(10-19-2016 05:54 AM)exowlswimmer Wrote: Hawaii Owl,
A long view would show that a PAC-14 expansion now
(Hawaii and Rice) prior to the big12 implosion sets up the PAC for picking up Texas after the big12 disbands. Hawaii gives the PAC teams a 13th game in years that they travel to the islands. Rice enhances the academic pedigree while offering a Texas showcase game for recruits with (at least initially) little downside of an embarrassing blowout by Rice. The two schools expand the PAC-12 footprint and at about 820 miles to the Pacific (SW towards Mazatlan) Rice is not as far from the Pacific ocean as some critics might think.
Go West young man, there are plenty of academic schools in the eastern conferences, provide those out west an academically rigorous option outside of the NE!
For you, Exowlswimmer ("Together, we will love the beach")
Artist: Village People
Album: Go West
Cut: "Go West"
March 26, 1979 Casablanca
(10-19-2016 08:22 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: IMO, being located in Houston (something we cannot change) is among Rice's biggest drawbacks. Explanation: If Rice were located near West Coast, I think we'd be in Pac12. If on East Coast, we'd have a number of P5 conferences competing for us. Houston, while a big city, is conference no-man's land. It is probably much harder for Texas natives and residents to see and understand this as those on the coasts see it most clearly.
(10-19-2016 09:01 AM)texowl2 Wrote: Agree 100% that our location is problematic, unfortunately......
Sorry, I didn't explain my comment. I wasn't discussing the merits of Houston specifically, just the fact that Rice was located: (1) in a big city that (2) did not have a P5 school within 90 miles and (3) had an airport hub to make travel easy from anywhere in the country.
That said, I disagree with you both. Rice is a direct flight from every PAC school (within ~30 miles) except Oregon, Oregon St., and Washington St. It is just as easy for UCLA or Arizona St. to get to Rice as those 3 schools. The PAC, as a conference, has already saturated the western states. Adding another California school would make as little sense as the Big XII adding another Texas school. Boise and/or Idaho just aren't sufficient markets. They already have a presence in Utah, even if they didn't have the religion issues with BYU. And there really aren't any other candidates, outside of maybe a San Diego school if they feel they don't have enough penetration into the SoCal market, Air Force if they want a school that has some Western & National appeal, or UNLV.
I'm not saying Rice would be the PAC's first choice. Or even in the top 4 (right now). But if Rice can get its stuff in order, I'd rather be in Houston than Lubbock, El Paso, or even San Antonio.
(10-18-2016 06:48 PM)Jonathan Sadow Wrote: What do I think would be the most likely place Rice could land? I think I-45 Owl came up with this idea first:...
(10-16-2016 11:22 AM)OldOwl Wrote: I always thought the ACC is a better conf for us instead of the Big 12. Bringing the Houston market into the ACC would be a real coup and our academics would of coarse be on par with other universities in the ACC.
I'm glad to hear that my (now dormant) 22 year old campaign of pushing the Rice and SMU to the ACC rumor at least made some traction. And, though I haven't been able to produce evidence of it, I'm pretty sure that this rumor came from the pages of the Houston Chronicle or Houston Post.
(10-19-2016 08:33 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: There is no alternative universe where Rice is preferable to UT when discussing candidates to join an ATHLETICALLY based conference. I root against UT at every opportunity, but I can't find any basis to make the above argument.
There is one. TU does not play well with others. Their arrogance drove Arkansas to the SEC, which may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back (except it was a lot bigger than a straw) leading to the fall of the SWC. The departures of Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou, and particularly aTm from the XII were all at least partly because they got tired of dealing with TU's sense of privilege and entitlement. Boren will take OU somewhere when the assignment of rights and TV contracts expire in 2025, just to get away from them, and Okie State is sure to go with them.
Texas to the B1G is interesting to contemplate. The B1G is the one league with too much arrogance of its own to put up with their BS (SEC won't either, but they're not going there). If TU goes north, the fireworks will be something to see. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they start telling Michigan and Ohio State how to run their programs.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2016 02:25 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
(10-19-2016 08:33 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: There is no alternative universe where Rice is preferable to UT when discussing candidates to join an ATHLETICALLY based conference. I root against UT at every opportunity, but I can't find any basis to make the above argument.
There is one. TU does not play well with others. Their arrogance drove Arkansas to the SEC, which may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back (except it was a lot bigger than a straw) leading to the fall of the SWC. The departures of Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou, and particularly aTm from the XII were all at least partly because they got tired of dealing with TU's sense of privilege and entitlement. Boren will take OU somewhere when the assignment of rights and TV contracts expire in 2025, just to get away from them, and Okie State is sure to go with them.
Texas to the B1G is interesting to contemplate. The B1G is the one league with too much arrogance of its own to put up with their BS (SEC won't either, but they're not going there). If TU goes north, the fireworks will be something to see. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they start telling Michigan and Ohio State how to run their programs.
You don't play nice in the sandbox, eventually all the kids leave or don't come back. If OU/OKST left, TU would probably be forced to play nice and/or become a large fish in a pretty large pond-wouldn't that be hilarious. U kinda wonder if the Big 8 members regret morphing to the Big 12. I certainly regret that UH joined the SWC.
(10-18-2016 11:15 PM)texowl2 Wrote: all great, but is academics more important the US $. Sadly not......
Being in Houston is important. It will forever give Rice some semblance of upside. Academics can be a tie-breaker if Rice is close to even on some of the other items (eyeballs, butts-in-seats, etc.).
good luck w that
Hawaii Owl,
A long view would show that a PAC-14 expansion now
(Hawaii and Rice) prior to the big12 implosion sets up the PAC for picking up Texas after the big12 disbands. Hawaii gives the PAC teams a 13th game in years that they travel to the islands. Rice enhances the academic pedigree while offering a Texas showcase game for recruits with (at least initially) little downside of an embarrassing blowout by Rice. The two schools expand the PAC-12 footprint and at about 820 miles to the Pacific (SW towards Mazatlan) Rice is not as far from the Pacific ocean as some critics might think.
Go West young man, there are plenty of academic schools in the eastern conferences, provide those out west an academically rigorous option outside of the NE!
Not sure you got my main point, and I believe the only real relevant point, is getting Rice football relevant enough to get us within spitting distance of making it to a P5 conference. Hawaii , with it's obvious increased travel costs, is at a clear disadvantage to going anywhere
(10-18-2016 06:48 PM)Jonathan Sadow Wrote: What do I think would be the most likely place Rice could land? I think I-45 Owl came up with this idea first:...
(10-16-2016 11:22 AM)OldOwl Wrote: I always thought the ACC is a better conf for us instead of the Big 12. Bringing the Houston market into the ACC would be a real coup and our academics would of coarse be on par with other universities in the ACC.
I'm glad to hear that my (now dormant) 22 year old campaign of pushing the Rice and SMU to the ACC rumor at least made some traction. And, though I haven't been able to produce evidence of it, I'm pretty sure that this rumor came from the pages of the Houston Chronicle or Houston Post.
ACC is the P5 I'd most like to see Rice in, as I think we'd match up better with those schools, and we provide them an in to Texas recruiting. SEC West makes most sense geographically, but I doubt we'd ever be very good there in FB with all the 800lb gorillas. AAC West makes the best institutional fit, but it is G5. I see Owl69's logic for Rice to the PAC, as it is based more on what other moves are likely. Rice to the BiG wouldn't be as bad winning-wise as SEC West, but it'd be close. I'm not sure Rice to MWC does much for us, and we would be in much bigger danger of disappearing from the landscape. The BigXII is too dysfunctional and too expensive for the very short term prestige it might have brought had we somehow been chosen, but those schools will be available once the Big XII breaks up anyway, so no real big whoop there.
(10-20-2016 09:49 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: Rice to the BiG wouldn't be as bad winning-wise as SEC West, but it'd be close.
Rice could and should still play UTSA and UNT and if we're p5 and they aren't, we should beat them regularly. We should play UH and beat them sometimes... or a service academy.... and we should play one game for warm-ups like every other p5. Of course we could go 2-2 against this schedule in bad years, but 3-1 and 4-0 would be the far larger cohorts.... Meaning we need 3 other wins.
B1G has Michigan and Ohio State and Nebraska, but it also has Purdue and Illinois and Rutgers. It also has Northwestern whom we should be competitive with and other teams come and go from the 'beatable' ranks... and we need 2-3 wins.
As you say, I like that far better than Miss State. Ole Miss, Ark, LSU, Auburn and A&M to find 2-3 wins.... though looking at that lineup, you can certainly see why they might want US rather than Texas or even UH.
(10-20-2016 09:49 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: Rice to the BiG wouldn't be as bad winning-wise as SEC West, but it'd be close.
Rice could and should still play UTSA and UNT and if we're p5 and they aren't, we should beat them regularly. We should play UH and beat them sometimes... or a service academy.... and we should play one game for warm-ups like every other p5. Of course we could go 2-2 against this schedule in bad years, but 3-1 and 4-0 would be the far larger cohorts.... Meaning we need 3 other wins.
B1G has Michigan and Ohio State and Nebraska, but it also has Purdue and Illinois and Rutgers. It also has Northwestern whom we should be competitive with and other teams come and go from the 'beatable' ranks... and we need 2-3 wins.
As you say, I like that far better than Miss State. Ole Miss, Ark, LSU, Auburn and A&M to find 2-3 wins.... though looking at that lineup, you can certainly see why they might want US rather than Texas or even UH.
Agreed. Please understand, I'd be tickled pink if Rice went to SEC West or BiG.
Also, the B1G tries to have only AAU schools as a member. Nebraska was AAU when they were invited in but later kicked out of the AAU. The only two G5 members that are AAU members are Rice and Tulane so would be possible for their expansion. I do not fore see that they could pouch an AAU member from another P5 school so that limits possible expansion.
Texas destroyed the SWC and they might later destroy the Big XII. They are still in the Big XII because no other P5 would put up with them hogging the LHN money.
(10-19-2016 02:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(10-19-2016 08:33 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: There is no alternative universe where Rice is preferable to UT when discussing candidates to join an ATHLETICALLY based conference. I root against UT at every opportunity, but I can't find any basis to make the above argument.
There is one. TU does not play well with others. Their arrogance drove Arkansas to the SEC, which may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back (except it was a lot bigger than a straw) leading to the fall of the SWC. The departures of Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou, and particularly aTm from the XII were all at least partly because they got tired of dealing with TU's sense of privilege and entitlement. Boren will take OU somewhere when the assignment of rights and TV contracts expire in 2025, just to get away from them, and Okie State is sure to go with them.
Texas to the B1G is interesting to contemplate. The B1G is the one league with too much arrogance of its own to put up with their BS (SEC won't either, but they're not going there). If TU goes north, the fireworks will be something to see. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they start telling Michigan and Ohio State how to run their programs.
(10-20-2016 06:07 PM)75src Wrote: Also, the B1G tries to have only AAU schools as a member. Nebraska was AAU when they were invited in but later kicked out of the AAU. The only two G5 members that are AAU members are Rice and Tulane so would be possible for their expansion. I do not fore see that they could pouch an AAU member from another P5 school so that limits possible expansion.
Texas destroyed the SWC and they might later destroy the Big XII. They are still in the Big XII because no other P5 would put up with them hogging the LHN money.
(10-19-2016 02:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(10-19-2016 08:33 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: There is no alternative universe where Rice is preferable to UT when discussing candidates to join an ATHLETICALLY based conference. I root against UT at every opportunity, but I can't find any basis to make the above argument.
There is one. TU does not play well with others. Their arrogance drove Arkansas to the SEC, which may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back (except it was a lot bigger than a straw) leading to the fall of the SWC. The departures of Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou, and particularly aTm from the XII were all at least partly because they got tired of dealing with TU's sense of privilege and entitlement. Boren will take OU somewhere when the assignment of rights and TV contracts expire in 2025, just to get away from them, and Okie State is sure to go with them.
Texas to the B1G is interesting to contemplate. The B1G is the one league with too much arrogance of its own to put up with their BS (SEC won't either, but they're not going there). If TU goes north, the fireworks will be something to see. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they start telling Michigan and Ohio State how to run their programs.
Rice, Tulane, Texas, Kansas, Iowa State and Buffalo are the only D1 FBS AAU schools outside of the P4 (SEC, ACC, B1G and PAC12,14,16 or ...) Let's not kid ourselves, the b12 is on its last legs and will not survive in its current configuration once the current TV contract ends.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2016 05:43 AM by exowlswimmer.)
(10-20-2016 06:07 PM)75src Wrote: Also, the B1G tries to have only AAU schools as a member. Nebraska was AAU when they were invited in but later kicked out of the AAU. The only two G5 members that are AAU members are Rice and Tulane so would be possible for their expansion. I do not fore see that they could pouch an AAU member from another P5 school so that limits possible expansion.
Texas destroyed the SWC and they might later destroy the Big XII. They are still in the Big XII because no other P5 would put up with them hogging the LHN money.
(10-19-2016 02:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
(10-19-2016 08:33 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: There is no alternative universe where Rice is preferable to UT when discussing candidates to join an ATHLETICALLY based conference. I root against UT at every opportunity, but I can't find any basis to make the above argument.
There is one. TU does not play well with others. Their arrogance drove Arkansas to the SEC, which may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back (except it was a lot bigger than a straw) leading to the fall of the SWC. The departures of Nebraska, Colorado, Mizzou, and particularly aTm from the XII were all at least partly because they got tired of dealing with TU's sense of privilege and entitlement. Boren will take OU somewhere when the assignment of rights and TV contracts expire in 2025, just to get away from them, and Okie State is sure to go with them.
Texas to the B1G is interesting to contemplate. The B1G is the one league with too much arrogance of its own to put up with their BS (SEC won't either, but they're not going there). If TU goes north, the fireworks will be something to see. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they start telling Michigan and Ohio State how to run their programs.
Rice, Tulane, Texas, Kansas, Iowa State and Buffalo are the only D1 FBS AAU schools outside of the P4 (SEC, ACC, B1G and PAC12,14,16 or ...) Let's not kid ourselves, the b12 is on its last legs and will not survive in its current configuration once the current TV contract ends.
That wouldn't be a bad conference in 2025 (or sooner if the Big12 doesn't make it to the full term of the GOR.)
Would give Texas a great "out" to take the high road academically, only tie them to 5 conference games (and they can make much more OOC anyway if there's still teams left that will schedule them)
3+ bid conference in basketball and baseball.
Line up two bowl tie ins (maybe coax a couple more AAU schools) and on the next CFP contract that's a Px conference.
Carry all conference games on the official conference network (LHN).
UT might even be able to contend for the title in football most years :/
(10-20-2016 06:07 PM)75src Wrote: Texas destroyed the SWC and they might later destroy the Big XII. They are still in the Big XII because no other P5 would put up with them hogging the LHN money.
Texas has clearly made a mess of the Big XII, but I don't think it's fair to pin the demise of the SWC on them. I think the Aggies were a much bigger factor in its demise, both on the role of NCAA violations and pushing to get out.
(10-20-2016 06:07 PM)75src Wrote: Texas destroyed the SWC and they might later destroy the Big XII. They are still in the Big XII because no other P5 would put up with them hogging the LHN money.
Texas has clearly made a mess of the Big XII, but I don't think it's fair to pin the demise of the SWC on them. I think the Aggies were a much bigger factor in its demise, both on the role of NCAA violations and pushing to get out.
and letting UH in the SWC, which led to everyone else except Rice cheating, then the SMU death penalty.
(10-21-2016 11:00 AM)I45owl Wrote: Texas has clearly made a mess of the Big XII, but I don't think it's fair to pin the demise of the SWC on them. I think the Aggies were a much bigger factor in its demise, both on the role of NCAA violations and pushing to get out.
The problem with the SWC was neither UT nor A&M. It was that 5/9 of the conference had small fanbases and relied on the other 4 to carry all the weight. Other conferences have schools like that but in ratios closer to 1/10.
] Rice, Tulane, Texas, Kansas, Iowa State and Buffalo[/b] are the only D1 FBS AAU schools outside of the P4 (SEC, ACC, B1G and PAC12,14,16 or ...) Let's not kid ourselves, the b12 is on its last legs and will not survive in its current configuration once the current TV contract ends.
That wouldn't be a bad conference in 2025 (or sooner if the Big12 doesn't make it to the full term of the GOR.)
Would give Texas a great "out" to take the high road academically, only tie them to 5 conference games (and they can make much more OOC anyway if there's still teams left that will schedule them)
3+ bid conference in basketball and baseball.
Line up two bowl tie ins (maybe coax a couple more AAU schools) and on the next CFP contract that's a Px conference.
Carry all conference games on the official conference network (LHN).
UT might even be able to contend for the title in football most years :/
Give other AAU schools an invite to Conference 2025 (or "Conference Moonshot" (JFK)) provided they upgrade to FBS by then. Candidates include Boston University, Stony Brook, McGill and UToronto. Much easier for an AAU school to up their football to FBS than for a pretender to try to force their way into the AAU club.
