(03-08-2018 09:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:02 AM)maximus Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:55 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote:  It's business

Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.

If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.

He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?

Actually ive had to do both

.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.

It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If you have the choice you do it in the most humane and discreet way possible. There was definitely a choice, definitely a better way to go about this.

Life isn't fair.
Tubby himself has not been fair.
He derides college players for transferring for greener pastures...when he himself has done that.
In a odd way...its Karma.

Lightly Seasoned


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjEbft6ZoJk

Please, Tubby will walk away with $10 million for doing nothing. Cry me a river.

(03-08-2018 08:13 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:10 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:56 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.

I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.

Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.

I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.

I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.

Possible reasons for the admin and/or boosters to leak this instead of Penny:

1.) Admin leaks it simply to test the water with fans and see how the national media picks up on it. This allows them to gauge whether public perception of the firing of Tubby and hiring of Penny will play out positively, negatively or neutral. How it would be spun would certainly be a concern of the admin, so it makes sense to test the waters a little before diving in.

2.) A booster or two good reasonably have leaked this due to a lack of consensus or agreement from other booster and/or admin. In this case, the booster(s) would be using it as a power play. In this scenario the booster(s) believe it will be positively viewed so they leak it to put extreme pressure on the admin and other boosters to get behind firing Tubby at the end of the season.

IMO, both are perfectly reasonable explanations for the admin or booster leaking this. Could it have been Penny leaking the info in a similar manner or for a similar purpose as reason 2 I listed, sure, but the only people who know are the ones who actually received the info and I believe they have been saying it was boosters thus far.

#1 doesn't seem plausible. I agree that #2 is possible. Again though, I would love if someone who has heard that Penny didn't act as I said he did before Tubby was hired, refutes what I say. I suppose that anyone could, but from what I heard, Penny was extremely aggressive before Tubby was hired.

I know for a fact Bowen was calling large $ boosters on Monday later afternoon/night to gauge feelings on the possible coaching move to Penny. It took until almost to later Tuesday afternoon for the move to get out. I do not know where the "leak" came from but I am relatively sure that someone let it out of the bag from the booster network or their friends. Now what I'm not sure of is what predicated the calls being made on Monday versus tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday night. Something caused that and possibly (as I don't have direct knowledge), someone put pressure on UM from the Penny camp to give them a decision before they accepted another position somewhere else.

I wish it would/could have been handled differently but we are where we are. Tubby will be fine with the $$ and this is life in the coaching circles. It was going to cost even more to keep him and the program and fan interest would have fallen further.

Does this possibly indicate a shrewd move by the Penny camp? Maybe so... Maybe he is a much better strategist then people are giving him credit.

I look at it this way... If this were a sales job (some say it really is) with an experienced sales person, and the results are not where you want, the trend in results is headed in the wrong direction (wins, losses and fan interest as that IS important), where the sales person is trying to lower expectations, AND the PIPELINE (recruits) is not looking very promising either, that sales person would be terminated as opposed to continue in that direction any longer.

(03-08-2018 09:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:02 AM)maximus Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:55 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote:  It's business

Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.

If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.

He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?

Actually ive had to do both

.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.

It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If you have the choice you do it in the most humane and discreet way possible. There was definitely a choice, definitely a better way to go about this.

I do not think you can have this both ways.

Out of one side of your mouth you are saying that Penny and his team leaked this information and out of the other side you are essentially blaming the administration for this becoming public...

It is a high profile job in a high profile industry. It is what it is. Coaching searches are big business for sporting news and they will jump on any hint of a possible change, especially when it involves two high profile individuals like Tubby and Penny. The idea that this could have been discrete in any manner is completely implausible. Sometimes you have to strike when the opportunity presents itself even if it is not the best timing. Perhaps, Penny was legitimately considering accepting a job elsewhere and needed an answer and was not willing to wait for a week or two.

(03-08-2018 07:56 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.

I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.

Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.

I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.

I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.

While this was handled sloppily, this is not a horrible look in the media. The majority of the media is jumping on this and running with it. National media is covering this in a positive light. They're saying we should pull the trigger. Local media has been all over this for the last three days.

You're not in Memphis. The buzz around the city right now is unlike anything we've seen in the last 5 years. Given where our college and pro programs are right now, it's honestly a huge breath of fresh air. There's hope, which is something that we didn't have a week ago. And there is a big opportunity with this. There's big risk, but there was big risk with a lot of our previous hires. Some risks work out wonderfully (Finch, Calipari, Fuente, etc.). Other risks don't. There is huge risk/reward for this, but we're at a point with this program to where we need to make some bold moves.

(03-08-2018 10:05 AM)ksigtigerdood Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:56 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.

I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.

Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.

I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.

I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.

While this was handled sloppily, this is not a horrible look in the media. The majority of the media is jumping on this and running with it. National media is covering this in a positive light. They're saying we should pull the trigger. Local media has been all over this for the last three days.

You're not in Memphis. The buzz around the city right now is unlike anything we've seen in the last 5 years. Given where our college and pro programs are right now, it's honestly a huge breath of fresh air. There's hope, which is something that we didn't have a week ago. And there is a big opportunity with this. There's big risk, but there was big risk with a lot of our previous hires. Some risks work out wonderfully (Finch, Calipari, Fuente, etc.). Other risks don't. There is huge risk/reward for this, but we're at a point with this program to where we need to make some bold moves.

In the past week Tubby made himself and the University look foolish with his comments about transfers.

The media has picked this up in a very positive manner and as you stated almost all outlets are saying Memphis should take this chance.

Fans/media have whined and complained about Tubby since he got here. They've nitpicked and ridiculed every action or inaction. Many wanted him gone yesterday. I don't blame fans, but many have not attended games this year. I agree it would be nice if this situation could have been handled better, but it seems odd that you care about how he's treated now.

I have no clue why the administration has handled things this way. Maybe to stir up excitement about the program again and potentially to get the attention of prospects. Maybe Tubby did something to tick Rudd off? Could be all of the above....not sure.

This is part of the job. Why you make millions. Comes with the territory in a basketball fanbase city like Memphis.

Get real! When has there ever been a ‘clean’ or ‘the right way’ coaching breakup in sports? Is the program getting beat up nationally? Initially, the answer is NO, in fact it’s been fairly positive about Penny being the coach that can bring in must-needed talent to a Basketball crazy city like Memphis and that the game has past by Tubby whom they all like.

Penny didn’t do anything wrong with starting to gauge interest with looking for potential staff members as he was preparing to be the next head basketball coach at Memphis. Obviously when you ask questions about assistants then somebody among that net is going to talk to somebody in the media. It is what it is. Penny isn’t talking but people like to leak and blabber all the time. Look at all the leaking going on in Washington D.C. but you expect it not to happen in sports? NFL leak-analyst Ian Rapaport wouldn’t have a job if it wasn’t for leaks he gets on a daily basis!

(03-08-2018 10:05 AM)ksigtigerdood Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:56 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.

I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.

Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.

I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.

I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.

While this was handled sloppily, this is not a horrible look in the media. The majority of the media is jumping on this and running with it. National media is covering this in a positive light. They're saying we should pull the trigger. Local media has been all over this for the last three days.

You're not in Memphis. The buzz around the city right now is unlike anything we've seen in the last 5 years. Given where our college and pro programs are right now, it's honestly a huge breath of fresh air. There's hope, which is something that we didn't have a week ago. And there is a big opportunity with this. There's big risk, but there was big risk with a lot of our previous hires. Some risks work out wonderfully (Finch, Calipari, Fuente, etc.). Other risks don't. There is huge risk/reward for this, but we're at a point with this program to where we need to make some bold moves.

All. Of. This.

It's been out there for months that Penny is interested in coaching at the college level - why would anyone in his camp burn that bridge with Memphis by leaking info if that's what he really wants?

The UofM's Board of Trustees met yesterday - I feel certain some discussions needed to be had prior to that meeting, so any moves could be signed off on quickly after the tournament this weekend.

If the previous post about discussions with boosters Monday is true, which makes sense with the BOT meeting, then it stands to reason that someone affiliated with the boosters, NOT Penny or someone in his camp, leaked the story, whether to gauge community interest or not.

Tubby doesn't want to be here, the administration doesn't want him to be here, the boosters don't want him to be here, and the fanbase doesn't want him to be here. I guarantee you Tubby's not wasting time worrying about hurt feelings or a better way to go about this. No one else should be, either.

I seem to remember that Memphis used to have a requirement (may still do) that a player must graduate in order to have his jersey retired. That rule was waived for Hardaway in exchange for a big donation to the school.

They didn't want to make another mistake with BBall hire. Maybe they allowed this to be floated out there to test the waters. Or maybe someone other than UofM leaked it. You don't start a relationship with future possible coaching hires once there is an opening. that needs to be decided BEFORE you throw $10M at Tubby to leave.

Eh, I think people are overthinking this. Basketball is a sport where 1-2 dynamic new players can instantly transform your team. The Penny Hardaway brand/shoe is still strong globally, and even kids in rural Missouri (where I live) know who Penny is. What a wonderful opportunity to be able to add instant credibility and make the Memphis brand "cool" again, as it was in 2008 with Rose, CDR, etc., with the full support of Nike. Plus the man bleeds Tiger blue.

(03-08-2018 10:51 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  I seem to remember that Memphis used to have a requirement (may still do) that a player must graduate in order to have his jersey retired. That rule was waived for Hardaway in exchange for a big donation to the school.

I don't seem to remember that. Besides, he graduated.

Waiting to the end of the season to make an announcement that Penny is the new coach shortens the time frame for players like Wiseman to reconsider their choice. So why not let the possible signees know the 411 before an official announcement. You know, a what if scenario like: Tubby is gone and Penny is the new HC. Would you come play here?

If we end-up hiring Penny, you can bet this has the marks of full, enthusiastic push/promotion of Laurie and other boosters. A Penny hire seems to be the antithesis of a Bowen move. Doesn't fit his style or previous behavior IMHO.

(03-08-2018 09:53 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:02 AM)maximus Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:55 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote:  It's business

Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.

If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.

He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?

Actually ive had to do both

.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.

It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If you have the choice you do it in the most humane and discreet way possible. There was definitely a choice, definitely a better way to go about this.

I do not think you can have this both ways.

Out of one side of your mouth you are saying that Penny and his team leaked this information and out of the other side you are essentially blaming the administration for this becoming public...

It is a high profile job in a high profile industry. It is what it is. Coaching searches are big business for sporting news and they will jump on any hint of a possible change, especially when it involves two high profile individuals like Tubby and Penny. The idea that this could have been discrete in any manner is completely implausible. Sometimes you have to strike when the opportunity presents itself even if it is not the best timing. Perhaps, Penny was legitimately considering accepting a job elsewhere and needed an answer and was not willing to wait for a week or two.

I'm not blaming the admin at all, I'm blaming Penny. Where do you get that idea?

Quote:The idea that this could have been discreet in any manner is completely implausible.

It turns out you are wrong again...and I corrected discreet.

(03-09-2018 01:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:53 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:02 AM)maximus Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:55 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?

Actually ive had to do both

.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.

It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If you have the choice you do it in the most humane and discreet way possible. There was definitely a choice, definitely a better way to go about this.

I do not think you can have this both ways.

Out of one side of your mouth you are saying that Penny and his team leaked this information and out of the other side you are essentially blaming the administration for this becoming public...

It is a high profile job in a high profile industry. It is what it is. Coaching searches are big business for sporting news and they will jump on any hint of a possible change, especially when it involves two high profile individuals like Tubby and Penny. The idea that this could have been discrete in any manner is completely implausible. Sometimes you have to strike when the opportunity presents itself even if it is not the best timing. Perhaps, Penny was legitimately considering accepting a job elsewhere and needed an answer and was not willing to wait for a week or two.

I'm not blaming the admin at all, I'm blaming Penny. Where do you get that idea?

Quote:The idea that this could have been discreet in any manner is completely implausible.

It turns out you are wrong again...and I corrected discreet.

I assume you have more FACTS to back what is really just your opinion...

(03-09-2018 01:57 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 01:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:53 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:02 AM)maximus Wrote:  Actually ive had to do both

.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.

It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If you have the choice you do it in the most humane and discreet way possible. There was definitely a choice, definitely a better way to go about this.

I do not think you can have this both ways.

Out of one side of your mouth you are saying that Penny and his team leaked this information and out of the other side you are essentially blaming the administration for this becoming public...

It is a high profile job in a high profile industry. It is what it is. Coaching searches are big business for sporting news and they will jump on any hint of a possible change, especially when it involves two high profile individuals like Tubby and Penny. The idea that this could have been discrete in any manner is completely implausible. Sometimes you have to strike when the opportunity presents itself even if it is not the best timing. Perhaps, Penny was legitimately considering accepting a job elsewhere and needed an answer and was not willing to wait for a week or two.

I'm not blaming the admin at all, I'm blaming Penny. Where do you get that idea?

Quote:The idea that this could have been discreet in any manner is completely implausible.

It turns out you are wrong again...and I corrected discreet.

I assume you have more FACTS to back what is really just your opinion...

Buddy, learn how to read and get back to me.