The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Waldo averaged about 23,000 fans per home game in 2016, far from packed and a lot of those fans leave at halftime or just after.

2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

Both of those teams were huge winners and the fans made a weak effort to support both of them.

I will say that WMU had about 50,000 fans at Ford Field for the MACC game and had a ton at the Cotton Bowl which baffles me even more. The MAC tournament in Cleveland in 2014 had far more WMU fans than any home game that season. If fans are willing to travel to support the Broncos why don't they do a better job supporting them at home?

Here’s another video of the CoC game in 2004. Still get chills seeing the crowd size and intensity. Hasn’t happened since. I believe the court rush at the end was the last time that happened too. Place was bonkers. Hope to see it again some time in my lifetime.

https://youtu.be/s_YPfWC2NHs

(03-08-2018 06:13 AM)brovol Wrote:  The top ranked teams in hockey lose to middle of the pack schools from other conference too. What's your point?

The MAC as a whole regularly beats the Power 5 in football. I'd still rather be an Arkansas then an NIU.

(03-08-2018 06:13 AM)brovol Wrote:  Except for last season, we have been finishing near the bottom of the NCHC. Is that what you think is successful?

No one is saying that at all.

(03-08-2018 06:13 AM)brovol Wrote:  The "injury" defense is getting a bit old for hockey and football. These are team sports. Depth is a big part of having a successful program.

Bottom line is any team needs its top players to be successful. I've seen NHL pro teams that had lots of success in the regular season have their top players disappear in the playoffs. These teams' depth showed up, contributed, and scored in the playoffs, but because their top players were non existent in play or injured, they lost.

Honestly I don't hear the injury excuse too much on these boards. Football it's usually 'our coaching sucks', and hockey it's usually 'the NCHC is too hard

Here's my analysis of the Big 3 this year (and as a whole for basketball)
Football: This season was going to be rough with veteran QBs and WR's out graduated. Breaking a freshman QB into the MAC is always tough. Once the injury bug hit (including at QB), the season was lost.

Basketball: The MAC eats its young. How many really good freshman have we got, and we've been excited for their sophomore season, and they ended up transferring out of the MAC as a whole.

Hockey: Last season we had climbed out of the bottom. We roared in the first half, then the injuries it and we struggled. I don't see how injuries to top players can't be a blame.

(03-08-2018 06:13 AM)brovol Wrote:  And if you don't think that we have a competitive disadvantage relative to the top teams in the NCHC, why is it that we are perennial bottom feeders? Oh ya, "injuries".

No one is saying we don't. People are saying we can still get good despite the competitive disadvantage.

(03-08-2018 05:34 PM)Flashboski Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 03:23 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 01:32 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:47 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  Basketball just isn't big at WMU. There is absolutely zero organization to the student section, the seats are uncomfortable, and we're usually not that good, so why would students show up?

Wow!! That is the kind of response I would expect from my 10 year old niece.

There are probably about 57 ways you can find out when the games are, if the seats are that uncomfortable bring yourself a seat cushion, and the Broncos win the MAC west more often than not during Coach Hawkins tenure and have won 2 conference championships so if that isn't that good I don't know what to tell you.

Nobody cares about an average MAC basketball team, yes I show up with my buddies for the games because we like basketball and like supporting WMU but the rest of the students DO NOT CARE. Winning the MAC west means jackshit as far as I'm concerned, might as well be bragging for being better than half the conference. You see it with hockey and sometimes football, students show up to hockey because we win and we have a good student section atmosphere. Beating Michigan St @Lawson this year was awesome and the student section was rocking.

The Force is strong with this one. Well said. I especially love the comment about the West titles. So sick of hearing about meaningless West titles.

I don't understand why so many say that MAC west titles are meaningless. Would you rather have it that the Broncos never win the MAC west? Go tell Coach Hawkins and the players that MAC west titles are meaningless and see what they tell you. Granted, they don't mean as much as conference titles but to say they are meaningless just doesn't make sense.

(03-08-2018 05:47 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Waldo averaged about 23,000 fans per home game in 2016, far from packed and a lot of those fans leave at halftime or just after.

2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

Both of those teams were huge winners and the fans made a weak effort to support both of them.

I will say that WMU had about 50,000 fans at Ford Field for the MACC game and had a ton at the Cotton Bowl which baffles me even more. The MAC tournament in Cleveland in 2014 had far more WMU fans than any home game that season. If fans are willing to travel to support the Broncos why don't they do a better job supporting them at home?

probably because more "fans" would rather see WMU play Wisconsin than watch them play Georgia Southern... just a guess tho.

Also, we play in the MAC, watching WMU kick the **** out of Buffalo in late November really doesn't have all that much appeal. You have to remember every team that we played that year we ran them off the field. Imagine if WMU played a p5 team at home late in the season, guarantee there would have been riots in the street.

(03-08-2018 03:01 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Winning solves everything... period.

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Yep!!!!!
Take a look at the Red Wings and Blackhawks. Blackhawks fans: non-existent up until 2008ish. Red Wings fans: they've fallen off the map.

(03-08-2018 01:36 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 08:04 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(03-07-2018 05:02 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  It doesn't matter how good the Broncos are, the fans will not come.

I don't agree with this. -WMU student section, 2003-2004

2003-2004?!!! How about something in the last 10 years. The support by the students and the community is poor for football and hockey and even worse for basketball. If the particular team in a particular season is very good or better then the attendance is ok. If the team is less than very good the attendance is horrible.

Support by the students for hockey is poor? What are you smoking?

(03-08-2018 01:32 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:47 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  Basketball just isn't big at WMU. There is absolutely zero organization to the student section, the seats are uncomfortable, and we're usually not that good, so why would students show up?

Wow!! That is the kind of response I would expect from my 10 year old niece.

There are probably about 57 ways you can find out when the games are, if the seats are that uncomfortable bring yourself a seat cushion, and the Broncos win the MAC west more often than not during Coach Hawkins tenure and have won 2 conference championships so if that isn't that good I don't know what to tell you.

I agree!!!!!!!! We may not be too good in regards to Top 25, but we're pretty competitive.

(03-08-2018 11:29 AM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Campuses nation wide are struggling with student participation. The access to instant entertainment has driven down not only sports ticket sales, but less students are heading out to see plays, concerts, speakers, etc...

Dunn used to talk about this all the time with the other MAC presidents. There are no answers.

Yep, I always see 'NHL Attendance: Down', 'NFL Attendance: Down', 'Move Theater Attendance: Down', whole 9 yards.

(03-08-2018 10:02 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Or a football opener against Indiana State won't draw 30K+ like it did in the early 2000s. It's just the way of the industry now.

You can thank the fire marshall for that.

Coming off the Cotton Bowl, had we beat Southern Cal in Game 1 this year, I think we'd have had ENORMOUS attendance at Waldo vs Wagner.

(03-08-2018 09:47 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  Basketball just isn't big at WMU.

I think some of the struggle with basketball in particular at WMU is Michigan just isn't a basketball state. Outside of MSU basketball, no one really cares about the rest of the NCAA basketball or the NBA. I couldn't even tell you UofM's coach.

[/quote]
I don't understand why so many say that MAC west titles are meaningless. Would you rather have it that the Broncos never win the MAC west? Go tell Coach Hawkins and the players that MAC west titles are meaningless and see what they tell you. Granted, they don't mean as much as conference titles but to say they are meaningless just doesn't make sense.
[/quote]

Because people brag about them on here and use them to defend hawkins much of the time. I don't think they're meaningless, just think their value is overinflated.

[/quote]

I think some of the struggle with basketball in particular at WMU is Michigan just isn't a basketball state. Outside of MSU basketball, no one really cares about the rest of the NCAA basketball or the NBA. I couldn't even tell you UofM's coach.
[/quote]



Definitely a hockey/football dominated state. Could be part of the issue.

(03-08-2018 03:23 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 01:32 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:47 AM)Fthechips Wrote:  Basketball just isn't big at WMU. There is absolutely zero organization to the student section, the seats are uncomfortable, and we're usually not that good, so why would students show up?

Wow!! That is the kind of response I would expect from my 10 year old niece.

There are probably about 57 ways you can find out when the games are, if the seats are that uncomfortable bring yourself a seat cushion, and the Broncos win the MAC west more often than not during Coach Hawkins tenure and have won 2 conference championships so if that isn't that good I don't know what to tell you.

Nobody cares about an average MAC basketball team, yes I show up with my buddies for the games because we like basketball and like supporting WMU but the rest of the students DO NOT CARE. Winning the MAC west means jackshit as far as I'm concerned, might as well be bragging for being better than half the conference. You see it with hockey and sometimes football, students show up to hockey because we win and we have a good student section atmosphere. Beating Michigan St @Lawson this year was awesome and the student section was rocking.

Here's why I think the MAC west titles aren't meaningless:

(03-08-2018 05:47 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

While Regular Season Champions, no one was really expecting anything because we win the West so often.

Winning the West has become such a standard, that it's nothing to get excited over.

(03-08-2018 06:02 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  I don't understand why so many say that MAC west titles are meaningless. Would you rather have it that the Broncos never win the MAC west? Go tell Coach Hawkins and the players that MAC west titles are meaningless and see what they tell you. Granted, they don't mean as much as conference titles but to say they are meaningless just doesn't make sense.

Because people brag about them on here and use them to defend hawkins much of the time. I don't think they're meaningless, just think their value is overinflated.
[/quote]

I agree. Winning them isn't a problem, and people who say we don't win anything and suck are wrong when we win them. Period.

(03-08-2018 05:59 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  probably because more "fans" would rather see WMU play Wisconsin than watch them play Georgia Southern... just a guess tho.

Also, we play in the MAC, watching WMU kick the **** out of Buffalo in late November really doesn't have all that much appeal. You have to remember every team that we played that year we ran them off the field. Imagine if WMU played a p5 team at home late in the season, guarantee there would have been riots in the street.

Definitely!!!!
Unfortunately the Top 25 is slammed down everyone's throat due to ESPN and local medias, essentially if you're not in the Top 25 AND are not playing a Top 25 team too, the game is meaningless.

(03-08-2018 05:47 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Waldo averaged about 23,000 fans per home game in 2016, far from packed and a lot of those fans leave at halftime or just after.

2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

Both of those teams were huge winners and the fans made a weak effort to support both of them.

I will say that WMU had about 50,000 fans at Ford Field for the MACC game and had a ton at the Cotton Bowl which baffles me even more. The MAC tournament in Cleveland in 2014 had far more WMU fans than any home game that season. If fans are willing to travel to support the Broncos why don't they do a better job supporting them at home?

Overall point taken, but I don't think there were more than a few hundred WMU fans at that MAC tourney in 2014.

(03-08-2018 05:48 PM)Flashboski Wrote:  Here’s another video of the CoC game in 2004. Still get chills seeing the crowd size and intensity. Hasn’t happened since. I believe the court rush at the end was the last time that happened too. Place was bonkers. Hope to see it again some time in my lifetime.

https://youtu.be/s_YPfWC2NHs

That is still the best game atmosphere I have ever been a part of at WMU in any sport. Beats anything at Waldo, including the sellouts in the late 90s/early 2000s and anything during 2016.

(03-08-2018 07:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 05:47 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Waldo averaged about 23,000 fans per home game in 2016, far from packed and a lot of those fans leave at halftime or just after.

2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

Both of those teams were huge winners and the fans made a weak effort to support both of them.

I will say that WMU had about 50,000 fans at Ford Field for the MACC game and had a ton at the Cotton Bowl which baffles me even more. The MAC tournament in Cleveland in 2014 had far more WMU fans than any home game that season. If fans are willing to travel to support the Broncos why don't they do a better job supporting them at home?

Overall point taken, but I don't think there were more than a few hundred WMU fans at that MAC tourney in 2014.

I'm guessing you were there. I was as well. The championship game had way more than a couple hundred WMU fans there.

(03-08-2018 09:35 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 05:47 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Waldo averaged about 23,000 fans per home game in 2016, far from packed and a lot of those fans leave at halftime or just after.

2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

Both of those teams were huge winners and the fans made a weak effort to support both of them.

I will say that WMU had about 50,000 fans at Ford Field for the MACC game and had a ton at the Cotton Bowl which baffles me even more. The MAC tournament in Cleveland in 2014 had far more WMU fans than any home game that season. If fans are willing to travel to support the Broncos why don't they do a better job supporting them at home?

Overall point taken, but I don't think there were more than a few hundred WMU fans at that MAC tourney in 2014.

I'm guessing you were there. I was as well. The championship game had way more than a couple hundred WMU fans there.

I was. The entire attendance was just over 5k. Mostly Toledo fans. I really think 1000 would be a generous number

(03-08-2018 10:46 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 09:35 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 07:48 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 05:47 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-08-2018 03:12 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Too many excuses. Please.

People come out to support winners. Works in every corner of the country.

Waldo was packed in 2016. Look at the attendance numbers. We matched Wisconsin's crowd at the Cotton Bowl and that's no small feat.

Put a great product on the court and they'll come. All the other variables don't matter. Just white noise and excuses.

Waldo averaged about 23,000 fans per home game in 2016, far from packed and a lot of those fans leave at halftime or just after.

2014 Bronco basketball team won the MAC regular season and conference tournament. They had David Brown and Shayne Whittington both in the hunt for MAC player of the year and they averaged under 2700 per home game that season, once again far from packed.

Both of those teams were huge winners and the fans made a weak effort to support both of them.

I will say that WMU had about 50,000 fans at Ford Field for the MACC game and had a ton at the Cotton Bowl which baffles me even more. The MAC tournament in Cleveland in 2014 had far more WMU fans than any home game that season. If fans are willing to travel to support the Broncos why don't they do a better job supporting them at home?

Overall point taken, but I don't think there were more than a few hundred WMU fans at that MAC tourney in 2014.

I'm guessing you were there. I was as well. The championship game had way more than a couple hundred WMU fans there.

I was. The entire attendance was just over 5k. Mostly Toledo fans. I really think 1000 would be a generous number

I was there. Our crowd was ok. But the day was great. The pregame meetup was great.

Cotton bowl drew WMU fans nationally. We had Bronco fans in our hotel from several states. MAC championship at Ford Field drew thousands of Motown area Broncos.

You can't compare attendance from years ago at UA to today. They didn't have 200 channels on air and online covering every sporting event known to mankind. I was at the C of Charleston bracket buster game. I think ESPN had two major national channels and was just venturing into more markets. Look up the best WMU BB team in modern history. The '76 team that beat Va Tech opening round and almost upset Marquette which would have been a date vs undefeated Indiana. The Read attendance that year wasn't shattering. Early games actually didn't draw much at all.

I was at the 2014 MAC Championship game too. We didn't have a ton of fans there. Still a great experience and I wouldn't trade it for being a fan of a Power 5 program.

The best atmosphere games I've been to:
1.) Toledo football 2016 -> That's the gold-standard in what MAC games should be like. Better atmosphere then even hosting Michigan St because Waldo was ALL Bronco fans. PACKED Waldo stadium. Lines and lines and lines of people to get in. Electric.
2.) CCHA Championship over Michigan 2012
3.) Maybe it's nostalgia, but I remember going to Bronco football games when I was younger, and I remember the games being like the Toledo 2016 game. (I probably attended the Indiana St game but that was back when I was more of a casual)
4.) MAC Championship game over Ohio 2016 football. Lot of people. Broke MACC attendance records. Largely WMU fans. Didn't have the energy and atmosphere of the above 3 though.

Unfortunately I haven't been to any games at UA that compare to those. Oakland and CMU always draw great crowds. One of our last home games before the MAC Tourney in 2014 was Eastern, and I remember that game having one of the better UA crowds I've seen.

(03-09-2018 03:00 PM)BuickBronco Wrote:  The '76 team that beat Va Tech opening round and almost upset Marquette which would have been a date vs undefeated Indiana. The Read attendance that year wasn't shattering. Early games actually didn't draw much at all.

Yep, exactly. Things would've been much different if we had a record similar to this year's that year. And if we had that year's record this year, opening the season 10-1 or something, with 2 Ws over NC St and winning that Tourney in North Carolina, you'd have seen Read packed.

(03-09-2018 06:36 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I was at the 2014 MAC Championship game too. We didn't have a ton of fans there. Still a great experience and I wouldn't trade it for being a fan of a Power 5 program.

The best atmosphere games I've been to:
1.) Toledo football 2016 -> That's the gold-standard in what MAC games should be like. Better atmosphere then even hosting Michigan St because Waldo was ALL Bronco fans. PACKED Waldo stadium. Lines and lines and lines of people to get in. Electric.
2.) CCHA Championship over Michigan 2012
3.) Maybe it's nostalgia, but I remember going to Bronco football games when I was younger, and I remember the games being like the Toledo 2016 game. (I probably attended the Indiana St game but that was back when I was more of a casual)
4.) MAC Championship game over Ohio 2016 football. Lot of people. Broke MACC attendance records. Largely WMU fans. Didn't have the energy and atmosphere of the above 3 though.

Unfortunately I haven't been to any games at UA that compare to those. Oakland and CMU always draw great crowds. One of our last home games before the MAC Tourney in 2014 was Eastern, and I remember that game having one of the better UA crowds I've seen.

The atmosphere in and around Waldo when unbeaten No. 12 Marshall and Chad Pennington rolled into town in 99 should be mentioned. It was top caliber.