(12-05-2017 01:16 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 12:14 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 12:07 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 11:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What is also sad is that after seeing how Boz impacted games here, Bailiff did not go out and find another Boz to replace him.
I've walked through a situation on here before where, against SMU just before the half, the threat of Boz got us a touchdown. That is the way to use a kicker, even when he doesn't have to kick.

Care to elaborate? I wasn't at that game (assuming this was the 2012 season)

Right before the half, game was still close, we have about third and 7 on roughly their 25. We throw an incomplete pass, so fourth down, but we hold on the play. Ordinarily SMU would decline and force the 42 yard FG attempt, but Boz is money and June doesn't want to give us 3, so he takes the penalty. Now the FG would be 52, and the normal play call would be for us to throw something short to get an easier field goal. But we know Boz is good out to 60, so we take the deep shot downfield. SMU is sitting at the 10-15 yard depth, because that is the normal call there. So we get open behind them and complete the pass down to around the 5 or so. Next play, we score the TD with about 30 seconds left. Having Boz on our side changed every call until the TD. I was sitting with Kent Rowald, and we both agreed that the threat of Boz got us that touchdown.

Here's the play-by-play of that wondrous drive:

Quote:1st and 10 at RICE 18

(1:56 - 2nd) Taylor McHargue pass complete to Vance McDonald for 12 yards to the Rice 30 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at RICE 30

(1:56 - 2nd) Taylor McHargue pass complete to Turner Petersen for 35 yards to the SMU 35 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at SMU 35

(1:30 - 2nd) Taylor McHargue pass incomplete to Jordan Taylor.
2nd and 10 at SMU 35

(1:20 - 2nd) Taylor McHargue rush for no gain to the SMU 35.
3rd and 10 at SMU 35

(0:40 - 2nd) RICE penalty 10 yard Holding on Nate Richards accepted.
3rd and 20 at SMU 45

(0:30 - 2nd) Taylor McHargue pass complete to Jordan Taylor for 38 yards to the SMU 7 for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at SMU 7

(0:26 - 2nd) Timeout SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY, clock 0:26.
1st and Goal at SMU 7

(0:20 - 2nd) Taylor McHargue pass complete to Donte Moore for 7 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.

(0:20 - 2nd) Chris Boswell extra point GOOD.

Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

(12-05-2017 04:26 PM)4GOwls Wrote:  Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

(12-05-2017 01:35 PM)I45owl Wrote:  That makes it - decline the call, and it is a 52 yard FG... accept it and hold Rice for no gain, it's a 62 yard FG.

It's a little bit different calculus (I think a coach accepts the penalty almost regardless of who the kicker is), but your conclusion is probably the same.

But that misses the point.

You don't decline it because as you note, its 62 if you take it IF you hold them.... but the defense on 3rd down now is expecting Rice to try and get a few of those yards back.... hopefully something like 10-15, so that is where the defense sits. They're at 12 yards and jumping every 'out'.... so Taylor comes out and fakes the out, the safety takes the bait... and Taylor waltzes behind him.

That's STILL all because they know Rice doesn't need 20 yards just to attempt the FG. In fact, we all know he was good from there, but the opponent knows he's good from anything 5 yards closer. We MIGHT run it. More likely we will try a quick throw. The out, the stop, the bubble, the screen... The line is not attacking and the defense is all facing the QB.

It wasn't the penalty that made the difference, but the play calls available to the offense because of the leg

If his career long were 48, they aren't covering the short stuff at all. They're sitting between 10 and 20, bringing pressure and expecting something deeper. They wouldn't respect the run at all

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:26 PM)4GOwls Wrote:  Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

(12-06-2017 11:51 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:26 PM)4GOwls Wrote:  Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

Yes, Margus Hunt. Not sure if he played in 2013, but Zach Line was playing for SMU that year.

No Margus Hunt (2009-2012), No Zach Line (2009-2012, but his brother was a RB in 2013), No Cole Beaseley (2008-2011)
SMU Athletics

Quote:2 Deion Sanders Jr. WR 5-7 180 FR Atlanta, Ga. / Atlanta Sports Academy
11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6-4 223 SR Austin, Texas / Texas

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)I45owl Wrote:  No Margus Hunt (2009-2012), No Zach Line (2009-2012, but his brother was a RB in 2013), No Cole Beaseley (2008-2011)
SMU Athletics

Quote:2 Deion Sanders Jr. WR 5-7 180 FR Atlanta, Ga. / Atlanta Sports Academy
11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6-4 223 SR Austin, Texas / Texas

Actually, the game in question was in the fall of 2012 which would imply that Hunt and Line were on the team at SMU for that game.

(12-06-2017 11:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:35 PM)I45owl Wrote:  It's a little bit different calculus (I think a coach accepts the penalty almost regardless of who the kicker is), but your conclusion is probably the same.

But that misses the point.

I didn't miss it, I just didn't address it. I simply said it makes it different, and specifically just whether to accept or decline the penalty, not the defense on the following play.

Owlnumbers disagreed with my contention that they decline the penalty and allow a 52 yard attempt from every kicker not named Hambone or Boz, and I can accept that he is more likely to be right on that point than I am. I think most coaches would prefer to either get the punt now, or accept the high likelihood of a missed FG and get the ball at the 35 yard line (with some small chance that you give up 3 points and get the ball back with 30 seconds).

(12-06-2017 12:13 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)I45owl Wrote:  No Margus Hunt (2009-2012), No Zach Line (2009-2012, but his brother was a RB in 2013), No Cole Beaseley (2008-2011)
SMU Athletics

Quote:2 Deion Sanders Jr. WR 5-7 180 FR Atlanta, Ga. / Atlanta Sports Academy
11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6-4 223 SR Austin, Texas / Texas

Actually, the game in question was in the fall of 2012 which would imply that Hunt and Line were on the team at SMU for that game.

argh... I saw 2013 and ran on assumptions without double-checking the date...Gilbert did play in 2012, FWIW, but Sanders was not there...

(12-06-2017 12:24 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:13 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)I45owl Wrote:  No Margus Hunt (2009-2012), No Zach Line (2009-2012, but his brother was a RB in 2013), No Cole Beaseley (2008-2011)
SMU Athletics

Quote:2 Deion Sanders Jr. WR 5-7 180 FR Atlanta, Ga. / Atlanta Sports Academy
11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6-4 223 SR Austin, Texas / Texas

Actually, the game in question was in the fall of 2012 which would imply that Hunt and Line were on the team at SMU for that game.

argh... I saw 2013 and ran on assumptions without double-checking the date...Gilbert did play in 2012, FWIW, but Sanders was not there...

No worries, I shouldn't have mentioned 2013 as that just confuses things.

Ah, Garrett Gilbert...Rice played against him while he played for two different schools (Texas and SMU). Interesting to think that he could have won a NC for Texas against Alabama as a freshman.

(12-06-2017 12:31 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:24 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:13 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 12:11 PM)I45owl Wrote:  No Margus Hunt (2009-2012), No Zach Line (2009-2012, but his brother was a RB in 2013), No Cole Beaseley (2008-2011)
SMU Athletics

Quote:2 Deion Sanders Jr. WR 5-7 180 FR Atlanta, Ga. / Atlanta Sports Academy
11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6-4 223 SR Austin, Texas / Texas

Actually, the game in question was in the fall of 2012 which would imply that Hunt and Line were on the team at SMU for that game.

argh... I saw 2013 and ran on assumptions without double-checking the date...Gilbert did play in 2012, FWIW, but Sanders was not there...

No worries, I shouldn't have mentioned 2013 as that just confuses things.

Ah, Garrett Gilbert...Rice played against him while he played for two different schools (Texas and SMU). Interesting to think that he could have won a NC for Texas against Alabama as a freshman.

Zac Line was there. His fumble in the end zone on what I think was SMU's first possession of the third quarter was probably the deciding play in the game.

(12-06-2017 11:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:35 PM)I45owl Wrote:  That makes it - decline the call, and it is a 52 yard FG... accept it and hold Rice for no gain, it's a 62 yard FG.
It's a little bit different calculus (I think a coach accepts the penalty almost regardless of who the kicker is), but your conclusion is probably the same.

But that misses the point.
You don't decline it because as you note, its 62 if you take it IF you hold them.... but the defense on 3rd down now is expecting Rice to try and get a few of those yards back.... hopefully something like 10-15, so that is where the defense sits. They're at 12 yards and jumping every 'out'.... so Taylor comes out and fakes the out, the safety takes the bait... and Taylor waltzes behind him.
That's STILL all because they know Rice doesn't need 20 yards just to attempt the FG. In fact, we all know he was good from there, but the opponent knows he's good from anything 5 yards closer. We MIGHT run it. More likely we will try a quick throw. The out, the stop, the bubble, the screen... The line is not attacking and the defense is all facing the QB.
It wasn't the penalty that made the difference, but the play calls available to the offense because of the leg
If his career long were 48, they aren't covering the short stuff at all. They're sitting between 10 and 20, bringing pressure and expecting something deeper. They wouldn't respect the run at all

Exactly. He changed the calculus for both coaches. That's called a weapon. When you have to game plan for the other team's kicker, he is definitely impacting the outcome of the game.

Glad to get the agreement of an outstanding kicker. For the record, I don't really disagree with I45 either (heck I was 10 yards off in my memory). But I think against Boz you push him back from 52 to 62, whereas with most kickers you're fine letting them try 52. The interesting decision would have been what if the pass is incomplete, do we give Boz a shot from 62? I think the wind was behind, and in that case I probably would have.

(12-06-2017 11:51 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:26 PM)4GOwls Wrote:  Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

Margus Hunt is still in the league, and appears to still be a rotation lineman for the Colts. He also blocked a Chris Boswell extra point in November that was almost returned for 2-points for the Colts.

https://twitter.com/Colts/status/929801252887601152

I think he might have had 3 blocks last year with the Bengals, if I'm reading the interwebs correctly.

(12-06-2017 03:30 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:51 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:26 PM)4GOwls Wrote:  Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

Margus Hunt is still in the league, and appears to still be a rotation lineman for the Colts. He also blocked a Chris Boswell extra point in November that was almost returned for 2-points for the Colts.

https://twitter.com/Colts/status/929801252887601152

I think he might have had 3 blocks last year with the Bengals, if I'm reading the interwebs correctly.

Still terrorizing Rice kickers eh...

(12-06-2017 03:41 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 03:30 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:51 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:26 PM)4GOwls Wrote:  Three current NFL players mentioned on that drive. An embarrassment of riches!

Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

Margus Hunt is still in the league, and appears to still be a rotation lineman for the Colts. He also blocked a Chris Boswell extra point in November that was almost returned for 2-points for the Colts.

https://twitter.com/Colts/status/929801252887601152

I think he might have had 3 blocks last year with the Bengals, if I'm reading the interwebs correctly.

Still terrorizing Rice kickers eh...

Thanks. Yeah, he was from Eastern Europe and I think had not played football before coming to the states. Obviously he wasn't as versatile as James Casey, but I felt like he was SMU's diamond in the rough James Casey in that no one recruited him for football... he went to SMU for shot put and caught June Jones' eye.

edit: Apparently it's even better than that. According to Wikipedia, he went to Dallas to train (in shot put, discus, and hammer) with the SMU track coach , who had previously trained an Estonian gold medalist. By the time he got there, though, SMU had dropped their men's track program so he couldn't go to SMU for track, but he wanted to keep working with the track coach. So the track coach helped him try out for the football team and he got a scholarship on that basis. Apparently he was 22 by the time he joined the team.

(12-06-2017 03:59 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 03:41 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 03:30 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:51 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

Margus Hunt is still in the league, and appears to still be a rotation lineman for the Colts. He also blocked a Chris Boswell extra point in November that was almost returned for 2-points for the Colts.

https://twitter.com/Colts/status/929801252887601152

I think he might have had 3 blocks last year with the Bengals, if I'm reading the interwebs correctly.

Still terrorizing Rice kickers eh...

Thanks. Yeah, he was from Eastern Europe and I think had not played football before coming to the states. Obviously he wasn't as versatile as James Casey, but I felt like he was SMU's diamond in the rough James Casey in that no one recruited him for football... he went to SMU for shot put and caught June Jones' eye.

Margus was one of my favorite non-Rice CUSA players to watch. Matt Forte (Tulane), Aaron Jones (UTEP), Zak Line (SMU) are also tops. I would have shown more love to Case Keenum if not for the frequent drubbings he bestowed upon our precious Owls.

Dat Nguyen was one of my favorite non-Rice SWC players to watch.

(12-06-2017 02:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The interesting decision would have been what if the pass is incomplete, do we give Boz a shot from 62? I think the wind was behind, and in that case I probably would have.

I remember Hambone wanting Boz to get a record-setting attempt for most of his final season, but it seemed like Bailiff chose not to do so. IMHO, it's hard to not have him try it until he misses one from distance.

SMU gets strange about what sports it keeps. They replaced their baseball field to put in a track stadium around 1980. They discontinued baseball and built up track and now they have discontinued men's track?

Also about SMU, I have been going through my old files and found something I had David Stanley sign and a copy of his obituary from 2005.

(12-06-2017 03:59 PM)texd Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 03:41 PM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 03:30 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:51 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:52 PM)texd Wrote:  Wasn't that also the Cole Beasley season for SMU? And that big guy they had who blocked so many field goals?

e: or maybe I'm confusing my years.

Wasn't that guy from Estonia or something>? Saw he had at least a cup of coffee (and a block) in the league

Margus Hunt is still in the league, and appears to still be a rotation lineman for the Colts. He also blocked a Chris Boswell extra point in November that was almost returned for 2-points for the Colts.

https://twitter.com/Colts/status/929801252887601152

I think he might have had 3 blocks last year with the Bengals, if I'm reading the interwebs correctly.

Still terrorizing Rice kickers eh...

Thanks. Yeah, he was from Eastern Europe and I think had not played football before coming to the states. Obviously he wasn't as versatile as James Casey, but I felt like he was SMU's diamond in the rough James Casey in that no one recruited him for football... he went to SMU for shot put and caught June Jones' eye.

edit: Apparently it's even better than that. According to Wikipedia, he went to Dallas to train (in shot put, discus, and hammer) with the SMU track coach , who had previously trained an Estonian gold medalist. By the time he got there, though, SMU had dropped their men's track program so he couldn't go to SMU for track, but he wanted to keep working with the track coach. So the track coach helped him try out for the football team and he got a scholarship on that basis. Apparently he was 22 by the time he joined the team.

Boswell says he thinks the Bengals were trying to intentionally injure him...

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/1303...injure-him

The Slo-Mo video of the guy kicking Boz's foot is pretty blatant IMO.