(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

Sports: Yes, but it should be determined by what they were born w/. Additionally, hormones that enhance performance should DQ them.

Other Organizations: Sure. Why not? As long as the org's members are good w/ it, then there's no reason to stop it.

(02-27-2017 01:01 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 12:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 12:26 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 12:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Sports isn't about competing, but about popularity, for the vast majority of the kids participating in it.

Spoken like someone who was either unpopular or uninvolved with sports.

FFS dude that was an unnecessary cheap shot.

What was cheap about it.. Read it again without bias please.

He said " Sports isn't about competing, but about popularity "

If I'm right:
He could have been the most popular kid in school and not on a sports team.

or

He could have been an awesome athlete but not popular.

Not being on a sports team or not being mr popular is not an insult. Some of my best friends in HS never played on a team of any kind, some of the most popular kids in our school never did a sport.

But Tom saying the competitiveness and the things it breeds (teamwork, fair play, etc) are secondary to being popular in HS sports is a fairly twisted view of the benefits of sports. It's not something that too many people who played a sport would say.

Am I wrong in saying that?

Trans kids already have to use the "question mark" restroom, and now you're saying they can't participate in sports. Its not like there aren't student groups and adults who demean Trans kids as a matter of course too.

The school systems in Texas spend a hundred million a year or more to promote the athletes as representing the school and being leaders. The fact that sports athletes are popular are because the school encourages that. How do they encourage Trans kids to be popular and leaders. I suppose if they spent 100 million dollars a year on Trans acceptance alone, then perhaps you'd have an argument.

People play sports to fit in, for most cases. And those who seek to use sports know it. The Fellowship of Christian Athletes isn't recruiting the chess team....they go after the stars in contact sports, because those are the most popular.

And people still want to ban the Trans people from enjoying those benefits. Because many, sadly, want them to be locked away in some closet somewhere.

And for what reason? No valid one. Mack should be on the boys team. Period.

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Mack should be on the boys team. Period.

I actually agree with this. I bet she won't like the results.

(02-27-2017 01:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 12:21 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  in ANY sport or organization originally dedicated to biological sex individuals? For example...

should M to F be allowed to participate in the WNBA, WPGA, American Professional Women's Association, Sociey of Womens Engineers, etc?

Likewise should F to M trans people be allowed to do the inverse?

Seems like the identity politics wing of the left is on a collision course.

Sports: Yes, but it should be determined by what they were born w/. Additionally, hormones that enhance performance should DQ them.

Other Organizations: Sure. Why not? As long as the org's members are good w/ it, then there's no reason to stop it.

So basically spend 100 million a year to promote cisgendered kids while insulting the Trans kids

(02-27-2017 03:56 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Mack should be on the boys team. Period.

I actually agree with this. I bet she won't like the results.

I'll be he will too.

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  now you're saying they can't participate in sports.

Mods can I get a ruling here? Tom has repeatedly said "so you're saying trans kids can't compete" when *exactly nobody* has said that. We have all, on the other side of this issue, corrected him several times about this issue.

What he is saying is demonstrably false and it's being used to derail the conversation.

(02-27-2017 01:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 05:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ham,

Its Texas, its Trans people.

So? If you hate Texas so much, why do you still live there? Don't tell me that you've increasingly thought of leaving because Texas isn't 'worse' in this regard than it was 5 or 10 or 20 years ago. Later on you complain about Ohio.

IM WAITING TO FIGURE OUT HOW OBAMACARE REPEAL WORKS OUT BEFORE MOVING. I'M PROBABLY MOVING TO MEXICO (AT LEAST FOR 6MOS A YEAR) BUT I MIGHT NEED TO PERMANENTLY MOVE TO CALIFORNIA TO ENSURE INSURANCE. TEXAS IS MY HOME. EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT AND 55% OF THE PEOPLE ENDORSE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST LGBT PERSONS.

None of that in any way addresses anything I pointed out.

Probably fewer than 1% of the population in ANY state is Trans... put that into high school and make them athletes and we're talking about a minuscule fraction of the participants. High Schools don't sponsor 'special' sports either, and I guarantee they make up more of the population than Trans.

THEY GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OTHER FUNDING. HOW ABOUT PAYING 100 MILLION A YEAR ON TRANS ACCEPTANCE IN THE TEXAS SCHOOLS. BASICALLY THE UIL JUST WANTS THE TAXPAYERS TO PAY 100 MILLION DOLLARS TO SPONSOR THE COOL CISGENDERED (AND USUALLY CHRISTIAN AND STRAIGHT) KIDS TO BE LEADERS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF THEIR SCHOOLS.

Quote:Come on, you've heard those ads calling all Trans people like child molesters. There's only about 1000 pieces of legislation specifically trying to enable discrimination against them working their way through Dan Patrick's statehouse.

No, I actually have not. Nor do I get my opinions or feelings from commercials. I've seen what you call 'specifically trying to enable discrimination' and 90% of it is just as you're doing here... arguing that because we don't cater to an infinitesimally small sector of the population that has what are mostly 'phantom' issues, that they're being discriminated against.

HERO REPEAL WAS ABOUT A PHANTOM ISSUE. THERE IS REALLY AN INJURED PARTY HERE...THE TRANS PERSON WHO CANNOT EXIST AND COMPETE, DUE TO AN ARBITRARY MISGENDERING BY THE UIL, DONE SPECIFICALLY TO EXCLUDE. BUT THAT INJURED PARTY IS TRANS SO I SUPPOSE THERE'S NO REAL ISSUE. TRANS PEOPLE, DUE TO THEIR SMALL NUMBERS, APPARENTLY HAVE NO RIGHT TO EQUAL PROTECTION.

Go Picket Dan Patrick's State House.

WOULDN'T WORK, REMEMBER GAYS ARE GERRYMANDERED OUT OF A VOICE IN AUSTIN BECAUSE OF DELIBERATE GERRYMANDERING.

Quote:But no, while the war on Trans people is going on, expect full on equal protection arguments to erupt nationally.

Fine... Once again, all you're doing is turning people like me who generally support equality in all respects against you... because 'what you want' isn't equality in ANY respect. YOU and those who share your methods are the one(s) creating the lightning rod for the bigots.... because they can paint EVERYONE on your side of the aisle with your brush in order to dismiss them all.

LOOK, IF YOU THINK THAT 'AN ACCEPTABLE COMPROMISE' IS CONTINUED DISCRIMINATION AGAINST US ONLY, THEN WE CAN'T AGREE. EITHER YOU SUPPORT DISCRIMINATION OR YOU DON'T.

It works, Tom... and the last election should have proven that. Calling people deplorables etc etc who demonstrably aren't doesn't marginalize the deplorables... It marginalizes YOU.... because LOTS of people who would otherwise side with you are the very people you're talking about. I don't support people who call me deplorable because I'm not willing to burn down the house to fix a leaky faucet.

IVE SEEN THAT BEFORE, THEY'LL CLAIM TO AGREE WITH 1% OF SOMETHING, BUT WILL NEVER VOTE FOR ANY CANDIDATE THAT ACTUALLY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR THE LGBT COMMUNITY THAT THOSE WHO DO WISH TO HARM AND HURT US (POLITICAL CHRISTIANS) WISH FOR. I THINK THE 'WILLING TO WORK WITH US' IS REALLY A FIG LEAF, TO BE HONEST. FOR THEIR BENEFIT, NOT OURS. WHAT THEY APPEAR TO WANT IS TO FULLY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LGBT PERSONS BUT TRY TO PRETEND THAT WHAT THEY'RE ADVOCATING AND VOTING FOR ISN'T SO BAD. IT IS.

My comments in ALL CAPS

Now, ignoring you're repeated attempts to tag me as saying something I have not said... Let's move on.

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The school systems in Texas spend a hundred million a year or more to promote the athletes as representing the school and being leaders.

Citation needed... Where can you site the % of Texas Athletic spending aimed at "promoting the athletes as representing the school and being leaders".

Where is the percetnage breakdown which says... This line item is for "promotion of representation" and This line item is for "coaches" and this one is for "Liability insurance"

Quote:The fact that sports athletes are popular are because the school encourages that.

Citation needed: As I said, some of the most popular kids in my school never played a sport and some of the outsiders in my school were accomplish athletes.

Quote:How do they encourage Trans kids to be popular and leaders.

A gay band member was one of the most popular kids in my school.

Quote:I suppose if they spent 100 million dollars a year on Trans acceptance alone, then perhaps you'd have an argument.

Citation needed: I need the line item budget I spoke about above.

Quote:People play sports to fit in, for most cases.

Citation needed: My kids do sports to learn diciplin, competitiveness, and fun. Not to "fit in". One of my girls will fit in anywhere and one will always be a bit awkward. It's just who they are.

According to a survey by "Sports Reasons" the number of kids whose primary play sports to fit in / make friends is about 1/10. The number who compete for fun is 1/4

Quote:And those who seek to use sports know it.

Citation needed... I've given some numbers, please reciprocate.

Quote:The Fellowship of Christian Athletes isn't recruiting the chess team

As stated above, Chess is not a sport so why would the FCA recruit chess players?

Quote:....they go after the stars in contact sports, because those are the most popular.

Citation needed

Quote:And people still want to ban the Trans people from enjoying those benefits.

DO I have to run upthread and show you all the people here who said, sans peds, they don't care if a girl plays boys sports?

Quote:Because many, sadly, want them to be locked away in some closet somewhere.

That's all in your head,.

Quote:And for what reason? No valid one. Mack should be on the boys team. Period.

Show me her treatments are not giving her a high level of T and I'll agree.

(02-27-2017 04:06 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  now you're saying they can't participate in sports.

Mods can I get a ruling here? Tom has repeatedly said "so you're saying trans kids can't compete" when *exactly nobody* has said that. We have all, on the other side of this issue, corrected him several times about this issue.

What he is saying is demonstrably false and it's being used to derail the conversation.

Ok, I'll amend this to say "you're saying that Trans kids cannot compete and be Trans at the same time". I really don't see the difference.

Basically, if you exist as a Trans person (which involves some hormones), then you can't play, is what you're arguing.

LOTS OF PEOPLE here are trying to tell Trans kids they cannot compete...unless they aren't Trans. I just don't see your point.

The point is to be Trans, and equally integrated into all aspects of high school.

(02-27-2017 04:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Ok, I'll amend this to say "you're saying that Trans kids cannot compete and be Trans at the same time". I really don't see the difference.

Thats still horse manure. Unless you're saying only someone taking hormones is truely trans.

Is that what you're saying tom? That a trans kids not taking hormones is not really trans?

I only ask because yuou have a proclivity to tell us "who's not really gay", "who's not really black", and now perhaps "who's not really trans".

Quote:Basically, if you exist as a Trans person (which involves some hormones), then you can't play, is what you're arguing.

Hormones are a medical treatment. You don't need a medical treatment to be something. If you're trans it's not because you are shooting up puberty blockers and sex hormones.

Quote:LOTS OF PEOPLE here are trying to tell Trans kids they cannot compete...unless they aren't Trans. I just don't see your point.

So you are on record as saying a trans person not shooting up sex hormones is not really trans.

(02-26-2017 05:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  .... unless you're going to allow natural born girls to take artificial testosterone from birth until high school and still compete as 'women'.

It worked for East Germany in the '70's and '80's....

(02-27-2017 04:15 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  No ignoring you're repeated attempts to tag me as saying something I have not said... Let's move on.

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The school systems in Texas spend a hundred million a year or more to promote the athletes as representing the school and being leaders.

Citation needed... Where can you site the % of Texas Athletic spending aimed at "promoting the athletes as representing the school and being leaders". EVERY COACHS SALARY. ALL THE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES ON FOOTBALL STADIUMS AND WEIGHT ROOMS ETC. ITS PROBABLY A LOT MORE THAN 100 MILLION A YEAR.

Where is the percetnage breakdown which says... This line item is for "promotion of representation" and This line item is for "coaches" and this one is for "Liability insurance"

Quote:The fact that sports athletes are popular are because the school encourages that.

Citation needed: As I said, some of the most popular kids in my school never played a sport and some of the outsiders in my school were accomplish athletes.

Quote:How do they encourage Trans kids to be popular and leaders.

A gay band member was one of the most popular kids in my school.

CONGRATS ON THAT VERY RARE EXPERIENCE. THAT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE.

THEY ENCOURAGE IT BY SPENDING MILLIONS ON STADIUMS AND ARENAS AND COACHES TO PROMOTE THE COOL KIDS PLAYING COOL PHYISCAL SPORTS AS LEADERS WHO REPRESENT THE SCHOOL. THROWING 5 BUCKS AT THE CHESS TEAM ISN'T EQUIVALENT. THERE'S NO PEP RALLY FOR CHESS. THERE'S NO CHEERLEADER FOR CHESS. THERE'S NO HOMECOMING FOR CHESS.

Quote:I suppose if they spent 100 million dollars a year on Trans acceptance alone, then perhaps you'd have an argument.

Citation needed: I need the line item budget I spoke about above.

Quote:People play sports to fit in, for most cases.

Citation needed: My kids do sports to learn diciplin, competitiveness, and fun. Not to "fit in". One of my girls will fit in anywhere and one will always be a bit awkward. It's just who they are.

I SUPPOSE TRANS KIDS SHOULD JUST BE EXCLUDED FROM COMPETITIVENESS AND FUN (LIKELY IN TEXAS) BY THE TEXAS AUTHORITIES. IT APPEARS THAT TEXAS JUST WANTS TO MAKE EXCLUSION, INSULTS, AND ISOLATION THE ONLY THING ON OFFER FOR TRANS KIDS.

According to a survey by "Sports Reasons" the number of kids whose primary play sports to fit in / make friends is about 1/10. The number who compete for fun is 1/4

Quote:And those who seek to use sports know it.

Citation needed... I've given some numbers, please reciprocate.

Quote:The Fellowship of Christian Athletes isn't recruiting the chess team

As stated above, Chess is not a sport so why would the FCA recruit chess players?

BECAUSE THEIR ENTIRE MODEL APPEARS TO GET A LOCKHOLD ON THE FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL TEAMS. THEN MAKE THEIR RELIGIOUS SERVICES PART OF BEING 'A TEAM PLAYER'. MARGINALIZE THOSE THAT AREN'T CHRISTIAN OR AREN'T STRAIGHT. THEN USE SPORTS FOR EVANGELISM. MY POINT IS THAT FCA'S RECRUITMENT IS REALLY ABOUT POPULARITY OF THE SPORTS VERSUS OTHER ACTIVITIES. WONDER WHY THERE ISN'T A FELLOWSHIP OF CHRISTIAN CHESS PLAYERS? I DON'T.

Quote:....they go after the stars in contact sports, because those are the most popular.

Citation needed

Quote:And people still want to ban the Trans people from enjoying those benefits.

DO I have to run upthread and show you all the people here who said, sans peds, they don't care if a girl plays boys sports?

AGAIN, TRANS PEOPLE NEED HORMONE TREATMENT. BANNING THEM FROM TAKING HORMONE TREATMENT IS THE SAME AS EXCLUDING THEM FROM PARTICIPATING WHILE BEING TRANS.

Quote:Because many, sadly, want them to be locked away in some closet somewhere.

WANNA LISTEN SOME ANTI-HERO ADS. TEXAS DOESN'T WANT TO EVEN ALLOW THEM TO USE THE RESTROOM WITHOUT BEING CALLED OUT AS FREAKS.

That's all in your head,.

Quote:And for what reason? No valid one. Mack should be on the boys team. Period.

Show me her treatments are not giving her a high level of T and I'll agree. THAT IS THE NCAA RULE, AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT. BUT THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN IN TEXAS BECAUSE THE UIL AND THE STATE IS VERY HATEFUL TOWARDS TRANS PERSON. THATS A POLITICAL FACT OF LIFE. AND THE KIDS HERE CAN'T JUST MOVE EITHER. THEY'RE STUCK.

MY RESPONSES IN ALL CAPS

(02-27-2017 04:32 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 05:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  .... unless you're going to allow natural born girls to take artificial testosterone from birth until high school and still compete as 'women'.

It worked for East Germany in the '70's and '80's....

Mack wished to compete as his gender, which is male.

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  EVERY COACHS SALARY. ALL THE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES ON FOOTBALL STADIUMS AND WEIGHT ROOMS ETC. ITS PROBABLY A LOT MORE THAN 100 MILLION A YEAR.

SO you don't have a line item budget then. You can't with any factual evidence say "The school systems in Texas spend a hundred million a year or more to promote the athletes as representing the school and being leaders"

Quote:AGAIN, TRANS PEOPLE NEED HORMONE TREATMENT.

No. At 13-17, they really don't. Those hormone treatments did not exist not all that long ago the the medical soundness of puberty blockers and sex hormone treatments is still in debate.

You're "no true scottsman" attitude could end up hurting trans kids.

Quote:BANNING THEM FROM TAKING HORMONE TREATMENT IS THE SAME AS EXCLUDING THEM FROM PARTICIPATING WHILE BEING TRANS.

No, it's really not. And yelling it over and over does not change that.

http://www.vox.com/cards/transgender-myt...transition

"Not everyone who is transgender prioritizes or desires procedures, such as hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries, required for a full medical transition."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/articl...d-unknown/

The physical changes that hormones bring about are irreversible, making the decision more weighty than taking puberty blockers. Some of the known side effects of hormones include things that might sound familiar: acne and changes in mood. Patients are also warned that they may be at higher risk for heart disease or diabetes later in life. The risk of blood clots increases for those who start estrogen. And the risk for cancer is an unknown, but it is included in the warnings doctors give their patients.

Another potential dilemma facing transgender children, their families and their doctors is this: Taking cross hormones can reduce fertility. And there isn’t enough research to find out of it is reversible or not. So when children make the decision to start taking hormones, they have to consider whether they ever want to have biological children.

The rush to push adolescents and teens into treatments that are life altering and potentially medically unsound is what brings this to a head. But it's ok to sacrifice a few young lives on the alter of LFBTQLMNOPAS rights.

(02-27-2017 04:06 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  now you're saying they can't participate in sports.

Mods can I get a ruling here? Tom has repeatedly said "so you're saying trans kids can't compete" when *exactly nobody* has said that. We have all, on the other side of this issue, corrected him several times about this issue.

What he is saying is demonstrably false and it's being used to derail the conversation.

It's borderline trolling. He IS making a point along with his denial, but it's close. He didn't start this thread.

(02-27-2017 04:12 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  IM WAITING TO FIGURE OUT HOW OBAMACARE REPEAL WORKS OUT BEFORE MOVING. I'M PROBABLY MOVING TO MEXICO (AT LEAST FOR 6MOS A YEAR) BUT I MIGHT NEED TO PERMANENTLY MOVE TO CALIFORNIA TO ENSURE INSURANCE. TEXAS IS MY HOME. EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT AND 55% OF THE PEOPLE ENDORSE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST LGBT PERSONS.

Not even dignifying this response... It's a pure deflection. Things in Texas certainly haven't gotten worse for LGBT persons over your life and I seem to recall you saying you've lived all over. Because you know, Gays in Mexico have it made, right?

Quote:THEY GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN OTHER FUNDING. HOW ABOUT PAYING 100 MILLION A YEAR ON TRANS ACCEPTANCE IN THE TEXAS SCHOOLS. BASICALLY THE UIL JUST WANTS THE TAXPAYERS TO PAY 100 MILLION DOLLARS TO SPONSOR THE COOL CISGENDERED (AND USUALLY CHRISTIAN AND STRAIGHT) KIDS TO BE LEADERS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF THEIR SCHOOLS.

I SHOULD ignore this as well as it once again ignores what I said. 100mm/yr would be numerous hundreds of thousands of dollars per trans person in the state, but is only a few hundred dollars for the 'cool' kids. There is nothing 'Christian' about athletics and given the number of gay women in college sports, I think your point is demonstrably untrue. We also spend money on education, which knows no gender bounds and most decent schools spend money on art and music and writing which quite frankly skew the other way. The problem is, there aren't thousands of small towns in Texas (or anywhere else for that matter) that want to shut down on Friday afternoon to go watch 'somebody else's kids' participate in the science fair.

Hint... California does exactly the same thing.

Quote:HERO REPEAL WAS ABOUT A PHANTOM ISSUE. THERE IS REALLY AN INJURED PARTY HERE...THE TRANS PERSON WHO CANNOT EXIST AND COMPETE, DUE TO AN ARBITRARY MISGENDERING BY THE UIL, DONE SPECIFICALLY TO EXCLUDE. BUT THAT INJURED PARTY IS TRANS SO I SUPPOSE THERE'S NO REAL ISSUE. TRANS PEOPLE, DUE TO THEIR SMALL NUMBERS, APPARENTLY HAVE NO RIGHT TO EQUAL PROTECTION.

So if trans-women are allowed to compete as women, how does that not unfairly take that opportunity from someone who didn't get 15+ years of male hormones and societal pressures?

How is the UIL arbitrarily mis-gendering anyone? I'd note that it was a Texas Trans-Gendered female who was allowed IN TEXAS to compete in a UIL sanctioned sport that I'm quite certain, relatively large sums of money are spent on.

So here you are fussing about Texas, and fussing about the UIL... yet it is precisely the Texas UIL that gave you exactly what you seem to want...

and you're not happy.

I rest my case on you

FTR, if they change the rules and make everyone compete with the boys, which obviously would favor boys over both trans AND girls, it still wouldn't be arbitrary OR mis-gendering anyone.

Quote:Go Picket Dan Patrick's State House.

WOULDN'T WORK, REMEMBER GAYS ARE GERRYMANDERED OUT OF A VOICE IN AUSTIN BECAUSE OF DELIBERATE GERRYMANDERING.

Bull
1) even if true, your chances of changing things are far better by doing what I suggested than complaining on here
2) it's not true enough to make any difference. LGBT persons are an overwhelming minority in every state so even if you HAD a voice, it would be over-ruled by everyone else. Your choices are... have say 10% of the vote in every district, or somehow (through gerrymandering yourself) create a district that is majority LGBT and have say 51% of the vote in your one district, and the result would be zero voice in any other. The proof is California, where Republicans control nothing but football still gets hundreds of millions while band gets far less.
3) as I pointed out, you got what you want in Texas... and you're not happy.

Quote:LOOK, IF YOU THINK THAT 'AN ACCEPTABLE COMPROMISE' IS CONTINUED DISCRIMINATION AGAINST US ONLY, THEN WE CAN'T AGREE. EITHER YOU SUPPORT DISCRIMINATION OR YOU DON'T.

You're the one ASKING for discrimination, Tom... You can try and pretend it's not, but we're not stupid.

Quote:IVE SEEN THAT BEFORE, THEY'LL CLAIM TO AGREE WITH 1% OF SOMETHING, BUT WILL NEVER VOTE FOR ANY CANDIDATE THAT ACTUALLY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR THE LGBT COMMUNITY THAT THOSE WHO DO WISH TO HARM AND HURT US (POLITICAL CHRISTIANS) WISH FOR. I THINK THE 'WILLING TO WORK WITH US' IS REALLY A FIG LEAF, TO BE HONEST. FOR THEIR BENEFIT, NOT OURS. WHAT THEY APPEAR TO WANT IS TO FULLY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LGBT PERSONS BUT TRY TO PRETEND THAT WHAT THEY'RE ADVOCATING AND VOTING FOR ISN'T SO BAD. IT IS.

Who is 'they' Tom? I'm talking about me and people like me. If you think I'm all that unique, that's fine... but you're wrong.

All you're doing is exactly what 'they' did... you pick the worst person, and then equate 'the majority of us' with that horrible opinion.

(02-27-2017 04:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 04:32 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 05:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  .... unless you're going to allow natural born girls to take artificial testosterone from birth until high school and still compete as 'women'.

It worked for East Germany in the '70's and '80's....

Mack wished to compete as his gender, which is male.

Obviously you missed his point, which was that in the 70's and 80's, "Eastern Bloc Countries' with some regularity gave male hormones to their female, but not trans athletes in an effort to improve their competitiveness... which is why not even males can take male steroids.... because it is inherently unfair.

So how is it fair that someone who has essentially taken male hormones for the majority of their lives (up until their transition) now should be allowed to compete against females who are legally barred from taking male hormones?

The cons pull that same tactic all the time on here.

(02-27-2017 03:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 03:56 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-27-2017 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Mack should be on the boys team. Period.

I actually agree with this. I bet she won't like the results.

I'll be he will too.

I agree....if there was no girls team. Since there is? That is where she should wrestle.... without PEDs. This is pretty damn simple.

We had a girl on our golf team in HS because they have no girls team. She was the best golfer on the team...and eventually had a good career on the LPGA.

(02-26-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Simple solution. Women's/girls' competitions are open only to genetic females not taking any gender alteration drugs that would tend to be performance enhancing. Men's/boys' competitions are open competitions, open to all.

Nope..Not good enough for Tom. No compromise...period. The alphabets must get their way 100 percent.

Full equality. Nothing more, nothing less. And no, passing a bunch of rules in order to stop participation by Trans kids is targeting.

The issue with Owl's plan is that it makes M to F Trans kids compete in their incorrect gender. You want male wrestlers to compete against a kid with boobs?

Letting trans-boys compete with cis-boys is fine, but if you let trans-girls compete in the girls' categories then that's completely unfair against cis-girls. If your solution for equality for a tiny minority disproportionately impacts a majority of competing females then it is entirely unsatisfactory.

(02-27-2017 07:10 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 12:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Simple solution. Women's/girls' competitions are open only to genetic females not taking any gender alteration drugs that would tend to be performance enhancing. Men's/boys' competitions are open competitions, open to all.

Nope..Not good enough for Tom. No compromise...period. The alphabets must get their way 100 percent.

Full equality. Nothing more, nothing less. And no, passing a bunch of rules in order to stop participation by Trans kids is targeting.
The issue with Owl's plan is that it makes M to F Trans kids compete in their incorrect gender. You want male wrestlers to compete against a kid with boobs?

Letting trans-boys compete with cis-boys is fine, but if you let trans-girls compete in the girls' categories then that's completely unfair against cis-girls. If your solution for equality for a tiny minority disproportionately impacts a majority of competing females then it is entirely unsatisfactory.

Tom doesn't give a rat's ass about the effect on anybody but the trans kids. The rest deserve zero consideration in his mind.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app