Originally Posted by 18in32 on the Stingtalk Board
Link
https://stingtalk.com/board/threads/stat...are.98109/

State of CPJ's Contract for those Who Care

Termination Provisions

(1) He gets paid $1,000,000 for each season left on the contract if fired without cause. The contract runs through 2022, so if we fire him after this season, he gets $4,000,000. In terms of the general context of CFB coaching contracts, I think that's a pretty favorable buyout relative to his salary. His total compensation for 2018 is a little over $3,000,000, and it rises to $3.4 million by 2022. So we can fire him at a third of the cost to pay him to coach. Usually you've got to pay 100% of unpaid salary.

Curiously, CPJ's attorney overlooked a drafting ambiguity (IMHO) in this separation clause provision. The provision specifically determines how much CPJ is paid if fired without cause "at the end of the 2018 season." But what if he's fired without cause *before* the end of the 2018 season? CPJ probably wins that ultimately at trial, but still it creates an issue to fight over and reduces the settlement value in the event there's anything else to also fight over.

FWIW, I think there are some ST posters who are bizarrely fixated on CPJ's buyout, and seem to think there's something meaningful about it. It's a very small buyout relative to his salary and other coaches' contracts. It is so small that there's no way it's a major consideration for TStan as he evaluates the situation. After all, Football is responsible for 90% of the GTAA budget. While the separation premium is a lot of money to you and me, it's just the cost of doing business (and preserving your business) if you're TStan.

I think it is highly likely that whatever happens this year, CPJ remains our coach next year, just because of how strongly TStan has supported him so far, and because of the 2009 & 2014 legacies. That said, if TStan thinks CPJ is not beneficial to GT football on balance, he's gone, regardless of the buyout. Think about it – there's no way in this era that any coach actually coaches out his contract – that just tells recruits that change is coming and hamstrings recruiting. So the question for the AD is always, "Do I give the HC *one* more year to right the ship, and what's the one year going to cost me either way?" In this case, the *one* year costs $1 mil. That's a tiny amount in CFB today, even for a modestly-resourced program like ours.

(2) Interestingly there's a separate "early retirement" provision. If CPJ tells the GTAA before the end of the season that he's going to retire at the end of the season, then the GTAA agrees to pay him $1 mil. Typically CPJ wouldn't get paid anything if he chooses to quit the job, but I guess we wanted to incentivize him to tell us in advance and allow GT the best possible chance to find a new coach. We don't want him to decide in the middle of May that he's not coming back... we want him to decide that in the middle of October, so we can be fully researched and loaded when the coaching search market is at its peak in Dec/Jan.

(3) In the event CPJ were to take a job with another FBS team before the end of the contract, he would have to pay the GTAA $750k. Interestingly, he pays no penalty if he takes a job coaching at a different level (NFL, FCS, Div. II, high school!) or if he takes any job other than head coach. So he can become a 'special consultant' at Ga So (or whatever) and pay no penalty. (Of course, he can collect the $1 mil described above just be characterizing it as an early retirement, anyhow.)

"Exemplary Performance"

Not that this is particularly relevant to our current situation, but here are the bonuses CPJ is eligible for, since I happen to have the contract open in front of me at the moment...

(4) Graduation Success Rate – Any year the team has a graduation rate above 70% (as calculated by the NCAA), he gets $140,000.

(5) APR – He gets bonuses of $65k, $90k, and $115k for APR rates of 930+, 940+ and 950+.

(6) Wins – He gets bonuses of $50k, $75k and $100k if the team finishes with 6, 7 or 8+ wins. [Aside, a bonus for 6 wins? That's "exemplary performance" nowadays? Bad look, IMHO.]

(7) ACC – He gets $100k for winning the ACC.

(8) Bowls – He gets... $250k for making the CFP, $250k for winning the CFP, $200k for making one of the other Big 6 bowls, $125 for making the Citrus or Russell Athletic bowls, $100k for making the Belk/Sun/Pinstripe/Music City or Taxslayer bowls, $75k for making the Military, Independence, Detroit, Bitcoin, or Birmingham bowls, and $75k for winning a bowl.

(9) ACC COTY – He gets $25k for being named the ACC COTY.

(10) COTY – He gets $50k for being named national COTY (Bobby Dodd or otherwise).

(11) Rankings – He gets $10k for finishing in the Top 25, and $50k for finishing in the Top 10.

There is no "beat UGA" bonus. So if CPJ were to maximize his bonuses in one magical season, he'd take home an extra $1,080,000. As I said, I realize this is irrelevant at the moment, but since I had the new contract in front of me, I thought I'd pass it along.

PS. This is one poorly written contract, from a technical drafting perspective. CPJ's lawyer needs a lesson in contract drafting. There are internal inconsistencies and ambiguities that could be a problem in the event of litigation.

PPS. Am I the only one who thinks it's kind of cool that Marvin Lewis signs CPJ's contract?

(09-17-2018 02:28 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 02:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 10:43 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I heard the buyout was $15m?

GT's first and foremost problem was AD. That seems to be solved at the moment. I'd say the next biggest problem is the President Bud Peterson himself. He cared so little about athletics he essentially let, IIRC from the AJC, a booster (McCamish, namesake of the basketball arena) hire the previous AD. Which was an unmitigated disaster. For starters the BDSM policies like calculus for all must go. Then there needs to be a prolonged battle against the GABOR. As far as I'm concerned as soon as they gave UGAg an engineering school all bets are off. I'd start with medical and law programs. Or work out a way to fold Georgia State in while divesting the more sketchy academic parts of Georgia State.

How does Gt taking over Georgia State make Georgia Tech a better football team in a way that can't be accomplished easier just by changing policies at Georgia Tech?

It could be more likely to clear GABOR. There have been other similar high-profile mergers in recent years. In terms of likely all of these are varying degrees of implausible.

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If GT could merge with Ga State it would be HUGE for the athletics programs. First, it more than doubles the student body - more students = more attendance. It likely increases donations and TV ratings too. Finally, having a much broader course offering would really open up recruiting in state. All of this should be prerequisite to firing CPJ - he's been doing about as well as can be expected* under the circumstances, but the situation would be MUCH different post-merger.

CPJ's overall win% = 58.5%; CPJ's win% last 2 [full] seasons = 58.3%

These are GT's "soft" degrees in Liberal Arts

Applied Language and Intercultural Studies (BS)

Chinese (Minor)

Computational Media & Digital Media (BS/MS)

Computational Media (BS)

East Asian Studies (Minor)

Economics (BS)

Economics (Minor)

Economics and International Affairs (BS)

Energy Systems (Minor)

Film and Media Studies (Minor)

French (Minor)

German (Minor)

Global Development (Minor)

Global Economics and Modern Languages (BS)

Health, Medicine, and Society (Minor)

History (Minor)

History, Technology, and Society (BS)

International Affairs (BS)

International Affairs (BS/MS)

International Affairs (Minor)

International Affairs and Modern Languages (BS)

International Business, Language, and Culture (Minor)

Japanese (Minor)

Korean (Minor)

Law, Science, and Technology – Pre-Law (Minor)

Leadership Studies (Minor)

Linguistics (Minor)

Literature, Media, and Communication & Digital Media (BS/MS)

Literature, Media, and Communication (BS)

Middle Eastern and North African Studies (Minor)

Naval Science (Minor)

Performance Studies (Minor)

Philosophy (Minor)

Political Science (Minor)

Public Policy (BS)

Public Policy (BS/MS)

Public Policy (Minor)

Russian (Minor)

Science Fiction Studies (Minor)

Science, Technology, and Society (Minor)

Social Justice (Minor)

Sociology (Minor)

Spanish (Minor)

Sports, Society, and Technology (Minor)

Technical Communications (Minor)

Women, Science, and Technology (Minor)

Also, let's not pretend there are not costs to going down that road. STEM is the future and if we took education even 5% as seriously as we CLAIM we do as a society it would already be the present. Liberal arts should be considered a niche where the future job prospects are only in education of the exact same material. There's no pride in having an Interdisciplinary Studies degree. There's only shameless profligacy. There's only so many jobs to be had as football coaches, assistants, and broadcasters for these people -- the overwhelming majority of which won't make it in the pros no matter what school they go to.

It's only a tragic admission that the public writ large has their priorities staggeringly out of whack.

Well, they need a MAJOR... take out all of the Minors and you're left with:

(09-17-2018 04:41 PM)Statefan Wrote:  These are GT's "soft" degrees in Liberal Arts

Applied Language and Intercultural Studies (BS)

Computational Media & Digital Media (BS/MS)

Computational Media (BS)

Economics (BS)

Economics and International Affairs (BS)

Global Economics and Modern Languages (BS)

History, Technology, and Society (BS)

International Affairs (BS)

International Affairs (BS/MS)

International Affairs and Modern Languages (BS)

Literature, Media, and Communication & Digital Media (BS/MS)

Literature, Media, and Communication (BS)

Public Policy (BS)

Public Policy (BS/MS)

Those are the REAL course offerings.

At both NC State and Carolina the general difference between a BA and a BS is two semesters of Calculus and two extra sciences in most any subject. Could GT stomach that? Would they be willing to back those out for a couple of BA's knowing the BA is not worth the frame for a BS?

(09-17-2018 05:56 PM)Statefan Wrote:  At both NC State and Carolina the general difference between a BA and a BS is two semesters of Calculus and two extra sciences in most any subject. Could GT stomach that? Would they be willing to back those out for a couple of BA's knowing the BA is not worth the frame for a BS?

This is why I suggested going to law and medical schools first, and if merger with Georgia State there needs to be a divestment of the sketchier parts of Georgia State. If the two merged wholesale it'd be like throwing a boat anchor on every quantifiable metric used to objectively determine the rigor and merits and qualities of a school as as whole. I'd suggest taking the low level liberal arts and spinning them out as a new 2-year with associate's degrees and partnership programs with Tech/Southern/UGAg for people who want to do two there then two at the big name to save money. The sales pitch for the GABOR is you're consolidating staffs and facilities and thus dropping costs. The UGAg-friendly appeasement pitch to the GABOR is you're removing another football mouth to feed and facilities consumer. The real world benefit for all the taxpayers is they get a new world class liberal arts offering and they make a degree path to any of the majors way cheaper for all of metro Atlanta, particularly poor metro Atlanta which can walk/commute to the new feeder community college. It actually does make good economic and academic sense all around if you think about it. And that's why it's such a hurdle ... government rarely does things that make sense.

(09-17-2018 03:25 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  If GT could merge with Ga State it would be HUGE for the athletics programs. First, it more than doubles the student body - more students = more attendance. It likely increases donations and TV ratings too. Finally, having a much broader course offering would really open up recruiting in state. All of this should be prerequisite to firing CPJ - he's been doing about as well as can be expected* under the circumstances, but the situation would be MUCH different post-merger.

CPJ's overall win% = 58.5%; CPJ's win% last 2 [full] seasons = 58.3%

Man I am not sure about you, but Georgia Tech has received 28M in donations since June 8, 2018.... Georgia Tech can no longer say they can not get Donations... That is SEC level.... Georgia Tech's issue is going to be a high level a expecatation with the high level of donation commitment. Georgia Tech Football looks to have the $$ Donations, the million dollar question is will Coach Johnson produce or not?

If UGA controls the board I can see them blocking this. A straight merger between GT and State would create a behemoth that has twice as many students and twice the budget. There may be some reductions but it would still be considerably larger than UGA.

There would have to be a way (as GTS noted) to limit the affect on GT academics. Merging with #35 with #187 is going to hurt.

(09-16-2018 10:43 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I heard the buyout was $15m?

GT's first and foremost problem was AD. That seems to be solved at the moment. I'd say the next biggest problem is the President Bud Peterson himself. He cared so little about athletics he essentially let, IIRC from the AJC, a booster (McCamish, namesake of the basketball arena) hire the previous AD. Which was an unmitigated disaster. For starters the BDSM policies like calculus for all must go. Then there needs to be a prolonged battle against the GABOR. As far as I'm concerned as soon as they gave UGAg an engineering school all bets are off. I'd start with medical and law programs. Or work out a way to fold Georgia State in while divesting the more sketchy academic parts of Georgia State.

You, me and Panama know that Ga State is not a viable option. The BOR just merged them with Perimeter College. Short of some type of merger with Morehouse or Emory, a school of medicine isn’t in the offing either. A law school seems like a non-starter as well considering the BOR probably believes it did GT a favor by getting rid of Southern Poly. I do agree with you that when UGA broke the historic liberal arts/ STEM divide that Tech should have been allowed to create a BA wing much like Purdue or NCST.

SEC avg donation levels 2010-14 ( Alabama did not provide numbers)
Link
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/...2ab87.html

1. $48.8M - Texas A&M
2. $45.1M - LSU
3. $44.3M - Florida
4. $33.8M - Auburn
5. $31.8M - Ole Miss
6. $28.5M - Arkansas
7. $26.9M - Georgia
8. $18.9M - Miss St
9. $13.7M - USCe

Since Jun 8, 2018 Georgia Tech has raised $28.5M which would tie us for 6th in the SEC. https://atfund.gatech.edu/AD-priorities

This has only been going for four months... Problem is our High level of donations is coming at a time when the Georgia Tech football team is a dumpster fire...

(09-17-2018 07:52 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  SEC avg donation levels 2010-14 ( Alabama did not provide numbers)
Link
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/...2ab87.html

1. $48.8M - Texas A&M
2. $45.1M - LSU
3. $44.3M - Florida
4. $33.8M - Auburn
5. $31.8M - Ole Miss
6. $28.5M - Arkansas
7. $26.9M - Georgia
8. $18.9M - Miss St
9. $13.7M - USCe

Since Jun 8, 2018 Georgia Tech has raised $28.5M which would tie us for 6th in the SEC. https://atfund.gatech.edu/AD-priorities

This has only been going for four months... Problem is our High level of donations is coming at a time when the Georgia Tech football team is a dumpster fire...

That's because of the AD 2020 Initiative. A huge chunk of that came in right from the get-go when that campaign started. And a lot of that is because Todd Stansbury as AD has done good work to unite the fan base.

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(09-17-2018 07:19 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It seems like all of this angst is predicated on the USF loss - very disappointing to be sure, but USF is undefeated, so we don't know yet if that's actually a bad loss - the Bulls may end up ranked.

As for CPJ vs. previous coaches, during the ACC years, here are GT's head coach W-L records:
Bill Curry 23-19 (51.1%)
Bobby Ross 31-26 (53.4%)
Bill Lewis 11-22 (33.3%)
George O'Leary 53-30 (63.9%)
Chan Gailey 44-33 (57.1%)
Paul Johnson 76-54 (58.5%)

Has CPJ lost his touch? Last 2 years, he is 14-10 (58.3%)

Worst thing you can say about CPJ is that he often alternates winning seasons with losing ones?

Such a misread to say this is all USF. This goes back to the TN game. USF and Pitt are just two more in a growing list of Groundhog Days from the TN game.

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(09-17-2018 07:54 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 07:52 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  SEC avg donation levels 2010-14 ( Alabama did not provide numbers)
Link
https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/...2ab87.html

1. $48.8M - Texas A&M
2. $45.1M - LSU
3. $44.3M - Florida
4. $33.8M - Auburn
5. $31.8M - Ole Miss
6. $28.5M - Arkansas
7. $26.9M - Georgia
8. $18.9M - Miss St
9. $13.7M - USCe

Since Jun 8, 2018 Georgia Tech has raised $28.5M which would tie us for 6th in the SEC. https://atfund.gatech.edu/AD-priorities

This has only been going for four months... Problem is our High level of donations is coming at a time when the Georgia Tech football team is a dumpster fire...

That's because of the AD 2020 Initiative. A huge chunk of that came in right from the get-go when that campaign started. And a lot of that is because Todd Stansbury as AD has done good work to unite the fan base.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

With High Level of Donations comes High Level Expectations.... So With Tech Football looking like a dumpster fire... 18 Wins in the last four years and no hope in sight.... Something will have to give.... I am doubling down on AD TStan wanting the Donations to continue so he will have to raise the football profile or at least try with a coaching change.... Just a guess

(09-17-2018 08:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 07:19 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It seems like all of this angst is predicated on the USF loss - very disappointing to be sure, but USF is undefeated, so we don't know yet if that's actually a bad loss - the Bulls may end up ranked.

As for CPJ vs. previous coaches, during the ACC years, here are GT's head coach W-L records:
Bill Curry 23-19 (51.1%)
Bobby Ross 31-26 (53.4%)
Bill Lewis 11-22 (33.3%)
George O'Leary 53-30 (63.9%)
Chan Gailey 44-33 (57.1%)
Paul Johnson 76-54 (58.5%)

Has CPJ lost his touch? Last 2 years, he is 14-10 (58.3%)

Worst thing you can say about CPJ is that he often alternates winning seasons with losing ones?

Such a misread to say this is all USF. This goes back to the TN game. USF and Pitt are just two more in a growing list of Groundhog Days from the TN game.

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I have to admit I was PO that GT lost to TN -- and I only have a secondary rooting interest in the Jackets.

(09-17-2018 08:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 08:01 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 07:19 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It seems like all of this angst is predicated on the USF loss - very disappointing to be sure, but USF is undefeated, so we don't know yet if that's actually a bad loss - the Bulls may end up ranked.

As for CPJ vs. previous coaches, during the ACC years, here are GT's head coach W-L records:
Bill Curry 23-19 (51.1%)
Bobby Ross 31-26 (53.4%)
Bill Lewis 11-22 (33.3%)
George O'Leary 53-30 (63.9%)
Chan Gailey 44-33 (57.1%)
Paul Johnson 76-54 (58.5%)

Has CPJ lost his touch? Last 2 years, he is 14-10 (58.3%)

Worst thing you can say about CPJ is that he often alternates winning seasons with losing ones?

Such a misread to say this is all USF. This goes back to the TN game. USF and Pitt are just two more in a growing list of Groundhog Days from the TN game.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

I have to admit I was PO that GT lost to TN -- and I only have a secondary rooting interest in the Jackets.

This actually goes back to 2015.... 18 wins in four years.... DUMPSTER FIRE... However If we beat Tenn... maybe we are not talking about 18 Wins in the last 4 years.

The record problems go back to 2015. The "lose the fanbase" problems started with that TN game. The repose since then has been constant:
- No defense (the D is actually better this year, but the result isn't different enough to translate onto the scoreboard)
- Atrocious special teams
- An offense that can't deliver when it actually seriously matters and, worse than that, tends to turn it over when it really matters

Self-destruction and being mentally unprepared is the fastest way to lose the GT fanbase. That's been the case for two years now. The USF game was merely the catalyst that pushed things over the edge.

(09-17-2018 09:44 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The record problems go back to 2015. The "lose the fanbase" problems started with that TN game. The repose since then has been constant:
- No defense (the D is actually better this year, but the result isn't different enough to translate onto the scoreboard)
- Atrocious special teams
- An offense that can't deliver when it actually seriously matters and, worse than that, tends to turn it over when it really matters

Self-destruction and being mentally unprepared is the fastest way to lose the GT fanbase. That's been the case for two years now. The USF game was merely the catalyst that pushed things over the edge.

He fired or parted ways with Rychleski in 2016 and never hired a ST team Coach... That falls on him..

A lot in this thread for someone who's not closely connected to all things Georgia Tech ... but a couple of (perhaps stupid) questions ...

1. Is the Georgia State merger thing a real possibility? What would the percentage possibility be for this? That would seem to be huge.

2. How hot is PJ's seat?

3. If PJ is let go, is there an obvious replacement?

(At Louisville, there's louder grumbling over Petrino, but I don't think his seat is so hot he wouldn't come back next year, even with an implosion this season, which so far, is a possibility. We have looked pretty horrific. But with that grumbling comes the "Hire Jeff Brohm" crowd -- even with his 0-3 start at Purdue this year. I would think that crowd would be even louder had the Boilermakers not started out so badly themselves. I think all that talk is pretty stupid, but it is going on in our fan base, to some degree. Anyway .... I wonder .... is there a similar situation for Georgia Tech.)

(09-18-2018 05:12 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  A lot in this thread for someone who's not closely connected to all things Georgia Tech ... but a couple of (perhaps stupid) questions ...

1. Is the Georgia State merger thing a real possibility? What would the percentage possibility be for this? That would seem to be huge.

2. How hot is PJ's seat?

3. If PJ is let go, is there an obvious replacement?

(At Louisville, there's louder grumbling over Petrino, but I don't think his seat is so hot he wouldn't come back next year, even with an implosion this season, which so far, is a possibility. We have looked pretty horrific. But with that grumbling comes the "Hire Jeff Brohm" crowd -- even with his 0-3 start at Purdue this year. I would think that crowd would be even louder had the Boilermakers not started out so badly themselves. I think all that talk is pretty stupid, but it is going on in our fan base, to some degree. Anyway .... I wonder .... is there a similar situation for Georgia Tech.)

You can forget a merger. It's so much easier to allow a couple of BA's and or to partner with Emory. The problem at GT is that normal academics are not acceptable. Cut the BA's out of Duke and you have GT. However from what I have seen the last couple of years, GT didn't lose based on talent and didn't lose due to calculus. They have about 6 losses that seem to be plain screw ups.