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Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:27 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:43 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:22 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 06:36 PM)djnva Wrote:  This isn't just ODU, it's the new landscape of college basketball.

This. Over 700 players transfer every year now. With about 350 teams, it works out to, basically, two players on every team, every year, now transfer.

How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Over 800 transfers last year. Pretty evenly distributed over all years of eligibility.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2016

Think what you want, but over the last two years, only six teams have gone without at least one transfer. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Of course, if you're looking to blame Jones for everything, this is another bullet you'll fire. If you are being intellectually honest, the facts will show it is well within the norm.

The number of juco's we've brought in, the number of players we've kicked off the team and the number of players we've had leave is far from "normal".

It looks like the players looking to defend jones no matter what will just totally ignore reality to do so.

Correct me if I am missing anyone:

JUCOs brought in (5)
Ebondo
Douglas
Pervier
Kah
Haynes

Players kicked off the team (4)
Pervier
Colbert
Mosley (I think he had the option to return)
Douglas

Left due to playing time (5)
Batten
Palmore
Clark
Haynes
Fields

You're mad that we recruited too many juice transfers. You're made that Jones kicks players off for behavioral, personal, etc issues. You're made that players transfer because of playing time.

Tell me which of the players that left due to playing time hurt us not having him?

Tell me which player who was kicked off the team hurt us by not having him?

I think the fact that outside of Lake (who we aren't in the running for) you haven't heard a juco name pop up tells you that Jones isn't looking to go that route anymore. But hey if you actually acknowledged it, you would have one less thing to ***** about.
03-23-2017 08:39 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 07:43 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:22 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 06:36 PM)djnva Wrote:  This isn't just ODU, it's the new landscape of college basketball.

This. Over 700 players transfer every year now. With about 350 teams, it works out to, basically, two players on every team, every year, now transfer.

How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Over 800 transfers last year. Pretty evenly distributed over all years of eligibility.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2016

Think what you want, but over the last two years, only six teams have gone without at least one transfer. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Of course, if you're looking to blame Jones for everything, this is another bullet you'll fire. If you are being intellectually honest, the facts will show it is well within the norm.

Where are you seeing the Years of eligibility?
03-23-2017 08:40 PM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:38 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:08 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:22 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 06:36 PM)djnva Wrote:  This isn't just ODU, it's the new landscape of college basketball.

This. Over 700 players transfer every year now. With about 350 teams, it works out to, basically, two players on every team, every year, now transfer.

How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Here is a list of players who have transferred out since Jones got here.
Ekene A- never played a minute here. Transferred to a juco and never got back to a 4 year.
Batten- left as a grad transfer
Palmore- left after junior due to playing time (went from starter to playing behind Freeman). Went D2, had a great senior year.
Clark- left after his redshirt sophomore (was never in the rotation which might have been due to injuries). Went D2 had a decent jr year (9 ppg) and only played in 5 games his senior year (due to injury?)
Douglas- left after his junior year. (off court issues led to his exit.) was a D2 second team All American this year
Mosley- left as a grad transfer
Colbert- never played a minute here. I believe he ended up at Hampton

Add in Haynes and Fields for this year.

And outside of Colbert & Douglas (and possibly Mosley), they all left due to playing time. That is common in D1 hoops (especially now a days).

Don't forget about Pervier........I could have sworn there was another kid kicked off too.

I clearly wrote TRANSFERRED OUT. Pervier had no more eligibility.
03-23-2017 08:41 PM
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ODUCoach Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:40 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:43 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:22 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 06:36 PM)djnva Wrote:  This isn't just ODU, it's the new landscape of college basketball.

This. Over 700 players transfer every year now. With about 350 teams, it works out to, basically, two players on every team, every year, now transfer.

How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Over 800 transfers last year. Pretty evenly distributed over all years of eligibility.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2016

Think what you want, but over the last two years, only six teams have gone without at least one transfer. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Of course, if you're looking to blame Jones for everything, this is another bullet you'll fire. If you are being intellectually honest, the facts will show it is well within the norm.

Where are you seeing the Years of eligibility?

I looked at the "class" column. It might not be perfectly aligned with eligibility, but it gives you a pretty good idea.
03-23-2017 08:42 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:39 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:27 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:43 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:22 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  This. Over 700 players transfer every year now. With about 350 teams, it works out to, basically, two players on every team, every year, now transfer.

How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Over 800 transfers last year. Pretty evenly distributed over all years of eligibility.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2016

Think what you want, but over the last two years, only six teams have gone without at least one transfer. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Of course, if you're looking to blame Jones for everything, this is another bullet you'll fire. If you are being intellectually honest, the facts will show it is well within the norm.

The number of juco's we've brought in, the number of players we've kicked off the team and the number of players we've had leave is far from "normal".

It looks like the players looking to defend jones no matter what will just totally ignore reality to do so.

Correct me if I am missing anyone:

JUCOs brought in (5)
Ebondo
Douglas
Pervier
Kah
Haynes

Players kicked off the team (4)
Pervier
Colbert
Mosley (I think he had the option to return)
Douglas

Left due to playing time (5)
Batten
Palmore
Clark
Haynes
Fields

You're mad that we recruited too many juice transfers. You're made that Jones kicks players off for behavioral, personal, etc issues. You're made that players transfer because of playing time.

Tell me which of the players that left due to playing time hurt us not having him?

Tell me which player who was kicked off the team hurt us by not having him?

I think the fact that outside of Lake (who we aren't in the running for) you haven't heard a juco name pop up tells you that Jones isn't looking to go that route anymore. But hey if you actually acknowledged it, you would have one less thing to ***** about.

4 players kicked off the team in 4 years. Pretty sure Blaine had 1 in over a decade.

But sure, that's normal.

And again, you are judging based off of total transfers leaving to say "it's normal".

If you take out grad transfers that number drops significantly which means, no, losing 10 players in 4 years is not actually normal.

You once again fail to understand statistics.

If you take out grad transfers from the equation teams are not losing 2.5 players a year every year on the regular across college basketball.

Nice try though.
03-23-2017 08:46 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:41 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:38 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:08 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:22 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  This. Over 700 players transfer every year now. With about 350 teams, it works out to, basically, two players on every team, every year, now transfer.

How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Here is a list of players who have transferred out since Jones got here.
Ekene A- never played a minute here. Transferred to a juco and never got back to a 4 year.
Batten- left as a grad transfer
Palmore- left after junior due to playing time (went from starter to playing behind Freeman). Went D2, had a great senior year.
Clark- left after his redshirt sophomore (was never in the rotation which might have been due to injuries). Went D2 had a decent jr year (9 ppg) and only played in 5 games his senior year (due to injury?)
Douglas- left after his junior year. (off court issues led to his exit.) was a D2 second team All American this year
Mosley- left as a grad transfer
Colbert- never played a minute here. I believe he ended up at Hampton

Add in Haynes and Fields for this year.

And outside of Colbert & Douglas (and possibly Mosley), they all left due to playing time. That is common in D1 hoops (especially now a days).

Don't forget about Pervier........I could have sworn there was another kid kicked off too.

I clearly wrote TRANSFERRED OUT. Pervier had no more eligibility.

As far as I remember he still had another year, he was just kicked off the team.
03-23-2017 08:48 PM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:48 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:41 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:38 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:08 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Here is a list of players who have transferred out since Jones got here.
Ekene A- never played a minute here. Transferred to a juco and never got back to a 4 year.
Batten- left as a grad transfer
Palmore- left after junior due to playing time (went from starter to playing behind Freeman). Went D2, had a great senior year.
Clark- left after his redshirt sophomore (was never in the rotation which might have been due to injuries). Went D2 had a decent jr year (9 ppg) and only played in 5 games his senior year (due to injury?)
Douglas- left after his junior year. (off court issues led to his exit.) was a D2 second team All American this year
Mosley- left as a grad transfer
Colbert- never played a minute here. I believe he ended up at Hampton

Add in Haynes and Fields for this year.

And outside of Colbert & Douglas (and possibly Mosley), they all left due to playing time. That is common in D1 hoops (especially now a days).

Don't forget about Pervier........I could have sworn there was another kid kicked off too.

I clearly wrote TRANSFERRED OUT. Pervier had no more eligibility.

As far as I remember he still had another year, he was just kicked off the team.

Like many things you have posted today, you are incorrect. He had one year of eligibility.
03-23-2017 08:55 PM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:46 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:39 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:27 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:43 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Over 800 transfers last year. Pretty evenly distributed over all years of eligibility.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2016

Think what you want, but over the last two years, only six teams have gone without at least one transfer. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Of course, if you're looking to blame Jones for everything, this is another bullet you'll fire. If you are being intellectually honest, the facts will show it is well within the norm.

The number of juco's we've brought in, the number of players we've kicked off the team and the number of players we've had leave is far from "normal".

It looks like the players looking to defend jones no matter what will just totally ignore reality to do so.

Correct me if I am missing anyone:

JUCOs brought in (5)
Ebondo
Douglas
Pervier
Kah
Haynes

Players kicked off the team (4)
Pervier
Colbert
Mosley (I think he had the option to return)
Douglas

Left due to playing time (5)
Batten
Palmore
Clark
Haynes
Fields

You're mad that we recruited too many juice transfers. You're made that Jones kicks players off for behavioral, personal, etc issues. You're made that players transfer because of playing time.

Tell me which of the players that left due to playing time hurt us not having him?

Tell me which player who was kicked off the team hurt us by not having him?

I think the fact that outside of Lake (who we aren't in the running for) you haven't heard a juco name pop up tells you that Jones isn't looking to go that route anymore. But hey if you actually acknowledged it, you would have one less thing to ***** about.

4 players kicked off the team in 4 years. Pretty sure Blaine had 1 in over a decade.

But sure, that's normal.

And again, you are judging based off of total transfers leaving to say "it's normal".

If you take out grad transfers that number drops significantly which means, no, losing 10 players in 4 years is not actually normal.

You once again fail to understand statistics.

If you take out grad transfers from the equation teams are not losing 2.5 players a year every year on the regular across college basketball.

Nice try though.

Do you know why those 4 were kicked off the team? Or do you think it was for trivial things?

BT also had a player get arrested right before a game..... So what's your point?07-coffee3
03-23-2017 08:57 PM
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JJMonarch Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:30 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I'm showing you facts that show it is normal. If you don't want to believe the numbers, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Exactly! Actually, one of the unfortunate issues we have had is our last few coaches have left the cupboard bare. That results in possibly having to sign some players that may not be ideal but they need bodies to fill roles. Anyone can look back on our media guides and find a lot of players that didn't pan out about the time a coach was leaving. A good example is the 2011 roster that included Ekene Anachebe, Deon Clark, Anton Larsen, Stuart McEwen, DeShawn Painter ( 1 year player)., Donta Hill (2 years) . And how about DeQuan Mitchell and Jason Pimentel a year or two before?

Fortunately for us the better players in our program have for the most part stayed with us and had a great experience but ODU has not been unscathed when it comes to losing players. I can think of three players off the top of my head that came in under Taylor in his early years that were pretty well thought of that did not make much of a contribution, ( Josh Hicks, Jason Thompson, Yanko Mrksic). I also remember Taylor complaining about the players that he inherited that played but didn't stick around long ( Clay McGowen, Joe Principe).

We have lost lots of role players in the past and most of the time it happened during the transition to a new coaching staff. This coaching staff we have now had some talent to build around in Freeman and Bacote. I think they chose to do that the juco and transfer route hoping to compete immediately. Some didn't work out but we also had some real solid success that should continue to show dividends ( Porter, Stith's, come to mind). Some of them bombed but I think it did allow us to compete with what we had returning. I am anxious to see what new additions we get for next season to pair with Green, Hueitt, and Godwin.
03-23-2017 09:01 PM
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Big Bluezilla Offline
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Post: #40
Haynes and Fields leaving ODU
(03-23-2017 08:46 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:39 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 08:27 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:43 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(03-23-2017 07:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  How many of those are grad transfers though?

None of our losses during jones tenure are from grad transfers so NO, this is not normal.

Nor is it acceptable.

Over 800 transfers last year. Pretty evenly distributed over all years of eligibility.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2016

Think what you want, but over the last two years, only six teams have gone without at least one transfer. It's just the nature of the beast these days. Of course, if you're looking to blame Jones for everything, this is another bullet you'll fire. If you are being intellectually honest, the facts will show it is well within the norm.

The number of juco's we've brought in, the number of players we've kicked off the team and the number of players we've had leave is far from "normal".

It looks like the players looking to defend jones no matter what will just totally ignore reality to do so.

Correct me if I am missing anyone:

JUCOs brought in (5)
Ebondo
Douglas
Pervier
Kah
Haynes

Players kicked off the team (4)
Pervier
Colbert
Mosley (I think he had the option to return)
Douglas

Left due to playing time (5)
Batten
Palmore
Clark
Haynes
Fields

You're mad that we recruited too many juice transfers. You're made that Jones kicks players off for behavioral, personal, etc issues. You're made that players transfer because of playing time.

Tell me which of the players that left due to playing time hurt us not having him?

Tell me which player who was kicked off the team hurt us by not having him?

I think the fact that outside of Lake (who we aren't in the running for) you haven't heard a juco name pop up tells you that Jones isn't looking to go that route anymore. But hey if you actually acknowledged it, you would have one less thing to ***** about.

4 players kicked off the team in 4 years. Pretty sure Blaine had 1 in over a decade.

But sure, that's normal.

And again, you are judging based off of total transfers leaving to say "it's normal".

If you take out grad transfers that number drops significantly which means, no, losing 10 players in 4 years is not actually normal.

You once again fail to understand statistics.

If you take out grad transfers from the equation teams are not losing 2.5 players a year every year on the regular across college basketball.

Nice try though.


Jason Pimentel anyone?


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03-23-2017 09:41 PM
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