Great. He is our coach for the next 20 years and everyone lives happily ever after. IF it doesn't work out, the events of the last few days are a complete embarrassment to our program; make us look as unprofessional and classless as possible, and will hinder any coaching search for basketball (and maybe football) in the future.
It doesn't seem possible that the basketball and football programs are part of the same university. The football coaching searches have been incredible. We did it the right way and would have ended up with McElwain instead of Fuente. The Norvell search was so quiet and was possibly the most efficient, effective coaching search in our entire history.
The searches that netted Porter and Pastner don't count, because they were conducting with knucklehead RC in charge.
This current disaster with Penny is the first time I can think of where I have been ashamed and embarrassed for the university since the whole fiasco with Kirk. The end with Finch was bad but in the end, most knew that Larry was ill and he had spent a long time at the university and it was time. The deal with Tic Price was one person that didn't taint the university. The vacant 2008 Final Four was complete bull**** where we were held to a once in a lifetime standard that was invented for us and hasn't been used since.
This mess with Tubby is disgusting. Obviously, I haven't like Tubby as our coach, but we should be ashamed of the fact that we are treating Tubby like this. Nobody deserves to go through this regardless of how anyone perceives his performance since he was hired. The players also should not have to go through this, I hate it for them.
Who has been leaking this? Rudd and Bowen? Definitely not. The boosters? Also, definitely not. It wouldn't have the legs nationally if it was one booster telling the media that it could happen.
The Penny and Larry Brown rumours are all on Penny. Throughout the coaching search that landed Tubby to right now, Penny has not conducted himself professionally in any shape or form. I am NOT being critical of him not sending players to us, but the way he has lobbied for the job with Rudd and Bowen and the latest with him possibly coming on board are nothing short of disgraceful.
So what we know about Penny is that so far he conducts himself outside of generally accepted parameters of doing business. Will he end up paying the price for his current high school roster? Who knows? We do know that at the very least he is operating in a gray area.
Will he represent the university with class if he is our coach? Who knows? What we do know is that he didn't before Tubby was hired and he hasn't in the last few days with all of the leaks that have gone out.
So, if Penny is our coach, I'm on board, and I'm hoping for the best. I am optimistic that he can put a good product on the court but I am not so optimistic that he will do things the right way, follow the rules and keep us out of trouble.
Flame away.
(03-08-2018 07:36 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ]Great. He is our coach for the next 20 years and everyone lives happily ever after. IF it doesn't work out, the events of the last few days are a complete embarrassment to our program; make us look as unprofessional and classless as possible, and will hinder any coaching search for basketball (and maybe football) in the future.
It doesn't seem possible that the basketball and football programs are part of the same university. The football coaching searches have been incredible. We did it the right way and would have ended up with McElwain instead of Fuente. The Norvell search was so quiet and was possibly the most efficient, effective coaching search in our entire history.
The searches that netted Porter and Pastner don't count, because they were conducting with knucklehead RC in charge.
This current disaster with Penny is the first time I can think of where I have been ashamed and embarrassed for the university since the whole fiasco with Kirk. The end with Finch was bad but in the end, most knew that Larry was ill and he had spent a long time at the university and it was time. The deal with Tic Price was one person that didn't taint the university. The vacant 2008 Final Four was complete bull**** where we were held to a once in a lifetime standard that was invented for us and hasn't been used since.
This mess with Tubby is disgusting. Obviously, I haven't like Tubby as our coach, but we should be ashamed of the fact that we are treating Tubby like this. Nobody deserves to go through this regardless of how anyone perceives his performance since he was hired. The players also should not have to go through this, I hate it for them.
Who has been leaking this? Rudd and Bowen? Definitely not. The boosters? Also, definitely not. It wouldn't have the legs nationally if it was one booster telling the media that it could happen.
The Penny and Larry Brown rumours are all on Penny. Throughout the coaching search that landed Tubby to right now, Penny has not conducted himself professionally in any shape or form. I am NOT being critical of him not sending players to us, but the way he has lobbied for the job with Rudd and Bowen and the latest with him possibly coming on board are nothing short of disgraceful.
So what we know about Penny is that so far he conducts himself outside of generally accepted parameters of doing business. Will he end up paying the price for his current high school roster? Who knows? We do know that at the very least he is operating in a gray area.
Will he represent the university with class if he is our coach? Who knows? What we do know is that he didn't before Tubby was hired and he hasn't in the last few days with all of the leaks that have gone out.
So, if Penny is our coach, I'm on board, and I'm hoping for the best. I am optimistic that he can put a good product on the court but I am not so optimistic that he will do things the right way, follow the rules and keep us out of trouble.
Flame away.
Opinions that are passed off as FACTS are always the best...
Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.
I agree it should have just been kept quiet until after tubby flames out in the tournament. I don’t feel sorry for tubby at all however. Screw that useless sack, but it should have been allowed to play out for the players. I’m not sure that I would say it wasn’t the boosters that started the leaks though. I know the local media were all claiming multiple boosters.
What was the lobbying part with Rudd and Bowen? I remember him not offering a comment when asked before but don’t remember reading anything else.
(03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.
I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.
Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.
I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.
I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.
Usually agree with you Stammers but honestly. I don’t care at this point how it looks. People are gonna think what they think. Tons of outside people thought Cal was doing something illegal here but it was fun as hell. If Penny wins he wins, if he doesn’t he doesn’t. But it’s fun to be excited about Tiger Basketball again
Two years ago (even one year ago) it wasn’t worth the risk. Today it is, IMO. There’s about 18 ways this could go wrong but it beats the trajectory we are on now.
I agree its not the best look but how long does that last? It'll be yesterday's news next week. As far as how this leaked, who knows. I'm sure any number of people were aware of this from Bill Laurie to Penny's trainer. And I'd wager they told people who told people all on the condition that the info was in confidence and should go no further. All we know, IMO, is that it got out. And we both agree that it makes it uncomfortable for all concerned.
(03-08-2018 07:59 AM)UMTiger02 Wrote: [ -> ]Usually agree with you Stanmers but honestly. I don’t care at this point how it looks. People are gonna think what they think. Tons of outside people thought Cal was doing something illegal here but it was fun as hell. If Penny wins he wins, I’d he doesn’t he doesn’t. But it’s fun to be excited about Tiger Basketball again
I wouldn't care as much how it looks if it was something that was necessary or it was something that was 1 month away. I do care very much that potentially, this could have waited until dinner time tonight or tomorrow and it wouldn't have changed a thing.
The only thing it would have changed is a major difference between our program being a circus and treating Tubby like complete crap and doing things the right way.
Our PLAYERS also have a game to play today. This is also extremely unfair to them. We are either going to kill USF or get killed.
(03-08-2018 07:56 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.
I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.
Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.
I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.
I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.
Possible reasons for the admin and/or boosters to leak this instead of Penny:
1.) Admin leaks it simply to test the water with fans and see how the national media picks up on it. This allows them to gauge whether public perception of the firing of Tubby and hiring of Penny will play out positively, negatively or neutral. How it would be spun would certainly be a concern of the admin, so it makes sense to test the waters a little before diving in.
2.) A booster or two good reasonably have leaked this due to a lack of consensus or agreement from other booster and/or admin. In this case, the booster(s) would be using it as a power play. In this scenario the booster(s) believe it will be positively viewed so they leak it to put extreme pressure on the admin and other boosters to get behind firing Tubby at the end of the season.
IMO, both are perfectly reasonable explanations for the admin or booster leaking this. Could it have been Penny leaking the info in a similar manner or for a similar purpose as reason 2 I listed, sure, but the only people who know are the ones who actually received the info and I believe they have been saying it was boosters thus far.
(03-08-2018 08:10 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018 07:56 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018 07:49 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote: [ -> ]Stammers, generally I love your posts but this one, as far as I can tell, is filled with assumptions without any actual evidence. That being the case there's really not much to reasonably discuss.
I hope we all agree that there is no way the admin would have leaked this to Calkins, Parrish, Martin or Smith. It also doesn't add up to think that a booster or boosters called all of the above simultaneously.
Nobody is going to have evidence of anything, but I do know what was told to me about Penny's actions before Tubby was hired. If you or anyone else knows this to be not true, you are perfectly free to respond by saying that what I'm saying isn't true.
I don't know how the questions of eligibility are going to play out with Penny's players, but I do know for sure that he is operating in a gray area.
I would also hope that we all agree that this is a horrible look for us in the media.
Possible reasons for the admin and/or boosters to leak this instead of Penny:
1.) Admin leaks it simply to test the water with fans and see how the national media picks up on it. This allows them to gauge whether public perception of the firing of Tubby and hiring of Penny will play out positively, negatively or neutral. How it would be spun would certainly be a concern of the admin, so it makes sense to test the waters a little before diving in.
2.) A booster or two good reasonably have leaked this due to a lack of consensus or agreement from other booster and/or admin. In this case, the booster(s) would be using it as a power play. In this scenario the booster(s) believe it will be positively viewed so they leak it to put extreme pressure on the admin and other boosters to get behind firing Tubby at the end of the season.
IMO, both are perfectly reasonable explanations for the admin or booster leaking this. Could it have been Penny leaking the info in a similar manner or for a similar purpose as reason 2 I listed, sure, but the only people who know are the ones who actually received the info and I believe they have been saying it was boosters thus far.
#1 doesn't seem plausible. I agree that #2 is possible. Again though, I would love if someone who has heard that Penny didn't act as I said he did before Tubby was hired, refutes what I say. I suppose that anyone could, but from what I heard, Penny was extremely aggressive before Tubby was hired.
It's business
Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.
If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.
He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.
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Please explain what's wrong with "extremely aggressive"...
(03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote: [ -> ]It's business
Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.
If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.
He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
The Star Tribune out of Minneapolis has an article on Tubby and this whole situation. From the article and the comments, they think the game has passed him by and that Tubby just needs to retire.
http://www.startribune.com/is-tubby-smit...476132873/
(03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote: [ -> ]It's business
Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.
If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.
He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?
(03-08-2018 08:55 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote: [ -> ]It's business
Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.
If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.
He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?
Actually ive had to do both
.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.
It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.
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My opinion, was leaked by Penny camp. Tubby may be in job trouble, penny’s team getting out in front of it through press. I could see letting tubby go. Can’t see hiring a coach with 3 years high school resume ( and aau) .
(03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote: [ -> ]It's business
Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.
If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.
He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
The University puts out a product that is supported by its fanbase.
The quality of that product has suffered greatly, and as such...the image of the University is being damaged.
We aren't getting Memphis kids now...and there is no reason to believe that that will change any time soon.
I like Tubby as a coach...but the big knock on him has always been recruiting. Since he got to Memphis, he has resisted the calls of Memphians to recruit more locally by and large...with a few notable exceptions that he appears to be whiffing on completely.
Tubby sealed his fate when he spoke up foolishly on transfers.
He has already ticked off boosters, froze out the media...and now possibly players themselves.He himself has taken off for better jobs in the past at the drop of a hat...so what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
I initially supported the hiring of Tubby, as I figured he might still have a lot left in the tank...but there is no indication that this will ever get better.
There is no guarantee that this wasn't going to be a messy divorce. We dunno what kinds of excuses that the pro-Tubby people would have come out with...but we do know it would have gotten ugly.
The faster we put an end to this whole thing the better.
I'm not sold on Penny being the answer yet..but if he is named Coach at Memphis...I will support him and his program.
Penny made it known that he was ready to be a head coach. Memphis isn't the only place that might be looking to hire a head coach, so I don't blame Penny for letting his interest be known. If Tubby weren't so dreadful it wouldn't be an issue.
(03-08-2018 09:02 AM)maximus Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018 08:55 AM)Stammers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018 08:41 AM)maximus Wrote: [ -> ]It's business
Tubs performance has been abysmal and speaks for itself.
If you have a low performing employee... they have to prove they belong and not simply belong and repeat the same song and verse.
He will get a buy out and have a grin on his face as he walks off.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Do you fire an employee after almost everyone has left or escort him out of the building, carrying a cardboard box with his possessions in front of 400 employees?
Actually ive had to do both
.. but after they went through action plans to change their ways and show improvement. No improvement over a period of time... documentation to file of continued behaviors or lack of performance... HR signs off and then they hit the road after I sit down with them.
It's never easy but it's the nature of the beast.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
If you have the choice you do it in the most humane and discreet way possible. There was definitely a choice, definitely a better way to go about this.