(07-13-2017 06:12 PM)lew240z Wrote:  If Lindenwood had money they would be playing men's hockey.

For its size, Lindenwood offers a tremendous variety of sports. It offers around 26 DII varsity sports and DI women's ice hockey. But beyond intramurals, it offers a category of sports that it call "Student Life" athletics, whigh have professional coaches which sometimes schedule varsity teams. Examples are M&W Rugby, M Ice hockey, roller hockey, synchronized swimming, m&W water Polo, table tennis, w wrestling and more. Those appear to be enrollment enhancers, but how they can afford such variety is a mystery.

How they manage a move to DI likely requires a big change to their sports and enrollment strategies, which wouldn't be easy.

If a conference dies and its between the WAC and the Summit my vote is on the WAC. The Dakota 4, Denver, and Omaha have the ability to form a powerful block together and shape the league the way they want. NDSU is not going to be interested in meddling with a MVC where they don't have allies and 5 small private basketball schools hold all of the cards.

Plus, the WAC has a member ripe for the picking by the Summit in UMKC.

I'll bet on the WAC. The Summit is in a disadvantaged position because it does not sponsor as a conference the one sport that can hold it together: football. It is in a poor region for baseball, and unless if the hockey playing schools in Division II upgrade the balance of their athletic programs, hockey can't save the Summit either. Even then hockey settles from the same issue in that no one wants to give up the more prestigious single-sport conference (MVFC for football, NCHC for hockey).

The WAC, meanwhile, has more flexibility when upgrading schools from Division II since it is comfortably safe with regards to baseball and soccer sponsorship. It can take anyone who drops football, or house a Big Sky football-only member.

The Dakotas, Denver, and Omaha may be a larger block, but the lack of common team sports for them is a problem.

I know GCU has been looking for a way out of the WAC. I wouldn't be shocked to see them jump to the Summit.

(07-13-2017 06:12 PM)lew240z Wrote:  If Lindenwood had money they would be playing men's hockey.

Their women's team is already a varsity team in D1. Their men's are ACHA which several schools are turning the men's into varsity teams.

(07-13-2017 11:15 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I know GCU has been looking for a way out of the WAC. I wouldn't be shocked to see them jump to the Summit.

Denver left the WAC for the Summit to get away from a for-profit school.

(07-13-2017 10:17 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Even then hockey settles from the same issue in that no one wants to give up the more prestigious single-sport conference (MVFC for football, NCHC for hockey).
...
The Dakotas, Denver, and Omaha may be a larger block, but the lack of common team sports for them is a problem.

On the contrary, I think it does exactly the opposite of what you seem to think it does.

You have the Dakota 4, held together by football in the MVFC, and UND, Omaha, Denver held together by hockey. These fanbases enjoy playing the other schools, and recognize the other schools due to the marquee sports (which arguably includes bball itself for the S Dak schools).


The only sticking point then is just that six isn't enough for a conf. I think seven is the minimum. So that's where, I hope, Duluth comes in. Then you have the Dakota 4, and a strong cadre of four from the NCHC.

(07-14-2017 09:20 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Denver left the WAC for the Summit to get away from a for-profit school.

And good on them for making that decision. If UMKC and/or Seattle want to make the same decision, the Summit would welcome either or both.

(07-14-2017 09:20 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 11:15 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I know GCU has been looking for a way out of the WAC. I wouldn't be shocked to see them jump to the Summit.

Denver left the WAC for the Summit to get away from a for-profit school.

I know. But the Summit has been in contact with them.

(07-14-2017 10:33 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 09:20 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 11:15 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I know GCU has been looking for a way out of the WAC. I wouldn't be shocked to see them jump to the Summit.

Denver left the WAC for the Summit to get away from a for-profit school.

I know. But the Summit has been in contact with them.

But wouldn't the Summit be, at best, a lateral move? The Horizon makes competitive (if not geographic) sense, but with the Summit you're basically trading one far-flung one-bid conference for another. That perhaps changes if New Mexico State and CSU-Bakersfield leave, but for now I wonder how beneficial a Summit relationship would be for GCU.

Augustana (SD) has been told the Summit isn't interested, says a the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader.

So the only DII to publicly express interest has been flat turned down. Very doubtful that any Minnesota school will declare public interest in DI except hockey.

So the Summit must have interest from at least one existing DI.

Denver and UND are not interested in Lindenwood as a hockey school now. Lindenwood can go DI right now in hockey without anotice invite and prove themselves. The WCHA can take them.

(07-14-2017 10:46 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 10:33 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 09:20 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 11:15 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I know GCU has been looking for a way out of the WAC. I wouldn't be shocked to see them jump to the Summit.

Denver left the WAC for the Summit to get away from a for-profit school.

I know. But the Summit has been in contact with them.

But wouldn't the Summit be, at best, a lateral move? The Horizon makes competitive (if not geographic) sense, but with the Summit you're basically trading one far-flung one-bid conference for another. That perhaps changes if New Mexico State and CSU-Bakersfield leave, but for now I wonder how beneficial a Summit relationship would be for GCU.

I agree. But GCU has been looking for a way out of since joining the WAC. I also don't think GCU wants to wait for others to jump 1st. The summit isn't that far flung Dakotas Colorado Oklahoma Illinois Indiana Nebraska. Its not ideal and I would prefer the WAC for GCU but college athletics is a very fluid thing.

(07-14-2017 10:57 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Augustana (SD) has been told the Summit isn't interested, says a the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader.

So the only DII to publicly express interest has been flat turned down. Very doubtful that any Minnesota school will declare public interest in DI except hockey.

So the Summit must have interest from at least one existing DI.

Denver and UND are not interested in Lindenwood as a hockey school now. Lindenwood can go DI right now in hockey without anotice invite and prove themselves. The WCHA can take them.

You do not know who talked to who. You do not know who are interested in joining D1.

I created a post about a post about a Test Pilot Program to join D1. It would be a tryout to get noticed by a D1 conference. The schools would be counted as a D1 team, but won't get a post season bid until they get invited by a D1 conference. This could work for the WAC, Summit and other conferences that needs more schools to join.

(07-14-2017 11:06 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 10:46 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 10:33 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 09:20 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-13-2017 11:15 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  I know GCU has been looking for a way out of the WAC. I wouldn't be shocked to see them jump to the Summit.

Denver left the WAC for the Summit to get away from a for-profit school.

I know. But the Summit has been in contact with them.

But wouldn't the Summit be, at best, a lateral move? The Horizon makes competitive (if not geographic) sense, but with the Summit you're basically trading one far-flung one-bid conference for another. That perhaps changes if New Mexico State and CSU-Bakersfield leave, but for now I wonder how beneficial a Summit relationship would be for GCU.

I agree. But GCU has been looking for a way out of since joining the WAC. I also don't think GCU wants to wait for others to jump 1st. The summit isn't that far flung Dakotas Colorado Oklahoma Illinois Indiana Nebraska. Its not ideal and I would prefer the WAC for GCU but college athletics is a very fluid thing.

Don't see what the problem is with a for profit school as long as it produces a good credible education. It is a good incentive for the school because should they not provide good education they will lose money.


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(07-14-2017 10:57 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Augustana (SD) has been told the Summit isn't interested, says a the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader.

So the only DII to publicly express interest has been flat turned down. Very doubtful that any Minnesota school will declare public interest in DI except hockey.

Augi and Duluth are the definition of unrelated. Nice try though!

(07-14-2017 11:12 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 10:57 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Augustana (SD) has been told the Summit isn't interested, says a the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader.

So the only DII to publicly express interest has been flat turned down. Very doubtful that any Minnesota school will declare public interest in DI except hockey.

So the Summit must have interest from at least one existing DI.

Denver and UND are not interested in Lindenwood as a hockey school now. Lindenwood can go DI right now in hockey without anotice invite and prove themselves. The WCHA can take them.

You do not know who talked to who. You do not know who are interested in joining D1.

Well, since he is from the Dakotas he might have more information than you. I'll say it again, you should stop telling people what they do not know.

(07-14-2017 11:15 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I created a post about a post about a Test Pilot Program to join D1. It would be a tryout to get noticed by a D1 conference. The schools would be counted as a D1 team, but won't get a post season bid until they get invited by a D1 conference. This could work for the WAC, Summit and other conferences that needs more schools to join.

Now we return to the real world.

(07-14-2017 03:04 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 10:57 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Augustana (SD) has been told the Summit isn't interested, says a the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader.

So the only DII to publicly express interest has been flat turned down. Very doubtful that any Minnesota school will declare public interest in DI except hockey.

Augi and Duluth are the definition of unrelated. Nice try though!

Augie spends money on DII facilities and athletic and fans show up. Duluth doesn't and their fans don't notice because Duluth is so hockey focused. Show me a link for Duluth going DI. In the meantime, that's a poor attempt at smack.

Northern Minnesota has pathetic DII attendance, as Minn-Crookston, Bemidji St and Minn-Duluth get at best 500 people to their mbb games, while SD ones get several thousand and Southern Minnesota schools like SW Minn St, Minn St-Mankato, and St Cloud St and Winona St can get a couple thousand if they are winning. Moving to DI at Duluth would not yield more fans and interest and would only be a money pit. Hockey is what sells and Duluth recognized that generations ago.

Can we please stop with this charade that any Minnesota school is under even an extremely remote chance of getting even looked at. It may not have come to your notice, but we, like California, have two separate university systems. The University of Minnesota, is both the flagship system(5 campuses) and land-grant. The Minnesota State system caters to the average Minnesotan through it's seven 4-year campuses and has all the community colleges. The U of M system has a clearly defined flagship, the Twin Cities campus. The Minnesota State system is, by Legislative dictate, an enforced structure that prohibits one school gaining favor over another. And throughout the history of this state. the U of M has often, though not always, gotten what it requests, for the Twin Cities campus though maybe not elsewhere(except Rochester), while the Minnesota State system more often, though again not always, has their requests either cut or zeroed-out completely.

Also to DavidSt, I see more people who went to private schools in Minnesota or went to an out of state university represented in the Minnesota Legislature. Most of those who did go to a public school in Minnesota, prefered the U of M, over the Minnesota State system, so the U of M again will have a larger say of this state's higher ed policy.

Don't see Lindenwood wanting a Northern Plains conference either. If they make a move, it will be with the OVC for backfilling for Murray St. The OVC offers much better value for Lindenwood getting enrollment. As stated earlier, their hockey would only be wanted by the WCHA, not the NCHC.

The only DII's that are of value athletically and academically are Grand Valley St and Wayne St, and just don't see them jumping aboard.

(07-14-2017 09:30 PM)Rube Dali Wrote:  Can we please stop with this charade that any Minnesota school is under even an extremely remote chance of getting even looked at. It may not have come to your notice, but we, like California, have two separate university systems. The University of Minnesota, is both the flagship system(5 campuses) and land-grant. The Minnesota State system caters to the average Minnesotan through it's seven 4-year campuses and has all the community colleges. The U of M system has a clearly defined flagship, the Twin Cities campus. The Minnesota State system is, by Legislative dictate, an enforced structure that prohibits one school gaining favor over another. And throughout the history of this state. the U of M has often, though not always, gotten what it requests, for the Twin Cities campus though maybe not elsewhere(except Rochester), while the Minnesota State system more often, though again not always, has their requests either cut or zeroed-out completely.

Also to DavidSt, I see more people who went to private schools in Minnesota or went to an out of state university represented in the Minnesota Legislature. Most of those who did go to a public school in Minnesota, prefered the U of M, over the Minnesota State system, so the U of M again will have a larger say of this state's higher ed policy.

The best DI prospects in MN are the DIII's of St Thomas and St John's and can't see either making a move.