(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 02:13 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 01:57 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  It really isn't that hard and schools are not deemed "flagship" because they may draw the most fans nor can a University suddenly grow and become the State's flagship University. Buffalo is New York's flagship.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/find-colle...niversity/

Buffalo is one of 4. NY takes great pains to keep saying that. Buffalo is the only one with an FBS program and is probably closest to what many people here would visualize as a flagship in a major population state so it makes sense that some websites like this college raptor might ignore the reality of the situation.

You do realize that being a flagship has nothing to do with sports? The website isn't ignoring anything, they are listing the flagships and the methodology of how a school is deemed the State's flagship. They aren't guessing as to who is the most popular. It is a classification based on criteria. Oldest, prestigious, academics, public institution. That's how it works. Again, it has nothing to do with sports or how many t-shirts a school sells.

If you look at what I said I make no allusions to anything you are ranting about. NY gets to decide what are their own flagships not some website. NY has made it clear many times over that all 4 University centers are of equal status and Buffalo is one of the 4. Either all 4 centers are flagships or none of them are. As for how the state of NY sees it they see all 4 of being the highest status.

(05-31-2017 04:05 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  First of all, New York is really two distinct areas separate from each other. There is New York City and it's suburbs, and then there is upstate New York which is basically everything north of Westchester. In upstate New York, I'm assuming Syracuse would be the most popular school from an athletic perspective. In New York City, pro sports dominate, but as far as college football goes, Notre Dame and Penn St probably have the most T shirt fans. That is due to the fact they are the only two teams that normally have any meaningful success most seasons. However, if in some bizarre, upside down, abnormal world, Rutgers, Syracuse and UCONN were all powerful forces and were scheduled to play each other, Rutgers is the team NYC would adopt as it's own. It's the only one where you could go to a game starting at 1pm and be able to return home in time for dinner. Syracuse would get a smattering of support, due to alums in the area. Most delusional are the UCONN people and the idiotic 6th borough nonsense. Few people in NYC could tell you UCONN is located in a place called Storrs, or where in the hell in the state that is. As far as college basketball goes, allegiances are divided a number of ways, but most popular are the local teams. People in the City don't need to look hundreds of miles away to find someone to root for.

I would go so far to say it's actually 3 distinct areas. Upstate, western and NYC/Burbs. Western NY has it's own weird group of folks. Ever see the sites of a Bills tailgate? Yeeesh!

Western New York might as well be part of the Midwest or Ontario.

(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  You do realize that being a flagship has nothing to do with sports?

I totally disagree. In this era, schools need to use sports to promote themselves, especially football. That is why California and New York now recognize and try to correct the mistake they made long time ago by making UCLA and Buffalo the flagship.

What Syracuse did wrong is not to spend money on coach and dome in the past 20 years and let its football slip to as bad as Buffalo. Right now if B1G invites Buffalo to join, Buffalo will become the indisputable flagship of New York because it is public,

(05-31-2017 11:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ArQ Wrote:  Buffalo, Syracuse or Rutgers?

Well, not Rutgers because it is a New Jersey university.

UConn fans will disagree with you. Just because it is located in the other state, doesn't mean it can't be the biggest draw in New York State.

(05-31-2017 07:09 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ArQ Wrote:  Buffalo, Syracuse or Rutgers?

Well, not Rutgers because it is a New Jersey university.

UConn fans will disagree with you. Just because it is located in the other state, doesn't mean it can't be the biggest draw in New York State.

Uconn is not the biggest draw in NYS. Never has been close. And Buffalo likely will never be a member of the BIG. Are you even serious with all this nonsense??

This thread is an unmitigated fail.

(05-31-2017 08:13 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 07:09 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ArQ Wrote:  Buffalo, Syracuse or Rutgers?

Well, not Rutgers because it is a New Jersey university.

UConn fans will disagree with you. Just because it is located in the other state, doesn't mean it can't be the biggest draw in New York State.

Uconn is not the biggest draw in NYS. Never has been close. And Buffalo likely will never be a member of the BIG. Are you even serious with all this nonsense??

All ACC members don't like to see Buffalo going to B1G. But the possibility is not zero. In a very short period of time, B1G has converted NJ residents to B1G followers even Rutgers is still a loser. But NJ residents are more B1G followers than Rutgers followers. For the same reason, B1G may take Buffalo on the next expansion just to secure New York state.

(05-31-2017 12:41 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:39 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  Rutgers is not a NY school and Syracuse is private so I do not see them as being viewed as NY's flag ship universities.

Right now most people think Stanford is the flagship of California even Stanford is private. They just take advantage of the fact that University of California is divided into nine parts thus the resource is limited in each part. It seems that New York State University has recognized the problem and made Buffalo the center above Binghamton, Albany and Stony Brook. The question is when the public will recognize it and acknowledge it. Also University of California is in the process to make UCLA the flagship, above the other eight schools for the same reason.

This is just wrong. UC Berkeley is the flagship of California. I'm honestly surprised to see so many different definitions of flagship being used here.

(06-01-2017 12:47 AM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  This is just wrong. UC Berkeley is the flagship of California. I'm honestly surprised to see so many different definitions of flagship being used here.

There are a number of Universities of California, but when I looked up "Cal", it ended up saying that is in Berkeley.

Regarding the original question, Cornell is the Land Grant, and the Land Grant faculty of Cornell is one of their public faculties ... but New York doesn't have a flagship. As multiple people have pointed out, they aren't organized that way: that is a model which emerged from post-Civil War "progressivist" vision of using university education as an national and industrial development tool, and the top private universities of New York were already well-entrenched by that time.

(05-31-2017 07:09 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ArQ Wrote:  Buffalo, Syracuse or Rutgers?

Well, not Rutgers because it is a New Jersey university.

UConn fans will disagree with you. Just because it is located in the other state, doesn't mean it can't be the biggest draw in New York State.

Logically, that is true (even if not actually true in that particular case) ... which underlines why "flagship" and "biggest draw in the state" can't be the same thing "by definition". A flagship does have to be located in the state. "The Flagship University of State X" is pointing to a University in State X.

(06-01-2017 12:47 AM)GiveEmTheAxe Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:41 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:39 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  Rutgers is not a NY school and Syracuse is private so I do not see them as being viewed as NY's flag ship universities.

Right now most people think Stanford is the flagship of California even Stanford is private. They just take advantage of the fact that University of California is divided into nine parts thus the resource is limited in each part. It seems that New York State University has recognized the problem and made Buffalo the center above Binghamton, Albany and Stony Brook. The question is when the public will recognize it and acknowledge it. Also University of California is in the process to make UCLA the flagship, above the other eight schools for the same reason.

This is just wrong. UC Berkeley is the flagship of California. I'm honestly surprised to see so many different definitions of flagship being used here.

It's trying to create a debate where there isn't any debate. Either the flagship is very clear (as is the case with Berkeley in California) or there isn't a flagship at all (as is the case with New York). Anyone that thinks that Stanford is the flagship of the state of California instead of Berkeley obviously knows zero about the higher education system in the United States.

(05-31-2017 07:04 PM)ArQ Wrote:  I totally disagree. In this era, schools need to use sports to promote themselves, especially football. That is why California and New York now recognize and try to correct the mistake they made long time ago by making UCLA and Buffalo the flagship.

You are absolutely clueless on this topic.

(05-31-2017 08:37 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  This thread is an unmitigated fail.

+100

(05-31-2017 10:43 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 08:13 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 07:09 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:56 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ArQ Wrote:  Buffalo, Syracuse or Rutgers?

Well, not Rutgers because it is a New Jersey university.

UConn fans will disagree with you. Just because it is located in the other state, doesn't mean it can't be the biggest draw in New York State.

Uconn is not the biggest draw in NYS. Never has been close. And Buffalo likely will never be a member of the BIG. Are you even serious with all this nonsense??

All ACC members don't like to see Buffalo going to B1G. But the possibility is not zero. In a very short period of time, B1G has converted NJ residents to B1G followers even Rutgers is still a loser. But NJ residents are more B1G followers than Rutgers followers. For the same reason, B1G may take Buffalo on the next expansion just to secure New York state.

1) I dont think most ACC folks care if Buffalo goes to the BIG. They probably laugh at the idea that the BIG would be that desperate.

2) Regarding NJ residents being more BIG followers than Rutgers, I cant speak for them but I find it very hard to believe, as I distinctly remember NJ getting firmly behind Rutgers big time, when they started winning as members of the BE.

3)As far as the BIG taking UBuffalo during the next expansion, I cant even begin to tell you how SILLY that thought is. If you dont have Syracuse, you wont "secure" New York State.

You dont seem to have a proper understanding how this all works. I may not either but I do know New York. If you dont live in NYS, then you will never understand how little support and attention that UB gets outside of Buffalo, or public universities in general. Just because its a public doesnt mean that it gets most of the attention and infuence in NY.
New York is very different from the other States.
I have had the experience of living in two very different States, NY and Florida. Even though there are a lot of New Yorkers in Florida, they are still very different states regarding the educational system and college sports and culture.

Yankees or Giants

(05-31-2017 07:04 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  You do realize that being a flagship has nothing to do with sports?

I totally disagree. In this era, schools need to use sports to promote themselves, especially football. That is why California and New York now recognize and try to correct the mistake they made long time ago by making UCLA and Buffalo the flagship.

What Syracuse did wrong is not to spend money on coach and dome in the past 20 years and let its football slip to as bad as Buffalo. Right now if B1G invites Buffalo to join, Buffalo will become the indisputable flagship of New York because it is public,

You really need to look up what "Flagship" means in regards to a State, Public University (note, a private school cannot be the State's Flagship).

Others are correct, this thread is an epic failure. Syracuse is a private institution as is Stanford. Buffalo was deemed the state of NY's Flagship based on the date it was founded (1846). Size (largest in NY), medical and law schools, largest research budget, most state support, most doctoral degrees granted in the State and yes, it also plays D1 athletics.

(06-01-2017 09:18 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 07:04 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  You do realize that being a flagship has nothing to do with sports?

I totally disagree. In this era, schools need to use sports to promote themselves, especially football. That is why California and New York now recognize and try to correct the mistake they made long time ago by making UCLA and Buffalo the flagship.

What Syracuse did wrong is not to spend money on coach and dome in the past 20 years and let its football slip to as bad as Buffalo. Right now if B1G invites Buffalo to join, Buffalo will become the indisputable flagship of New York because it is public,

You really need to look up what "Flagship" means in regards to a State, Public University (note, a private school cannot be the State's Flagship).

Others are correct, this thread is an epic failure. Syracuse is a private institution as is Stanford. Buffalo was deemed the state of NY's Flagship based on the date it was founded (1846). Size (largest in NY), medical and law schools, largest research budget, most state support, most doctoral degrees granted in the State and yes, it also plays D1 athletics.

Cool story but UB still isn't "the" Flagship of SUNY.

(06-01-2017 12:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 09:18 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 07:04 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  You do realize that being a flagship has nothing to do with sports?

I totally disagree. In this era, schools need to use sports to promote themselves, especially football. That is why California and New York now recognize and try to correct the mistake they made long time ago by making UCLA and Buffalo the flagship.

What Syracuse did wrong is not to spend money on coach and dome in the past 20 years and let its football slip to as bad as Buffalo. Right now if B1G invites Buffalo to join, Buffalo will become the indisputable flagship of New York because it is public,

You really need to look up what "Flagship" means in regards to a State, Public University (note, a private school cannot be the State's Flagship).

Others are correct, this thread is an epic failure. Syracuse is a private institution as is Stanford. Buffalo was deemed the state of NY's Flagship based on the date it was founded (1846). Size (largest in NY), medical and law schools, largest research budget, most state support, most doctoral degrees granted in the State and yes, it also plays D1 athletics.

Cool story but UB still isn't the Flagship of SUNY.

I agree with Mark. Right now Syracuse is more the flagship of New York than Buffalo.

But if B1G wants to double down on their Northeast strategy, they should invite Buffalo to join B1G. Buffalo could do no worse than Rutgers. To prevent this from happening, Syracuse needs to cut a deal with NY state department of education for some kind of affiliation.

The most correct answer is probably none. If we are talking in a purely athletic sense, only Syracuse even has an argument.

(06-01-2017 01:03 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 12:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 09:18 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 07:04 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 05:04 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  You do realize that being a flagship has nothing to do with sports?

I totally disagree. In this era, schools need to use sports to promote themselves, especially football. That is why California and New York now recognize and try to correct the mistake they made long time ago by making UCLA and Buffalo the flagship.

What Syracuse did wrong is not to spend money on coach and dome in the past 20 years and let its football slip to as bad as Buffalo. Right now if B1G invites Buffalo to join, Buffalo will become the indisputable flagship of New York because it is public,

You really need to look up what "Flagship" means in regards to a State, Public University (note, a private school cannot be the State's Flagship).

Others are correct, this thread is an epic failure. Syracuse is a private institution as is Stanford. Buffalo was deemed the state of NY's Flagship based on the date it was founded (1846). Size (largest in NY), medical and law schools, largest research budget, most state support, most doctoral degrees granted in the State and yes, it also plays D1 athletics.

Cool story but UB still isn't the Flagship of SUNY.

I agree with Mark. Right now Syracuse is more the flagship of New York than Buffalo.

But if B1G wants to double down on their Northeast strategy, they should invite Buffalo to join B1G. Buffalo could do no worse than Rutgers. To prevent this from happening, Syracuse needs to cut a deal with NY state department of education for some kind of affiliation.

Syracuse has failed at that every time it has been tried

they have SUNY ESF right next door and cooperative agreements with them, but I would never see them being merged to be like Cornell and the Land Grant and Industrial Labor Management and other aspects that are "public" or more correctly termed "statutory" at Cornell

and Syracuse actually sold off the Medical school in the 1950s to SUNY which is now Upstate Medical University so again opportunity to work with or even have SUNY statutory components LEAVE Syracuse they do not generally come to Syracuse

and even early on Syracuse was the loser in Land Grant Funding between Cornell and Genesee College which was a large part of what became Syracuse

Syracuse needs to concentrate on reversing the damage done by their last president before anything else