(09-18-2018 05:12 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  A lot in this thread for someone who's not closely connected to all things Georgia Tech ... but a couple of (perhaps stupid) questions ...

1. Is the Georgia State merger thing a real possibility? What would the percentage possibility be for this? That would seem to be huge.

2. How hot is PJ's seat?

3. If PJ is let go, is there an obvious replacement?

(At Louisville, there's louder grumbling over Petrino, but I don't think his seat is so hot he wouldn't come back next year, even with an implosion this season, which so far, is a possibility. We have looked pretty horrific. But with that grumbling comes the "Hire Jeff Brohm" crowd -- even with his 0-3 start at Purdue this year. I would think that crowd would be even louder had the Boilermakers not started out so badly themselves. I think all that talk is pretty stupid, but it is going on in our fan base, to some degree. Anyway .... I wonder .... is there a similar situation for Georgia Tech.)

Ok, I will try and answer...

1. Is the Georgia State merger thing a real possibility? What would the percentage possibility be for this? No, 0%

2. How hot is PJ's seat? Fan base is lost, most wanted him fired instead of Ted Roof last year. The biggest question? Does AD Tstan fire him, or allow him to retire and then timing of the whole thing

3. If PJ is let go, is there an obvious replacement? Names mentioned have been: Geoff Collins, George Godsey, and Brent Key

SHOULD GT merge with Ga State? YES.
WILL they? NO.

If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

You cannot reduce a multivariate problem to one variable even if it is the most impactful.

It's not just W/L it's HOW you win and lose. How are the competitors doing? How competitive are you in the losses? How young is the team? How is recruiting doing? How is facilities and fundraising doing? Are you being given academic exemptions as you see fit? Is the AD competent?

The question has reduced innumerable complexity into such an oversimplification as to be no longer meaningful.

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Would you want to see a different style of offense?

(09-20-2018 03:36 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Given the entire burn down that would be required changing offenses, it's got to be tempting to find someone running something similar, but who is a little "hungrier", a better fundraiser, and maybe a more dynamic recruiter.

(09-20-2018 04:20 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 03:36 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Given the entire burn down that would be required changing offenses, it's got to be tempting to find someone running something similar, but who is a little "hungrier", a better fundraiser, and maybe a more dynamic recruiter.

I've always preferred the version of this offense run by Air Force. They don't get as many rushing yards, but it's a LOT more fun to watch (IMHO).

(09-20-2018 03:36 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Isn't there something of an assumption that Tech needs to run this kind of offense to compensate for the difficulty recruiting caused by their academic standards (especially the calculus requirement)? Wouldn't any new coach face the same recruiting limitations? And wouldn't he be stuck with the wrong kind of players for at least a couple of years on the front end? You could be looking at four or five years before you have any idea if the new guy can get the job done.

On the other hand, if the stands are largely empty because fans have given up on Johnson, how long can you stand that before anything is better than what you have?

(09-20-2018 08:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 03:36 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Isn't there something of an assumption that Tech needs to run this kind of offense to compensate for the difficulty recruiting caused by their academic standards (especially the calculus requirement)? Wouldn't any new coach face the same recruiting limitations? And wouldn't he be stuck with the wrong kind of players for at least a couple of years on the front end? You could be looking at four or five years before you have any idea if the new guy can get the job done.

On the other hand, if the stands are largely empty because fans have given up on Johnson, how long an you stand that before anything is better than what you have?

The end of your post is what really matters. It could be 40% Clemson in the stands this weekend. Bowling Green may be the lowest attendance since Gailey's last year. They only got 40k for the opener against Alcorn State. That's 15k empty. So the fan base was already uneasy. We'll see what disasterous self-destruction in Tampa and Pittsburgh and getting blasted at home do to improve that.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

(09-20-2018 09:12 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 08:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 03:36 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Isn't there something of an assumption that Tech needs to run this kind of offense to compensate for the difficulty recruiting caused by their academic standards (especially the calculus requirement)? Wouldn't any new coach face the same recruiting limitations? And wouldn't he be stuck with the wrong kind of players for at least a couple of years on the front end? You could be looking at four or five years before you have any idea if the new guy can get the job done.

On the other hand, if the stands are largely empty because fans have given up on Johnson, how long an you stand that before anything is better than what you have?

The end of your post is what really matters. It could be 40% Clemson in the stands this weekend. Bowling Green may be the lowest attendance since Gailey's last year. They only got 40k for the opener against Alcorn State. That's 15k empty. So the fan base was already uneasy. We'll see what disasterous self-destruction in Tampa and Pittsburgh and getting blasted at home do to improve that.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

If you have 7 home games and your average attendance drops by 10,000 and your average ticket price is $60 (including parking) then you are losing $4.2million a year. And that's before any decline in contributions that usually accompanies that kind of dissatisfaction.

So replacing the coach gets you a short term reversal of that cash drain. But don't you still have to fix the underlying factors that helped get Johnson to this point that were beyond his control? If you don't, won't we be having this same conversation 7 or 8 years down the road?

Watch the Golden Tornado turn it around and win out in the Coastal.

(09-21-2018 08:39 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 09:12 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 08:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 03:36 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(09-19-2018 05:21 PM)ken d Wrote:  If Tech fires Johnson, how many wins per year would they consider a success for his replacement?

I am not even sure it matters. After 2014 people would have said lets stick with the Scheme and try and pluck a Coach Johnson "Protege"... However the entire fanbase (about 90%) are ready to protest this his continued employment. Here is my take on why... I believe the problem is CPJs *COACHING*, backed up by his stubbornness. How many times have you heard him insist the plays were there, but so-and-so didn't run the play right (and you can see that on the video that he's right). But here's the thing - after 10 years through players of all kinds of ratings, intelligence, talent, and tenure, if he can't coach his players to run the system, then that's on him. I don't care what the system is, but you have to be able to coach it. We've had very senior offensive lines at times (for example), like 2015 and strangely we couldn't figure out what to do half the time.

So if the AD decides to start from scratch (throw out the flexbone out the Door with CPJ), that new coach would have a few years before the seat got warm. IMHO.

Isn't there something of an assumption that Tech needs to run this kind of offense to compensate for the difficulty recruiting caused by their academic standards (especially the calculus requirement)? Wouldn't any new coach face the same recruiting limitations? And wouldn't he be stuck with the wrong kind of players for at least a couple of years on the front end? You could be looking at four or five years before you have any idea if the new guy can get the job done.

On the other hand, if the stands are largely empty because fans have given up on Johnson, how long an you stand that before anything is better than what you have?

The end of your post is what really matters. It could be 40% Clemson in the stands this weekend. Bowling Green may be the lowest attendance since Gailey's last year. They only got 40k for the opener against Alcorn State. That's 15k empty. So the fan base was already uneasy. We'll see what disasterous self-destruction in Tampa and Pittsburgh and getting blasted at home do to improve that.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

If you have 7 home games and your average attendance drops by 10,000 and your average ticket price is $60 (including parking) then you are losing $4.2million a year. And that's before any decline in contributions that usually accompanies that kind of dissatisfaction.

So replacing the coach gets you a short term reversal of that cash drain. But don't you still have to fix the underlying factors that helped get Johnson to this point that were beyond his control? If you don't, won't we be having this same conversation 7 or 8 years down the road?

Todd Stansbury as AD has done good work to unite the fan base. $28M raised in 4 months for the 2020 Initiative. There aresome who do not think Coach Johnson is a good recruiter, and even former players bad mouth him. (Not sure if they are disgruntled or what)

So if you have a new AD who is a Tech guy and is trying to raise some money... and the fan base is pissed at Johnson, it would appear that the AD will have to get a new coach or scrap the 2020 Initiative... So with teh right Coach and the AD in place it appears GT might be able to improve...In theroy at least.

I'll say it again...there's no excuse for Tech to have not had a running back drafted in the NFL since 2011. Tech should have multiple guys like Jonathan Dwyer to run up the middle with every season. Either Paul Johnson and his staff are inept at recruiting, or the administration is strangling the program. I will say that CPJ's time at Tech sort of mirrors what he did at Southern. Johnson put up insane offensive numbers in a time where few teams averaged 30 points a game, but he left the program with less talent than he inherited.

I feel for Jeff Monken and Ken Niumatalolo because any failure at Tech by Johnson will be incorrectly blamed on the system and they might not be able to get any Power 5 job. Both of those guys are better CEOs/Program managers than Johnson and Monken actually signed both of Southern's former running backs that are now in the NFL (by comparison, Tech has no running backs in the NFL). Those guys would both be good candidates for Tech, but they won't be considered because "durrrrrrr high school offense!"

(09-21-2018 11:13 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  I'll say it again...there's no excuse for Tech to have not had a running back drafted in the NFL since 2011. Tech should have multiple guys like Jonathan Dwyer to run up the middle with every season. Either Paul Johnson and his staff are inept at recruiting, or the administration is strangling the program. I will say that CPJ's time at Tech sort of mirrors what he did at Southern. Johnson put up insane offensive numbers in a time where few teams averaged 30 points a game, but he left the program with less talent than he inherited.

I feel for Jeff Monken and Ken Niumatalolo because any failure at Tech by Johnson will be incorrectly blamed on the system and they might not be able to get any Power 5 job. Both of those guys are better CEOs/Program managers than Johnson and Monken actually signed both of Southern's former running backs that are now in the NFL (by comparison, Tech has no running backs in the NFL). Those guys would both be good candidates for Tech, but they won't be considered because "durrrrrrr high school offense!"

Monken would be my choice to replace Fedora.
Unfortunately there are a lot of negatives because of PJ and option offense in general.

(09-23-2018 01:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-21-2018 11:13 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  I'll say it again...there's no excuse for Tech to have not had a running back drafted in the NFL since 2011. Tech should have multiple guys like Jonathan Dwyer to run up the middle with every season. Either Paul Johnson and his staff are inept at recruiting, or the administration is strangling the program. I will say that CPJ's time at Tech sort of mirrors what he did at Southern. Johnson put up insane offensive numbers in a time where few teams averaged 30 points a game, but he left the program with less talent than he inherited.

I feel for Jeff Monken and Ken Niumatalolo because any failure at Tech by Johnson will be incorrectly blamed on the system and they might not be able to get any Power 5 job. Both of those guys are better CEOs/Program managers than Johnson and Monken actually signed both of Southern's former running backs that are now in the NFL (by comparison, Tech has no running backs in the NFL). Those guys would both be good candidates for Tech, but they won't be considered because "durrrrrrr high school offense!"

Monken would be my choice to replace Fedora.
Unfortunately there are a lot of negatives because of PJ and option offense in general.

I was thinking that too! I’d love to see an option offense in Chapel Hill. What Army did last night was incredible.

Georgia Tech wants to keep Johnson. That might not be an option
LINK
https://www.ajc.com/blog/mark-bradley/te...LO2lIzgFO/

These next five games should serve as Johnson’s closing argument. If he wins three, he figures to keep his job. If he doesn’t, it could force Stansbury to do something he doesn’t want to do. I’m on record as believing the next Tech coach mightn’t do as well as Johnson, but the incumbent really does need to give his boss some reason not to seek a next coach.

The attendance issue will force things to a head sooner rather than later. I don't think he'll be fired b/c Stansbury doesn't want to fire him. But as long as the results on the field continue ... then every home game is now bleeding (15,000 x $50 => $750,000) in lost attendance alone.

(10-17-2018 02:56 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The attendance issue will force things to a head sooner rather than later. I don't think he'll be fired b/c Stansbury doesn't want to fire him. But as long as the results on the field continue ... then every home game is now bleeding (15,000 x $50 => $750,000) in lost attendance alone.

GTS, Georgia Tech is not alone.

https://lastwordoncollegefootball.com/20...ttendance/

"We’ve seen coaches such as Nick Saban publically speak about it. It’s visible, particularly, during early 11:00 AM CST kickoffs. Comparatively, we can see as we look at the data that is right in front of us. College football has an issue that must be addressed. Attendance. There has been a steady decline in attendance for college football. Today, we look at the growing problem of college football attendance."

I'm an outsider here, but how can it be that GT can't afford to pony up $2M to tell Johnson to go away? There have been G5 schools pony up more than this to fire coaches.