WMTribe90
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RE: C-USA
(12-30-2016 04:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: (12-30-2016 04:15 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote: (12-30-2016 02:07 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote: (12-30-2016 01:10 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote: The problem is that we are a major contributor to the SUCK. If CUSA is that bad, we should be able to win it.
If we don't get to the NCAA's after next season, it's time to look in a different direction.
Yup. The CAA w/o VCU and GMU is not any more attractive anyway.
Really!? At the end of OOC play, the CAA ranks #11 and CUSA ranks #25 in conference RPI. CAA has two mid-major top 25 squads (#3 and #22) and three others receiving votes. Conference USA has no teams ranked in top 25 or even receiving votes! No difference there? The CAA has a few teams in the at-large mix. Conference USA?
No difference between a conference where your closest road game is nearly 500 miles away in another state versus a conference with two in-state conference foes and five others within driving distance (<275 miles)? How many away conference basketball games have you attended since joining CUSA? How many did you attend when ODU was in the CAA?
Its obvious the move to CUSA was a football move. It accomplished the goal of getting ODU football FBS status. Let's not pretend it was a lateral basketball move and that it hasn't diminished your basketball program.
The CAA conference took a step back after GMU, ODU and VCU left. No doubt. But, a lot has changed since those early years following the defections. WM has strung together 3 consecutive 20 win seasons, UNCW has returned to prominence not enjoyed since the Blizzard era, Towson has found considerable success after being a doormat program, NU has the best coach in the league and is consistently strong. New additions Elon and Charleston are coming on strong. Charleston is #22 in the mid-major top 25 and Elon is receiving votes. Hofstra lost in the conference finals last year and are also well-coached. UD appears on the upswing after sacking their coach. Only JMU is struggling among current members. Meanwhile, GMU struggles in the A10 and would be a bottom-half CAA school this year. VCU's move has been successful and I can't argue against their move to the A10. ODU basketball program has been downgraded (talent level and conference). If you don't agree, try explaining losses to the former CAA doormat five time in six tries. Ask yourself if the CAA offered ODU basketball-only membership tomorrow if you'd take it?
In order:
* CUSA is brought down by its truly bad programs (UTSA, UTEP, Southern Miss, FIU, all around or worse than 300 in the RPIs). Most years, the top half of CUSA would be far better than the top half of the CAA (this year, with ODU forgetting how to shoot and UAB losing its point guard to injury, isn't one of those years).
* CUSA doesn't get votes in the mid-major top 25 for the same reason the ACC and Big 12 don't -- because they don't qualify for the poll.
Quote:NOTE: The Mid-Major Poll is made up of teams from the following conferences: America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, Horizon, Independents, Ivy, Metro Atlantic, Mid-American, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern, Summit, Sun Belt, West Coast, Western Athletic.
Maybe they'll have to revisit that at some point, but for now that's how it is.
* Nobody denies that CUSA is more spread out than the CAA or that football was the driving force behind the move. But let's not act like this is the CAA of, say, 2000. W&M and JMU would be the only in-conference games that consistently would generate interest for ODU fans (UNCW hinges on its success; when they're bad, nobody cares). Elon's not doing it. Charleston, absent a time machine, isn't doing it. Ditto Towson, ditto Drexel, ditto Hofstra, ditto Northeastern.
* Of all those "success stories" you're bragging about in the CAA, UNCW is the only truly remarkable one. It's still a one bid league with perhaps an NIT bid mixed in there. You still only have one top-100 team. Everyone else's "success" is relative to say the least.
* George Mason is 10-3 with road/neutral wins against Penn State, Northern Iowa and Kent State. That's not the stuff of NCAA at-large dreams but it's absolutely enough to finish in the top half of the CAA.
* For starters, some of those losses to W&M came while ODU was in the CAA, so not sure how CUSA takes the blame for that. And long term, I will absolutely take a core of Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Louisiana Tech, UAB, Rice, Marshall and Charlotte (with UTEP and Southern Miss having reserved spots based on history when they decide to get their **** together) over the core of the CAA, which is UNCW (until Keatts gets a better job) and ... Towson? Charleston? Northeastern? W&M?
* So no, I (and most rational people) would NOT take a non-football return to the CAA. For CUSA's flaws (footprint, current on-court struggles), I still see way more of a future with them than with the CAA. Bring back VCU, Mason, Richmond, Georgia State and, oh what the heck, ECU and we'll talk.
In order:
Writing off half your conference as "really bad" doesn't really help your argument. I would disagree that this year and moving forward the "top half" of CUSA is better than the "top half" of CAA.
Good to know on the mid-major poll. Have to admit I thought it odd no CUSA teams didn't at least garner votes. Makes no sense whatsoever the CUSA is not considered a mid-major conference.
When you say WM and JMU are the only teams that would move fan interest at ODU, is that not two more than currently move the needle from CUSA. Who is you big CUSA rival? I know you quickly ceded what a geographical nightmare CUSA is for ODU and moved on, but this is no small point IMO. Having two in-state rivals and a handful of opponents that are easy bus games is a big deal. Rivals are born of two things primarily, proximity and/or competitiveness. All the CAA schools you dismissed as not moving the needle are as good or better than most (if not all) your CUSA brethren on both counts.
You can opine about which "core" you prefer, but the conference RPIs speak for themselves. At least for this year, and I believe most years going forward, CAA is a better basketball conference.
GMU lost to Towson and managed to beat the absolute worse team in the CAA by 3 points in OT. They're middle of the pack CAA.
I'll take you at your word that you'd decline CAA basketball-only membership. That's fine, but your mindset is stuck on the hallowed-out league ODU left and not the rebuilt league that currently sits #11 in RPI. Last season the CAA finished #9 to CUSA #21. I see two leagues moving in opposite directions. Why wouldn't you want (theoretically) the more competitive league that offers in-state rivals, a logical footprint, reduced costs, and a basketball first mentality.
Good luck to ODU the rest of the way.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2016 05:33 PM by WMTribe90.)
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