Miami and Cincinnati are completely different schools that focus in different areas. Cincinnati's focus has always been in professional and graduate degrees programs as well as practical undergraduate majors like engineering and business. Miami is rooted a strong liberal arts foundation that provides a solid training ground graduate school.

UC offers a JD and MD, Miami does not. UC offers Phd programs in Engineering, Business, Political Science, and Criminal Justice that Miami does not offer.

(09-29-2017 09:00 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Miami and Cincinnati are completely different schools that focus in different areas. Cincinnati's focus has always been in professional and graduate degrees programs as well as practical undergraduate majors like engineering and business. Miami is rooted a strong liberal arts foundation that provides a solid training ground graduate school.

UC offers a JD and MD, Miami does not. UC offers Phd programs in Engineering, Business, Political Science, and Criminal Justice that Miami does not offer.

I agree that Miam is undergrad focused, but I disagree that Miami focuses on liberal arts. They like to call themselves a "liberal arts college," but that is just more of their self-serving branding of which much of it made up nonsense. More of the popped collar crowd pretending they went to a university much more prestigious than it really is. Miami and its students have always been overwhelmingly vocational. When I was in college something like 2/3 of their students majored in business or education, and I doubt it's changed much since then. I'd bet dollars to donuts that one finds a far higher percentage of students at OSU and the other Big 10s majoring in traditional humanities, sciences and social sciences than one finds at Miami.

(09-28-2017 08:50 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Did anyone else notice how Ohio U has tanked to 151?

The biggest issue there is the amount of brain drain they have had. If you look at intake/outflow from a transfer perspective, they are far and away the largest negative net in the state...something that wasn't happening until recently. That has effect graduation and retention rates, which both cause funding vacuums in the state of Ohio that really cannot be filled. Plus, with the downfall of the journalism industry, their most prominent college/department (Scripps College of Communication and Journalism) has fallen flat.

OU also stopped giving full rides to students with above a 30 ACT with a high GPA. Lots of very bright kids from all over used to go there for free until 3 years ago.

You seem to know a lot about which colleges ante up for high-ACT/SAT kids. Please tell us more. Specifically, how is UC in this regard? (BTW, I heard that OSU sucks, and gives kids very little no matter how high their scores are. Accurate?)

(09-29-2017 09:54 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:50 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Did anyone else notice how Ohio U has tanked to 151?

The biggest issue there is the amount of brain drain they have had. If you look at intake/outflow from a transfer perspective, they are far and away the largest negative net in the state...something that wasn't happening until recently. That has effect graduation and retention rates, which both cause funding vacuums in the state of Ohio that really cannot be filled. Plus, with the downfall of the journalism industry, their most prominent college/department (Scripps College of Communication and Journalism) has fallen flat.

OU also stopped giving full rides to students with above a 30 ACT with a high GPA. Lots of very bright kids from all over used to go there for free until 3 years ago.

You seem to know a lot about which colleges ante up for high-ACT/SAT kids. Please tell us more. Specifically, how is UC in this regard? (BTW, I heard that OSU sucks, and gives kids very little no matter how high their scores are. Accurate?)

UC is OK but not great in this regard. If UC is serious about continuing to grow the quality of its student body, it's going to take a concerted effort led by Pinto to focus more of our fundraising on endowed scholarship funds. If we can raise that money, I think instituting a program like Oklahoma did to offer full tuition to any National Merit Finalists (in-state or oos) would do wonders as the competition to improve the classes stiffens.

As for OSU, I think there's a lot of merit aid there because there's a lot of money there. The energy deal money just pushed their endowment past the $5B mark. Like any other university though, it's doled out based on who they need to use it on to attract them to campus. A 30 ACT kid is one that UC or OU really wants on campus to help improve their class profile and they'll shower him with merit aid. At OSU, he's simply half the freshman class. I googled their Honors Program. Last year it had an entering class of 1037 students with a middle 50% ACT range of 32-34 and an average class rank of 98th percentile. That's the equivalent in size and quality of the entering class at Dartmouth. I can't believe that osu is attracting that many students of that quality simply by selling them on being buckeyes. When you get into that rarified air, there has to be some serious scholarship packages being put on the table. Conversely, OSU treats National Merit Finalists the same way Michigan or Wisconsin does. They get nothing automatically. It's simply one item to list on a merit aid application. That's why I think an Oklahoma type program opens a lot of doors for UC. It's not going to lure away those Northwestern/Lower-Ivy quality kids who end up in OSU's Honor's program, but we could make a serious run for some 29-31 ACT National Merit Finalists who don't get full scholarships at OSU. And Oklahoma just cracked the US News top 100 largely based on improved incoming freshman classes and the resulting improvements in retention and grad rates.

(09-30-2017 07:34 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:54 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:50 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Did anyone else notice how Ohio U has tanked to 151?

The biggest issue there is the amount of brain drain they have had. If you look at intake/outflow from a transfer perspective, they are far and away the largest negative net in the state...something that wasn't happening until recently. That has effect graduation and retention rates, which both cause funding vacuums in the state of Ohio that really cannot be filled. Plus, with the downfall of the journalism industry, their most prominent college/department (Scripps College of Communication and Journalism) has fallen flat.

OU also stopped giving full rides to students with above a 30 ACT with a high GPA. Lots of very bright kids from all over used to go there for free until 3 years ago.

You seem to know a lot about which colleges ante up for high-ACT/SAT kids. Please tell us more. Specifically, how is UC in this regard? (BTW, I heard that OSU sucks, and gives kids very little no matter how high their scores are. Accurate?)

UC is OK but not great in this regard. I think instituting a program like Oklahoma did to offer full tuition to any National Merit Finalists (in-state or oos) would do wonders as the competition to improve the classes stiffens.

As for OSU, I think there's a lot of merit aid there because there's a lot of money there. The energy deal money just pushed their endowment past the $5B mark. Like any other university though, it's doled out based on who they need to use it on to attract them to campus. A 30 ACT kid is one that UC or OU really wants on campus to help improve their class profile and they'll shower him with merit aid. At OSU, he's simply half the freshman class. I googled their Honors Program. Last year it had an entering class of 1037 students with a middle 50% ACT range of 32-34 and an average class rank of 98th percentile. That's the equivalent in size and quality of the entering class at Dartmouth. I can't believe that osu is attracting that many students of that quality simply by selling them on being buckeyes. When you get into that rarified air, there has to be some serious scholarship packages being put on the table. Conversely, OSU treats National Merit Finalists the same way Michigan or Wisconsin does. They get nothing automatically. It's simply one thing on their merit aid application. That's why I think an Oklahoma type program opens a lot of doors for UC. It's not going to lure away those Northwestern/Lower-Ivy quality kids who end up in OSU's Honor's program, but we could make a serious run for some 29-31 ACT National Merit Finalists who don't get full scholarships at OSU. And Oklahoma just cracked the US News top 100 largely based on improved incoming freshman classes and the resulting improvements in retention and grad rates.

Its anecdotal, I know, but a good friend of mine has an incoming freshman at OSU, not UC because of what aid was offered. This kid graduated near the top of the class (top 5-ish) with a 4.0+ gpa and a 34 ACT from a very highly regarded high school. UC offered them next to nothing. OSU's offer was very underwhelming, but still more than double what UC put out there. On paper, with the grades, test scores and all the extra-curriculars, we all thought the kid would be practically picking their suitor. Its kind of deflating as I near the time of prepping for our first college application/aid stage. If that kid got nothing, mine will probably get solid "high-five" and maybe good ham sandwich.

(09-30-2017 07:54 AM)Teakwood Wrote:  

(09-30-2017 07:34 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 09:54 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 08:50 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:37 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  The biggest issue there is the amount of brain drain they have had. If you look at intake/outflow from a transfer perspective, they are far and away the largest negative net in the state...something that wasn't happening until recently. That has effect graduation and retention rates, which both cause funding vacuums in the state of Ohio that really cannot be filled. Plus, with the downfall of the journalism industry, their most prominent college/department (Scripps College of Communication and Journalism) has fallen flat.

OU also stopped giving full rides to students with above a 30 ACT with a high GPA. Lots of very bright kids from all over used to go there for free until 3 years ago.

You seem to know a lot about which colleges ante up for high-ACT/SAT kids. Please tell us more. Specifically, how is UC in this regard? (BTW, I heard that OSU sucks, and gives kids very little no matter how high their scores are. Accurate?)

UC is OK but not great in this regard. I think instituting a program like Oklahoma did to offer full tuition to any National Merit Finalists (in-state or oos) would do wonders as the competition to improve the classes stiffens.

As for OSU, I think there's a lot of merit aid there because there's a lot of money there. The energy deal money just pushed their endowment past the $5B mark. Like any other university though, it's doled out based on who they need to use it on to attract them to campus. A 30 ACT kid is one that UC or OU really wants on campus to help improve their class profile and they'll shower him with merit aid. At OSU, he's simply half the freshman class. I googled their Honors Program. Last year it had an entering class of 1037 students with a middle 50% ACT range of 32-34 and an average class rank of 98th percentile. That's the equivalent in size and quality of the entering class at Dartmouth. I can't believe that osu is attracting that many students of that quality simply by selling them on being buckeyes. When you get into that rarified air, there has to be some serious scholarship packages being put on the table. Conversely, OSU treats National Merit Finalists the same way Michigan or Wisconsin does. They get nothing automatically. It's simply one thing on their merit aid application. That's why I think an Oklahoma type program opens a lot of doors for UC. It's not going to lure away those Northwestern/Lower-Ivy quality kids who end up in OSU's Honor's program, but we could make a serious run for some 29-31 ACT National Merit Finalists who don't get full scholarships at OSU. And Oklahoma just cracked the US News top 100 largely based on improved incoming freshman classes and the resulting improvements in retention and grad rates.

Its anecdotal, I know, but a good friend of mine has an incoming freshman at OSU, not UC because of what aid was offered. This kid graduated near the top of the class (top 5-ish) with a 4.0+ gpa and a 34 ACT from a very highly regarded high school. UC offered them next to nothing. OSU's offer was very underwhelming, but still more than double what UC put out there. On paper, with the grades, test scores and all the extra-curriculars, we all thought the kid would be practically picking their suitor. Its kind of deflating as I near the time of prepping for our first college application/aid stage. If that kid got nothing, mine will probably get solid "high-five" and maybe good ham sandwich.

I'm guessing that UC thought the chances were slim and none that he'd attend, so they focused their attention on kids with whom they thought they had a chance. Probably a smart use of their time and effort.

It sounds like OSU is feeling some pressure to put better merit aid packages together too. Their President--who's a real breath of fresh air after Gee--has spoken repeatedly about focusing more of the endowment on "affordability" and has steered their fundraising in that direction. Something that I was thinking of when I edited to say that Pinto needs to be doing likewise. All of the $1B addition to their endowment from the energy deal will be going to financial aid. That's a disbursement of $45M a year. If the low income program eats up a third of that, it looks like they'll have another $30M/year to hand out for merit aid.