Unacceptable! The roster lacks talent and leadership. The only way you can make up for the lack of talent is effort, which doesn't require talent at all, just heart. It is heart that truly makes Memphis basketball. I think as the freshman become humbled and get experience and the seniors begin to realize these are their last games, we'll see the effort improve. Penny is doing a great job coaching, but coaching will only take you so far. Players have to execute and produce.

This is spot on, IMO.

Our seniors have been coached by people who were okay with less than 100% every single time, and it shows. Our freshmen are used to being able to have just about every game (in their HS careers) be a cake walk, and it shows.

Penny is trying to get both groups to see the importance of 100% effort for 100% of the time. The freshmen will get it....but will the seniors? It depends on how important any type of post-season appearance is to them.

(01-11-2019 12:22 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Penny has complained about effort and defensive mistakes all year long...

He says they (the coaching staff) needs to get better at getting the guys prepared. He admits that the players are not where they need to be.

Thank you. That's what I'm saying. These mistakes are a result of coaches not impressing upon their players the importance of fundamentals.

Go watch the post game presser from last night. That isn't what's happening. Kids have to LISTEN and DO.

(01-11-2019 12:21 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 11:20 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Is not showing me he is a good coach. I hope he improves, but we've got players who don't know how to call a timeout, players running into screens because there is no communication on defense, inbounds passes caroming off of the back shoulders of the intended target. No discipline. And a serious lack of a half-court offence. I get we want to play "run-n-gun", and I love it! But when we can't because the other team takes that away, we HAVE TO HAVE a serviceable offensive set or two.

Like I said, I hope he improves.

I feel exactly the opposite. I think the staff is doing a very good job. My only beef is the minutes Thornton gets.

Thornton has been a real head scratcher. He had a nice finish to the season last year and has been horrible in every aspect this year.

(01-11-2019 10:59 AM)founder20 Wrote:  Our defense will be stifling next year. We will go from one of the smallest teams in the league this year to perhaps the biggest next year. I expect our starting lineup to be something along the lines of Alo/Harris at point, then Jones, DJ, Thomas, and Wiseman. That's a lot of length at 4 out of 5 positions, and that's even without adding anybody else. Slide Jones to the point and add in Watford and it's absurd.

I understand the frustration with defense this year, but I don't think there is really a fix for it. We have no inside presence on the roster. But it doesn't concern me long term because it completely changes next year.

Teams that depend on a lot of freshmen rarely have great defenses; a combination of young players not understanding the effort required, not having played together enough to be cohesive, and taking time to learn how to play.

At a minimum it should be better because we will have much better athletes. We will have to wait and see beyond that.

(01-11-2019 11:23 AM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:00 AM)tigernole79 Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 11:20 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Is not showing me he is a good coach. I hope he improves, but we've got players who don't know how to call a timeout, players running into screens because there is no communication on defense, inbounds passes caroming off of the back shoulders of the intended target. No discipline. And a serious lack of a half-court offence. I get we want to play "run-n-gun", and I love it! But when we can't because the other team takes that away, we HAVE TO HAVE a serviceable offensive set or two.

Like I said, I hope he improves.

Honestly compare this team to last season's team. Do you think any of those things have gotten better or worse?! Now, are you really adding major all-stars that are dominating from day one, didn't lose a major amount of anything from last season and then remember you are comparing a first year NCAA coach to a likely HOF coach with decades of experience.

Not even including anything about fan support, recruiting or future players (because then it's a landslide) which team do you honestly think is playing better: This year's team or last year's?

This year's team is actually watchable and capable of coming back from double digit deficits and winning. 4 of 6 losses are to ranked teams. 2 other losses were in the 1st 6 games when this team was just starting to learn to play together.

I've seen Penny and staff make more in game adjustments than Gramps did, despite his being a "HOF" coach. Funny people keep saying this, yet I didn't see Tubby's name in the Springfield last year when I was there.

On the watchability scale, this team is one of the worst Memphis teams I've ever seen. We lose almost every loose ball and 50/50 ball, are usually outnumbered going after rebounds, and when we aren't, we often lose rebounds to single opponents when we have him surrounded. We make horrible telegraphed passes that turn into easy turnovers.

We are fun to watch for three reasons. One, because we score a lot of points, two, because it will be fun watching the kids progress as 4 year players, and three, because MEMPHIS is written on the front of the uniform.

(01-11-2019 01:43 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:23 AM)bariggins98 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:00 AM)tigernole79 Wrote:  

(01-10-2019 11:20 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Is not showing me he is a good coach. I hope he improves, but we've got players who don't know how to call a timeout, players running into screens because there is no communication on defense, inbounds passes caroming off of the back shoulders of the intended target. No discipline. And a serious lack of a half-court offence. I get we want to play "run-n-gun", and I love it! But when we can't because the other team takes that away, we HAVE TO HAVE a serviceable offensive set or two.

Like I said, I hope he improves.

Honestly compare this team to last season's team. Do you think any of those things have gotten better or worse?! Now, are you really adding major all-stars that are dominating from day one, didn't lose a major amount of anything from last season and then remember you are comparing a first year NCAA coach to a likely HOF coach with decades of experience.

Not even including anything about fan support, recruiting or future players (because then it's a landslide) which team do you honestly think is playing better: This year's team or last year's?

This year's team is actually watchable and capable of coming back from double digit deficits and winning. 4 of 6 losses are to ranked teams. 2 other losses were in the 1st 6 games when this team was just starting to learn to play together.

I've seen Penny and staff make more in game adjustments than Gramps did, despite his being a "HOF" coach. Funny people keep saying this, yet I didn't see Tubby's name in the Springfield last year when I was there.

On the watchability scale, this team is one of the worst Memphis teams I've ever seen. We lose almost every loose ball and 50/50 ball, are usually outnumbered going after rebounds, and when we aren't, we often lose rebounds to single opponents when we have him surrounded. We make horrible telegraphed passes that turn into easy turnovers.

We are fun to watch for three reasons. One, because we score a lot of points, two, because it will be fun watching the kids progress as 4 year players, and three, because MEMPHIS is written on the front of the uniform.

You should try using facts. Cause your eyes have failed you.

What ever happened to teaching guys how to box out properly? Or maybe they are and the guys just aren't executing it? I continually see 2-3 guys going after the ball instead of boxing out their man first. This is why we continually see a single guy from the opposing team outrebound 2-3 of our guys.

(01-11-2019 01:55 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  What ever happened to teaching guys how to box out properly? Or maybe they are and the guys just aren't executing it? I continually see 2-3 guys going after the ball instead of boxing out their man first. This is why we continually see a single guy from the opposing team outrebound 2-3 of our guys.

IMO this is the single hardest thing to get kids to buy into. It seems like a skipable step. Kids want to do it but they want to go grab the ball more. Makes me crazy!

(01-11-2019 01:57 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:55 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  What ever happened to teaching guys how to box out properly? Or maybe they are and the guys just aren't executing it? I continually see 2-3 guys going after the ball instead of boxing out their man first. This is why we continually see a single guy from the opposing team outrebound 2-3 of our guys.

IMO this is the single hardest thing to get kids to buy into. It seems like a skipable step. Kids want to do it but they want to go grab the ball more. Makes me crazy!

It is called fundamentals and it isn't taught in high school. Bad habits are hard to break.

(01-11-2019 02:04 PM)2tigers Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:57 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:55 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  What ever happened to teaching guys how to box out properly? Or maybe they are and the guys just aren't executing it? I continually see 2-3 guys going after the ball instead of boxing out their man first. This is why we continually see a single guy from the opposing team outrebound 2-3 of our guys.

IMO this is the single hardest thing to get kids to buy into. It seems like a skipable step. Kids want to do it but they want to go grab the ball more. Makes me crazy!

It is called fundamentals and it isn't taught in high school. Bad habits are hard to break.

Apparently. The guys I see doing it are upperclassmen.

(01-11-2019 02:04 PM)2tigers Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:57 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:55 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  What ever happened to teaching guys how to box out properly? Or maybe they are and the guys just aren't executing it? I continually see 2-3 guys going after the ball instead of boxing out their man first. This is why we continually see a single guy from the opposing team outrebound 2-3 of our guys.

IMO this is the single hardest thing to get kids to buy into. It seems like a skipable step. Kids want to do it but they want to go grab the ball more. Makes me crazy!

It is called fundamentals and it isn't taught in high school. Bad habits are hard to break.

I know MS and HS coaches. ALL teach it. Again, it is so hard to get a kid to do it. The great reward is getting the ball, so they shortcut the process of boxing out to jump straight to chasing the ball- reward.

I've always liked Izzo's way of coaching a midpoint. he teaches kids to hit opponent with something then chase the ball. Hit with shoulder, hip, butt (something on torso) then chase ball. Not an all out box out, but has proven to be effective.

(01-11-2019 11:25 AM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  Penny and staff are "getting blood from a turnip" with this roster. Penny is upset not because the roster isn't as talented as a Memphis roster should be, he knew that going in. He's upset because the players don't go hard on every play. They think they are better than they are, so the effort wanes during the course of a game. He was really upset because he benched more talented freshman for loafing in practice, but the seniors came out loafing in the game. You gotta get more from the seniors than that. As he said, they haven't accomplished anything, and they get this opportunity to start and lead this team and they come out flat? Unacceptable! The roster lacks talent and leadership. The only way you can make up for the lack of talent is effort, which doesn't require talent at all, just heart. It is heart that truly makes Memphis basketball. I think as the freshman become humbled and get experience and the seniors begin to realize these are their last games, we'll see the effort improve. Penny is doing a great job coaching, but coaching will only take you so far. Players have to execute and produce.

CBM... This is your most accurate post ever.. IMHO. You deserve a point or two.

(01-11-2019 02:08 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 02:04 PM)2tigers Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:57 PM)gusrob Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:55 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  What ever happened to teaching guys how to box out properly? Or maybe they are and the guys just aren't executing it? I continually see 2-3 guys going after the ball instead of boxing out their man first. This is why we continually see a single guy from the opposing team outrebound 2-3 of our guys.

IMO this is the single hardest thing to get kids to buy into. It seems like a skipable step. Kids want to do it but they want to go grab the ball more. Makes me crazy!

It is called fundamentals and it isn't taught in high school. Bad habits are hard to break.

I know MS and HS coaches. ALL teach it. Again, it is so hard to get a kid to do it. The great reward is getting the ball, so they shortcut the process of boxing out to jump straight to chasing the ball- reward.

I've always liked Izzo's way of coaching a midpoint. he teaches kids to hit opponent with something then chase the ball. Hit with shoulder, hip, butt (something on torso) then chase ball. Not an all out box out, but has proven to be effective.

It may be that the "speed up the game" focus has left us with fewer rebounders under the defensive bucket. Seems that transition position, pace and process are difficult to establish and adjust.