(03-10-2017 10:21 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:18 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:12 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i'm pretty sure igh school basketball players are aware of the ACC without it having to play the tourney in big cities. how does a conference with Duke , UNC , Lville, etc get more exposure than it has.

And you brought up a good point. 5 star recruits would rather play in NYC than Greensboro.

But really...it is more than just impressing recruits. It is about marketing and brand enhancement...having access to national media.

ACC games are on television all the time. i don't undeerstnad your point. i don't there there is any evidence 5 star recruits want to play in NYC, what is the powerhouse college program in the NYC area? Duke and UNC are in Raleigh.

Duke has scheduled four non-conference games in NYC over this season and the last even though they knew they were playing in Brooklyn this year and the next.

Teams that scheduled non-conference games in NYC the past 2 years must just want to catch Phantom:
Duke (4X)
Kentucky (2X)
Michigan (2X)
Pitt (2X)
UConn (2X)
Rutgers (2X)
Penn State (2X)
Wisconsin (2X)
Michigan State
North Carolina
Ohio State
UCLA
Notre Dame
Colorado
Texas
Northwestern
Kansas
SMU
Marquette
Syracuse
Purdue
Arizona State
Florida
Auburn
Boston College
Seton Hall
South Carolina
Georgetown
VCU
Davidson
Appalachian State
WVU
Virginia
Maryland
Utah
Army
Navy

This doesn't include games across the river in the Prudential Center.

It is the same reason football programs that recruit in Florida want to schedule games in Florida. It's about building relationships, brands, and familiarity. Kids also want a chance to play in front of friends and family even if they leave their hometown for school. Honestly, just talk to a coach that recruits NY and see what they have to say.

yeah i'm sure programs like AUburn and Utah and App State are landing all these awesome players from NYC because they played a game in NYC.

so you are saying that because a team plays in NYC, good high school players make sure to watch them. lol

is it even true that a ton of good players come out of NYC. none of the programs in the northeast are really that great. even Cuse only won 1 title with their current coach and that was only b/c of Camelo Anthony.


i would imagine the attendance is a lot higher in Greensboro and other southeastern cities than NYC.

can you even name 1 good basketball player this year that is from NYC.

here's Duke's current roster and their hometowns:

Jayson Tatum F 6-8 205 Fr. St. Louis, MO
1 Harry Giles F 6-10 220 Fr. Winston-Salem, NC
2 Chase Jeter F/C 6-10 240 Fr. Las Vegas, NV
3 Grayson Allen G 6-5 205 So. Jacksonville, FL
5 Luke Kennard G 6-5 180 Fr. Franklin, OH
12 Javin DeLaurier F 6-10 220 Fr. Shipman, VA
13 Matt Jones G 6-5 200 Jr. DeSoto, TX
15 Frank Jackson G 6-3 205 Fr. Alpine, UT
20 Marques Bolden C 6-11 245 Fr. DeSoto, Texas
21 Amile Jefferson F 6-9 225 Sr. Philadelphia, PA
30 Antonio Vrankovic C 7-0 270 Fr. Delray Beach,FL
34 Sean Obi F 6-9 250 So. Kaduna, Nigeria
41 Jack White F 6-5 195 Fr. Traralgon, Australia
45 Nick Pagliuca G 6-3 195 Jr. Weston, MA
50 Justin Robinson F 6-8 190 Fr. San Antonio, TX
53 Brennan Besser G 6-5 180 Fr. Chicago, IL.

(03-10-2017 10:32 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  yeah i'm sure programs like AUburn and Utah and App State are landing all these awesome players from NYC because they played a game in NYC.

so you are saying that because a team plays in NYC, good high school players make sure to watch them. lol

is it even true that a ton of good players come out of NYC. none of the programs in the northeast are really that great. even Cuse only won 1 title with their current coach and that was only b/c of Camelo Anthony.


i would imagine the attendance is a lot higher in Greensboro and other southeastern cities than NYC.

can you even name 1 good basketball player this year that is from NYC.

I'm saying flat out you don't know a damn thing about recruiting NYC.

(03-10-2017 08:59 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 08:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  That media market argument doesn't seem to be working out given the extensive coverage in the NYT today. It was 4 paragraphs in an AP article that covered all the conferences.

The NYT is not noted for their sports section...never has been

NY Post http://nypost.com/?s=ACC+brooklyn

NY Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/search-result...h-url=site

People outside NY read the NYT. NYT stories get picked up by other papers all over the country. NY Post & NYDN not so much. Besides that as Old Roy pointed out the center of the media universe isn't NYC anymore, it's that phone or tablet you are holding.

i'm still waiting for you to list all these stud players out of NYC. please explain how programs not named Duke or UNC, etc are going to get the good players simply because they played a game in NYC. you are not making any sense.

do you have a television? Do you realize from an exposure standpoint, television is much more effective than playing in a specific market?

btw, are you a successful basketball coach? What do you know about recruiting? Who have you ever recruited? name one player in NYC that you have recruited.

so CLemson beating NC State in the tourney did wonders for Clemson recruiting because it was in NYC? lol it doesn't work that way.

(03-10-2017 10:42 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i'm still waiting for you to list all these stud players out of NYC. please explain how programs not named Duke or UNC, etc are going to get the good players simply because they played a game in NYC. you are not making any sense.

do you have a television? Do you realize from an exposure standpoint, television is much more effective than playing in a specific market?

btw, are you a successful basketball coach? What do you know about recruiting? Who have you ever recruited? name one player in NYC that you have recruited.

so CLemson beating NC State in the tourney did wonders for Clemson recruiting because it was in NYC? lol it doesn't work that way.

Talk to an actual coach that actually does recruiting. LMFAO, you either get it or you don't.

Ok how many coaches have you talked to? Why doesn't Duke have a single player from NYC on their roster if it so amazing for recruiting?

I'm still waiting for you to name one good player from NYC in college bball right now.

i would imagine college located near NYC would have exposure in NYC but how many of them are great programs? lol

(03-10-2017 10:42 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i'm still waiting for you to list all these stud players out of NYC. please explain how programs not named Duke or UNC, etc are going to get the good players simply because they played a game in NYC. you are not making any sense.

do you have a television? Do you realize from an exposure standpoint, television is much more effective than playing in a specific market?

btw, are you a successful basketball coach? What do you know about recruiting? Who have you ever recruited?

You are not getting it...I said 5 star players would rather play tournament games in NYC (under the biggest stage in the World) than in Greensboro.

(03-10-2017 10:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:42 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i'm still waiting for you to list all these stud players out of NYC. please explain how programs not named Duke or UNC, etc are going to get the good players simply because they played a game in NYC. you are not making any sense.

do you have a television? Do you realize from an exposure standpoint, television is much more effective than playing in a specific market?

btw, are you a successful basketball coach? What do you know about recruiting? Who have you ever recruited?

You are not getting it...I said 5 star players would rather play tournament games in NYC (under the biggest stage in the World) than in Greensboro.

sounds like speculation to me. i think most players just want to win games. a basketball arena is the same everywhere. there were probably less people at this tournament than in Gboro. so how it is a bigger stage?

the stage is only for people at the game, right? it seem like more people at the game means more exposure.

G Tech is right in the heart of ATL and their program has been struggling more than Clemson in recent years.

here's UNC's current roster. there are all from the southeast. lot of NC.

http://www.goheels.com/SportSelect.dbml?...SPID=12965


this seems like ample evidence that teams don't need to recruit NYC or big city markets well to be good. the key for teams like CLemson is to get the in state talent and more good players from nearby states. it makes much more sense to play games in the south if that is where your college is located.

(03-10-2017 10:51 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:49 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:42 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i'm still waiting for you to list all these stud players out of NYC. please explain how programs not named Duke or UNC, etc are going to get the good players simply because they played a game in NYC. you are not making any sense.

do you have a television? Do you realize from an exposure standpoint, television is much more effective than playing in a specific market?

btw, are you a successful basketball coach? What do you know about recruiting? Who have you ever recruited?

You are not getting it...I said 5 star players would rather play tournament games in NYC (under the biggest stage in the World) than in Greensboro.

sounds like speculation to me. i think most players just want to win games. a basketball arena is the same everywhere. there were probably less people at this tournament than in Gboro. so how it is a bigger stage?

the stage is only for people at the game, right? it seem like more people at the game means more exposure.

G Tech is right in the heart of ATL and their program has been struggling more than Clemson in recent years.

We'll just have to agree to disagree...

ok, i don't think you've supported your assertion tho.

you say 5 star players would prefer to play in NYC. no evidence provided. pure speculation.

i think good players want to play in games with good teams and on teams that can make the big dance.

i wonder why Knicks have struggled so much if playing in NYC is the bees knees for good players.

(03-10-2017 10:48 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  Ok how many coaches have you talked to? Why doesn't Duke have a single player from NYC on their roster if it so amazing for recruiting?

I'm still waiting for you to name one good player from NYC in college bball right now.

i would imagine college located near NYC would have exposure in NYC but how many of them are great programs? lol

Khadeen Carrington off the top of my head. And the Indiana team that, with 3 mins remaining, looks like it is going to be playing for the ACC Championship for the 2nd time in 3 years has a bunch of players from NY and NJ on its roster.

Dozens. Now, I qualify that the ones I've known mostly have recruited in in the northeast and the programs recruited in NYC. I've worked with college basketball both during the season and at their camps in the past. But the story is fairly universal, if you can, you want to get your program in front of players and coaches and handlers in areas that you recruit from or may want to recruit in the future and it helps if you can tell those recruits that they'll have a chance to return home to play in front of family and friends. It's all about getting that edge. NYC isn't what it was 20-30 years ago, but is still produces a bunch of great players. You have dozens of teams from all over the country scheduling and participating in non-conference events in NYC still. Why? Why not Pittsburgh or Charlotte? Heck, the don't even go to Philly or DC or Chicago like they go to NYC. It's a combination of factors including playing under the bright lights, the mystique of going to the basketball mecca, but also the potential for recruits coming out of the area is still a factor that is considered.

There is only one school in NYC that is a close to being a high major and their program has pretty much been a mess for the last 20 years. Some very questionable decisions there including the current coaching choice.

If you don't like or buy the recruiting angle, and Clemson clearly doesn't recruit NYC although maybe it should based on it historical results, revert to the reasoning about building brand in the largest media market in the US. The market that the Big Ten, ACC, and A10 all have scheduled conference tournament in. At the very least, the ACC is launching a cable network in two years. Swofford clearly thinks it is a good idea to build brand in NYC.

(03-10-2017 11:20 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  ok, i don't think you've supported your assertion tho.

you say 5 star players would prefer to play in NYC. no evidence provided. pure speculation.

i think good players want to play in games with good teams and on teams that can make the big dance.

i wonder why Knicks have struggled so much if playing in NYC is the bees knees for good players.

I can't speak for the players, but MSG tourneys are a lot more fun than anywhere else. There's more passion because more people live and work in the area - especially for the northern schools. There's more to do/see when the games aren't on and/or when you're taking a break. And it's generally neat to capture the imagination of somewhere relevant - even if it's only for a week.

Does it help recruiting? Who knows? Probably - but I can't say for sure.

Is it a great change of pace that should be part of the ACC's regular rotation? Yes, absolutely. Every ACC student should experience it st least once.

IMHO, we should buy out MSG once every 4 years. If that means giving the Big East some money and some games to hold a tourney in Chicago once every 4 years, then sobbed it. I'm sure Marquette, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, and DePaul would be receptive.

Is there a history and heritage of holding the tourney in NC? Yes. Is it close to many of the schools and fans of the schools? Yes. Should it be part of the rotation that every ACC fan/student gets to experience? Yes absolutely.

Would DC be a good location, too? Yes.
Would Atlanta and Miami? Eh, not really - not on a regular basis. But it might be good on a rare occasion for the novelty factor.

i don't think there is more passion in NYC for basketball than in the south. i think the fact you like NYC is irrelevant it to being a superior venue for the tournament. i'm not against it being played there

I worked in northern NJ for 6 months outside of NYC and i don't see what the big deal is. most of the fans of the ACC schools did not even attend the tournament so who who cares where the game is played.

i don't understand what your point is that NYC is 'relevant'. that s ounds like homerism to me.

(03-10-2017 11:47 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 10:48 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  Ok how many coaches have you talked to? Why doesn't Duke have a single player from NYC on their roster if it so amazing for recruiting?

I'm still waiting for you to name one good player from NYC in college bball right now.

i would imagine college located near NYC would have exposure in NYC but how many of them are great programs? lol

Khadeen Carrington off the top of my head. And the Indiana team that, with 3 mins remaining, looks like it is going to be playing for the ACC Championship for the 2nd time in 3 years has a bunch of players from NY and NJ on its roster.

Dozens. Now, I qualify that the ones I've known mostly have recruited in in the northeast and the programs recruited in NYC. I've worked with college basketball both during the season and at their camps in the past. But the story is fairly universal, if you can, you want to get your program in front of players and coaches and handlers in areas that you recruit from or may want to recruit in the future and it helps if you can tell those recruits that they'll have a chance to return home to play in front of family and friends. It's all about getting that edge. NYC isn't what it was 20-30 years ago, but is still produces a bunch of great players. You have dozens of teams from all over the country scheduling and participating in non-conference events in NYC still. Why? Why not Pittsburgh or Charlotte? Heck, the don't even go to Philly or DC or Chicago like they go to NYC. It's a combination of factors including playing under the bright lights, the mystique of going to the basketball mecca, but also the potential for recruits coming out of the area is still a factor that is considered.

There is only one school in NYC that is a close to being a high major and their program has pretty much been a mess for the last 20 years. Some very questionable decisions there including the current coaching choice.

If you don't like or buy the recruiting angle, and Clemson clearly doesn't recruit NYC although maybe it should based on it historical results, revert to the reasoning about building brand in the largest media market in the US. The market that the Big Ten, ACC, and A10 all have scheduled conference tournament in. At the very least, the ACC is launching a cable network in two years. Swofford clearly thinks it is a good idea to build brand in NYC.

you can't get more exposure to being on tv and most people are not attending the tournament. how does playing in NYC build a brand more than tv? unless the team is fun to watch and winning games, what good does the exposure do anyway. people already know about UNC and Duke, etc.

the people that do attend are only there because they are a fan of a team.


how do you know CLemson doesn't recruit NYC?
You just making assumptions. Recruiting doesn't mean you land the players.

and again, there are not that many great players out of NYC. you guys make it sound like NYC is producing all these Michael Jordans.

Duke and UNC don't have any players from NYC on their teams.

(03-10-2017 11:20 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  ok, i don't think you've supported your assertion tho.

you say 5 star players would prefer to play in NYC. no evidence provided. pure speculation.

i think good players want to play in games with good teams and on teams that can make the big dance.

i wonder why Knicks have struggled so much if playing in NYC is the bees knees for good players.

My lord, you are using the Knicks as part of your argument? LOL.

Look, no one is going to decide to go play ball at Clemson over UNC because Clemson played a couple non-conference games in NYC and UNC didn't. But if you are recruiting a kid from the northeast against other teams on the same level, and you are regularly scheduling games in the NYC area, it is definitely something you would use in a sales pitch. There are a lot of good players in NYC, whether they are POY candidates or not.

I can tell you with certainty that annually playing in NYC was a huge sales pitch for Pitt when it built its best teams the past 15 years with a chunk of NY players. Almost none of them were really "blue chips," but Pitt was the winningest program in the Big East by winning % the last decade that we were in it, had #1 in-season rankings, and two #1 seeds in the NCAA. NY is 6 hours from Pittsburgh, that's a little further away than it is from Charlottesville. It is still a good place to mine and a good place to keep your contacts up to date. Not every one is Mike Krzyzewski or Roy Williams that can select from every corner of the continent.

ok so you are making NYC out as this amazing place to play yet you thinik my Knicks point isn't relevant to your silly argument? lol you are terrible at debate. if it is the greatest stage on earth, why can't they land better free agents?

why does a program like UNC need to play in NYC to get good players? don't you think a kid wants to play for a college that wins a lot of games and titles and puts a lot of players in the NBA?

you are shifting the goal posts now, previously you were making it about exposure for the conference, now you are saying it only helps elite teams in the ACC to play in NYC. why is it in the best interest for the lesser teams in the ACC to play in a market to help UNC and Duke recruit players? lol

i look at UNC's team and it loaded with players from NC and southern states. but you acting like players from NYC are a difference maker. i have never heard of NY being a major basketball recruiting area.

why aren't Seton Hall and St. John's top programs in college basketball?

(03-11-2017 12:03 AM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i don't think there is more passion in NYC for basketball than in the south. i think the fact you like NYC is irrelevant it to being a superior venue for the tournament. i'm not against it being played there

I worked in northern NJ for 6 months outside of NYC and i don't see what the big deal is. most of the fans of the ACC schools did not even attend the tournament so who who cares where the game is played.

i don't understand what your point is that NYC is 'relevant'. that s ounds like homerism to me.

If you think that there isn't more passion for basketball in NYC than in the south, then there's no way that we're going to agree on anything.

The same goes for relevance. If your theory that NYC = a small town in NC in relevance, then we have wildly different definitions of relevance.