(11-02-2016 05:10 PM)emanoh Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 07:57 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 11:10 PM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

Quote: We had one in Naama and Cullop wasted her 5 years here.

Why would you say that? Isn't that kinda harsh?

I would say that the program wasted a wonderful opportunity to win a MAC tourney while Naama was here.

For most programs, it is rare to have all the necessary pieces in place to be able to reach the pinnacle of success that winning a championship (the one that counts, i.e., the tournament) represents, so on those occasions when all the elements are in place, it is important that the team take full advantage of their situation and win. There nothing quite so regrettable (and so totally worthless) as unrealized potential.

I felt that the WBB program missed a great opportunity with Naama, the men's program missed a great opportunity with Juice Brown and earlier with Greg Stempin, the 2015 Rockets football team with their best D in more than a decade, and ever to a lesser extent the 2012 footballs rockets.

Rightly or wrongly the ultimate responsibility for a team's success of lack of success rests fairly or unfairly on the shoulders of the head coach, so I can understand someone saying Cullop wasted a golden opportunity (not Naama per se) that Naama's time at UT presented her.

I will take the WNIT victory and the wins. What I think was wasted was any recruiting momemtum gained from that period. We should be swimming 8n recruits, not losing entire recruiting classes.

The hit-or-miss recruiting in years since the WNIT has been head-scratching. I will assume that we have properly identified the best MAC-level talent available and have tried to get them here in past classes, with most of them choosing to go elsewhere. Why would any top recruit in the MAC go to any other MAC school than here? Unless they enjoy playing in front of 378 fans, then I just don't get it. There aren't very many academic majors that UT doesn't offer...resources for women's bball here have to be better than anywhere else in the MAC...is it that the better recruits don't like the city scene and prefer Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

(11-02-2016 05:07 PM)emanoh Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 02:57 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Irish owe UT for sending the Rockets Gene Cross.

Didn't he come from Illinois?

I believe he played at Illinois but was an assistant at Notre Dame when he was hired at Toledo...?

Correct, googled. Played at Illinois, came to UT from ND. For good reason, I've blocked out that time period from my memory.

(11-02-2016 05:44 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 05:10 PM)emanoh Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 07:57 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 11:10 PM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

Quote: We had one in Naama and Cullop wasted her 5 years here.

Why would you say that? Isn't that kinda harsh?

I would say that the program wasted a wonderful opportunity to win a MAC tourney while Naama was here.

For most programs, it is rare to have all the necessary pieces in place to be able to reach the pinnacle of success that winning a championship (the one that counts, i.e., the tournament) represents, so on those occasions when all the elements are in place, it is important that the team take full advantage of their situation and win. There nothing quite so regrettable (and so totally worthless) as unrealized potential.

I felt that the WBB program missed a great opportunity with Naama, the men's program missed a great opportunity with Juice Brown and earlier with Greg Stempin, the 2015 Rockets football team with their best D in more than a decade, and ever to a lesser extent the 2012 footballs rockets.

Rightly or wrongly the ultimate responsibility for a team's success of lack of success rests fairly or unfairly on the shoulders of the head coach, so I can understand someone saying Cullop wasted a golden opportunity (not Naama per se) that Naama's time at UT presented her.

I will take the WNIT victory and the wins. What I think was wasted was any recruiting momemtum gained from that period. We should be swimming 8n recruits, not losing entire recruiting classes.

The hit-or-miss recruiting in years since the WNIT has been head-scratching. I will assume that we have properly identified the best MAC-level talent available and have tried to get them here in past classes, with most of them choosing to go elsewhere. Why would any top recruit in the MAC go to any other MAC school than here? Unless they enjoy playing in front of 378 fans, then I just don't get it. There aren't very many academic majors that UT doesn't offer...resources for women's bball here have to be better than anywhere else in the MAC...is it that the better recruits don't like the city scene and prefer Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

I completely agree. There is no reason that the women's bball team shouldn't be competing every year. We outdraw most if not all B10 women's teams. The fan support is top notch. The list goes on and on. The women should be the the Gonzaga of the midwest. The mens Gonzaga program came out of nowhere 10+ish yrs ago and usually competes with any of the powerhouses night in and out and wins their conf.

(11-02-2016 05:44 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  The hit-or-miss recruiting in years since the WNIT has been head-scratching. I will assume that we have properly identified the best MAC-level talent available and have tried to get them here in past classes, with most of them choosing to go elsewhere. Why would any top recruit in the MAC go to any other MAC school than here? Unless they enjoy playing in front of 378 fans, then I just don't get it. There aren't very many academic majors that UT doesn't offer...resources for women's bball here have to be better than anywhere else in the MAC...is it that the better recruits don't like the city scene and prefer Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

Well, they are ladies. Maybe Toledo just doesn't have the uptown sophistication of Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

(11-02-2016 05:57 PM)emanoh Wrote:  Correct, googled. Played at Illinois, came to UT from ND. For good reason, I've blocked out that time period from my memory.

He came highly recommended by the ND staff.

(11-02-2016 05:44 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  The hit-or-miss recruiting in years since the WNIT has been head-scratching. I will assume that we have properly identified the best MAC-level talent available and have tried to get them here in past classes, with most of them choosing to go elsewhere. Why would any top recruit in the MAC go to any other MAC school than here? Unless they enjoy playing in front of 378 fans, then I just don't get it. There aren't very many academic majors that UT doesn't offer...resources for women's bball here have to be better than anywhere else in the MAC...is it that the better recruits don't like the city scene and prefer Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

or Ypsilanti.

Lot's of reasons other than attendance in a sport that doesn't expect attendance. Most students arrive on campus, not knowing anyone. Recruits have opportunity to meet the people they will spend most of their time with, other players and coaches. Could be nothing more than a smooth talker. Looking even now, most high school girls coaches are male, so there could even be that aspect to it. Or it could simply be, coaches placing priority on things other than pure b-ball talent. Personality type. We seem to be populated mosty by small town, private urban or foreign players, players that might reflect small town Indiana?

Could be bunches of things, it's all speculation from MY POV. I think we have the best head coach we could ask for but maybe unless a run starts, we are only going to get that championship occasionally.

(11-02-2016 05:44 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  The hit-or-miss recruiting in years since the WNIT has been head-scratching. I will assume that we have properly identified the best MAC-level talent available and have tried to get them here in past classes, with most of them choosing to go elsewhere. Why would any top recruit in the MAC go to any other MAC school than here? Unless they enjoy playing in front of 378 fans, then I just don't get it. There aren't very many academic majors that UT doesn't offer...resources for women's bball here have to be better than anywhere else in the MAC...is it that the better recruits don't like the city scene and prefer Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

After the WNIT Championship, I too thought that the program was over the hump and headed back to its high level of play witnessed during in the late Fennelly/early Ehlen years. However, unfortunately to date there has been no follow through building on the WNIT success and currently it clearly represents the high water mark of Coach Cullop's tenure to date. While I didn't expect the next few recruiting classes to produce a stable of McDonald All American type recruits on the UT roster, neither did I expect a recruiting class that would be completely gone in its entirety from campus after a single season during which none of the entire class made any significant on court contributions in the very, very limited floor time only few of them saw. That recruiting miscalculation cost the program 2 or 3 three years; so after an amazing upward trajectory during Coach Cullop's first few years, this represented a major step backwards from which the program is just now (hopefully) beginning to recover.

You seem to think that the problem may have been that the staff aimed too high and thus had a number of recruits reject them. I think that whoever was responsible for searching for talent and screening recruits for suitability for the program did not do a great job and that coupled with some injuries and bad luck caused the recruiting train wreck that we experienced. Of course this is all just speculation on our part.

At least it appears that the situation has been improving since that time but the program may still be a year or two away from again seriously challenging for a NCAA Tournament berth. So, it appears that Coach Cullop is in the process of righting the ship but we probably won't know for sure for another couple of years.

(11-03-2016 08:43 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 05:44 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  The hit-or-miss recruiting in years since the WNIT has been head-scratching. I will assume that we have properly identified the best MAC-level talent available and have tried to get them here in past classes, with most of them choosing to go elsewhere. Why would any top recruit in the MAC go to any other MAC school than here? Unless they enjoy playing in front of 378 fans, then I just don't get it. There aren't very many academic majors that UT doesn't offer...resources for women's bball here have to be better than anywhere else in the MAC...is it that the better recruits don't like the city scene and prefer Muncie or Mount Pleasant?

After the WNIT Championship, I too thought that the program was over the hump and headed back to its high level of play witnessed during in the late Fennelly/early Ehlen years. However, unfortunately to date there has been no follow through building on the WNIT success and currently it clearly represents the high water mark of Coach Cullop's tenure to date. While I didn't expect the next few recruiting classes to produce a stable of McDonald All American type recruits on the UT roster, neither did I expect a recruiting class that would be completely gone [b]in its entirety[b/]from campus after a single season during which none of the entire class made any significant on court contributions in the very, very limited floor time only few of them saw. That recruiting miscalculation cost the program 2 or 3 three years; so after amazing upward trajectory during Coach Cullop's first few years, this represented a major step backwards from which the program is just now (hopefully) beginning to recover.

You seem to think that the problem may have been that the staff aimed too high and thus had a number of recruits reject them. I think that whoever was responsible for searching for talent and screening recruits for suitability for the program did not do a great job and that coupled with some injuries and bad luck caused the recruiting train wreck that we experienced. Of course this is all just speculation on our part.

At least it appears that the situation has been improving since that time but the program may still be a year or two away from again seriously challenging for a NCAA Tournament berth. So, it appears that Coach Cullop is in the process of righting the ship but we probably won't know for sure for another couple of years.

Well said. Good summary of what I think a lot of people are thinking.

What should have been her best recruiting year ended with no players from the class making it to their third year. Wells was supposed to bring the speed and the Chicago girl with the great sister was the most highly ranked recruit in MAC history according to a couple scouting sources. Neither made much of a splash at UT or at their subsequent stops. It does bring to mind the Cross situation (and Jay Eck). You never know what you're getting. No one could have predicted Naama's success or that Inma would completely redo her body and be All-MAC, just as no one would think an entire class of athletic, highly thought of recruits would disappear without a trace in the Rocket annals.

Following are the overall records for all MAC women's teams in conference regular-season play since Cullop started at UT:

1) Toledo 96-38
2) BGSU 92-42
3) Central Michigan 85-49
4) Akron 79-55
5) Ball State 76-58
6) Eastern Michigan 72-52
7) Ohio 58-76
8) Northern Illinois 53-81
8) Buffalo 53-81
10) Western Michigan 50-84
11) Kent State 47-87
12) Miami 43-91

I recognize that most of us would trade a few of those regular-season wins for a trip or two to the NCAA. Still, Cullop's tenure at UT has been a resounding success, including a lot of post-season success. It's not like we're the only program trying to recruit good players and win games. We're just doing it better than anyone else in the conference.

(11-04-2016 04:21 PM)Dwight Wrote:  Following are the overall records for all MAC women's teams in conference regular-season play since Cullop started at UT:

1) Toledo 96-38

I would gladly trade that for an...
0-30 season followed by a 22-8.

(11-02-2016 05:07 PM)emanoh Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 02:57 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Irish owe UT for sending the Rockets Gene Cross.

Didn't he come from Illinois?

Played at Illinois

was an assistant at ND when hired.......

sorry reacted too fast. saw it posted later.....

(11-04-2016 04:21 PM)Dwight Wrote:  Following are the overall records for all MAC women's teams in conference regular-season play since Cullop started at UT:

1) Toledo 96-38
2) BGSU 92-42
3) Central Michigan 85-49
4) Akron 79-55
5) Ball State 76-58
6) Eastern Michigan 72-52
7) Ohio 58-76
8) Northern Illinois 53-81
8) Buffalo 53-81
10) Western Michigan 50-84
11) Kent State 47-87
12) Miami 43-91

I recognize that most of us would trade a few of those regular-season wins for a trip or two to the NCAA. Still, Cullop's tenure at UT has been a resounding success, including a lot of post-season success. It's not like we're the only program trying to recruit good players and win games. We're just doing it better than anyone else in the conference.

Should not have to be an "either/or" situation, Coach Cullop has had at least 4 teams at Toledo that were capable of winning the MAC tournament including the senior laden talented team that went 15-1 during the regular season but came up short in the tournament as usual. When you play at a consistently high level year in and year out (hence the amazing 96-38 record) the law of averages says you should win at least an occasional championship (i.e Tournament) but at Toledo whether it is WBB, MBB or FB it doesn't matter because they all consistently defy the law of averages. Since Coach Cullop arrived at Toledo, 7 different MAC women's teams have gone to the NCAA while Toledo and four others have not.