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(02-06-2017 10:32 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  He hasn't landed a freshman big in 4 years, the odds of him landing one this signing period, much less a GOOD one, seem remote.

I'll be the first to say that we absolutely need a big for next year, and then, probably two in the recruiting class the following year. However, I don't understand the obsession with recruiting a "freshman big."

At this level, very few freshmen bigs are ready to come in and play right away. Jones has landed Arledge for one year, and Brandan and Trey for three years each. I'm ok with those guys. In my opinion, the problem has been getting quality depth in the post. Right now, we have Brandan and Trey, but after that, our next best move is putting Talley at the 4. Vassor and Carver just cannot be playing big minutes for us right now.

(02-07-2017 08:49 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 10:32 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  He hasn't landed a freshman big in 4 years, the odds of him landing one this signing period, much less a GOOD one, seem remote.

I'll be the first to say that we absolutely need a big for next year, and then, probably two in the recruiting class the following year. However, I don't understand the obsession with recruiting a "freshman big."

At this level, very few freshmen bigs are ready to come in and play right away. Jones has landed Arledge for one year, and Brandan and Trey for three years each. I'm ok with those guys. In my opinion, the problem has been getting quality depth in the post. Right now, we have Brandan and Trey, but after that, our next best move is putting Talley at the 4. Vassor and Carver just cannot be playing big minutes for us right now.

For next year, I am ok with this. BJ is a good rebounder at the 3 and he can help Talley on the boards. This allows us to get a lot of scorers on the floor. We do need a big man though.

We can only afford to put Talley at the 4 if we can make our shots. Hopefully the new class and Green will help with that.

(02-07-2017 08:49 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-06-2017 10:32 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  He hasn't landed a freshman big in 4 years, the odds of him landing one this signing period, much less a GOOD one, seem remote.

I'll be the first to say that we absolutely need a big for next year, and then, probably two in the recruiting class the following year. However, I don't understand the obsession with recruiting a "freshman big."

At this level, very few freshmen bigs are ready to come in and play right away. Jones has landed Arledge for one year, and Brandan and Trey for three years each. I'm ok with those guys. In my opinion, the problem has been getting quality depth in the post. Right now, we have Brandan and Trey, but after that, our next best move is putting Talley at the 4. Vassor and Carver just cannot be playing big minutes for us right now.

I don't think freshman bigs are all that important, but we HAVE to stop settling for JUCOs. The JUCOs available to programs like ours, are almost universally terrible. The examples you gave are good ones, Sophomores or 5th years make a lot of sense, but I am not sure anything else does, and now that Paul Hewitt is gone I don't think GMU will be supplying us any more bigs.

Over the years ODU has had some high quality big men that transferred in and played less than 4 years.

Wilson Washington and Chris Gatling are probably the two best, with guys like Arledge, Porter, Stith, and Painter also playing well as transfers. I would rate Wilson Washington as ODU's best transfer ever at any position. He was a game changer at both ends of the floor.

History shows that there is some merit for having guys come in as Freshmen.

Joel Copeland, Mark West, Kenny Gattison, Clarance Hanley, Odell Hodge, Alex Laughton, Arnaud Dahi, Valdas Vasillias, Gerald Lee, Chris Cooper, and Frank Hassell being among the best as 4 year players. I believe that list to be longer than the list of similar transfer players, but then again the system that allows players to transfer has changed some over the years too so it probably isn't a direct correlation to compare the two groups.

Given a choice I would probably recruit both quality transfers and quality high school players. I do think it is a problem to continually rely on transfers to keep a program afloat. The pool to draw from is less defined from year to year as opposed to high school players who you know are going to be graduating in any given year. It makes recruiting across the board like trying to navigate through a mine field. Plus, the upside of getting high school players coming into the program is that you get to mold them over a longer period of time to develop their game to fit your needs. Frank Hassell is as good of an example of that as any.

Many of the 4 year big men listed above made significant contributions to the team during their Freshman seasons, but I agree that can't always be counted on to be the case. The big plus with getting transfers is that you should have a better idea of what you will end up with, although it hasn't always panned out that way for ODU over the past few years.

(02-07-2017 11:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Over the years ODU has had some high quality big men that transferred in and played less than 4 years.

Wilson Washington and Chris Gatling are probably the two best, with guys like Arledge, Porter, Stith, and Painter also playing well as transfers. I would rate Wilson Washington as ODU's best transfer ever at any position. He was a game changer at both ends of the floor.

History shows that there is some merit for having guys come in as Freshmen.

Joel Copeland, Mark West, Kenny Gattison, Clarance Hanley, Odell Hodge, Alex Laughton, Arnaud Dahi, Valdas Vasillias, Gerald Lee, Chris Cooper, and Frank Hassell being among the best as 4 year players. I believe that list to be longer than the list of similar transfer players, but then again the system that allows players to transfer has changed some over the years too so it probably isn't a direct correlation to compare the two groups.

Given a choice I would probably recruit both quality transfers and quality high school players. I do think it is a problem to continually rely on transfers to keep a program afloat. The pool to draw from is less defined from year to year as opposed to high school players who you know are going to be graduating in any given year. It makes recruiting across the board like trying to navigate through a mine field. Plus, the upside of getting high school players coming into the program is that you get to mold them over a longer period of time to develop their game to fit your needs. Frank Hassell is as good of an example of that as any.

Many of the 4 year big men listed above made significant contributions to the team during their Freshman seasons, but I agree that can't always be counted on to be the case. The big plus with getting transfers is that you should have a better idea of what you will end up with, although it hasn't always panned out that way for ODU over the past few years.

I don't think they should go in with pre-conceived notions in any year. If you can get a talented transfer; fine. If the high school crop is better, sobeit. There is no reason to turn down a transfer like Porter just to get a freshman you can "develop." Porter will be here 4 years with 3 years on the court; he's being developed as well.

We were in on some good high school recruits but lost out...Dickens, Carlton, Gueye. I was hoping for Yetna, but he recently got offered by Iowa State so he's probably out. Kante seems to be out. If Williams doesn't come here, we may have to go the transfer route.

I think the thing that is off putting about transfers for some is that a lot of the transfers we have brought in were fall backs. The staff was unable to secure a player they wanted, and then settled for a warm body. Transfers are not necessarily bad, but the last minute fall back guys, and the fact that we continually need to find fall back guys, is the real problem.

(02-07-2017 11:59 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Over the years ODU has had some high quality big men that transferred in and played less than 4 years.

Wilson Washington and Chris Gatling are probably the two best, with guys like Arledge, Porter, Stith, and Painter also playing well as transfers. I would rate Wilson Washington as ODU's best transfer ever at any position. He was a game changer at both ends of the floor.

History shows that there is some merit for having guys come in as Freshmen.

Joel Copeland, Mark West, Kenny Gattison, Clarance Hanley, Odell Hodge, Alex Laughton, Arnaud Dahi, Valdas Vasillias, Gerald Lee, Chris Cooper, and Frank Hassell being among the best as 4 year players. I believe that list to be longer than the list of similar transfer players, but then again the system that allows players to transfer has changed some over the years too so it probably isn't a direct correlation to compare the two groups.

Given a choice I would probably recruit both quality transfers and quality high school players. I do think it is a problem to continually rely on transfers to keep a program afloat. The pool to draw from is less defined from year to year as opposed to high school players who you know are going to be graduating in any given year. It makes recruiting across the board like trying to navigate through a mine field. Plus, the upside of getting high school players coming into the program is that you get to mold them over a longer period of time to develop their game to fit your needs. Frank Hassell is as good of an example of that as any.

Many of the 4 year big men listed above made significant contributions to the team during their Freshman seasons, but I agree that can't always be counted on to be the case. The big plus with getting transfers is that you should have a better idea of what you will end up with, although it hasn't always panned out that way for ODU over the past few years.

I don't think they should go in with pre-conceived notions in any year. If you can get a talented transfer; fine. If the high school crop is better, sobeit. There is no reason to turn down a transfer like Porter just to get a freshman you can "develop." Porter will be here 4 years with 3 years on the court; he's being developed as well.

We were in on some good high school recruits but lost out...Dickens, Carlton, Gueye. I was hoping for Yetna, but he recently got offered by Iowa State so he's probably out. Kante seems to be out. If Williams doesn't come here, we may have to go the transfer route.

Didn't Gueye commit to UAB? If other CUSA schools can get it done, theres no reason we can't either.

(02-07-2017 12:12 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:59 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Over the years ODU has had some high quality big men that transferred in and played less than 4 years.

Wilson Washington and Chris Gatling are probably the two best, with guys like Arledge, Porter, Stith, and Painter also playing well as transfers. I would rate Wilson Washington as ODU's best transfer ever at any position. He was a game changer at both ends of the floor.

History shows that there is some merit for having guys come in as Freshmen.

Joel Copeland, Mark West, Kenny Gattison, Clarance Hanley, Odell Hodge, Alex Laughton, Arnaud Dahi, Valdas Vasillias, Gerald Lee, Chris Cooper, and Frank Hassell being among the best as 4 year players. I believe that list to be longer than the list of similar transfer players, but then again the system that allows players to transfer has changed some over the years too so it probably isn't a direct correlation to compare the two groups.

Given a choice I would probably recruit both quality transfers and quality high school players. I do think it is a problem to continually rely on transfers to keep a program afloat. The pool to draw from is less defined from year to year as opposed to high school players who you know are going to be graduating in any given year. It makes recruiting across the board like trying to navigate through a mine field. Plus, the upside of getting high school players coming into the program is that you get to mold them over a longer period of time to develop their game to fit your needs. Frank Hassell is as good of an example of that as any.

Many of the 4 year big men listed above made significant contributions to the team during their Freshman seasons, but I agree that can't always be counted on to be the case. The big plus with getting transfers is that you should have a better idea of what you will end up with, although it hasn't always panned out that way for ODU over the past few years.

I don't think they should go in with pre-conceived notions in any year. If you can get a talented transfer; fine. If the high school crop is better, sobeit. There is no reason to turn down a transfer like Porter just to get a freshman you can "develop." Porter will be here 4 years with 3 years on the court; he's being developed as well.

We were in on some good high school recruits but lost out...Dickens, Carlton, Gueye. I was hoping for Yetna, but he recently got offered by Iowa State so he's probably out. Kante seems to be out. If Williams doesn't come here, we may have to go the transfer route.

Didn't Gueye commit to UAB? If other CUSA schools can get it done, theres no reason we can't either.

Yep, I think we were down to wire with Gueye.

Just a note about transfers; just because they are announced later on (after the spring semester), does not mean there wasn't an agreement in place long before that. Heck, we may already have an agreement with a transfer for all we know.

(02-07-2017 11:59 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 11:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Over the years ODU has had some high quality big men that transferred in and played less than 4 years.

Wilson Washington and Chris Gatling are probably the two best, with guys like Arledge, Porter, Stith, and Painter also playing well as transfers. I would rate Wilson Washington as ODU's best transfer ever at any position. He was a game changer at both ends of the floor.

History shows that there is some merit for having guys come in as Freshmen.

Joel Copeland, Mark West, Kenny Gattison, Clarance Hanley, Odell Hodge, Alex Laughton, Arnaud Dahi, Valdas Vasillias, Gerald Lee, Chris Cooper, and Frank Hassell being among the best as 4 year players. I believe that list to be longer than the list of similar transfer players, but then again the system that allows players to transfer has changed some over the years too so it probably isn't a direct correlation to compare the two groups.

Given a choice I would probably recruit both quality transfers and quality high school players. I do think it is a problem to continually rely on transfers to keep a program afloat. The pool to draw from is less defined from year to year as opposed to high school players who you know are going to be graduating in any given year. It makes recruiting across the board like trying to navigate through a mine field. Plus, the upside of getting high school players coming into the program is that you get to mold them over a longer period of time to develop their game to fit your needs. Frank Hassell is as good of an example of that as any.

Many of the 4 year big men listed above made significant contributions to the team during their Freshman seasons, but I agree that can't always be counted on to be the case. The big plus with getting transfers is that you should have a better idea of what you will end up with, although it hasn't always panned out that way for ODU over the past few years.

I don't think they should go in with pre-conceived notions in any year. If you can get a talented transfer; fine. If the high school crop is better, sobeit. There is no reason to turn down a transfer like Porter just to get a freshman you can "develop." Porter will be here 4 years with 3 years on the court; he's being developed as well.

We were in on some good high school recruits but lost out...Dickens, Carlton, Gueye. I was hoping for Yetna, but he recently got offered by Iowa State so he's probably out. Kante seems to be out. If Williams doesn't come here, we may have to go the transfer route.

Of course younger transfers can also "develop", much like a high school recruit is expected to. That goes without saying. Well, at least I thought it did. Porter and both of the Stith brothers are still developing since none of them had played but one year of college.

By the way, Porter falls into the "quality transfer" category of players that I clearly indicated are among those that I would recruit. Former player Frank Hassell falls into the high school category of players that I would recruit to "develop". IF the implication is that I would have passed on Porter to get a high school recruit to develop (and I needed immediate help at that position) then of course I would take only Porter if I was limited to one or the other. On the other hand, IF I had recruited a Frank Hassell out of high school a couple of years earlier then I may not need another big man recruit next season since I would have another two years of his service. I could be out looking for the next Michael Hueitt JR type instead.

If ODU does as it has done recently by recruiting one and two year eligibility guys at the center position then they are pretty much going to be looking for their next big man every year. Painter and Arledge are two very recent examples of them doing that. Getting Brandon and Porter has been an improvement on that but still limits them to having the services of the player available for just 3 years. Not too bad, but not as good as guys like Mark West, Odell Hodge, Alex Laughton, Gerald Lee, Valdas Vasillias, Arnaud Dahi, Frank Hassell, etc. that could play and contribute for 4 years (or 33% more since you like stats).

More importantly than any of that is the simple fact that available transfers are an unknown group from year to year. High school players are a better defined and easier to target group to recruit. Plus there are more of them to select from. It could be that ODU taking in transfer big men for the past several years is the biggest reason that high school big men are not wanting to select ODU. They know they are going to be sitting on the bench behind those guys.

If I were a head coach I would also strongly consider trying to get an assistant that had some solid ties to some overseas recruiting areas. It wouldn't be the sole criteria by any means, but it would be a plus if a candidate had that when I was making the selection.

"If I were a head coach I would also strongly consider trying to get an assistant that had some solid ties to some overseas recruiting areas. It wouldn't be the sole criteria by any means, but it would be a plus if a candidate had that when I was making the selection."

We have a assistant coach, Kelvin Jefferson, who was brought in for just that according to the media reports when he was hired. I know poster Coach has listed at least one person overseas that we have offered, maybe he can speak to this new assistant.(this is his first season)

(02-07-2017 05:49 PM)mac Wrote:  "If I were a head coach I would also strongly consider trying to get an assistant that had some solid ties to some overseas recruiting areas. It wouldn't be the sole criteria by any means, but it would be a plus if a candidate had that when I was making the selection."

We have a assistant coach, Kelvin Jefferson, who was brought in for just that according to the media reports when he was hired. I know poster Coach has listed at least one person overseas that we have offered, maybe he can speak to this new assistant.(this is his first season)

Thanks for sharing that information with us Mac. I was not aware of Kelvin having that in his resume. Hope it will someday soon pay dividends for ODU.

Over the years the ODU men have gotten a few stellar performers from the overseas ranks ... Laughton, Valdas, and Lee in particular stand out in my mind. It would be nice to have someone of that category in the future come to ODU to play. The women used to regularly get some extremely top caliber talent going that route ... Nissen, Andrade, Bertheu, Marchiguana, Penechiro, etc.

I would try to utilize all possible recruiting tools (high school ties, overseas ties, and transfers) if I were a head coach, as long as using them did not break the regulations.

(02-07-2017 07:11 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 05:49 PM)mac Wrote:  "If I were a head coach I would also strongly consider trying to get an assistant that had some solid ties to some overseas recruiting areas. It wouldn't be the sole criteria by any means, but it would be a plus if a candidate had that when I was making the selection."

We have a assistant coach, Kelvin Jefferson, who was brought in for just that according to the media reports when he was hired. I know poster Coach has listed at least one person overseas that we have offered, maybe he can speak to this new assistant.(this is his first season)

Thanks for sharing that information with us Mac. I was not aware of Kelvin having that in his resume. Hope it will someday soon pay dividends for ODU.

Over the years the ODU men have gotten a few stellar performers from the overseas ranks ... Laughton, Valdas, and Lee in particular stand out in my mind. It would be nice to have someone of that category in the future come to ODU to play. The women used to regularly get some extremely top caliber talent going that route ... Nissen, Andrade, Bertheu, Marchiguana, Penechiro, etc.

I would try to utilize all possible recruiting tools (high school ties, overseas ties, and transfers) if I were a head coach, as long as using them did not break the regulations.

Valdas was from Lithuania but went to high school at Norfolk Collegiate.

Hope one of ya'll can fill it the blanks of my memory. I think I heard that it's harder now to get foreign players in (thanks, NCAA!!). Something about the fact that so many of them play on "almost pro" club teams.

(02-07-2017 07:15 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 07:11 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-07-2017 05:49 PM)mac Wrote:  "If I were a head coach I would also strongly consider trying to get an assistant that had some solid ties to some overseas recruiting areas. It wouldn't be the sole criteria by any means, but it would be a plus if a candidate had that when I was making the selection."

We have a assistant coach, Kelvin Jefferson, who was brought in for just that according to the media reports when he was hired. I know poster Coach has listed at least one person overseas that we have offered, maybe he can speak to this new assistant.(this is his first season)

Thanks for sharing that information with us Mac. I was not aware of Kelvin having that in his resume. Hope it will someday soon pay dividends for ODU.

Over the years the ODU men have gotten a few stellar performers from the overseas ranks ... Laughton, Valdas, and Lee in particular stand out in my mind. It would be nice to have someone of that category in the future come to ODU to play. The women used to regularly get some extremely top caliber talent going that route ... Nissen, Andrade, Bertheu, Marchiguana, Penechiro, etc.

I would try to utilize all possible recruiting tools (high school ties, overseas ties, and transfers) if I were a head coach, as long as using them did not break the regulations.

Valdas was from Lithuania but went to high school at Norfolk Collegiate.

Yeah, I know. I went to watch him play here in Virginia back when he was in high school. I also remember Blaine making the long journey over to Lithuania to meet his parents as part of his recruiting process. Valdas was a very strong willed player for ODU.

(02-07-2017 09:53 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  Hope one of ya'll can fill it the blanks of my memory. I think I heard that it's harder now to get foreign players in (thanks, NCAA!!). Something about the fact that so many of them play on "almost pro" club teams.

St. Mary's doesn't seem to have a problem.

Would never compare ODU vs. St. Mary's Razor. They are in one of the most beautiful areas in the world, getting to travel for away games up and down the coast. ODU, a regional school divided by a 6 lane highway surrounded by some sketchy areas and playing in one of the worse and worse conceived conferences ever.

Both of you folks are right though, it is harder now to get overseas players but St. Mary's does.

Yikes that won't help much with recruiting! Lol