(07-01-2017 07:25 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(06-30-2017 08:58 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(06-30-2017 01:07 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(06-29-2017 05:19 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But only if it was both. JMU has burned some bridges, as if they're better than the rest of the conference.

there are no burned bridges in this sort of thing.

Yea, maybe the SB had its feelings hurt, but that lasted about oh.....5 minutes.

every school/conference is going to look to bring in the best candidate. period. That would be JMU.

but yes, clearly they aren't going to an odd number at 11.

if there was to be expansion to 12, JMU and Mo State would be a no brainer. But I think pulling EKU would also make JMU STRONGLY consider the SB. In fact, i was told a year or so ago, JMU would likely accept that scenario.

If there were no burned bridges or if JMU was the best candidate, then why was Coastal Carolina invited over JMU? This last round, JMU wasn't even in consideration. It was CCU, EKU, and NMSU. JMU declined the invitation in April 2014 before Coastal Carolina was invited in September 2015. That would have been plenty of time for the Sun Belt to pursue JMU harder and/or JMU to reconsider their decision. I think it is obvious that JMU and the Sun Belt aren't getting together unless something drastic changes.

you really believe that CCU was invited "over" JMU? as if both schools had said "yes" and the SB chose to go with CCU?

No, I believe the Sun Belt didn't bother to offer JMU a second time because either there were hurt feelings or because CCU was a better candidate in their eyes.

hurt feelings? You think the Sun Belt is a 12-yr old girl or something?

(07-01-2017 08:42 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  hurt feelings? You think the Sun Belt is a 12-yr old girl or something?

Hurt feelings, burned bridges, whatever you want to call it. It wasn't a slight; just calling it for what it is.

(06-29-2017 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  http://www.scout.com/college/arkansas-st...s-bad-ones

Don't mean to distract from the thread topic ... but man.

I'm as staunch as anyone you'll meet online as saying that established FBS schools should not move down to FCS, that they should just drop football. But this really makes me wonder if Monroe shouldn't just go back to being NELA and rejoining the Southland ...

(07-01-2017 09:52 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  

(07-01-2017 08:42 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  hurt feelings? You think the Sun Belt is a 12-yr old girl or something?

Hurt feelings, burned bridges, whatever you want to call it. It wasn't a slight; just calling it for what it is.

The Sun Belt is pragmatic. If JMU made sense for the Belt, they'd consider them.

But I don't think the Belt would take JMU now, even if they publicly asked and its not because they dissed us previously. Here's why

1) The Belt has 10 football members. That, rather than 12 is the correct number in the eyes of many members
2) There is probably some bad blood from some of the Western members, who did want NMSU in the league as an all sports member, only to have that vetoed by the Eastern schools. You need two thirds for an invite. I don't think Texas State or UTA really wants JMU.
3) The conference feels it is unlikely that a raid will impact them in the future. CUSA is too big by at least 2 teams and if they lose 2 teams, it will probably be their better programs, thus making the Belt, rather than CUSA, the better conference at that point. Its telling at this point that the loudest calls for a reshuffle of the Belt and CUSA are coming from CUSA newspapers, not Belt ones.

Sure, there's the additional hurdle of some bad blood resulting from JMU's previous rejection. I think that's just icing on the cake at this point. It really might amplify the impact of issue number 2 above. If we let JMU in, are they then going to whine to try and get more eastern schools in?

---

The only way any FCS is getting in the Belt is if they come with a 12th member or the Belt loses a team somehow.

(07-03-2017 04:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Sun Belt is pragmatic. If JMU made sense for the Belt, they'd consider them.

But I don't think the Belt would take JMU now, even if they publicly asked and its not because they dissed us previously. Here's why

1) The Belt has 10 football members. That, rather than 12 is the correct number in the eyes of many members
2) There is probably some bad blood from some of the Western members, who did want NMSU in the league as an all sports member, only to have that vetoed by the Eastern schools. You need two thirds for an invite. I don't think Texas State or UTA really wants JMU.
3) The conference feels it is unlikely that a raid will impact them in the future. CUSA is too big by at least 2 teams and if they lose 2 teams, it will probably be their better programs, thus making the Belt, rather than CUSA, the better conference at that point. Its telling at this point that the loudest calls for a reshuffle of the Belt and CUSA are coming from CUSA newspapers, not Belt ones.

Sure, there's the additional hurdle of some bad blood resulting from JMU's previous rejection. I think that's just icing on the cake at this point. It really might amplify the impact of issue number 2 above. If we let JMU in, are they then going to whine to try and get more eastern schools in?

---

The only way any FCS is in the Belt is if they come with a 12th member or the Belt loses a team somehow.

Pragmatic is the perfect word.

Consider the following.
Texas-Pan American after going on probation in men's basketball ends up headed to the NCAA jail house. In their statement to the NCAA they admit the death penalty is appropriate. Noses are counted and UTPA is informed they can withdraw or be expelled, they opt to withdraw.

League doesn't want to add ULM but with La.Tech leaving needs them to make their numbers so ULM comes in football only.

League is not sold on Troy and takes no action to add them until NCAA conference rules change.

With loss of NMSU, USU and Idaho, league adds ULM all sports to hit the NCAA required numbers.

Denver as an outlier and UNO lagging in getting back up after Katrina become a problem so the league passes membership standards with a deadline to force them to go all in or leave. They leave.

NMSU and Idaho after leaving are admitted football only to meet a need.

Barring fear of imminent raid or a need to replace, the way CFP is structured and given the TV market situation some people may think the Sun Belt is going to fling the doors open. I'm skeptical because adding means cutting per team distribution.

Now if some combination of USM, UAB, UNCC, or ODU called, I suspect my theory fails.

(07-04-2017 03:17 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 04:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Sun Belt is pragmatic. If JMU made sense for the Belt, they'd consider them.

But I don't think the Belt would take JMU now, even if they publicly asked and its not because they dissed us previously. Here's why

1) The Belt has 10 football members. That, rather than 12 is the correct number in the eyes of many members
2) There is probably some bad blood from some of the Western members, who did want NMSU in the league as an all sports member, only to have that vetoed by the Eastern schools. You need two thirds for an invite. I don't think Texas State or UTA really wants JMU.
3) The conference feels it is unlikely that a raid will impact them in the future. CUSA is too big by at least 2 teams and if they lose 2 teams, it will probably be their better programs, thus making the Belt, rather than CUSA, the better conference at that point. Its telling at this point that the loudest calls for a reshuffle of the Belt and CUSA are coming from CUSA newspapers, not Belt ones.

Sure, there's the additional hurdle of some bad blood resulting from JMU's previous rejection. I think that's just icing on the cake at this point. It really might amplify the impact of issue number 2 above. If we let JMU in, are they then going to whine to try and get more eastern schools in?

---

The only way any FCS is in the Belt is if they come with a 12th member or the Belt loses a team somehow.

Pragmatic is the perfect word.

Consider the following.
Texas-Pan American after going on probation in men's basketball ends up headed to the NCAA jail house. In their statement to the NCAA they admit the death penalty is appropriate. Noses are counted and UTPA is informed they can withdraw or be expelled, they opt to withdraw.

League doesn't want to add ULM but with La.Tech leaving needs them to make their numbers so ULM comes in football only.

League is not sold on Troy and takes no action to add them until NCAA conference rules change.

With loss of NMSU, USU and Idaho, league adds ULM all sports to hit the NCAA required numbers.

Denver as an outlier and UNO lagging in getting back up after Katrina become a problem so the league passes membership standards with a deadline to force them to go all in or leave. They leave.

NMSU and Idaho after leaving are admitted football only to meet a need.

Barring fear of imminent raid or a need to replace, the way CFP is structured and given the TV market situation some people may think the Sun Belt is going to fling the doors open. I'm skeptical because adding means cutting per team distribution.

Now if some combination of USM, UAB, UNCC, or ODU called, I suspect my theory fails.

Obviously, if USM, WKU, MTSU, UAB, or ODU (not so sure about UNCC) came calling, we'd make a place for 2 of them. It would be the right call for the Belt. I suspect that the only reason these teams would come calling would be if CUSA lost at least one of those teams.

One advantage of having 10 teams is that if another conference hits a rough patch, you just might be able to flip the script. I like it. If we need a couple of teams in an emergency, NMSU is out there and so is UMass.

At a minimum, LT, USM, UAB, UNCC, and MTSU still see themselves as being "above" the Sun Belt. Even if that's not true.

Middle Tennessee need not be so arrogant. I still don't see them as much better than Georgia State or Liberty.

The Sun Belt use to be the door mat of College Football. However, they beat/killed CUSA on expansion. CUSA took a lot of the programs from the Sun Belt that were holding the sun belt down. They have replaced schools like MTSU, FIU, FAU, NT who have no fan base with schools that have a passionate following in App State, GA Southern, and now Coastal. If the Sun Belt had added ODU and JMU I think they would be better then CUSA.

Of those seven schools you just named, if you look at their football facilities and how much they spend on football -- those are the best indicators for how much the school wants to support football, IMO -- I'm not seeing where those three in the SB are slam dunks better than those four in the CUSA ...

(07-04-2017 11:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Middle Tennessee need not be so arrogant. I still don't see them as much better than Georgia State or Liberty.

MTSU has basketball that sets them apart.

They've done a few things athletically and played at the top level a while.

(07-01-2017 04:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-29-2017 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  http://www.scout.com/college/arkansas-st...s-bad-ones

Don't mean to distract from the thread topic ... but man.

I'm as staunch as anyone you'll meet online as saying that established FBS schools should not move down to FCS, that they should just drop football. But this really makes me wonder if Monroe shouldn't just go back to being NELA and rejoining the Southland ...

They have a Southland profile....8k-9k students and an endowment of 23 million.

A 72 million dollar operating budget. That is 25% the budget of Bowling Green which has the smallest budget in the MAC.

http://www.ulm.edu/14budget/bor_1.pdf

I mean, SELA is competitive in the Southland ... or has been. I think NELA would do great. They'd have one of the nicest stadiums, probably restart a rivalry with NWLA and maybe McNeese?

(07-06-2017 11:14 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 11:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Middle Tennessee need not be so arrogant. I still don't see them as much better than Georgia State or Liberty.

MTSU has basketball that sets them apart.

They've done a few things athletically and played at the top level a while.

They may have pulled an upset or two in the Dance but they are still a random no name in the grand scheme of things. I put them above schools like GSo, Appalachian and Troy who have grit and determination but very little else.

(07-06-2017 11:44 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-06-2017 11:14 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 11:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Middle Tennessee need not be so arrogant. I still don't see them as much better than Georgia State or Liberty.

MTSU has basketball that sets them apart.

They've done a few things athletically and played at the top level a while.

They may have pulled an upset or two in the Dance but they are still a random no name in the grand scheme of things. I put them above schools like GSo, Appalachian and Troy who have grit and determination but very little else.

MTSU has won a lot of games in basketball. They are quickly building a WKU mystique about them.

They've come a long ways from 20 years ago when they were a run of the mill OVC program.

Don't get me started on how far App State has come in 20 years. They were an average So.Con program in those days didn't even draw half of what they do today.

(07-06-2017 07:47 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt use to be the door mat of College Football. However, they beat/killed CUSA on expansion. CUSA took a lot of the programs from the Sun Belt that were holding the sun belt down. They have replaced schools like MTSU, FIU, FAU, NT who have no fan base with schools that have a passionate following in App State, GA Southern, and now Coastal. If the Sun Belt had added ODU and JMU I think they would be better then CUSA.

Did you really throw Coastal in there as a school with a passionate fanbase? Their football attendance does not support that argument.

(07-06-2017 11:48 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-06-2017 11:44 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(07-06-2017 11:14 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-04-2017 11:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Middle Tennessee need not be so arrogant. I still don't see them as much better than Georgia State or Liberty.

MTSU has basketball that sets them apart.

They've done a few things athletically and played at the top level a while.

They may have pulled an upset or two in the Dance but they are still a random no name in the grand scheme of things. I put them above schools like GSo, Appalachian and Troy who have grit and determination but very little else.

MTSU has won a lot of games in basketball. They are quickly building a WKU mystique about them.

They've come a long ways from 20 years ago when they were a run of the mill OVC program.

Don't get me started on how far App State has come in 20 years. They were an average So.Con program in those days didn't even draw half of what they do today.

That would take decades. IIRC, WKU has been to Sweet 16's in three different decades, including a Final Four. And yes, it did happen, even if the NCAA says otherwise.

(07-06-2017 11:23 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(07-01-2017 04:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-29-2017 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  http://www.scout.com/college/arkansas-st...s-bad-ones

Don't mean to distract from the thread topic ... but man.

I'm as staunch as anyone you'll meet online as saying that established FBS schools should not move down to FCS, that they should just drop football. But this really makes me wonder if Monroe shouldn't just go back to being NELA and rejoining the Southland ...

They have a Southland profile....8k-9k students and an endowment of 23 million.

A 72 million dollar operating budget. That is 25% the budget of Bowling Green which has the smallest budget in the MAC.

http://www.ulm.edu/14budget/bor_1.pdf

ULM would be in the lower part of the Southland in enrollment (9th out of 13) and in endowment (9th or 10th out of 13). (Northwestern State's endowment information is not available)

Looking at the public universities in the Southland Conference, ULM's operating budget is well below the non-Louisiana budgets. (I haven't been able to find information for the three private members.)

Sam Houston State: $315,911,174
Stephen F. Austin: $242,013,985
Lamar: $227,820,624
Texas A&M - Corpus Christi: $188,811,178
Central Arkansas: $182,536,464

and the operating budget of at least one Louisiana member
Southeastern Louisiana: $113,813,646

ULM's operating budget would fit in with most of the Louisiana members .

Back to the original topic, as others have noted above, I think the requirement of having an invitation from an FBS conference in order to transition to FBS would be difficult to defend. I think Liberty University had an easier path to obtain the waiver, but I wouldn't be surprised if a public university which either currently meets FBS requirements except for invitation or could demonstrate an ability to meet those requirements were to be granted a waiver. I think there would be a chance James Madison University could present a successful argument for a waiver.

(07-06-2017 11:55 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(07-06-2017 07:47 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt use to be the door mat of College Football. However, they beat/killed CUSA on expansion. CUSA took a lot of the programs from the Sun Belt that were holding the sun belt down. They have replaced schools like MTSU, FIU, FAU, NT who have no fan base with schools that have a passionate following in App State, GA Southern, and now Coastal. If the Sun Belt had added ODU and JMU I think they would be better then CUSA.

Did you really throw Coastal in there as a school with a passionate fanbase? Their football attendance does not support that argument.

That is a growing school, they have a lot of potential in a growing market