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Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
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esayem Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
Will the Mountain West revisit expansion into Texas? It would be an upgrade for Rice and UTEP, plus it allows for Boise to play more games in California by moving to the West Division.

I imagine the Sun Belt would stand pat if they lost two members from the West, although UL Lafayette and Arkansas State could be possible replacements.
10-17-2016 06:09 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  With the Big 12 not expanding that leaves pretty much the current G5 conferences as is and nothing really changes except for some hurt expectations for some programs.
CUSA will stay at 14 and probably was wishing the AAC lost 2 so they could grab a couple of CUSA schools.

Sunbelt is stable and won't have any need to expand.

AAC and the MW will now wait for the next TV contract to be put on the market...however, I do have to wonder if the AAC still has that ESPN match carry over from the Big East.

MAC will carry on forward as is.

NMSU, UMass and Idaho really have no where to go.
Idaho's president had the great for sight to see no conference is going to take them except the FCS Big Sky.
NMSU and UMass are pretty screwed now....how long they could stay Indy is unknown but the road will get harder to put together a schedule in the future.....will FCS be in the future for one or both?

Army will still continued to be Indy.

BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?
1) it's accept
2) nothing is stable. This is far from the end.

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10-17-2016 06:14 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
There is more thought among university presidents about where they belong institutionally.

Take UConn and Temple's case, both schools have grown. They wouldn't want to move back to private school dominated conferences.

The MWC is watered down from the conference dominated by BYU, Utah and TCU three programs that were as good then as they are right now. San Jose State and Utah State are not becoming of the conference that BYU wants to move back to.
10-17-2016 08:24 PM
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ShoreBuc Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
Time for all the expansion candidates to take their lipstick and knee pads off and get back to making their current conference stronger
10-17-2016 08:30 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:30 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  Time for all the expansion candidates to take their lipstick and knee pads off and get back to making their current conference stronger

The AAC has been doing that, and now that it looks like all of the members are stuck here maybe some focus can be put on the fact that the AAC has been exceeding any reasonable expectations when it was formed. It's not quite power conference level but the metrics show it's closer to the P5 than it is to the rest of the G5 this year. Keep that up, get a TV deal that actually does make the league the "tweener" AAC fans thought it would be and then see what the fall out in 2025 is.
10-17-2016 08:40 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 04:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?

BYU will NOT join the MWC. Yes, they will pretend to be equal with Utah into eternity before they join the MWC, AAC or any other G5 league. They said that they couldn't sustain independence only in the context of not being in a POWER conference. Their independent TV contract and schedule arestill far superior to being in a G5 league and they at least some additional prestige, too.

The MWC and AAC are about as likely to add Notre Dame compared to adding BYU. That's how strongly BYU feels on this issue. It's a non-starter to willingly and structurally relegate themselves to the G5 when Utah is in the Pac-12. It's just a non-starter with everyone that matters at BYU.

Utah in the PAC-12 changed the dynamic for BYU. Being independent and having a decent ESPN deal is bettter than having a conference slate of East Carolina, Tulane, SMU, Central Florida, etc. BYU joining the AAC or MWC or one of those "best of the rest" scenarios people throw on this board means they accepted Utah's rise and their new place as a mid major. Not going to happen.
10-17-2016 08:41 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?

BYU will NOT join the MWC. Yes, they will pretend to be equal with Utah into eternity before they join the MWC, AAC or any other G5 league. They said that they couldn't sustain independence only in the context of not being in a POWER conference. Their independent TV contract and schedule arestill far superior to being in a G5 league and they at least some additional prestige, too.

The MWC and AAC are about as likely to add Notre Dame compared to adding BYU. That's how strongly BYU feels on this issue. It's a non-starter to willingly and structurally relegate themselves to the G5 when Utah is in the Pac-12. It's just a non-starter with everyone that matters at BYU.

Utah in the PAC-12 changed the dynamic for BYU. Being independent and having a decent ESPN deal is bettter than having a conference slate of East Carolina, Tulane, SMU, Central Florida, etc. BYU joining the AAC or MWC or one of those "best of the rest" scenarios people throw on this board means they accepted Utah's rise and their new place as a mid major. Not going to happen.

Completely agree. BYU can not accept that they are probably gonna be forever behind Utah. I'm sure that's a bitter pill to swallow, and being Indy at least allows them to be able to lie to themselves that they aren't in a drastically worse situation than Utah.
10-17-2016 08:43 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:43 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 08:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?

BYU will NOT join the MWC. Yes, they will pretend to be equal with Utah into eternity before they join the MWC, AAC or any other G5 league. They said that they couldn't sustain independence only in the context of not being in a POWER conference. Their independent TV contract and schedule arestill far superior to being in a G5 league and they at least some additional prestige, too.

The MWC and AAC are about as likely to add Notre Dame compared to adding BYU. That's how strongly BYU feels on this issue. It's a non-starter to willingly and structurally relegate themselves to the G5 when Utah is in the Pac-12. It's just a non-starter with everyone that matters at BYU.

Utah in the PAC-12 changed the dynamic for BYU. Being independent and having a decent ESPN deal is bettter than having a conference slate of East Carolina, Tulane, SMU, Central Florida, etc. BYU joining the AAC or MWC or one of those "best of the rest" scenarios people throw on this board means they accepted Utah's rise and their new place as a mid major. Not going to happen.

Completely agree. BYU can not accept that they are probably gonna be forever behind Utah. I'm sure that's a bitter pill to swallow, and being Indy at least allows them to be able to lie to themselves that they aren't in a drastically worse situation than Utah.

But yet BYU can realistically say they are in a far better position than being in a G5 conference.
10-17-2016 08:47 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?

BYU will NOT join the MWC. Yes, they will pretend to be equal with Utah into eternity before they join the MWC, AAC or any other G5 league. They said that they couldn't sustain independence only in the context of not being in a POWER conference. Their independent TV contract and schedule arestill far superior to being in a G5 league and they at least some additional prestige, too.

The MWC and AAC are about as likely to add Notre Dame compared to adding BYU. That's how strongly BYU feels on this issue. It's a non-starter to willingly and structurally relegate themselves to the G5 when Utah is in the Pac-12. It's just a non-starter with everyone that matters at BYU.

Utah in the PAC-12 changed the dynamic for BYU. Being independent and having a decent ESPN deal is bettter than having a conference slate of East Carolina, Tulane, SMU, Central Florida, etc. BYU joining the AAC or MWC or one of those "best of the rest" scenarios people throw on this board means they accepted Utah's rise and their new place as a mid major. Not going to happen.

BYU is afraid of getting frozen out of scheduling opportunities due to LGBTQ issues. A conference would afford some serious protection in this respect as long as it comes about in a rapid fashion that doesn't allow the LGBTQ stuff to rear its head during the formation.
I think BYU is also getting a little more comfortable with having Boise as a primary rival. If Boise moves to a "Best Of" I think BYU listens. If rebroadcast of content on BYU TV is permitted, if it provides NY6 access, and has a promise of decent bowl tie-ins, I think BYU joins.
10-17-2016 08:47 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:30 PM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  Time for all the expansion candidates to take their lipstick and knee pads off and get back to making their current conference stronger

^^^This.

Right now the AAC can't offer enough money to bring over any schools from the MWC and the MWC can't offer enough money to bring over any schools from the AAC. Moreover neither conference is likely to see a substantial increase in the value of its next TV deal since the priority for the networks as their cable fee revenues become more constrained will be to keep the P5 happy. So I don't see either conference raiding the other, rather they will just go on squabbling over which is the taller midget.

IMHO there will be no "best of" conference because no network will be willing to put enough money on the table to outweigh the geographic disadvantages.

As for BYU, I agree with those who say their leadership is too proud and too sensitive to Utah's P5 status to consider rejoining the MWC or joining the AAC. I think that's a strategic miscalculation by BYU but ego is the strongest driver in conference realignment.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2016 08:51 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
10-17-2016 08:48 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:47 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 08:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?

BYU will NOT join the MWC. Yes, they will pretend to be equal with Utah into eternity before they join the MWC, AAC or any other G5 league. They said that they couldn't sustain independence only in the context of not being in a POWER conference. Their independent TV contract and schedule arestill far superior to being in a G5 league and they at least some additional prestige, too.

The MWC and AAC are about as likely to add Notre Dame compared to adding BYU. That's how strongly BYU feels on this issue. It's a non-starter to willingly and structurally relegate themselves to the G5 when Utah is in the Pac-12. It's just a non-starter with everyone that matters at BYU.

Utah in the PAC-12 changed the dynamic for BYU. Being independent and having a decent ESPN deal is bettter than having a conference slate of East Carolina, Tulane, SMU, Central Florida, etc. BYU joining the AAC or MWC or one of those "best of the rest" scenarios people throw on this board means they accepted Utah's rise and their new place as a mid major. Not going to happen.

BYU is afraid of getting frozen out of scheduling opportunities due to LGBTQ issues. A conference would afford some serious protection in this respect as long as it comes about in a rapid fashion that doesn't allow the LGBTQ stuff to rear its head during the formation.
I think BYU is also getting a little more comfortable with having Boise as a primary rival. If Boise moves to a "Best Of" I think BYU listens. If rebroadcast of content on BYU TV is permitted, if it provides NY6 access, and has a promise of decent bowl tie-ins, I think BYU joins.

No they won't.
10-17-2016 08:50 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:47 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 08:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 04:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU is the story now....they have said they can't sustain Indy in the long term....with the Big 12 decision do they continue to be Indy and pretend they are equal with Utah or do they ask to see if the MW will take them?

BYU will NOT join the MWC. Yes, they will pretend to be equal with Utah into eternity before they join the MWC, AAC or any other G5 league. They said that they couldn't sustain independence only in the context of not being in a POWER conference. Their independent TV contract and schedule arestill far superior to being in a G5 league and they at least some additional prestige, too.

The MWC and AAC are about as likely to add Notre Dame compared to adding BYU. That's how strongly BYU feels on this issue. It's a non-starter to willingly and structurally relegate themselves to the G5 when Utah is in the Pac-12. It's just a non-starter with everyone that matters at BYU.

Utah in the PAC-12 changed the dynamic for BYU. Being independent and having a decent ESPN deal is bettter than having a conference slate of East Carolina, Tulane, SMU, Central Florida, etc. BYU joining the AAC or MWC or one of those "best of the rest" scenarios people throw on this board means they accepted Utah's rise and their new place as a mid major. Not going to happen.

BYU is afraid of getting frozen out of scheduling opportunities due to LGBTQ issues. A conference would afford some serious protection in this respect as long as it comes about in a rapid fashion that doesn't allow the LGBTQ stuff to rear its head during the formation.
I think BYU is also getting a little more comfortable with having Boise as a primary rival. If Boise moves to a "Best Of" I think BYU listens. If rebroadcast of content on BYU TV is permitted, if it provides NY6 access, and has a promise of decent bowl tie-ins, I think BYU joins.

GLBT issues or not I just can't see BYU being left out in the cold when it comes to scheduling. One thing is to question their inclusion in a conference like Iowa State did and another is blocking BYU in signing a 1-1 deal with X school. There's plenty of G5 schools that would like to play BYU. The entire Pac-12 South likes to play BYU as well. SEC schools have more conservative fanbases as well so they would be willing to schedule them. There's the service academies too.
10-17-2016 08:59 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
Another thing people forget is that BYU joining a G5 conference is really admitting they're more like Utah State than Utah. For ego purposes and trust me on this one, BYU has a huge ego, I just don't see it happening.
10-17-2016 09:04 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
Would a "best of" conference even be unpalatable for BYU? I could see the AAC adding Boise St, Air Force, BYU, and San Diego St and gaining a stranglehold on the G5 access bowl slot and in practice BYU would have the same level of accessibility to the NY6 as rival Utah.

To make this happen I think the AAC either has to grant those four full membership or functionally create 2 conferences for Olympic sports, shifting Tulsa, SMU, Houston, and Tulane to the Western Conference with the new comers. That means 8 full members in the West and 7 in the East. If need be both sides could bolster their ranks with nonfootball members. I think this would cement the league's place as the best of the rest and its nationwide footprint and brand names like Boise St, Navy, Air Force and UConn combined with great metro areas like Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and USF ought to make for a tv package worht more than the current AAC deal.
10-17-2016 09:19 PM
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shizzle787 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  There is more thought among university presidents about where they belong institutionally.

Take UConn and Temple's case, both schools have grown. They wouldn't want to move back to private school dominated conferences.

The MWC is watered down from the conference dominated by BYU, Utah and TCU three programs that were as good then as they are right now. San Jose State and Utah State are not becoming of the conference that BYU wants to move back to.
Bingo. When you look at the standings of the MW, everyone seems to fit in except those two, to the point that you forget either of them (especially SJSU) plays FBS football in a not that terrible conference.
10-17-2016 09:48 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
I think Vegas landing the Raiders and UNLV getting a real stadium and facilities would be critical to a "Best Of" conference.

SDSU, a real UNLV, UNM, CSU, Boise, and BYU make up a very viable division with several schools that don't compete with a PAC school in their local market.

Houston, Tulane, Memphis, USF, Cincinnati, and UConn give a nice range of markets also including several schools in decent markets without a P5 school in that market.

That conference IMO is substantially better than the old MWC at the bottom and would eventually produce a cadre of perennial top teams like any conference will.
10-17-2016 09:57 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 09:48 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  
(10-17-2016 08:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  There is more thought among university presidents about where they belong institutionally.

Take UConn and Temple's case, both schools have grown. They wouldn't want to move back to private school dominated conferences.

The MWC is watered down from the conference dominated by BYU, Utah and TCU three programs that were as good then as they are right now. San Jose State and Utah State are not becoming of the conference that BYU wants to move back to.
Bingo. When you look at the standings of the MW, everyone seems to fit in except those two, to the point that you forget either of them (especially SJSU) plays FBS football in a not that terrible conference.

Utah State fits nicely in the MWC. Their FB team has been decent lately and basketball has always been solid. They have lots in common with the Front Range schools. The only reason SJSU is in the MWC is because UTEP said no at the time Utah State got invited. Then the commissioner called San Jose and the rest is history.
10-17-2016 10:03 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:59 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  GLBT issues or not I just can't see BYU being left out in the cold when it comes to scheduling.

Yeah, the politics of conference realignment and the politics of scheduling games are very different beasts. Inviting a school to your conference is giving them a vote in matters which will have a big impact on the broader image of your school. Meanwhile, the immediate response to "why did you schedule BYU" is "so we could beat them".

With BYU having "P5ish" status from several P5 conferences in requirements to schedule P5 schools, and BYU having media coverage of their home games that would make most Go5 schools happy to schedule a H/H, they aren't about to be left out in the cold in scheduling.
10-17-2016 10:17 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 08:24 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  There is more thought among university presidents about where they belong institutionally.

Take UConn and Temple's case, both schools have grown. They wouldn't want to move back to private school dominated conferences.

The MWC is watered down from the conference dominated by BYU, Utah and TCU three programs that were as good then as they are right now. San Jose State and Utah State are not becoming of the conference that BYU wants to move back to.
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10-18-2016 12:15 AM
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RE: Big 12 non-expansion effect on the G5 conferences and Indy programs
(10-17-2016 09:57 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  a real UNLV

There is no real UNLV football. Their football program is no better than SJSU's. And I don't see a reason to believe it's going to drastically improve in the future, or to believe that the Vegas casino godfathers are ever going to pour money into UNLV football. Look at all that money they're diverting into a stadium project to chase the Raiders, why have they never funneled even one-thousandth that much money into UNLV football? Because UNLV football doesn't make the top 100 on their list of priorities.
10-18-2016 12:54 AM
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