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Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 12:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:42 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

It's not a clear case. "Impossibility" isn't necessarily the fact that the game can or can't be played in Jonesboro, but rather whether all parties are able to fulfill all aspects of the agreement and if this is a force majeure situation. Miami could argue that it is a force majeure situation because the fact that they could arrive to play the game doesn't mean that they'd be able to return home. We can argue whether or not it would actually be safer for Miami players to be in Jonesboro when a hurricane is hitting Florida, but regardless of how one feels about those circumstances, Miami could probably reasonably demonstrate that it would incur additional costs for lodging those players longer, re-chartering a jet for a different date, and other expenses that would have not come up but for the force majeure situation. Was Arkansas State offering to meet any of those additional costs that Miami would have incurred (particularly since many of these college football scheduling agreements have fairly specific expense reimbursement clauses)? If so, then Arkansas State might have more of a case. However, if Arkansas State is just relying upon a liquidated damages clause in this situation, claiming that the game could have been played, and stating that the force majeure clause doesn't apply, I don't think that would hold up.

The practical nature of these situations is that the parties will meet somewhere in the middle (e.g. the liquidated damages amount minus the expenses that Miami would have incurred by having to stay additional days in Jonesboro) because neither party has a 100% clear cut case.

Right now I'm hearing Miami's position on damages is sue us.
Inconvenient and impossible aren't the same thing.
I'd say sue them then.

Will probably cost them more in the long run as other G5 AD's get more hesitant about scheduling Miami.

Stiffing a G5 on home game buyout is not a real good look.

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Come on, now. If Miami agrees to play *AT* a G5 stadium, that G5 school is take that deal every single time with or without a clause regarding hurricanes or other weather-related events. Pretty much any G5 school would take *any* P5 game at their own home stadium, much less a high profile one like Miami.
09-06-2017 02:01 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.

Well said...you don't play around with Cat 5 hurricanes.

And by the way, we haven't heard if USF @ UConn will be cancelled yet, but if it is, so be it. This situation is far more important.
09-06-2017 02:04 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 01:41 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Miami is potentially about to be hit by one of the strongest hurricanes EVER, and we are worrying about a football game? Great decision by Miami putting the needs of their players and families first. A large part of their players are from Miami, and their homes are about to get plastered. Football is secondary. Too bad, so sad for Ark State unfortunately, but this is more important...by far. I can't even believe it's up for debate.

They would be evacuating one way or another. Other than worrying if your car is gonna be left behind (a legit concern, those are hard to replace), they would already be going anyways. They wouldn't be taking all of their belongings, just important documents, pictures and maybe a few personal favorite items. So other than worrying about evacuating your car, it makes little difference.

Miami just doesn't want to take the chance of losing to Arkansas State and that's fine.
09-06-2017 02:05 PM
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ark30inf Online
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Post: #34
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:42 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

It's not a clear case. "Impossibility" isn't necessarily the fact that the game can or can't be played in Jonesboro, but rather whether all parties are able to fulfill all aspects of the agreement and if this is a force majeure situation. Miami could argue that it is a force majeure situation because the fact that they could arrive to play the game doesn't mean that they'd be able to return home. We can argue whether or not it would actually be safer for Miami players to be in Jonesboro when a hurricane is hitting Florida, but regardless of how one feels about those circumstances, Miami could probably reasonably demonstrate that it would incur additional costs for lodging those players longer, re-chartering a jet for a different date, and other expenses that would have not come up but for the force majeure situation. Was Arkansas State offering to meet any of those additional costs that Miami would have incurred (particularly since many of these college football scheduling agreements have fairly specific expense reimbursement clauses)? If so, then Arkansas State might have more of a case. However, if Arkansas State is just relying upon a liquidated damages clause in this situation, claiming that the game could have been played, and stating that the force majeure clause doesn't apply, I don't think that would hold up.

The practical nature of these situations is that the parties will meet somewhere in the middle (e.g. the liquidated damages amount minus the expenses that Miami would have incurred by having to stay additional days in Jonesboro) because neither party has a 100% clear cut case.

Right now I'm hearing Miami's position on damages is sue us.
Inconvenient and impossible aren't the same thing.
I'd say sue them then.

Will probably cost them more in the long run as other G5 AD's get more hesitant about scheduling Miami.

Stiffing a G5 on home game buyout is not a real good look.

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Come on, now. If Miami agrees to play *AT* a G5 stadium, that G5 school is take that deal every single time with or without a clause regarding hurricanes or other weather-related events. Pretty much any G5 school would take *any* P5 game at their own home stadium, much less a high profile one like Miami.
Feel free. But I think I'd pass on Miami in the future without a much clearer cancellation process imbedded in the contract.

This cost us a lot...and I'd be very hesitant to sign up to take a second punch.

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09-06-2017 02:05 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
FIU is playing. They moved their home game to B'Ham to play.
09-06-2017 02:10 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #36
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 12:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'd say sue them then.

Will probably cost them more in the long run as other G5 AD's get more hesitant about scheduling Miami.

Stiffing a G5 on home game buyout is not a real good look.

You seriously think that if party A sues a party B that is in the path of a giant hurricane because B decided it was safer to not travel to A, that public sympathy is going to be on the side of party A?

Seriously?

If it comes to that, A will be savaged in the media, online, etc. 07-coffee3

Look, i get it, you and the Ark State community were looking forward to this game, and it sucks to lose it. But the blame is on the hurricane, not Miami. Just feel fortunate your campus, students, faculty, etc. won't be suffering wind and flooding damage.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 02:12 PM by quo vadis.)
09-06-2017 02:10 PM
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ark30inf Online
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Post: #37
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 01:58 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  There is a weather clause in contract to get out of game. The clause does not say that weather has to affect the home team in Arkansas. It just says game can be cancelled due to weather (which just happens to be affecting Miami). Game does not have to be made up if there are no dates available. Read the game contract.

The clause very specifically states that option only exist if it is impossible for Miami to travel to Jonesboro for the game

ESPN offered moving the game up a couple days. Miami refused. By doing that, they must fulfill the buyout.

I'm starting to think that ArkST isn't going to get any money out of this. ESPN and ArkST can't second-guess Miami's decision that it is "impossible" under the circumstances to travel to Jonesboro. That decision can only be made by the school under the hurricane warning, not be second-guessed by anyone else.

And if it goes to court, I doubt a judge would second-guess either.

Plus, the optics of the situation are terrible for Ark State - Miami is under the gun of a major hurricane and you are going to try and squeeze $650k out of them because they have more important things to worry about than a football game? That will look like crass extortion.

The classy thing for Ark State to do is say "we understand Miami has bigger issues right now than a football game, we send our thoughts and prayers hoping that everyone at Miami is safe during the hurricane" and that's the end of it.
Not really concerned about optics or classy or what have you. More interested in contracts and legalities and not losing large amounts of money.

We are not wealthy. We can't just gift P5 programs a home game because of "feelz".



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09-06-2017 02:14 PM
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ark30inf Online
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Post: #38
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'd say sue them then.

Will probably cost them more in the long run as other G5 AD's get more hesitant about scheduling Miami.

Stiffing a G5 on home game buyout is not a real good look.

You seriously think that if party A sues a party B that is in the path of a giant hurricane because B decided it was safer to not travel to A, that public sympathy is going to be on the side of party A?

Seriously?

If it comes to that, A will be savaged in the media, online, etc. 07-coffee3

Look, i get it, you and the Ark State community were looking forward to this game, and it sucks to lose it. But the blame is on the hurricane, not Miami. Just feel fortunate your campus, students, faculty, etc. won't be suffering wind and flooding damage.
Fairly confident that contract law will be almost entirely unaffected by public sympathy as usual.



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09-06-2017 02:16 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #39
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 01:41 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Miami is potentially about to be hit by one of the strongest hurricanes EVER, and we are worrying about a football game? Great decision by Miami putting the needs of their players and families first. A large part of their players are from Miami, and their homes are about to get plastered. Football is secondary. Too bad, so sad for Ark State unfortunately, but this is more important...by far. I can't even believe it's up for debate.

North Korea has a hydrogen bomb and missiles capable of reaching US soil, a nuclear exchange could kill a billion or more in minutes with less than 20 minutes warning and we are worrying about a storm where people have adequate warning to reach safety and leaving only property to be harmed?
09-06-2017 02:18 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #40
RE: Miami at Arkansas St canceled: won't be made up
(09-06-2017 02:16 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 02:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 12:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'd say sue them then.

Will probably cost them more in the long run as other G5 AD's get more hesitant about scheduling Miami.

Stiffing a G5 on home game buyout is not a real good look.

You seriously think that if party A sues a party B that is in the path of a giant hurricane because B decided it was safer to not travel to A, that public sympathy is going to be on the side of party A?

Seriously?

If it comes to that, A will be savaged in the media, online, etc. 07-coffee3

Look, i get it, you and the Ark State community were looking forward to this game, and it sucks to lose it. But the blame is on the hurricane, not Miami. Just feel fortunate your campus, students, faculty, etc. won't be suffering wind and flooding damage.
Fairly confident that contract law will be almost entirely unaffected by public sympathy as usual.

You are the one who raised the issue of how this will look in the 'court of public opinion', so i commented on that.

As for how it will play in a real court, good luck with that. I doubt a judge is going to side with the school not in the path of the hurricane. That "impossible" clause is going to be interpreted very liberally in favor of the school that was, as Frank said, in the 'force majeure' situation.

You'll probably lose in court, and surely on twitter. Hopefully, your admins are smart enough to know this.
09-06-2017 02:21 PM
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