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Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 03:07 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  JRsec,

The one that counts is Boren. He will decide. The people the President most has to keep happy are the faculty. And no question they would prefer the B1G or Pac-12. Faculty at Nebraska popped the champagne with the announcement, because it meant the academic future of the school we secure. (This is the biggest problem the SEC has, not fans but faculty opposition)

Missouri's entire dance with the SEC and it's going through the motions with the B1G was all about convincing the faculty that the B1G was not in the cards and that the SEC is where they have to go. Everyone in the Big XII was convinced before June 2010 that Missouri was going to the SEC. So what held it up? The faculty senate folks.

Sounds like urban legends. Why would the faculties at these schools care which sports conference the university schools participate in? It's not like conference affiliation has any bearing on who the faculty at OU and Mizzou can and cannot collaborate with on research projects. These universities departments rise and fall based on what the faculty are doing, what connections they have with peers, what kinds of research they do and how well they can sell ideas to obtain research grants.
05-09-2017 03:35 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
Barry Trammel had this in his article:
Quote:My Big Ten professor says that OU and Nebraska are “virtually identical” academically. I don't know if that's true. But the professor said that if Big Ten presidents “view Nebraska, with their level of academics, as someone with whom they wish to associate, I cannot imagine why Oklahoma would not be a school that they would welcome.”

Read this letter Barry Trammel printed in 2015 from a Professor
http://newsok.com/article/5436874
05-09-2017 03:54 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 03:07 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  JRsec,

The one that counts is Boren. He will decide. The people the President most has to keep happy are the faculty. And no question they would prefer the B1G or Pac-12. Faculty at Nebraska popped the champagne with the announcement, because it meant the academic future of the school we secure. (This is the biggest problem the SEC has, not fans but faculty opposition)

Missouri's entire dance with the SEC and it's going through the motions with the B1G was all about convincing the faculty that the B1G was not in the cards and that the SEC is where they have to go. Everyone in the Big XII was convinced before June 2010 that Missouri was going to the SEC. So what held it up? The faculty senate folks.

Legally yes. You won the battle at Maryland and long term may have lost the war. If the donors and alums aren't on base you get a empty stadium and a larger reliance upon TV revenue. Donors and fans are the customers in this arrangement and academia screws that consideration up every time. They did at Missouri, they did at Maryland, and if they aren't careful it will happen at OU. There is already dissention there.

If the president wants to make the move fine. Then you get consensus and with more than your faculty. If they move as a unit you've gained much more than if they move with less than majority support.
05-09-2017 04:00 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 03:07 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  JRsec,

The one that counts is Boren. He will decide. The people the President most has to keep happy are the faculty. And no question they would prefer the B1G or Pac-12. Faculty at Nebraska popped the champagne with the announcement, because it meant the academic future of the school we secure. (This is the biggest problem the SEC has, not fans but faculty opposition)

Missouri's entire dance with the SEC and it's going through the motions with the B1G was all about convincing the faculty that the B1G was not in the cards and that the SEC is where they have to go. Everyone in the Big XII was convinced before June 2010 that Missouri was going to the SEC. So what held it up? The faculty senate folks.

BTW: Boren just had open heart surgery last week. So if you are counting on him you had better hurry!
05-09-2017 04:03 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 03:35 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(05-09-2017 03:07 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  JRsec,

The one that counts is Boren. He will decide. The people the President most has to keep happy are the faculty. And no question they would prefer the B1G or Pac-12. Faculty at Nebraska popped the champagne with the announcement, because it meant the academic future of the school we secure. (This is the biggest problem the SEC has, not fans but faculty opposition)

Missouri's entire dance with the SEC and it's going through the motions with the B1G was all about convincing the faculty that the B1G was not in the cards and that the SEC is where they have to go. Everyone in the Big XII was convinced before June 2010 that Missouri was going to the SEC. So what held it up? The faculty senate folks.

Sounds like urban legends. Why would the faculties at these schools care which sports conference the university schools participate in? It's not like conference affiliation has any bearing on who the faculty at OU and Mizzou can and cannot collaborate with on research projects. These universities departments rise and fall based on what the faculty are doing, what connections they have with peers, what kinds of research they do and how well they can sell ideas to obtain research grants.

Salaries to retain the talent is important.

OU and Mizzou aren't getting the research faculty in the door the way you'll find at a B1G schools which really drop money on faculty. B1G schools are competing against the top research schools in the country (UC's, Ivy's, UAA's) for faculty.
05-09-2017 04:03 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 01:25 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The people suggesting OU doesn't fit the B1G are SEC fans claiming OU is "kinda" confederacy. They are Great Plains. sure Southerners made up a good chunk of the settlers, but first generation European immigrants made up the majority. There were never slave plantations there. There are no complaints coming from B1G people. Trammel is incorrect in this, just as he is in AAU being an absolute requirement. (R1 Carnegie and inside the top 10% of research schools is, an OU meets that).

We might consider Kansas, but OU is our focus, but it has nothing to do with the Old South. It has everything to do with our % of share in the DFW market without having to take another Texas school. With Arkansas, A&M and OU the SEC would have a strong % of viewers in DFW plus the state of Oklahoma. It is about efficiency. We could gain the same thing with Texas, but wouldn't be adding a state.

Kansas has issues. Averaging 24,000 for home football games is a wet towel in the face to the SEC. Basketball would be a huge plus but basketball is only 15% of our total revenue from sports.

I agree about extending conference footprints beyond old geographical boundaries. Certainly Maryland and Rutgers and Missouri and somewhat A&M have done that for the Big 10 and SEC.

I don't know where this will wind up but right now I see more advantages to 18 than to 16 and not as many at 20. The geography in the SEC is such that 18 would actually allow us to break into 3 divisions of 6. That not only makes most of your non revenue schedule local, but provides for some very tight groupings where the schools in the divisions have ample ties to one another.
05-09-2017 04:14 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
JRsec,

OU will still appoint a research minded President. And the SEC will still have an academic perception problem with faculty.

I don't think it is entirely fair as there are some outstanding academic schools in the SEC. But the SEC has not made it a point, nor put any pressure on schools in the league who are not performing well academically and in research to step up their game.

So I see the SEC academic perception issue as a fixable internal problem. But so far little has been done to address it.
05-09-2017 04:15 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 12:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've said it for a very long time, the natural place for OU is right where it is at.

A move to any other league is a bad long term proposition for OU.

B12 1.0 was a perfect fit for OU. It was a very nice conference.

B12 2.0 I think is fine but ESPN probably can't afford to give it another big contract. A big contract was questionable enough for a conference battered by membership last time around that the fact they haven't been in the national title conversation and aren't sending guys to the NFL is making it look even more questionable. Who could have predicted such a collapse of Texas?

While Texas always has the option of squeezing more money from the LHN, Oklahoma would have to endure the full impact of a TV revenue paycut.

Ironically it was Oklahoma who started this mess by suing the NCAA in the 80's over their monopoly on TV revenue. Now they are the ones getting squeezed.
05-09-2017 04:17 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-09-2017 04:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  JRsec,

OU will still appoint a research minded President. And the SEC will still have an academic perception problem with faculty.

I don't think it is entirely fair as there are some outstanding academic schools in the SEC. But the SEC has not made it a point, nor put any pressure on schools in the league who are not performing well academically and in research to step up their game.

So I see the SEC academic perception issue as a fixable internal problem. But so far little has been done to address it.

Most of those were charter members and in Mississippi the mission of the schools are very similar to those of West Virginia.
05-09-2017 04:23 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
I like these PAC-14 divisions.

North: Stanford, USC, Oregon, OSU, Washington, WSU, Utah
South: USC, UCLA, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas

OU and USC would be a big national game. Colorado gets OU and KU back on the schedule rivals from the Big 8.

UCLA-Arizona-Kansas would be epic for men's basketball.

Kansas and its 24,000 football crowds is not as much of an issue from the PAC perspective when you've got half empty stadiums around the conference. Oklahoma can more than make up for it because they can deliver fans (in the stands and bring fans out) across the league.

In the B1G you'll be permanent second fiddle to Michiagn-Ohio St playing in that conference, IMO.
05-09-2017 04:27 PM
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