(08-24-2017 12:31 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  There are season tickets in basketball, baseball, football, and so on. There are bowl game tickets, championship game tickets, NIT tickets... not everyone is going to be able to max out and buy 100% of everything. So, we all make decisions about how to allocate our money, and many of us will base these decisions on entertainment value. Maybe I'd rather watch good baseball than bad basketball or mediocre football. Shouldn't make me into some sort of pariah on a frickin' message board.

+1.

I

(08-23-2017 11:31 PM)GatorEagle Wrote:  We have more fans out there than most people realize. We are, however, spread out all over this universe.

Having a high out-of-state resident enrollment can be a great thing for the university, but it sets up trouble for athletics. We bring in a lot of folks with established fan allegiances to other regional flagship state schools, those people finish their degrees, then go back home to put their time & money back into the programs they grew up loving and are rarely even seen again. You can do your best to try to make those students become USM fans first, but getting them to the point where they'll pass on a closer, sexier product in order to support their alma mater is s tough row to hoe. I'm not sure there even is a good solution to this situation. I'm all ears if somebody has one.

Quote:It is funny how much I hear from all my classmates/fraternity brothers/etc. There are a lot of USM'ers out there that are just waiting for a galvanizing moment. There's a reason we've had some flashes of goodness in the 80's, 90's & 00's.

While the bluntness untilized in earlier posts may have offended a few folks, a massive Catch-22 does exist. People want to see better opponents, but said opponents ain't comin' to play in front of sub-30,000 crowds. People want better this and better that as a prerequisite for their support, but better things can't be had without the means to acquire them, all of which require support. There we be no galvanizing moment until enough people get off their asses to facilitate the conditions for one to take place.

I've often used the example of ECU doing a fundraiser by selling imaginary bowl tickets during their lowest point. Their athletic department actually had the audacity to tell people, "You would've spent the money if we'd made a bowl. How about you just contribute it anyway?" And that s*** worked because enough ECU fans care about their school being the best it can be regardless of the circumstances at a given time. Could you imagine the reaction if USM tried something like that?

Getting left out of the ACC should've been a wake-up call to the fact that we need to up our game as fans. Instead, it's become the latest & greatest excuse to hit the snooze button.

Harbor, yours is the best post I have seen on here. Our fans would rather see whore games happen than step up to the plate and do what is necessary to get better...

(08-24-2017 08:08 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  Harbor, yours is the best post I have seen on here. Our fans would rather see whore games happen than step up to the plate and do what is necessary to get better...

ECU fans are not caught up in the S-E-C S-E-C S-E-C bullcrap that envelops Mis'issippi, however...

Besides...When I gradumicated from Hattiesgulch High there were probably 3 or 4 out of 300 who actually pulled for USM....and my buddies and I once went to a USM/Brigham Young game in Jackson where the 5 of us WERE THE STUDENT SECTION!

So...Improvement has been slow but steady....and not having 30K a game was NOT the reason we were not invited to AAC.....'cause if that were the case, there would only be 3 or 4 teams in the league!

(08-24-2017 08:16 PM)eaglebeaver Wrote:  ECU fans are not caught up in the S-E-C S-E-C S-E-C bullcrap that envelops Mis'issippi, however...

Besides...When I gradumicated from Hattiesgulch High there were probably 3 or 4 out of 300 who actually pulled for USM....and my buddies and I once went to a USM/Brigham Young game in Jackson where the 5 of us WERE THE STUDENT SECTION!

So...Improvement has been slow but steady....and not having 30K a game was NOT the reason we were not invited to AAC.....'cause if that were the case, there would only be 3 or 4 teams in the league!

But is the improvement--however slow and greatly outpaced by our former peers--still continuing, or have we crossed the point of no return? That's the low-20s million dollar question.

Absolutely, attendance didn't have a thing to do with AAC inclusion, not directly, anyway. Being left behind did, however, come down mostly to cash flow and the salaries and shiny toys that follow.

The resources for us to be a premiere G5 are there. They just have to be tapped. They also need a willingness to be tapped. I'm not saying it's all "fans' fault," but there has to be some meeting in the middle somewhere along the way.

(08-24-2017 07:54 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  People want to see better opponents, but said opponents ain't comin' to play in front of sub-30,000 crowds. People want better this and better that as a prerequisite for their support, but better things can't be had without the means to acquire them, all of which require support. There we be no galvanizing moment until enough people get off their asses to facilitate the conditions for one to take place.

Getting left out of the ACC should've been a wake-up call to the fact that we need to up our game as fans. Instead, it's become the latest & greatest excuse to hit the snooze button.

You are suggesting that the reason we got left out of the AAC is bc the fans dont support by showing up for games? You cannot seriously believe that can you? Getting left out of the AAC had nothing to do with fan support or the product USM puts on the field. NOTHING.

Some of you guys must live in a fantasy land if you think it is realistic that USM fans should just suddenly get happy and fired up about watching Charlotte and Old Dominion come to The Rock to the point that there are constant sell outs with a rabid crowd every game (esp after 0-33). Sorry guys, im not blaming the fans on that one. Generally, USM fans are pretty cheap and tight, but i cant blame them for not selling out CUSA games....or Savannah State(s). Sure, fans need to step up, but come on, man.

(08-24-2017 08:45 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:16 PM)eaglebeaver Wrote:  ECU fans are not caught up in the S-E-C S-E-C S-E-C bullcrap that envelops Mis'issippi, however...

Besides...When I gradumicated from Hattiesgulch High there were probably 3 or 4 out of 300 who actually pulled for USM....and my buddies and I once went to a USM/Brigham Young game in Jackson where the 5 of us WERE THE STUDENT SECTION!

So...Improvement has been slow but steady....and not having 30K a game was NOT the reason we were not invited to AAC.....'cause if that were the case, there would only be 3 or 4 teams in the league!

But is the improvement--however slow and greatly outpaced by our former peers--still continuing, or have we crossed the point of no return? That's the low-20s million dollar question.

Absolutely, attendance didn't have a thing to do with AAC inclusion, not directly, anyway. Being left behind did, however, come down mostly to cash flow and the salaries and shiny toys that follow.

The resources for us to be a premiere G5 are there. They just have to be tapped. They also need a willingness to be tapped. I'm not saying it's all "fans' fault," but there has to be some meeting in the middle somewhere along the way.

Good points Harbor....but you missed one thing concerning the cash flow/salaries/shiny toys....We apparently never had any rapport or "gentlemen's agreements " with our longtime rivals, something we obviously had when we were invited to the old Metro (There were much more recognizable members in Metro, and we certainly had NOTHING to offer them back then)!

Friendships and trust among University Presidents and AD's can go a long way in curing supposed weak links in a university's resume.

Apparently our longtime rivals just avoided us like the plague.

(08-24-2017 07:54 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:31 PM)GatorEagle Wrote:  We have more fans out there than most people realize. We are, however, spread out all over this universe.

Having a high out-of-state resident enrollment can be a great thing for the university, but it sets up trouble for athletics. We bring in a lot of folks with established fan allegiances to other regional flagship state schools, those people finish their degrees, then go back home to put their time & money back into the programs they grew up loving and are rarely even seen again. You can do your best to try to make those students become USM fans first, but getting them to the point where they'll pass on a closer, sexier product in order to support their alma mater is s tough row to hoe. I'm not sure there even is a good solution to this situation. I'm all ears if somebody has one.

Most our in-state students aren't USM fans either. Unless they grew up as a legacy rooting for USM, most are Ole Miss or State fans with some Bama and LSU thrown in for good measure.

Maybe I'm off here, but I'm all for loading up on OOS students. I'd bet their test scores are higher than the MS students, and I find that they don't care any less about USM athletics than most of our in-state students.

(08-24-2017 08:52 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 07:54 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  People want to see better opponents, but said opponents ain't comin' to play in front of sub-30,000 crowds. People want better this and better that as a prerequisite for their support, but better things can't be had without the means to acquire them, all of which require support. There we be no galvanizing moment until enough people get off their asses to facilitate the conditions for one to take place.

Getting left out of the ACC should've been a wake-up call to the fact that we need to up our game as fans. Instead, it's become the latest & greatest excuse to hit the snooze button.

You are suggesting that the reason we got left out of the AAC is bc the fans dont support by showing up for games? You cannot seriously believe that can you? Getting left out of the AAC had nothing to do with fan support or the product USM puts on the field. NOTHING.

You guy must live in a fantasy land if you think it is realistic that USM fans should just suddenly get happy and fired up about watching Charlotte and Old Dominion come to The Rock to the point that there are constant sell outs with a rabid crowd every game (esp after 0-33). Sorry guys, im not blaming the fans on that one. Generally, USM fans are pretty cheap and tight, but i cant blame them for not selling out CUSA games....or Savannah State(s). Sure, fans need to step up, but come on, man.

This guy is a perfect example of why we are where we are...I rest my case.

(08-24-2017 08:08 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  Harbor, yours is the best post I have seen on here. Our fans would rather see whore games happen than step up to the plate and do what is necessary to get better...

Whenever anyone uses the term "whore game", i automatically begin to question their intellect. It seems like a term some latch on to bc they think it sounds clever or something. If you cannot understand the benefit of getting paid $1.8 million to play Auburn, and the exposure it brings, then I cannot help you. USM gets more exposure from that one game than they do over the course of an entire season of CUSA games...and more money too. The biggest problem is financial...not fanbase. We need money to pay, keep and replace the coaching staff when necessary as well as helping with facility upgrades. These money games help with that. Yes, fans need to step up, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go after 1 or 2 money games a year. Heck, its necessary. Also, just as much as being necessary.....its fun and entertaining! No one cares to see us play FAU. If you get more fired up and excited about USM playing UTSA and Charlotte than playing Auburn, Alabama, Nebraska, Tennessee, etc., then something is wrong with YOU.

(08-24-2017 08:52 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  You are suggesting that the reason we got left out of the AAC is bc the fans dont support by showing up for games? You cannot seriously believe that can you? Getting left out of the AAC had nothing to do with fan support or the product USM puts on the field. NOTHING.

Where did I say, "We got left out because of attendance?" I did not. Support in general? Hell, yes, it made a difference. That other $10 million in the annual budget that would've gotten us some play wouldn't have magically appeared out of thin air. It would've had to have come from somebody.

Attendance isn't a bad starting point when it comes to support, though. More tickets and concessions sold is direct income. And if the place is full on the regular, then you have a situation where joining the Eagle Club might be the only way to ensure you can get a decent seat.

Quote:You guy must live in a fantasy land if you think it is realistic that USM fans should just suddenly get happy and fired up about watching Charlotte and Old Dominion come to The Rock to the point that there are constant sell outs with a rabid crowd every game (esp after 0-33). Sorry guys, im not blaming the fans on that one. Generally, USM fans are pretty cheap and tight, but i cant blame them for not selling out CUSA games....or Savannah State(s). Sure, fans need to step up, but come on, man.

The conference sucks. There's no debating that. The underlying problem is why are we so hung up on who's on the opposing sideline in the first place? Maybe try getting fired up about watching you own freaking school play.

(08-24-2017 09:18 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:08 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  Harbor, yours is the best post I have seen on here. Our fans would rather see whore games happen than step up to the plate and do what is necessary to get better...

Whenever anyone uses the term "whore game", i automatically begin to question their intellect. It seems like a term some latch on to bc they think it sounds clever or something. If you cannot understand the benefit of getting paid $1.8 million to play Auburn, and the exposure it brings, then I cannot help you. USM gets more exposure from that one game than they do over the course of an entire season of CUSA games...and more money too. The biggest problem is financial...not fanbase. We need money to pay, keep and replace the coaching staff when necessary as well as helping with facility upgrades. These money games help with that. Yes, fans need to step up, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go after 1 or 2 money games a year. Heck, its necessary. Also, just as much as being necessary.....its fun and entertaining! No one cares to see us play FAU. If you get more fired up and excited about USM playing UTSA and Charlotte than playing Auburn, Alabama, Nebraska, Tennessee, etc., then something is wrong with YOU.

Lol...add this to my case. Wow

(08-24-2017 09:30 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  If the place is full.

Maybe try getting fired up.

You're almost there Chief

(08-24-2017 09:30 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(08-24-2017 08:52 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  You are suggesting that the reason we got left out of the AAC is bc the fans dont support by showing up for games? You cannot seriously believe that can you? Getting left out of the AAC had nothing to do with fan support or the product USM puts on the field. NOTHING.

Where did I say, "We got left out because of attendance?" I did not. Support in general? Hell, yes, it made a difference. That other $10 million in the annual budget that would've gotten us some play wouldn't have magically appeared out of thin air. It would've had to have come from somebody.

Attendance isn't a bad starting point when it comes to support, though. More tickets and concessions sold is direct income. And if the place is full on the regular, then you have a situation where joining the Eagle Club might be the only way to ensure you can get a decent seat.

Quote:You guy must live in a fantasy land if you think it is realistic that USM fans should just suddenly get happy and fired up about watching Charlotte and Old Dominion come to The Rock to the point that there are constant sell outs with a rabid crowd every game (esp after 0-33). Sorry guys, im not blaming the fans on that one. Generally, USM fans are pretty cheap and tight, but i cant blame them for not selling out CUSA games....or Savannah State(s). Sure, fans need to step up, but come on, man.

The conference sucks. There's no debating that. The underlying problem is why are we so hung up on who's on the opposing sideline in the first place? Maybe try getting fired up about watching you own freaking school play.

I'm pretty sure the reason USM got left out of the AAC was because TV was running things at that point; and bc TV had the bunk idea that the bigger the TV market was for a team, then the more interest there would be in people watching that team on TV, the AAC went after the teams in the biggest market.

Most recently, TV did control who was left out. However, we began losing this battle in 80 and by mid-way thru RGs tenure it was over. Mac and RG were not the right guys for our program and all of the Presidents during that time frame had zero business sense. Quite frankly, all those mentioned were simply CONTENT with knocking off an occasional $EC team (the good ones were won with Reggie or Favre under center and after that, just look at the records of those sec teams). Not bashing our program, just saying that our "leaders" weren't very good leaders and now we are paying for it. A person should not even apply for President or AD at USM that doesn't have an immediate plan for the nearly impossible task at hand. It shows that the Board of Trustees is selling some BS and our applicants don't do their homework.

I understand (didn't say I agree) why people don't show up. I've seen folks finally throw in the towel after 15, 20, 30 years or more of support/season tickets in football. They are emotionally tired and have given up because they realize that our leaders have no plan. Me, I'm a fan with a need for a tax write-off so I keep giving more to the EC and buying better tickets...I keep adding in my .02 in a constructive manner as well but I have not much faith in our leadership when I view the resumes of the University Execs.

(08-24-2017 09:44 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  I'm pretty sure the reason USM got left out of the AAC was because TV was running things at that point; and bc TV had the bunk idea that the bigger the TV market was for a team, then the more interest there would be in people watching that team on TV, the AAC went after the teams in the biggest market.

I'm sure that was a factor, but you can bet the first cut was money & facilities. Birmingham has repeatedly been named the best college football TV market in the country, but UAB didn't make it, either. At one time, Boise, Idaho, was part of the plans.

Regardless, the ACC ship has sailed until some things beyond our control change. So what are we going to do now about the stuff we can control? Do what you've always done, and you'll just get more of what you've always gotten.

(08-24-2017 10:00 PM)usmstang Wrote:  Most recently, TV did control who was left out. However, we began losing this battle in 80 and by mid-way thru RGs tenure it was over. Mac and RG were not the right guys for our program and all of the Presidents during that time frame had zero business sense. Quite frankly, all those mentioned were simply CONTENT with knocking off an occasional $EC team (the good ones were won with Reggie or Favre under center and after that, just look at the records of those sec teams). Not bashing our program, just saying that our "leaders" weren't very good leaders and now we are paying for it. A person should not even apply for President or AD at USM that doesn't have an immediate plan for the nearly impossible task at hand. It shows that the Board of Trustees is selling some BS and our applicants don't do their homework.

I understand (didn't say I agree) why people don't show up. I've seen folks finally throw in the towel after 15, 20, 30 years or more of support/season tickets in football. They are emotionally tired and have given up because they realize that our leaders have no plan. Me, I'm a fan with a need for a tax write-off so I keep giving more to the EC and buying better tickets...I keep adding in my .02 in a constructive manner as well but I have not much faith in our leadership when I view the resumes of the University Execs.

well stated, and i agree with you.

also, we cannot underestimate the damage that hiring EJ did to this program and university. its unprecedented.

Let me say that while I don't buy season tickets, I do go to home games. I support the school, but I'm not going to commit to all year when teams constantly prove to me they aren't worth supporting. And yes, for some reason I did go down to the Charlotte game last year and yes, I did leave in the 3rd quarter.


Boise State was once in a crap conference. They played no one decent at home. Know what they did? They realized how bad their conference was and swept through it. They beat bad teams and went undefeated, then proved themselves on the big stage. You want to get more butts in the seat to watch us play the awful home schedule we do? Win the games you're supposed to win, which in this conference, is every single one of them. Be in the discussion at the end of the year to get that Access Bowl slot. Because we haven't shown even a pulse of being close to that since 2011 when we blew it. Win big and they'll come. Lose to awful startups and you're going to see the Rock continue to get emptier.


Oh, and just on another note, if you want the Rock full, it might be wise for some administration to get out of Hattiesburg and talk to some older alumni about why they aren't coming. Because we've got a West side that's half empty that used to be pretty darn full on Saturdays with alumni. They've left and no one in the athletic department seems to care, because they sure aren't going and hearing their concerns.

(08-24-2017 10:00 PM)usmstang Wrote:  Most recently, TV did control who was left out. However, we began losing this battle in 80 and by mid-way thru RGs tenure it was over. Mac and RG were not the right guys for our program and all of the Presidents during that time frame had zero business sense. Quite frankly, all those mentioned were simply CONTENT with knocking off an occasional $EC team (the good ones were won with Reggie or Favre under center and after that, just look at the records of those sec teams). Not bashing our program, just saying that our "leaders" weren't very good leaders and now we are paying for it. A person should not even apply for President or AD at USM that doesn't have an immediate plan for the nearly impossible task at hand. It shows that the Board of Trustees is selling some BS and our applicants don't do their homework.

I understand (didn't say I agree) why people don't show up. I've seen folks finally throw in the towel after 15, 20, 30 years or more of support/season tickets in football. They are emotionally tired and have given up because they realize that our leaders have no plan. Me, I'm a fan with a need for a tax write-off so I keep giving more to the EC and buying better tickets...I keep adding in my .02 in a constructive manner as well but I have not much faith in our leadership when I view the resumes of the University Execs.

Leadership is definitely culpable. Don't take what I've said in these last few posts as me letting them off the hook. But that we fielded a Top 25 Conference Champion in 2011 and only broke 30k in the stands 2 out of 6 games had WAY more to do with people giving up on the season after the Marshall loss than anything Bill McLelland ever did, and anybody making decisions today based upon what Aubrey Lucas did in 1983 has their own issues to sort out.

I keep saying "meet in the middle." The administration needs to be more forward-thinking AND people who call themselves fans need quit being such whiny, fickle little creatures. One or the other ain't gonna cut it.

On the admin side, that Bennett let McGillis go after successive years of stagnation tells me he's one president not happy with the status quo.

I hear ya Harb

Our local support totally depends on the "giant" to be slain on the early part of the schedule. Sadly, that's where they all reside, early. Lose to Bama at Bama to start the season and the bandwagoneers are gone for the year. Slay the giant and all the old Attack Eagle shirts/hats are in the Rock the next week. As far as me pointing out the failures of past leadership, what it has to do with the recent situation is that the leadership was the same. I will agree that Bennett at least pulled the trigger on Billy McG but I don't know who told him to do so. I would like to know that.