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Ohio State or Alabama
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Jericho Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
My difficulty with putting Alabama in, is that it rewards them for essentially not playing good teams. Not intentionally mind you. But everyone seemed fine ranking Auburn ahead of Alabama last week. And then Auburn lost to a good Georgia team. So if you're going to take two from the SEC, shouldn't Auburn be the second choice? But no one's advocating that with three losses (albeit loses to good teams). Still, how can I reconcile taking Alabama instead? Simply because they weren't even good enough to even play Georgia and possibly lose?

Had Auburn won the SEC, you could plausibly argue Auburn is #1 and Alabama is #2 in the conference. And then take two SEC teams. But that didn't happen. Alabama has a good overall record, but couldn't even win its division and has no real signature wins. If you can't even win your own division, its doubtful you belong in the playoffs. And if the team that did win your division doesn't make it in, then you really don't deserve to be in.

I hate how teams that lose conference championship are penalized at the expense of teams that weren't good enough to play in them. The vast majority of the college season is littered with games against mediocre to bad schools. The conference championships normally pit two good teams against each other. and we constantly punish the loser, despite the fact most teams don't play schedules as tough.

I guess the main problem is, if you don't take Alabama, who do you take? Ohio State has a flawed resume. Wisconsin's resume is about as good as Alabams's, but no one seems to really care. Central Florida is an extreme wild card. USC is really not that different from Ohio State. There are options, but all have concerns. In the end, picking between a slew of flawed options, I'd at least take a conference champion. So for me, that means either USC or Ohio State. And for better or worse, I'd side with taking Ohio State (which sucks, since they got gifted a birth in 2016 that they didn't deserve and seemingly got a questionable invite in 2014 too when the committee punted on choosing between two higher ranking Big 12 options. So this would be a third controversial invite for the same school)
12-03-2017 12:51 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
(12-03-2017 12:28 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Auburn and Fresno State losing today hurts Alabama's SOS

No it didn't. It's not the BCS and these are the very last of the comparisons that are made and the issue will be decided before they even dig into this minutia.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 12:54 AM by JRsec.)
12-03-2017 12:53 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
(12-03-2017 12:42 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 12:20 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The Big Ten will get a slot in the playoffs.

^ This. Alabama may deserve it more, but the committee is likely to give it to Ohio State. This gives the Big Ten a representative and engages a broader range of the country.

Here are my guesses for the NY6 lineup:

#1 Clemson (12-1) - Rose
#2 Oklahoma (12-1) - Sugar
#3 Georgia (12-1) - Sugar
#4 Ohio State (11-2) - Rose
#5 Alabama (11-1) - Orange
#6 Wisconsin (12-1) - Cotton
#7 Auburn (10-3) - Peach
#8 USC (11-2) - Fiesta
#9 Penn State (10-2) - Fiesta
#10 Miami (10-2) - Orange
#11 Washington (10-2) - Peach
#12 UCF (12-0) - Cotton

Mine...

1. Clemson - Sugar
2. Oklahoma - Rose
3. Georgia - Rose
4. Ohio St - Sugar
5. Alabama - Orange
6. Wisconsin - Fiesta
7. USC - Fiesta
8. Auburn - Peach
9. Penn St - Peach
10. Miami - Orange
11. Central Florida - Cotton
12. Washington - Cotton
12-03-2017 12:57 AM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
Alabama is probably a better team. But they had a terrible schedule. If the committee wants to send a message they pick tOSU and let it be known that the FCS opponent Alabama choose may have been decisive, and that tOSU played 3 more P5 schools.

That would send the message to the SEC to add another P5 school, get to a 10 minimum rule.
12-03-2017 01:05 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
(12-03-2017 12:51 AM)Jericho Wrote:  My difficulty with putting Alabama in, is that it rewards them for essentially not playing good teams. Not intentionally mind you. But everyone seemed fine ranking Auburn ahead of Alabama last week. And then Auburn lost to a good Georgia team. So if you're going to take two from the SEC, shouldn't Auburn be the second choice? But no one's advocating that with three losses (albeit loses to good teams). Still, how can I reconcile taking Alabama instead? Simply because they weren't even good enough to even play Georgia and possibly lose?

Had Auburn won the SEC, you could plausibly argue Auburn is #1 and Alabama is #2 in the conference. And then take two SEC teams. But that didn't happen. Alabama has a good overall record, but couldn't even win its division and has no real signature wins. If you can't even win your own division, its doubtful you belong in the playoffs. And if the team that did win your division doesn't make it in, then you really don't deserve to be in.

I hate how teams that lose conference championship are penalized at the expense of teams that weren't good enough to play in them. The vast majority of the college season is littered with games against mediocre to bad schools. The conference championships normally pit two good teams against each other. and we constantly punish the loser, despite the fact most teams don't play schedules as tough.

I guess the main problem is, if you don't take Alabama, who do you take? Ohio State has a flawed resume. Wisconsin's resume is about as good as Alabams's, but no one seems to really care. Central Florida is an extreme wild card. USC is really not that different from Ohio State. There are options, but all have concerns. In the end, picking between a slew of flawed options, I'd at least take a conference champion. So for me, that means either USC or Ohio State. And for better or worse, I'd side with taking Ohio State (which sucks, since they got gifted a birth in 2016 that they didn't deserve and seemingly got a questionable invite in 2014 too when the committee punted on choosing between two higher ranking Big 12 options. So this would be a third controversial invite for the same school)

Ohio St. didn't play good teams either.
12-03-2017 01:06 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
Ohio St. was 5-2 vs. teams without losing records and that included Army. They were 1-1 on the road vs. teams with .500 or better records. Alabama was 7-1, including 2 wins on the road (although two of the home wins were 6-6).
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 01:16 AM by bullet.)
12-03-2017 01:15 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
I'm on the fence here. One side of me says OSU because they won the conference. The other side is saying Alabama to cause more controversial talk where 2 P5 conferences are out and one that didn't win the division or conference gets in to blow up playoffs to expand to 8 teams with auto tie for p5 conference champs and the best G5 champ with 2 at large.
12-03-2017 01:15 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
USC is 8-2 vs. teams with .500 or better records (1-2 on the road). Ignoring them as the OP does sounds like he has been listening to ESPN too much.
12-03-2017 01:19 AM
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Jericho Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
(12-03-2017 01:06 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 12:51 AM)Jericho Wrote:  My difficulty with putting Alabama in, is that it rewards them for essentially not playing good teams. Not intentionally mind you. But everyone seemed fine ranking Auburn ahead of Alabama last week. And then Auburn lost to a good Georgia team. So if you're going to take two from the SEC, shouldn't Auburn be the second choice? But no one's advocating that with three losses (albeit loses to good teams). Still, how can I reconcile taking Alabama instead? Simply because they weren't even good enough to even play Georgia and possibly lose?

Had Auburn won the SEC, you could plausibly argue Auburn is #1 and Alabama is #2 in the conference. And then take two SEC teams. But that didn't happen. Alabama has a good overall record, but couldn't even win its division and has no real signature wins. If you can't even win your own division, its doubtful you belong in the playoffs. And if the team that did win your division doesn't make it in, then you really don't deserve to be in.

I hate how teams that lose conference championship are penalized at the expense of teams that weren't good enough to play in them. The vast majority of the college season is littered with games against mediocre to bad schools. The conference championships normally pit two good teams against each other. and we constantly punish the loser, despite the fact most teams don't play schedules as tough.

I guess the main problem is, if you don't take Alabama, who do you take? Ohio State has a flawed resume. Wisconsin's resume is about as good as Alabams's, but no one seems to really care. Central Florida is an extreme wild card. USC is really not that different from Ohio State. There are options, but all have concerns. In the end, picking between a slew of flawed options, I'd at least take a conference champion. So for me, that means either USC or Ohio State. And for better or worse, I'd side with taking Ohio State (which sucks, since they got gifted a birth in 2016 that they didn't deserve and seemingly got a questionable invite in 2014 too when the committee punted on choosing between two higher ranking Big 12 options. So this would be a third controversial invite for the same school)

Ohio St. didn't play good teams either.

That's somewhat true. But pretty much every objective metric says Ohio St played a tougher schedule than Alabama. And Ohio State did beat Penn State and did beat Wisconsin. And one loss was to Oklahoma. All likely teams in the top dozen or so in the rankings. That's at least something.

The difficulty the committee will have is it has stated certain criteria matter. Like winning conference championships. And playing well at the end of the season. And it likes to reward teams for playing tough schedules. But pretty much all those criteria work against Alabama here. Alabama couldn't win its own division, let alone its conference. Alabama lost its last game, which was also against its toughest opponent to date. And it's strength of schedule ranks last among the playoff contenders. So if we base it off the stated criteria, you pretty much can't pick Alabama. Unless you want to throw it all out the window and just pick teams you want based on nebulous criteria (which the committee kind of did already after taking Ohio St over Penn State last year). Though that makes the system even more chaotic then it already is.

Though if you want to argue USC over Ohio State, that's perfectly fine and pretty much a pick 'em in my mind
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 01:26 AM by Jericho.)
12-03-2017 01:24 AM
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Jericho Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Ohio State or Alabama
(12-03-2017 01:15 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I'm on the fence here. One side of me says OSU because they won the conference. The other side is saying Alabama to cause more controversial talk where 2 P5 conferences are out and one that didn't win the division or conference gets in to blow up playoffs to expand to 8 teams with auto tie for p5 conference champs and the best G5 champ with 2 at large.

Not sure anything here gives any credence to expanding the playoffs. The biggest problem is the committee can't even find 4 deserving teams to fill the existing slots. Expanding it just means more mediocre teams. You only have a good argument to expand when you have at least 5 very good teams. 2014 would be a decent example
12-03-2017 01:28 AM
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