(12-12-2016 08:30 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  So about that extension....

Harbaugh to LA I don't think so

LA is not the job that it looks like. Stadium is horrible for theee more years and that town don't give two S#!ts about the NFL

I wonder if the extension talk was leaked to see how team reacted. I guess we all saw on Sunday

More than likely Harbaugh's agent leaked the story to get him another bump. Whether Harbuagh wants one is irrelevant. The agents get a %.

Brian Kelly would take the job

Harbaugh won't be back to the NFL until he gets more control on his personnel like Belichick etc. Dealing with the SF front office and ownership probably soured his NFL experience so he won't do that again.

(12-12-2016 09:25 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Brian Kelly would take the job

I mean the Rams would be lucky to have him and we're willing to sacrifice for the sake of the Rams.

(12-12-2016 03:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-12-2016 02:49 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Harbaugh will eventually be back in the NFL - his competitive drive and personality make it hard for him not to want to come back - but it won't be this offseason, and I'd be surprised if it was after next year too. He will put in at least four seasons at Michigan before heading back to the NFL - but I think there will be better opportunities for him in the NFL than LA.

You're talking about an NFL franchise in Los Angeles. There are 2 ideal HC jobs in the NFL: 1) A storied franchise and 2) A franchise in a major city. It doesn't get a whole lot better than the Rams TBH. If he waits 2 years like you think he may, there is no guarantee that his job prospects look any better. Cleveland? Or Tampa Bay? More than likely SanFran will open up after people realize that Chip Kelly is a college level coach that wasn't worthy to wash Andy Reid's underwear... But SanFran is never happening for him.

If he wants to go back to the NFL, this is a great fit for him to jump to. It's a big city franchise that needs a turnaround with an owner with deep pockets. It's got Harbaugh written all over it. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't take it (if offered).

Eh, the Rams job isn't a good job at all. It might become a good job to take advantage of the major market that it's located in once the new stadium is built, but that's still a few years away and the team is near rock bottom competitively. The Rams job being a good one in the NFL context because of its large market is sort of like saying that Rutgers is a good college football job because of its large market - neither are really true.

Now, I wouldn't put it past Harbaugh to take an NFL job, but it's got to be (a) even more high profile compared to being the head coach at Michigan and (b) a quicker turnaround situation as opposed to a complete rebuilding process.

Ironically, I think that opportunity may end up being in the *smallest* market in the NFL: the Green Bay Packers. Mike McCarthy could be on the chopping block either this year or next year if only because he's becoming long in the tooth there with perceived underperformance (similar to Andy Reid near the end of his Eagles tenure). Taking over a true marquee historic franchise that would still have Aaron Rodgers in place at starting QB seems more like the type of opportunity that Harbaugh would consider.

I don't buy that any NFL job is inherently better than any college job when you're comparing it to being the head coach at Michigan and the fact that Harbaugh is getting an NFL-level salary there. That being said, the best NFL target for him would be a high profile underachieving team that has enough talent where he could conceivably turn them around and take them to the Super Bowl almost immediately. The Packers certainly seem to fit that bill, although they might stick with McCarthy for another year even if they don't make the playoffs this season.

They want Pete Carroll. How would USC feel about that

(12-13-2016 10:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-12-2016 03:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-12-2016 02:49 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Harbaugh will eventually be back in the NFL - his competitive drive and personality make it hard for him not to want to come back - but it won't be this offseason, and I'd be surprised if it was after next year too. He will put in at least four seasons at Michigan before heading back to the NFL - but I think there will be better opportunities for him in the NFL than LA.

You're talking about an NFL franchise in Los Angeles. There are 2 ideal HC jobs in the NFL: 1) A storied franchise and 2) A franchise in a major city. It doesn't get a whole lot better than the Rams TBH. If he waits 2 years like you think he may, there is no guarantee that his job prospects look any better. Cleveland? Or Tampa Bay? More than likely SanFran will open up after people realize that Chip Kelly is a college level coach that wasn't worthy to wash Andy Reid's underwear... But SanFran is never happening for him.

If he wants to go back to the NFL, this is a great fit for him to jump to. It's a big city franchise that needs a turnaround with an owner with deep pockets. It's got Harbaugh written all over it. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't take it (if offered).

Eh, the Rams job isn't a good job at all. It might become a good job to take advantage of the major market that it's located in once the new stadium is built, but that's still a few years away and the team is near rock bottom competitively. The Rams job being a good one in the NFL context because of its large market is sort of like saying that Rutgers is a good college football job because of its large market - neither are really true.

Now, I wouldn't put it past Harbaugh to take an NFL job, but it's got to be (a) even more high profile compared to being the head coach at Michigan and (b) a quicker turnaround situation as opposed to a complete rebuilding process.

Ironically, I think that opportunity may end up being in the *smallest* market in the NFL: the Green Bay Packers. Mike McCarthy could be on the chopping block either this year or next year if only because he's becoming long in the tooth there with perceived underperformance (similar to Andy Reid near the end of his Eagles tenure). Taking over a true marquee historic franchise that would still have Aaron Rodgers in place at starting QB seems more like the type of opportunity that Harbaugh would consider.

I don't buy that any NFL job is inherently better than any college job when you're comparing it to being the head coach at Michigan and the fact that Harbaugh is getting an NFL-level salary there. That being said, the best NFL target for him would be a high profile underachieving team that has enough talent where he could conceivably turn them around and take them to the Super Bowl almost immediately. The Packers certainly seem to fit that bill, although they might stick with McCarthy for another year even if they don't make the playoffs this season.

1) The Rams job is nothing like coaching ball at Rutgers. CFB is like MLB in structure with a hierarchy that is very hard to break if your university is on the lower rungs. That is very different than the Rams in the NFL where the system is DESIGNED to give the lowest performing teams additional help to become more competitive. It's silly to compare the two.

2) It's surely a matter of opinion, but I don't buy that the mystique of any CFB program trumps an NFL franchise. If you want to be the best coach you can be, you go to the NFL. If you do not desire to compete at the highest levels and/or you prefer to become a king ruling over a kingdom then CFB is for you. Also, if you know your limitations and understand that there are coaches better than you, then CFB is your place. It's silly to think that an amateur coaching gig is more prestigious than a professional football team for anyone who wishes to compete at the highest levels. Sorry, but coaching OSU, Michigan or Alabama is not coaching at the highest levels. There is a bigger world out there.

3) If you read my earlier post, there is no irony to seek out. I stated either a large market team or a storied franchise. Green Bay is most definitely a storied franchise. In fact, I put storied franchise ahead of major markets. Seems everyone must have Rutgers on the brain...

4) Think what you want, but it's quite simple. If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best. That's the NFL. If you want to "build a legacy" in an amateur sport, then you do what Spurrier, Saban, Holtz and Petrino (among others) did and was recognize that you have limited upside potential that will serve you well in the CFB world. Harbaugh has the ego big enough to shoot for the stars. Coaching at Michigan is not shooting for the stars.

(12-13-2016 01:10 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  They want Pete Carroll. How would USC feel about that

Not what you were talking about, but exhibit A for a guy that left the "mystique" of USC to coach in the NFL.

(12-13-2016 01:22 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 01:10 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  They want Pete Carroll. How would USC feel about that

Not what you were talking about, but exhibit A for a guy that left the "mystique" of USC to coach in the NFL.

To be sure, Carroll also left behind a bunch of NCAA sanctions just in time.

(12-13-2016 01:22 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 01:10 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  They want Pete Carroll. How would USC feel about that

Not what you were talking about, but exhibit A for a guy that left the "mystique" of USC to coach in the NFL.

Pete Carroll is also exhibit A for why college may be a better fit. He was fired after just three years in New England, despite the fact the Patriots were .500 or better all three years with two playoff appearances. Carroll spent a decade at USC so he must have liked the mystique. He also liked the control over player personnel and the only reason he returned to the NFL was because Seattle was willing to give him some of that control

Harbaugh was similarly given a raw deal. Cut by the 49ers after a Super Bowl and what, three NFC championship appearances? He might have been better off staying at Stanford.

Harbaugh might not retire at Michigan, but I don't think he leaves until he wins a national championship.

(12-13-2016 01:51 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 01:22 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 01:10 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  They want Pete Carroll. How would USC feel about that

Not what you were talking about, but exhibit A for a guy that left the "mystique" of USC to coach in the NFL.

Pete Carroll is also exhibit A for why college may be a better fit. He was fired after just three years in New England, despite the fact the Patriots were .500 or better all three years with two playoff appearances. Carroll spent a decade at USC so he must have liked the mystique. He also liked the control over player personnel and the only reason he returned to the NFL was because Seattle was willing to give him some of that control

Harbaugh was similarly given a raw deal. Cut by the 49ers after a Super Bowl and what, three NFC championship appearances? He might have been better off staying at Stanford.

Harbaugh might not retire at Michigan, but I don't think he leaves until he wins a national championship.

The best NFL organizations will have healthy collaboration between the GM/Scouting group and the coaching staffs. The Steelers and New England (although Belichick probably has final say) come to mind. Carroll had to build a resume at USC after he flamed out at New England. Just like sending a player to the minors for development.

(12-13-2016 01:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  1) The Rams job is nothing like coaching ball at Rutgers. CFB is like MLB in structure with a hierarchy that is very hard to break if your university is on the lower rungs. That is very different than the Rams in the NFL where the system is DESIGNED to give the lowest performing teams additional help to become more competitive. It's silly to compare the two.

2) It's surely a matter of opinion, but I don't buy that the mystique of any CFB program trumps an NFL franchise. If you want to be the best coach you can be, you go to the NFL. If you do not desire to compete at the highest levels and/or you prefer to become a king ruling over a kingdom then CFB is for you. Also, if you know your limitations and understand that there are coaches better than you, then CFB is your place. It's silly to think that an amateur coaching gig is more prestigious than a professional football team for anyone who wishes to compete at the highest levels. Sorry, but coaching OSU, Michigan or Alabama is not coaching at the highest levels. There is a bigger world out there.

3) If you read my earlier post, there is no irony to seek out. I stated either a large market team or a storied franchise. Green Bay is most definitely a storied franchise. In fact, I put storied franchise ahead of major markets. Seems everyone must have Rutgers on the brain...

4) Think what you want, but it's quite simple. If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best. That's the NFL. If you want to "build a legacy" in an amateur sport, then you do what Spurrier, Saban, Holtz and Petrino (among others) did and was recognize that you have limited upside potential that will serve you well in the CFB world. Harbaugh has the ego big enough to shoot for the stars. Coaching at Michigan is not shooting for the stars.

Michigan is already on top. They benefit from the lack of competition for national titles. So I don't see any downside from Harbaugh's perspective. If Harbaugh's goal is to win championships, he can do that in the NFL or in college. The decision is more of a lifestyle decision - which type of players he likes coaching better.


But if Harbaugh's goal is to be recognized as the best....

Ask yourself - who is the greatest football coach of all time? Most of the names that pop to the top of your head are college coaches - like Bear Bryant, Knute Rockne, Tom Osborne. Sure, Don Shula ang George Halas were great, but do more people remember them or Woody and Bo?

That should tell you a lot about which one gets more recognition.

Harbaugh has a well-deserved rep for not getting along with owners, staff or players. You can get by with that in college (if you are wining) but not in the NFL.

At Michigan, Harbaugh is a big name at a big name school. In the NFL he would be in the bottom 25% in both categories. His ego won't stand for that - no matter how much they pay him.

(12-13-2016 02:55 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Harbaugh has a well-deserved rep for not getting along with owners, staff or players. You can get by with that in college (if you are wining) but not in the NFL.

At Michigan, Harbaugh is a big name at a big name school. In the NFL he would be in the bottom 25% in both categories. His ego won't stand for that - no matter how much they pay him.

Yup.

I mean, what does it say that he could be so successful in San Fran, and he's still kind of marched out of there? Even success won't save you at the pros if you can't work with people as colleagues and not drop the "chain of command" nonsense that runs unchecked in higher education.

(12-13-2016 02:55 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Harbaugh has a well-deserved rep for not getting along with owners, staff or players. You can get by with that in college (if you are wining) but not in the NFL.

At Michigan, Harbaugh is a big name at a big name school. In the NFL he would be in the bottom 25% in both categories. His ego won't stand for that - no matter how much they pay him.

Bottom 25%? He'd be the biggest name in the NFL right after Belichick and maybe Carroll.

(12-13-2016 02:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 01:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  1) The Rams job is nothing like coaching ball at Rutgers. CFB is like MLB in structure with a hierarchy that is very hard to break if your university is on the lower rungs. That is very different than the Rams in the NFL where the system is DESIGNED to give the lowest performing teams additional help to become more competitive. It's silly to compare the two.

2) It's surely a matter of opinion, but I don't buy that the mystique of any CFB program trumps an NFL franchise. If you want to be the best coach you can be, you go to the NFL. If you do not desire to compete at the highest levels and/or you prefer to become a king ruling over a kingdom then CFB is for you. Also, if you know your limitations and understand that there are coaches better than you, then CFB is your place. It's silly to think that an amateur coaching gig is more prestigious than a professional football team for anyone who wishes to compete at the highest levels. Sorry, but coaching OSU, Michigan or Alabama is not coaching at the highest levels. There is a bigger world out there.

3) If you read my earlier post, there is no irony to seek out. I stated either a large market team or a storied franchise. Green Bay is most definitely a storied franchise. In fact, I put storied franchise ahead of major markets. Seems everyone must have Rutgers on the brain...

4) Think what you want, but it's quite simple. If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best. That's the NFL. If you want to "build a legacy" in an amateur sport, then you do what Spurrier, Saban, Holtz and Petrino (among others) did and was recognize that you have limited upside potential that will serve you well in the CFB world. Harbaugh has the ego big enough to shoot for the stars. Coaching at Michigan is not shooting for the stars.

Michigan is already on top. They benefit from the lack of competition for national titles. So I don't see any downside from Harbaugh's perspective. If Harbaugh's goal is to win championships, he can do that in the NFL or in college. The decision is more of a lifestyle decision - which type of players he likes coaching better.


But if Harbaugh's goal is to be recognized as the best....

Ask yourself - who is the greatest football coach of all time? Most of the names that pop to the top of your head are college coaches - like Bear Bryant, Knute Rockne, Tom Osborne. Sure, Don Shula ang George Halas were great, but do more people remember them or Woody and Bo?

That should tell you a lot about which one gets more recognition.

Vince Lombardi > Woody & Bo

(12-13-2016 03:05 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 02:55 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Harbaugh has a well-deserved rep for not getting along with owners, staff or players. You can get by with that in college (if you are wining) but not in the NFL.

At Michigan, Harbaugh is a big name at a big name school. In the NFL he would be in the bottom 25% in both categories. His ego won't stand for that - no matter how much they pay him.

Bottom 25%? He'd be the biggest name in the NFL right after Belichick and maybe Carroll.

Totally agree.

Jim Harbaugh might be a jacka*s, but he has proven bona fides as a coach both in the pros and college. Look at what a dumpster fire that the 49ers have turned into since he left (and the core of that team went to the freaking Super Bowl under Harbaugh). He turned Stanford (the most difficult school in America to get into academically next to Harvard) into a top 5 team and turned Michigan around in a single season.

Chip Kelly is an example of a guy that needs to be in the college game. His entire M.O. is his "system", and "system coaches" (like Steve Spurrier before him) simply have a bad track record in the NFL because coaching in the pros is more about creating a system to fit your talent as opposed to getting talent to fit your system (which is how most college coaches operate).

I wouldn't say that at all about Jim Harbaugh. He might be a mercenary a la Bill Parcells that will revitalize a team and then quickly wear out his welcome, but the point is that Harbaugh has the revitalization part down pat at either the pro or college levels. Harbaugh might have a system, but he isn't completely *dependent* upon his system in the way that a guy like Chip Kelly is, so he's able to adjust to the talent that's provided to him.

(12-13-2016 02:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  But if Harbaugh's goal is to be recognized as the best....

Ask yourself - who is the greatest football coach of all time? Most of the names that pop to the top of your head are college coaches - like Bear Bryant, Knute Rockne, Tom Osborne. Sure, Don Shula ang George Halas were great, but do more people remember them or Woody and Bo?

That should tell you a lot about which one gets more recognition.

I think most would answer that question with "Vince Lombardi", and he did it all in the NFL.

Bottom line, like most top coaches recognize, is that the NFL is the pinnacle of football. Winning at the college level, like a Bowden or Paterno, just isn't equal to doing it in the NFL.

That said, as a lifelong Rams fan I would LOVE to have Harbaugh join the Rams, I think he's had enough of the NFL, shot his wad there, so to speak, and is happy at Michigan.

(12-13-2016 02:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-13-2016 01:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  1) The Rams job is nothing like coaching ball at Rutgers. CFB is like MLB in structure with a hierarchy that is very hard to break if your university is on the lower rungs. That is very different than the Rams in the NFL where the system is DESIGNED to give the lowest performing teams additional help to become more competitive. It's silly to compare the two.

2) It's surely a matter of opinion, but I don't buy that the mystique of any CFB program trumps an NFL franchise. If you want to be the best coach you can be, you go to the NFL. If you do not desire to compete at the highest levels and/or you prefer to become a king ruling over a kingdom then CFB is for you. Also, if you know your limitations and understand that there are coaches better than you, then CFB is your place. It's silly to think that an amateur coaching gig is more prestigious than a professional football team for anyone who wishes to compete at the highest levels. Sorry, but coaching OSU, Michigan or Alabama is not coaching at the highest levels. There is a bigger world out there.

3) If you read my earlier post, there is no irony to seek out. I stated either a large market team or a storied franchise. Green Bay is most definitely a storied franchise. In fact, I put storied franchise ahead of major markets. Seems everyone must have Rutgers on the brain...

4) Think what you want, but it's quite simple. If you want to be the best, you have to compete with the best. That's the NFL. If you want to "build a legacy" in an amateur sport, then you do what Spurrier, Saban, Holtz and Petrino (among others) did and was recognize that you have limited upside potential that will serve you well in the CFB world. Harbaugh has the ego big enough to shoot for the stars. Coaching at Michigan is not shooting for the stars.

Michigan is already on top. They benefit from the lack of competition for national titles. So I don't see any downside from Harbaugh's perspective. If Harbaugh's goal is to win championships, he can do that in the NFL or in college. The decision is more of a lifestyle decision - which type of players he likes coaching better.


But if Harbaugh's goal is to be recognized as the best....

Ask yourself - who is the greatest football coach of all time? Most of the names that pop to the top of your head are college coaches - like Bear Bryant, Knute Rockne, Tom Osborne. Sure, Don Shula ang George Halas were great, but do more people remember them or Woody and Bo?

That should tell you a lot about which one gets more recognition.

Hmmm.... NFL great coaches? Bill Belichick, Bill Parcells, Chuck Noll, Paul Brown, and you already have mentioned Vince Lombardi, Don Shula and George Halas.

All of these guys are >> than Bo, Woody, Bear Bryant Rockne, Paterno and even the contemporaries like Saban, Meyer and Holtz. In fact, one of the guys who COULD have been one of the college greats looks like a piker at the 49'ers organization... Saban was mediocre as a Dolphins coach. Holtz and Spurrier didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground when they tried stints in the NFL.

(12-12-2016 01:38 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jim-ha...d=32270303

No he isn't.