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(02-04-2017 11:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:43 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:37 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:20 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 10:50 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Monarchblue- I consider myself very knowledgeable about the game of basketball. MAYBE I have been wrong with the talent on this team. I am having a hard time getting myself to come to grips with that because I see a bunch of young players who are spending their first years being go to players.

Caver-Clearly is a really good point guard. No disputing his talent. The main problem is that in games like this we ask him to be a big time scorer, which isn't his game. He should get his points in the flow of the game, but we've seen that sometimes he has to do more.

Talley- There's talent there. For some reason we don't post him enough. That is his game. WHY DON"T WE RUN SETS TO GET HIM THE BALL IN THE POST?????????????????????????

BJ-Obviously he has talent but he's still finding himself.

Branden- He is a monster when he wants to play.

Porter- I don't need to post anything about talent. That is clearly visible.

What am I missing?

I agree with you on Caver, I was wrong on him.

Talley is solid, but not a superstar. The problem is he is a tweener. He has a great handle and solid range on his jumper...For a 4, but as a three, I just don't think he is skilled enough to be a go to guy against teams that have good players. As far as potential, I look at him a little differently. I don't think you will see Bazemore like development to his game. One, Bazemore like development is EXTREMELY rare, and two, Talley is NOT young. Yes he is a sophomore, but he is a 22 or 23 year old sophomore. He has been out of highschool for 4 years. The biggest leaps happen in the first couple years.

BJ. I am just not sure he gets it. I THINK he is pretty talented, though I am not 100% sure how talented and I am not sure he realizes how hard he needs to work to realize his talent.

Brandan is kind of mystifying. The way he played against Louisville made him look like a star, but the reality is he can't seem to bring that energy regularly. Frankly he seems bored a lot of times. Beyond that, he is a garbage man, not a dump the ball into the post guy. I don't think he has the skills to really excel as a post player offensively. I do think he has the athleticism to excel as a 4 that destroys people on the glass and scores off of a lot of out backs, but I am not sure he has the want to.

Porter is very interesting to me. I think that kid has star potential. His combination of size, skill, and coordination leads one to believe he could be unstoppable, but JJ doesn't seem interested in exploiting that. There is also some concern about his ability to play heavy minutes at a high level of energy due to his diabetes. I am not sure how big of a deal that is for him, but i know it was an issue earlier in the season, and have noticed that he does seem to look really tired after he really exerts himself on a couple possessions.

When I question the talent on this team I do it in comparison to other ODU teams.

Talley vs Baze, VV, Finney, Henderson. I prefer all of those guys. I would rate him ahead of Henderson though.

Brandan vs Lee, Loughton, Frank, Carter, Cooper, Ross. I take all the other guys. Ross largely because of the energy and intangibles he brought.

Porter vs that group. May be better than Cooper, Ross, and Carter, remains to be seen.

Caver. I think I would put him ahead of anyone but Williamson.

BJ. This one is interesting because i don't love him, but BT did not have a great run of shooting guards. I would take Isaiah Hunter over him though.

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Isaiah hunter vs. bj stith isn't even close......

Also are you saying you'd take caver over any of our guards or any of our POINT guards because that makes a huge difference?

Point guards. It's not a great list and Caver is only a sophomore. He is pretty good now. I think he will be great if he learns how to surgically dissect a defense like Drew, and I think he potentially could get there.

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Ok yeah that's a more reasonable position. I'd take Drew myself because a. He could make FT's b. He was clutch as well c. He was a much better passer d. He was a true leader.

Caver may very well end up being clutch and a leader too but until he is, drew is ahead of him. Obviously we've had better point guards at odu over the years (twardzik anyone?) but of all of Blaines guys only drew was better than caver for me. Unless you want to count Gerald as a point forward or baze as a point SF lol

I agree. Drew was definitely better. I think Caver has a slight chance to be as good or better, but he will have to become a much better facilitator over the next two years to get there.

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(02-04-2017 11:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:33 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  While I am sharing my thoughts on all of this, I don't think in game coaching is nearly as important as most of the other passionate posters on this subject, so my perspective is a little different. For me program development and overall philosophy/system is far more important at the college level as long as you aren't an awful game coach like Gottfried. To me it is about recruiting, having a system that allows you to recruit and allows you to get players excited about playing. It's about psychology as well and creating a passionate fanbase. I think all of those things lead to a lot more success than calling great inbounds plays, or running a great set here and there.

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So you are just detailing another area of failure for the current administration.

To me, this is THE area of failure.

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The "original sin", so to speak.

(02-05-2017 12:02 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:33 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  While I am sharing my thoughts on all of this, I don't think in game coaching is nearly as important as most of the other passionate posters on this subject, so my perspective is a little different. For me program development and overall philosophy/system is far more important at the college level as long as you aren't an awful game coach like Gottfried. To me it is about recruiting, having a system that allows you to recruit and allows you to get players excited about playing. It's about psychology as well and creating a passionate fanbase. I think all of those things lead to a lot more success than calling great inbounds plays, or running a great set here and there.

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So you are just detailing another area of failure for the current administration.

To me, this is THE area of failure.

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The "original sin", so to speak.

Haha. I think that nails it.

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I definitely think Drew was better at this point. Probably not as good as Brandon Johnson yet either. I'd say as a sophomore, Caver is as good or better than Darius though.

(02-05-2017 12:35 AM)monarx Wrote:  I definitely think Drew was better at this point. Probably not as good as Brandon Johnson yet either. I'd say as a sophomore, Caver is as good or better than Darius though.

Forgot about Brandon Johnson. I thought he was going to be really good, then BT decided to bench him for Darius. Tough call though. I think as sophomores I might put he and Caver as about equal, but they are such different players that it is hard to compare.

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Brandon was a much better defender than caver. Caver is a better scorer and shooter.

Neither one shoots FT's very well.

Also vcu pulled out the luckiest win in the history of college basketball tonight. Un f'ing real.

Caver isnt as good as Drew yet but much better than BJ and
James.

I'm amazed that W&M, Marshall, Louisiana Tech, Charlotte, and Florida Atlantic can manage to find shooters, especially since they all have football teams. Somehow we managed to give 13 scholarships to players who can't shoot.

I love shooters, wish we had four of them! It would be somewhat OK to not have a lot of shooters if you have slashers and IF THEY COULD HIT FOUL SHOTS. Utterly ridiculous we are that bad at the foul line. As bad as we did any number of things last night, like passing, catching, dribbling , you simply can't shoot 50% or worse from the flipping foul line. Cost us the game against a team we should beat by ten at least. Terrible, disappointing ,depressing performance. The sloppy ball handling most of the game was almost as bad. Just disappointing to play like this so late in the season.

(02-04-2017 11:59 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:43 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:37 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:20 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I agree with you on Caver, I was wrong on him.

Talley is solid, but not a superstar. The problem is he is a tweener. He has a great handle and solid range on his jumper...For a 4, but as a three, I just don't think he is skilled enough to be a go to guy against teams that have good players. As far as potential, I look at him a little differently. I don't think you will see Bazemore like development to his game. One, Bazemore like development is EXTREMELY rare, and two, Talley is NOT young. Yes he is a sophomore, but he is a 22 or 23 year old sophomore. He has been out of highschool for 4 years. The biggest leaps happen in the first couple years.

BJ. I am just not sure he gets it. I THINK he is pretty talented, though I am not 100% sure how talented and I am not sure he realizes how hard he needs to work to realize his talent.

Brandan is kind of mystifying. The way he played against Louisville made him look like a star, but the reality is he can't seem to bring that energy regularly. Frankly he seems bored a lot of times. Beyond that, he is a garbage man, not a dump the ball into the post guy. I don't think he has the skills to really excel as a post player offensively. I do think he has the athleticism to excel as a 4 that destroys people on the glass and scores off of a lot of out backs, but I am not sure he has the want to.

Porter is very interesting to me. I think that kid has star potential. His combination of size, skill, and coordination leads one to believe he could be unstoppable, but JJ doesn't seem interested in exploiting that. There is also some concern about his ability to play heavy minutes at a high level of energy due to his diabetes. I am not sure how big of a deal that is for him, but i know it was an issue earlier in the season, and have noticed that he does seem to look really tired after he really exerts himself on a couple possessions.

When I question the talent on this team I do it in comparison to other ODU teams.

Talley vs Baze, VV, Finney, Henderson. I prefer all of those guys. I would rate him ahead of Henderson though.

Brandan vs Lee, Loughton, Frank, Carter, Cooper, Ross. I take all the other guys. Ross largely because of the energy and intangibles he brought.

Porter vs that group. May be better than Cooper, Ross, and Carter, remains to be seen.

Caver. I think I would put him ahead of anyone but Williamson.

BJ. This one is interesting because i don't love him, but BT did not have a great run of shooting guards. I would take Isaiah Hunter over him though.

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Isaiah hunter vs. bj stith isn't even close......

Also are you saying you'd take caver over any of our guards or any of our POINT guards because that makes a huge difference?

Point guards. It's not a great list and Caver is only a sophomore. He is pretty good now. I think he will be great if he learns how to surgically dissect a defense like Drew, and I think he potentially could get there.

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Ok yeah that's a more reasonable position. I'd take Drew myself because a. He could make FT's b. He was clutch as well c. He was a much better passer d. He was a true leader.

Caver may very well end up being clutch and a leader too but until he is, drew is ahead of him. Obviously we've had better point guards at odu over the years (twardzik anyone?) but of all of Blaines guys only drew was better than caver for me. Unless you want to count Gerald as a point forward or baze as a point SF lol

I agree. Drew was definitely better. I think Caver has a slight chance to be as good or better, but he will have to become a much better facilitator over the next two years to get there.

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He's better than Brandon Johnson and better than Darius James. For him to be the facilitator we want him to be, people have to put the ball in the basket. I counted 4 times last night where he made an incredible pass to the block and our big man didn't finish, or he got blocked. At least three other occasions where he found open shooters. Drew Williamson is probably better, but you guys are very tough on the players this year, so remember that when you judge where Caver stands.

Just a general question, there were a few times last night and throughout various games where Brandan was wide open to take a shot beyond the arc but didn't. Is he just not good at 3s, not supposed to take that type of shot in his position, or a mixture of both?

Brandan? He cant shoot.

(02-04-2017 11:59 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:43 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:37 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-04-2017 11:20 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I agree with you on Caver, I was wrong on him.

Talley is solid, but not a superstar. The problem is he is a tweener. He has a great handle and solid range on his jumper...For a 4, but as a three, I just don't think he is skilled enough to be a go to guy against teams that have good players. As far as potential, I look at him a little differently. I don't think you will see Bazemore like development to his game. One, Bazemore like development is EXTREMELY rare, and two, Talley is NOT young. Yes he is a sophomore, but he is a 22 or 23 year old sophomore. He has been out of highschool for 4 years. The biggest leaps happen in the first couple years.

BJ. I am just not sure he gets it. I THINK he is pretty talented, though I am not 100% sure how talented and I am not sure he realizes how hard he needs to work to realize his talent.

Brandan is kind of mystifying. The way he played against Louisville made him look like a star, but the reality is he can't seem to bring that energy regularly. Frankly he seems bored a lot of times. Beyond that, he is a garbage man, not a dump the ball into the post guy. I don't think he has the skills to really excel as a post player offensively. I do think he has the athleticism to excel as a 4 that destroys people on the glass and scores off of a lot of out backs, but I am not sure he has the want to.

Porter is very interesting to me. I think that kid has star potential. His combination of size, skill, and coordination leads one to believe he could be unstoppable, but JJ doesn't seem interested in exploiting that. There is also some concern about his ability to play heavy minutes at a high level of energy due to his diabetes. I am not sure how big of a deal that is for him, but i know it was an issue earlier in the season, and have noticed that he does seem to look really tired after he really exerts himself on a couple possessions.

When I question the talent on this team I do it in comparison to other ODU teams.

Talley vs Baze, VV, Finney, Henderson. I prefer all of those guys. I would rate him ahead of Henderson though.

Brandan vs Lee, Loughton, Frank, Carter, Cooper, Ross. I take all the other guys. Ross largely because of the energy and intangibles he brought.

Porter vs that group. May be better than Cooper, Ross, and Carter, remains to be seen.

Caver. I think I would put him ahead of anyone but Williamson.

BJ. This one is interesting because i don't love him, but BT did not have a great run of shooting guards. I would take Isaiah Hunter over him though.

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Isaiah hunter vs. bj stith isn't even close......

Also are you saying you'd take caver over any of our guards or any of our POINT guards because that makes a huge difference?

Point guards. It's not a great list and Caver is only a sophomore. He is pretty good now. I think he will be great if he learns how to surgically dissect a defense like Drew, and I think he potentially could get there.

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Ok yeah that's a more reasonable position. I'd take Drew myself because a. He could make FT's b. He was clutch as well c. He was a much better passer d. He was a true leader.

Caver may very well end up being clutch and a leader too but until he is, drew is ahead of him. Obviously we've had better point guards at odu over the years (twardzik anyone?) but of all of Blaines guys only drew was better than caver for me. Unless you want to count Gerald as a point forward or baze as a point SF lol

I agree. Drew was definitely better. I think Caver has a slight chance to be as good or better, but he will have to become a much better facilitator over the next two years to get there.

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Just wanted to say Talley's handle is not solid. Last nights game he lost control of his dribble out of bounds with no one around him and then he also was the one who had the key final turnover when he tried to spin move against three defenders with the ball far away from his body.

Again I've been a season ticket holder for ODU for the last 3 yrs and support just as strongly as JMU. So calm down there buddy, I just have a different perspective than you. No need to go all nuclear.

(02-04-2017 11:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  While I am sharing my thoughts on all of this, I don't think in game coaching is nearly as important as most of the other passionate posters on this subject, so my perspective is a little different. For me program development and overall philosophy/system is far more important at the college level as long as you aren't an awful game coach like Gottfried. To me it is about recruiting, having a system that allows you to recruit and allows you to get players excited about playing. It's about psychology as well and creating a passionate fanbase. I think all of those things lead to a lot more success than calling great inbounds plays, or running a great set here and there.

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Are you saying a coach is only as good as the players he recruits?

No.

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I would imagine that this is going to be a terrible week of practice for the players. We will see how they respond. Either season over or the punch in the mouth they needed.

I sat 4 rows behind the ODU bench last night and let me tell you something. There is no fun being had by anyone. JJ was berating each and every player, even when we were up 12 or 14. I know some coaches are perfectionists but I have to believe these players are terrified to make any sort of mistake. The penalty is getting pulled or screamed at. I think this is one of many reasons we look so stiff and mechanical at times. My wife commented there is no way she would want her son to play for him.

(02-05-2017 10:57 AM)Quagmire Wrote:  I sat 4 rows behind the ODU bench last night and let me tell you something. There is no fun being had by anyone. JJ was berating each and every player, even when we were up 12 or 14. I know some coaches are perfectionists but I have to believe these players are terrified to make any sort of mistake. The penalty is getting pulled or screamed at. I think this is one of many reasons we look so stiff and mechanical at times. My wife commented there is no way she would want her son to play for him.

Yes, yes, yes.
Mike Krzyzewski is one of the tougher bench coaches around, and JJ makes him look tame at times. Jones might do well to take a page from the book of Bobby Wilder on how to deal with the kids.

On the bright side, re the BT-JJ comparison; Blaine lost a heartbreaker a few years ago to the eventual NCAAT #2 Butler.
Last night we also lost a heartbreaker to a team that also may be an eventual #2........... #2 worst team in the NCAA

Some players respond to coaches like that; softer kids do not. Im not sure what the personalities of the kids are on the team. I always had really tough coaches (a certain OdU hall of famer comes to mind). Jones is tame compared to him.

If it is a problem with our kids, we need to either recruit kids with a backbone or change coaches. From the outside, it doesnt seem to me that it bothers the kids. They were sloppy as heck last night for some reason (even up 15), something needed to be done to get them to focus. Whatever we did, didnt work.

(02-05-2017 11:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(02-05-2017 10:57 AM)Quagmire Wrote:  I sat 4 rows behind the ODU bench last night and let me tell you something. There is no fun being had by anyone. JJ was berating each and every player, even when we were up 12 or 14. I know some coaches are perfectionists but I have to believe these players are terrified to make any sort of mistake. The penalty is getting pulled or screamed at. I think this is one of many reasons we look so stiff and mechanical at times. My wife commented there is no way she would want her son to play for him.

Yes, yes, yes.
Mike Krzyzewski is one of the tougher bench coaches around, and JJ makes him look tame at times. Jones might do well to take a page from the book of Bobby Wilder on how to deal with the kids.

On the bright side, re the BT-JJ comparison; Blaine lost a heartbreaker a few years ago to the eventual NCAAT #2 Butler.
Last night we also lost a heartbreaker to a team that also may be an eventual #2........... #2 worst team in the NCAA

FAU is on a 3 game winning streak. We should have beat them but they are far from a bottom 2 team.

Last night wasnt acceptable, but lets bot forget that all coaches, including BT, have some terrible losses.