(11-28-2016 04:00 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Big 12 went 19-11 OOC this season.

Good wins (which may stretch the definition): BYU, Pitt

Good losses: Stanford, Ohio State, Houston, Arkansas (possible stretch), Iowa

Bad losses: Ohio, Northern Iowa, Arizona State, Cal, Central Michigan


So there you have it, the Big 12 had 2 good wins OOC, which were good but not great. They have to have teams brag more about losing to good teams as opposed to their good wins. Houston alone had as many good wins (and of better quality) as the entire Big 12 this season. And...what's that? You want me to say it again? Navy beat Houston, OU was smashed by them. Way more bad losses than good wins.

I don't care what thee numbers say, OU has nothing to lay its hat on except its reputation.

I think you just proved everybody's point about your opinion. And there's no need to discuss with you. Facts are irrelevant to you.

There you go bragging about OU's losses. Who have they beaten? West Virginia? Their best win is over an 8-win BYU. Even if you put high stock in that, West Virginia isn't any better than Houston, even with one more win.

I laid it out earlier, the Big 12 did nothing OOC:

Quote:The Big 12 went 19-11 OOC this season.

Good wins (which may stretch the definition): BYU, Pitt

Good losses: Stanford, Ohio State, Houston, Arkansas (possible stretch), Iowa

Bad losses: Ohio, Northern Iowa, Arizona State, Cal, Central Michigan


So there you have it, the Big 12 had 2 good wins OOC, which were good but not great. They have to have teams brag more about losing to good teams as opposed to their good wins. Houston alone had as many good wins (and of better quality) as the entire Big 12 this season. And...what's that? You want me to say it again? Navy beat Houston, OU was smashed by them. Way more bad losses than good wins.

I don't care what thee numbers say, OU has nothing to lay its hat on except its reputation.

OU has to hang their hat on the fact they lost to no God awful teams and dominated a Big 12 with only 2 other legit teams. The AAC West plus games against Temple and South Florida have provided more competition than OU has had to face this season.

(11-28-2016 05:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  I think you just proved everybody's point about your opinion. And there's no need to discuss with you. Facts are irrelevant to you.

So what, people can fudge the numbers any way they want? Looking side by side, there's no logical reason to suggest OU has faced a significantly tougher schedule than Navy, certainly not a 17-70 difference. The difference maker HAS to be Ohio State, which skews everything because other than Ohio State, so far the only top 25 caliber teams OU has faced is West Virginia and Houston. Navy has faced South Florida, Houston, Tulsa and will take on Temple. Regardless of what the numbers say, OU hasn't faced much more this year than Navy other than 1 really, really tough game. OU just has the benefit of having a really, really good loss and not an average loss like Navy.

And FTR, though they may have some trouble with the option, I think OU is better than Navy but that has to be earned, not assumed.

(11-28-2016 05:28 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(11-28-2016 05:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  I think you just proved everybody's point about your opinion. And there's no need to discuss with you. Facts are irrelevant to you.

So what, people can fudge the numbers any way they want? Looking side by side, there's no logical reason to suggest OU has faced a significantly tougher schedule than Navy, certainly not a 17-70 difference. The difference maker HAS to be Ohio State, which skews everything because other than Ohio State, so far the only top 25 caliber teams OU has faced is West Virginia and Houston. Navy has faced South Florida, Houston, Tulsa and will take on Temple. Regardless of what the numbers say, OU hasn't faced much more this year than Navy other than 1 really, really tough game. OU just has the benefit of having a really, really good loss and not an average loss like Navy.

And FTR, though they may have some trouble with the option, I think OU is better than Navy but that has to be earned, not assumed.

You realize that Navy is competing with WMU for the Access spot, right?

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Yes but they should be in the top ten.

(11-27-2016 05:24 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  No G5 will make the playoff. Take a deep breath and live in the reality.

Houston had the chance of all chances this year. As you wrote...they had a decent conference schedule (not far behind the Big 12 and ACC actually)...they had two marquee OOC games against top 25 foes (although they didn't expect Louisville to be the media darling it was when they scheduled that one)...they had a season without dominant teams at the top (Alabama the only undefeated). If they could have gone undefeated...13-0...with the schedule they had, then they may have sniffed the top 4. But don't you see how perfectly the stars would have had to align for 1 solitary team in the G5 category...1 out of 60 of you...and they couldn't do it!!! Why do G5's keep fighting for the impossible? Create your own 8-team playoff...make some money...get your own identity in the college sports landscape (you'll still compete with P5 schools in the OOC).

Yes yes, we the " allied power conference " should start our own 8 team playoff
I'd rather die fighting on my feet than to continue living being told how to play football by Disney and the " axis power conference "

The committee " HAS NO " integrity.

(11-28-2016 11:43 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Yes but they should be in the top ten.

You haven't shown they should be in the top 20 yet. All you keep saying is "I don't care what the numbers say! In my biased AAC opinion, Navy is top 10 !!!".

Make a case for Navy being ranked ahead of WMU, regardless of where they should rank relative to anyone else. To do that, you need to overcome the fact that Navy has two more losses.

Good luck, given that .... Navy has no good OOC wins, Navy has no wins of any kind against teams currently ranked in the AP poll, and Navy's two losses come to an unranked team and the #25 team, and both were by decisive margins.

What you have is a 2-loss team that has played the #70 schedule, a soft schedule.

Lucky to be in the top 20.

Then how would you rate OU by contrast? What has OU done this season? Lose to a couple good teams, take out the trash and beat a solid team?

(11-29-2016 08:55 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Then how would you rate OU by contrast?

What part of "compare Navy to WMU" didn't sink in? That's the relevant comparison here, so have at it.

(11-29-2016 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 08:55 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Then how would you rate OU by contrast?

What part of "compare Navy to WMU" didn't sink in? That's the relevant comparison here, so have at it.

Fine, Navy does have 2 losses, including to a 10-win team with no bad losses and to a 9-win team that has had it's stock skyrocket recently.

Western beat a 6-6 Northwestern team, which if the committee's ridiculous weighted standards are to be considered, should count about as much as a win over a Houston, Memphis or Air Force. After all they did play Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska, so they should be a valued...until they're not and the committee just moves the goalposts. They also beat Illinois (rinse, lather, repeat). They routed Central Michigan on the road, who OkSt lost to at home. Their only notable win otherwise was Toledo.

I think both should be in about a dead heat but in the top ten. This isn't exactly a strong season and no one but the playoff contenders are really strong. Schools like Auburn and Nebraska are way ahead of Navy (as of last week), what a joke.

Now, don't dodge it, tell me what of any significance OU has done this year other than beat one solid team, take out the trash, and get trashed by arguably the second best team and the 6th place team in the AAC?

(11-29-2016 09:16 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 08:55 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Then how would you rate OU by contrast?

What part of "compare Navy to WMU" didn't sink in? That's the relevant comparison here, so have at it.

Fine, Navy does have 2 losses, including to a 10-win team with no bad losses and to a 9-win team that has had it's stock skyrocket recently.

Western beat a 6-6 Northwestern team, which if the committee's ridiculous weighted standards are to be considered, should count about as much as a win over a Houston, Memphis or Air Force. After all they did play Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska, so they should be a valued...until they're not and the committee just moves the goalposts. They also beat Illinois (rinse, lather, repeat). They routed Central Michigan on the road, who OkSt lost to at home. Their only notable win otherwise was Toledo.

I think both should be in about a dead heat but in the top ten. This isn't exactly a strong season and no one but the playoff contenders are really strong. Schools like Auburn and Nebraska are way ahead of Navy (as of last week), what a joke.

Now, don't dodge it, tell me what of any significance OU has done this year other than beat one solid team, take out the trash, and get trashed by arguably the second best team and the 6th place team in the AAC?

I don't see any way Navy can be a in a "dead heat" with WM. They have two more losses. That's a big gap, and to overcome that you need a LOT of positive things on your side to counterbalance it. Navy just doesn't have anything like that. They have played a tougher schedule, about #70 compared to #118 for WM, the difference between a soft schedule and a very soft schedule. That's not much of a difference, not anywhere near enough to hang two losses on.

And Navy doesn't have anything else - Big wins? Nothing against anyone in the top 25. Big OOC results? Nope, OOC results are considerably worse than conference results, always a bad sign.

(11-29-2016 09:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I don't see any way Navy can be a in a "dead heat" with WM. They have two more losses. That's a big gap, and to overcome that you need a LOT of positive things on your side to counterbalance it. Navy just doesn't have anything like that. They have played a tougher schedule, about #70 compared to #118 for WM, the difference between a soft schedule and a very soft schedule. That's not much of a difference, not anywhere near enough to hang two losses on.

And Navy doesn't have anything else - Big wins? Nothing against anyone in the top 25. Big OOC results? Nope, OOC results are considerably worse than conference results, always a bad sign.

I will admit Houston's underperformance has hurt Navy but on the other hand, it all balances out because UH and Navy had about 6 common opponents in conference, including the other teams that beat Houston. It proves the AAC was a good league this season, even if it doesn't have a sure-fire top 15 team.

This situation reminds me of the Missouri Valley Conference RPI situation a decade ago, just because the numbers stack up a certain way doesn't mean you have to accept and believe them. Sure enough, Missouri State was snubbed that year because the committee analyzed their artificially high numbers. So I reiterate what I said, I don't see a significant difference between ths strength of Navy's schedule and many other teams in the top 25.

(11-27-2016 07:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-27-2016 02:11 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  They'd place Navy in the top ten.

Navy has two losses and ZERO good OOC wins, and has played about the #70 schedule in the country.

That's good for about #20, which is about where they will be.

Anyone who thinks they should be higher is just a Navy/AAC fanboy.

Yep

It's the loss to Air Force that'd kill Navy. Losing to South Florida is a good loss. Air Force is neutral, but gives Navy 2 more than WMU.

Otherwise, all things are equal. Temple could also be a little underrated right now, since they lost to Army.

(11-29-2016 11:34 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(11-29-2016 09:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I don't see any way Navy can be a in a "dead heat" with WM. They have two more losses. That's a big gap, and to overcome that you need a LOT of positive things on your side to counterbalance it. Navy just doesn't have anything like that. They have played a tougher schedule, about #70 compared to #118 for WM, the difference between a soft schedule and a very soft schedule. That's not much of a difference, not anywhere near enough to hang two losses on.

And Navy doesn't have anything else - Big wins? Nothing against anyone in the top 25. Big OOC results? Nope, OOC results are considerably worse than conference results, always a bad sign.

I will admit Houston's underperformance has hurt Navy but on the other hand, it all balances out because UH and Navy had about 6 common opponents in conference, including the other teams that beat Houston. It proves the AAC was a good league this season, even if it doesn't have a sure-fire top 15 team.

The AAC was easily the best G5 league this season. No question.

But, sometimes the best league doesn't have the best team. It can be frustrating when your league has 4 of the top 6 teams, but none of them deserves to be #1. It happens.

(11-29-2016 12:43 PM)megadrone Wrote:  It's the loss to Air Force that'd kill Navy. Losing to South Florida is a good loss. Air Force is neutral, but gives Navy 2 more than WMU.

Otherwise, all things are equal. Temple could also be a little underrated right now, since they lost to Army.

The AFA loss is not great by any stretch but it's not nearly as bad as it looked a month ago. But we shouldn't be giving teams credit just for playing good competition, you have to actually do something against it. I keep picking on OU but they shouldn't get immeasurable credit just for putting on their pads and lining up against tOSU (thus skyrocketing their SOS), they got manhandled at home by them. They shouldn't get credit just for being in the Big 12 either.

Fact is the Big 12 and SEC were both down this year. And again, even in cases where you play Alabama you shouldn't always get credit just for showing up and trying your best. Alabama is a loss for 99% of college football, so you need to show something else in that game or otherwise to prove you're good, not just playing and taking the SOS boost because of it.

I look forward to seeing the standings tonight.

(11-29-2016 06:38 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
Fact is the Big 12 and SEC were both down this year. And again, even in cases where you play Alabama you shouldn't always get credit just for showing up and trying your best.

The Big 12 is down, everyone has them as the last place P5 conference.

But the SEC? They are only down relative to maybe themselves in years past, because all the computers have them as the #1 conference.