(03-27-2017 02:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 09:02 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 11:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think SBC was holding off from going to 12 incase they could get Missouri State. Then, you could see Missouri State and Eastern Kentucky invited to the SBC to make it a 12/14 conference.

I do not believe Eastern Kentucky is even on the SBC radar. Missouri State yes with the right other addition. But that addition will not be EKU.

Considering that the Sun Belt met to consider EKU's application and then went out called Coastal Carolina and invited them to apply, I'd say you are right.

Hop over to the Missouri State board if you get a minute. We were talking about Arkansas State's budget increase.

(03-27-2017 12:21 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  The top 3 targets will be UMKC, UIC and Valpo based on markets only.

The politics of how they'd have to proceed would drive anyone in that conference to want to leave. They replaced a private school with a private school. If a public non-football member left, would they look to another public non-football school?

(03-27-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 12:21 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  The top 3 targets will be UMKC, UIC and Valpo based on markets only.

The politics of how they'd have to proceed would drive anyone in that conference to want to leave. They replaced a private school with a private school. If a public non-football member left, would they look to another public non-football school?

Most of the options are going to be non-football. However, if the football schools want to go to 12 in the MVFC, it may bring Murray State into play despite having no market. And I believe what little market they have is shared with SIU. I also understand that markets really mean little for the MVC but they may not believe that.

I would guess it will be a public, and probably non-football. I could see this disagreement between the two sides leaving the MVC with 9 for a couple of years. I guess it'll depend on what's really most important to those involved and I have no answers for that.

Who cares about markets. They're not getting a tv deal with or without them. They added Chicago and it did nothing.

Just add the best hoops program and fan base in the footprint. 30 years of history shows Murray St is the runaway #1 in the former, and probably #1 in the latter.

(03-27-2017 11:30 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Deja vu in the Valley
http://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/02/26/M...478242000/

Looking at the article from that perspective, Wichita State is really getting back to where they belong in with Tulsa and Memphis by joining the AAC and others that have stepped up their game like SMU.

Its amazing that at one time Bradley was considering the MCC...forerunner to the Horizon League. Loyola, Xavier, Butler and Notre Dame all have departed. Detroit Mercy is stuck.

(03-27-2017 09:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 11:30 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Deja vu in the Valley
http://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/02/26/M...478242000/

Looking at the article from that perspective, Wichita State is really getting back to where they belong in with Tulsa and Memphis by joining the AAC and others that have stepped up their game like SMU.

Its amazing that at one time Bradley was considering the MCC...forerunner to the Horizon League. Loyola, Xavier, Butler and Notre Dame all have departed. Detroit Mercy is stuck.

Creighton as well. MCC in the mid 80s would have been this:
Bradley
Butler
Creighton
Dayton
Detroit
Evansville
Loyola
Marquette
Saint Louis
Xavier

(03-27-2017 05:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Who cares about markets. They're not getting a tv deal with or without them. They added Chicago and it did nothing.

Just add the best hoops program and fan base in the footprint. 30 years of history shows Murray St is the runaway #1 in the former, and probably #1 in the latter.

Loyola was a market gain for recruitment. The conference wanted to be in Chicago for that, and perhaps why three candidates from that search were city or nearby schools (Loyola, UIC, and Valpo).

If these guys love the bus league thing, though, Horizon's a goner. I wonder if the UW's get looks.

(03-17-2017 09:01 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  If Wichita State does go to the AAC, who should replace them?

A couple of ideas would be Murray State and Belmont. Who else?

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...twitter_si

I'll do it.

https://cdn-collider-com.cdn.ampproject....00x200.jpg

(03-25-2017 09:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:52 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 05:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 11:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG --those exist mostly for TV revenue at FBS level, since NC playoff has largely devalued them--. For the same reason divisions have no value. The bigger issue is whether the league will schedule an important rival or not. There is no compelling reason to add a 12th. That is why there is no effort to do so.

(I realize some posters partial autism, where they require even numbers or their head explodes will be put forward as an argument. But unless there are competitive and financial reasons to add members, they wont bother with it. Its the REST concept in action ... or inaction, as it were)

The MVFC is not an integral part of the MVC, and the MVC is not dependent upon it, although both the MVC and tSL have influence upon it. The MVC will make the decision for membership that makes the most sense, and it will be a Basketball decision.

You can shake it a hundred different ways, but UIC always comes out top, with Belmont the only real competitor.

And UIC has no fans and does not have a serious athletic program. Ill-Chi is another San Jose St. Next.

No fans and no serious athletic program? This obviously comes from someone who knows nothing about UIC nor what's been going on. Don't have the time nor the inclination to educate you about the hoops program, but the Flames basketball team is on an upward trend.

Our other sports have faired well as witnessed by Baseball finishing 1 or 2 in the HL the last 11 out of 13 years. Oh by the way, baseball plays in a 3-year old 10 million dollar stadium. Men's soccer just won the HL Tourney and a trip to the NCAAs this past season. Softball won the regular season title last season and are in first place after this weekend's action. Our Women's Soccer began in 2014 and has gone 3-15 (1-7) 5-12-2 (2-6-1) and 6-10-2 (4-5).

I'd say we have a very serious athletic program.

The only thing that UIC can get attention in is mbb, which hasn't done anything. The one other program that would have gone over big in Chicago is hockey, which UIC chose to drop 20 years ago. Softball, women's soccer and baseball may be nice for the athletes, but UIC nearly has to pay fans to attend. I'm rooting for UIC though, if it makes any difference. DePaul gets yawns there, and they play in the Big East. How does UIC stand a chance?

UIC beat DePaul this past season, if they can continue to recruit better talent and win the Horizon a couple times they will be in the radar of more prestigeous conferences. However I believe Oakland would be a better pick for the MVC. They had another fine hoops season winning 24 regular season games plus beating Clemson on the road in the opening round of the NIT.losing by 4 on the road to a Richmond team that took down Alabama. Getting into Metro Detroit would be huge for the MVC

(03-28-2017 12:01 PM)Policiious Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 09:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:52 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 05:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 11:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is no need at FCS level for even numbers in Football. FCS schools in odd number conferences have open dates late in the season, which works well with ACC, SEC and Independents who like to schedule FCS games. These are important revenue dates for FCS schools. Since FCS has a playoff, there is no concept of a CCG --those exist mostly for TV revenue at FBS level, since NC playoff has largely devalued them--. For the same reason divisions have no value. The bigger issue is whether the league will schedule an important rival or not. There is no compelling reason to add a 12th. That is why there is no effort to do so.

(I realize some posters partial autism, where they require even numbers or their head explodes will be put forward as an argument. But unless there are competitive and financial reasons to add members, they wont bother with it. Its the REST concept in action ... or inaction, as it were)

The MVFC is not an integral part of the MVC, and the MVC is not dependent upon it, although both the MVC and tSL have influence upon it. The MVC will make the decision for membership that makes the most sense, and it will be a Basketball decision.

You can shake it a hundred different ways, but UIC always comes out top, with Belmont the only real competitor.

And UIC has no fans and does not have a serious athletic program. Ill-Chi is another San Jose St. Next.

No fans and no serious athletic program? This obviously comes from someone who knows nothing about UIC nor what's been going on. Don't have the time nor the inclination to educate you about the hoops program, but the Flames basketball team is on an upward trend.

Our other sports have faired well as witnessed by Baseball finishing 1 or 2 in the HL the last 11 out of 13 years. Oh by the way, baseball plays in a 3-year old 10 million dollar stadium. Men's soccer just won the HL Tourney and a trip to the NCAAs this past season. Softball won the regular season title last season and are in first place after this weekend's action. Our Women's Soccer began in 2014 and has gone 3-15 (1-7) 5-12-2 (2-6-1) and 6-10-2 (4-5).

I'd say we have a very serious athletic program.

The only thing that UIC can get attention in is mbb, which hasn't done anything. The one other program that would have gone over big in Chicago is hockey, which UIC chose to drop 20 years ago. Softball, women's soccer and baseball may be nice for the athletes, but UIC nearly has to pay fans to attend. I'm rooting for UIC though, if it makes any difference. DePaul gets yawns there, and they play in the Big East. How does UIC stand a chance?

UIC beat DePaul this past season, if they can continue to recruit better talent and win the Horizon a couple times they will be in the radar of more prestigeous conferences. However I believe Oakland would be a better pick for the MVC. They had another fine hoops season winning 24 regular season games plus beating Clemson on the road in the opening round of the NIT.losing by 4 on the road to a Richmond team that took down Alabama. Getting into Metro Detroit would be huge for the MVC

Oakland is not a bad choice, but does the MVC want to begin to migrate eastward? You've got to have a partner for Missouri State, so Kansas City would be the better choice geographically there. Like some others have been saying, maybe the Valley should just go gangbusters and invite 3 teams...and I don't have a clue as to who those invitees would or should be.

So the ratio post Wichita leaving is 5 public 4 private. Got to think its a 2 school pool with UIC and Valpo so do they want a 50/50 split of 6/4

(03-28-2017 01:00 PM)bluesox Wrote:  So the ratio post Wichita leaving is 5 public 4 private. Got to think its a 2 school pool with UIC and Valpo so do they want a 50/50 split of 6/4

I doubt Loyola is going to be campaigning for UIC. At least Valpo is across the state line.

This is probably why the Murray State stuff is out there, plus any residual for UMKC (though I doubt MSU is really looking forward to that). It makes sense to look around the current footprint or backfill into lost territory, like Omaha does for the loss of Creighton.

I'm sure most/all would be happy to have St. Louis. No way do those guys go back.

Oakland had been trying to get a Horizon invite forever and Kampe and crew were pretty excited when it finally happened. It is a bus league for them, only Green Bay and Milwaukee are over 4 1/2 hours. They also have Detroit right next door. They have a great thing going, I highly doubt Oakland is going to leave for the MVC.

(03-28-2017 12:38 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:01 PM)Policiious Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 09:00 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:52 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 05:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  And UIC has no fans and does not have a serious athletic program. Ill-Chi is another San Jose St. Next.

No fans and no serious athletic program? This obviously comes from someone who knows nothing about UIC nor what's been going on. Don't have the time nor the inclination to educate you about the hoops program, but the Flames basketball team is on an upward trend.

Our other sports have faired well as witnessed by Baseball finishing 1 or 2 in the HL the last 11 out of 13 years. Oh by the way, baseball plays in a 3-year old 10 million dollar stadium. Men's soccer just won the HL Tourney and a trip to the NCAAs this past season. Softball won the regular season title last season and are in first place after this weekend's action. Our Women's Soccer began in 2014 and has gone 3-15 (1-7) 5-12-2 (2-6-1) and 6-10-2 (4-5).

I'd say we have a very serious athletic program.

The only thing that UIC can get attention in is mbb, which hasn't done anything. The one other program that would have gone over big in Chicago is hockey, which UIC chose to drop 20 years ago. Softball, women's soccer and baseball may be nice for the athletes, but UIC nearly has to pay fans to attend. I'm rooting for UIC though, if it makes any difference. DePaul gets yawns there, and they play in the Big East. How does UIC stand a chance?

UIC beat DePaul this past season, if they can continue to recruit better talent and win the Horizon a couple times they will be in the radar of more prestigeous conferences. However I believe Oakland would be a better pick for the MVC. They had another fine hoops season winning 24 regular season games plus beating Clemson on the road in the opening round of the NIT.losing by 4 on the road to a Richmond team that took down Alabama. Getting into Metro Detroit would be huge for the MVC

Oakland is not a bad choice, but does the MVC want to begin to migrate eastward? You've got to have a partner for Missouri State, so Kansas City would be the better choice geographically there. Like some others have been saying, maybe the Valley should just go gangbusters and invite 3 teams...and I don't have a clue as to who those invitees would or should be.

If the MVC lost Wichita State and added all three of Valparaiso, Detroit, and Oakland, that would give the MVC a 6:6 split.

(03-28-2017 06:05 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the MVC lost Wichita State and added all three of Valparaiso, Detroit, and Oakland, that would give the MVC a 6:6 split.

That's creative.

Don't see Oakland or Detroit being interested. A Horizon CCG in Cleveland is big for them (or is that only the MAC?)

Won't happen, but the MVC and MAC should work together with the MVC taking NIU and Ball St for BB and other oympic sports. The MVC can be the MAC West with auto bids. I'll St, Mo St, UNI and maybe S Illinois need FBS bids from the MAC in return. The MVC could lose those teams too if something isn't done.

Looks like Horizon Tourney will be in Detroit for a long time. Olympia gave them a super sweetheart deal. Oakland and Mercy very comfy in that situation.

MVC obviously more prestigeous than the Horizon but the MVC has not generated too many years of multiple bids. If they had, I would bet Oakland would be interested becasue the Horizon will never be more than 1 bid league, the MVC has had mutliple bids in the past. Have to believe the MVC would love to get their presence in another major hoops talent market.

Horizon did well adding Oakland after the loss of Butler

(03-27-2017 05:38 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 12:21 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  The top 3 targets will be UMKC, UIC and Valpo based on markets only.

The politics of how they'd have to proceed would drive anyone in that conference to want to leave. They replaced a private school with a private school. If a public non-football member left, would they look to another public non-football school?

Most of the options are going to be non-football. However, if the football schools want to go to 12 in the MVFC, it may bring Murray State into play despite having no market. And I believe what little market they have is shared with SIU. I also understand that markets really mean little for the MVC but they may not believe that.

I would guess it will be a public, and probably non-football. I could see this disagreement between the two sides leaving the MVC with 9 for a couple of years. I guess it'll depend on what's really most important to those involved and I have no answers for that.

I don't get it. why would they add anyone? what's the point?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

The MVC and MVFC are two completely different entities. The MVC will propably spend zero time concerning itself with football.