(10-09-2016 08:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 10:01 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 09:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 09:37 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Correct. Have to win the conference championship to be considered for the Access Bowl.

Note that this rule does apply only to the designated G5 Access slot. If Houston somehow were to be ranked in the top 10, they could theoretically be invited to another at-large slot in a NY6 (Access) bowl if such a slot was available even if they aren't the AAC champ.

But two G5 in NY6 bowls, that's just not going to happen. And if were to happen this year, it would match G5 vs G5, as the Cotton Bowl is the only bowl whose slots are not taken by conference contracts this year.

Only problem this is the worst year for at-large spots. More than likely only one spot will be available. I doubt Fiesta would want two G5 teams.

Orange ACC vs B10/SEC
Rose P12 vs B10
Sugar SEC vs B12
Fiesta G5 vs At-Large
Cotton & Peach Semi's

So, you're saying it's way-too-early NY6 projection time? Sweet.

Right now the semis would be Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan. But OSU plays Michigan, so drop one of those down a few spots and bring in Washington. Next up is Houston, who just lost to Navy.

So the semis Alabama, OSU/Michigan winner, Clemson, Washington.
Rose OSU/Michigan loser vs #15 Stanford
Sugar #8 Texas A&M vs #13 Baylor
Orange #7 Louisville vs Tennessee? Wisconsin? (SEC/B10 rotation rules come into play)
Fiesta #19 Boise STate vs #10 Miami

I was correct, the COTTON is hosting the G5 team this year, the Peach and Fiesta are the Playoff games.

Concerning the Orange ... it must take the highest ranked available B1G or SEC team (ND is out of the picture, obviously) this year, meaning schools that aren't in the playoffs or the Rose or Sugar.

With the Orange, does it absolutely have to take the top ranked? I am kind of curious how that works.

I know that was a guiding principle along with making sure it got at least 3 Big Ten and 3 SEC over an 8 year time frame. Long run it might be better taking a #9 Wisconsin over a #8 Tennessee just to keep the current representation even. That said, there has only been one choice so far, so it might be required to just take highest (haven't seen a definite rule).

(10-11-2016 07:01 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 10:01 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 09:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Note that this rule does apply only to the designated G5 Access slot. If Houston somehow were to be ranked in the top 10, they could theoretically be invited to another at-large slot in a NY6 (Access) bowl if such a slot was available even if they aren't the AAC champ.

But two G5 in NY6 bowls, that's just not going to happen. And if were to happen this year, it would match G5 vs G5, as the Cotton Bowl is the only bowl whose slots are not taken by conference contracts this year.

Only problem this is the worst year for at-large spots. More than likely only one spot will be available. I doubt Fiesta would want two G5 teams.

Orange ACC vs B10/SEC
Rose P12 vs B10
Sugar SEC vs B12
Fiesta G5 vs At-Large
Cotton & Peach Semi's

So, you're saying it's way-too-early NY6 projection time? Sweet.

Right now the semis would be Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan. But OSU plays Michigan, so drop one of those down a few spots and bring in Washington. Next up is Houston, who just lost to Navy.

So the semis Alabama, OSU/Michigan winner, Clemson, Washington.
Rose OSU/Michigan loser vs #15 Stanford
Sugar #8 Texas A&M vs #13 Baylor
Orange #7 Louisville vs Tennessee? Wisconsin? (SEC/B10 rotation rules come into play)
Fiesta #19 Boise STate vs #10 Miami

I was correct, the COTTON is hosting the G5 team this year, the Peach and Fiesta are the Playoff games.

Concerning the Orange ... it must take the highest ranked available B1G or SEC team (ND is out of the picture, obviously) this year, meaning schools that aren't in the playoffs or the Rose or Sugar.

With the Orange, does it absolutely have to take the top ranked? I am kind of curious how that works.

I know that was a guiding principle along with making sure it got at least 3 Big Ten and 3 SEC over an 8 year time frame. Long run it might be better taking a #9 Wisconsin over a #8 Tennessee just to keep the current representation even. That said, there has only been one choice so far, so it might be required to just take highest (haven't seen a definite rule).

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...-agreement


It is the highest unless one of the conferences has met the limit of 3. ND is could be picked if it was high enough but they are only limited to 2 appearances and ND isn't guaranteed an appearance. There is flexibility if it would be a rematch, thus sending a team that was supposed to be picked to another Access Bowl

Gosh after reading all this, could it be that Houston might be a top 10 team and only go to the sun bowl or even worse...

Hard to see Stanford in the NY6 bowls, not after those losses. Try Utah instead.

If Houston ends up ranked top 10 in the final CFP rankings, I would almost have to say that they'd go to the Cotton bowl vs the highest ranked G5 champ.

With how many of the "top 12" already spoken for either by CFP, or contract bowls ...

(10-11-2016 07:11 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:01 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-08-2016 10:01 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Only problem this is the worst year for at-large spots. More than likely only one spot will be available. I doubt Fiesta would want two G5 teams.

Orange ACC vs B10/SEC
Rose P12 vs B10
Sugar SEC vs B12
Fiesta G5 vs At-Large
Cotton & Peach Semi's

So, you're saying it's way-too-early NY6 projection time? Sweet.

Right now the semis would be Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan. But OSU plays Michigan, so drop one of those down a few spots and bring in Washington. Next up is Houston, who just lost to Navy.

So the semis Alabama, OSU/Michigan winner, Clemson, Washington.
Rose OSU/Michigan loser vs #15 Stanford
Sugar #8 Texas A&M vs #13 Baylor
Orange #7 Louisville vs Tennessee? Wisconsin? (SEC/B10 rotation rules come into play)
Fiesta #19 Boise STate vs #10 Miami

I was correct, the COTTON is hosting the G5 team this year, the Peach and Fiesta are the Playoff games.

Concerning the Orange ... it must take the highest ranked available B1G or SEC team (ND is out of the picture, obviously) this year, meaning schools that aren't in the playoffs or the Rose or Sugar.

With the Orange, does it absolutely have to take the top ranked? I am kind of curious how that works.

I know that was a guiding principle along with making sure it got at least 3 Big Ten and 3 SEC over an 8 year time frame. Long run it might be better taking a #9 Wisconsin over a #8 Tennessee just to keep the current representation even. That said, there has only been one choice so far, so it might be required to just take highest (haven't seen a definite rule).

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...-agreement


It is the highest unless one of the conferences has met the limit of 3. ND is could be picked if it was high enough but they are only limited to 2 appearances and ND isn't guaranteed an appearance. There is flexibility if it would be a rematch, thus sending a team that was supposed to be picked to another Access Bowl

One thing that is interesting about this flexibility is that it is to my knowledge the sole instance where one of the NY6 bowls itself has this power. In the cases of the other NY6 Bowls, any flexibility in pairing up teams lies solely with the CFP committee, the bowls have no say.

But in the case of the Orange Bowl's contract, the bowl itself has the flexibility to decide if a rematch would create an undesirable matchup and pass over a higher ranked team for a lower ranked team.

Of course the Orange must do that subject to the other constraints of the contract, like ND appearing no more than twice and the SEC and B1G each appearing at least three times, but within those parameters it can make such a move.

Yes, for example, using the Orange Bowl. Let's say Clemson and VT play in the championship game. Clemson wins and goes 13-0. VT ends up with the record of 11-2 and Louisville ends up with 11-1 seating in the top 6. The ACC and Orange could pick VT since they were the runner up even though Louisville would be the higher ranked team. Allowing Louisville to be available for the Access at-large.

Question: if the highest ranked Big Ten, PAC, SEC, or ACC non-champion is not the CCG runner-up, do they miss out on the Rose, Sugar, or Orange bowls??

(assuming the champ of those four go to the CFP)

(10-11-2016 08:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:11 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:01 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2016 08:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  So, you're saying it's way-too-early NY6 projection time? Sweet.

Right now the semis would be Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan. But OSU plays Michigan, so drop one of those down a few spots and bring in Washington. Next up is Houston, who just lost to Navy.

So the semis Alabama, OSU/Michigan winner, Clemson, Washington.
Rose OSU/Michigan loser vs #15 Stanford
Sugar #8 Texas A&M vs #13 Baylor
Orange #7 Louisville vs Tennessee? Wisconsin? (SEC/B10 rotation rules come into play)
Fiesta #19 Boise STate vs #10 Miami

I was correct, the COTTON is hosting the G5 team this year, the Peach and Fiesta are the Playoff games.

Concerning the Orange ... it must take the highest ranked available B1G or SEC team (ND is out of the picture, obviously) this year, meaning schools that aren't in the playoffs or the Rose or Sugar.

With the Orange, does it absolutely have to take the top ranked? I am kind of curious how that works.

I know that was a guiding principle along with making sure it got at least 3 Big Ten and 3 SEC over an 8 year time frame. Long run it might be better taking a #9 Wisconsin over a #8 Tennessee just to keep the current representation even. That said, there has only been one choice so far, so it might be required to just take highest (haven't seen a definite rule).

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...-agreement


It is the highest unless one of the conferences has met the limit of 3. ND is could be picked if it was high enough but they are only limited to 2 appearances and ND isn't guaranteed an appearance. There is flexibility if it would be a rematch, thus sending a team that was supposed to be picked to another Access Bowl

One thing that is interesting about this flexibility is that it is to my knowledge the sole instance where one of the NY6 bowls itself has this power. In the cases of the other NY6 Bowls, any flexibility in pairing up teams lies solely with the CFP committee, the bowls have no say.

But in the case of the Orange Bowl's contract, the bowl itself has the flexibility to decide if a rematch would create an undesirable matchup and pass over a higher ranked team for a lower ranked team.

Of course the Orange must do that subject to the other constraints of the contract, like ND appearing no more than twice and the SEC and B1G each appearing at least three times, but within those parameters it can make such a move.

In regards to the 'flexibility' I have to think that would only apply to if ND was an option and if the SEC team was a selection. Being that the ACC has the ND scheduling agreement and the SEC and ACC regularly play against each other. I would think that wouldn't be the case against a Big 10 team.
But, you are correct the Orange has some say to what the CFP committee picks to the Orange Bowl.

(10-11-2016 07:41 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  Gosh after reading all this, could it be that Houston might be a top 10 team and only go to the sun bowl or even worse...

Yep, life as a G5 baby

My guess is the CFP committee is never going to have 2 schools from the same conference in their 4 team playoff. They say they emphasize conference champions, but will end up with the best four regardless. I throw the flag and say they will always use the former as the excuse.

(10-11-2016 08:30 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Question: if the highest ranked Big Ten, PAC, SEC, or ACC non-champion is not the CCG runner-up, do they miss out on the Rose, Sugar, or Orange bowls??

(assuming the champ of those four go to the CFP)

No, the CFP rankings control who goes to the Contract Bowls and they do not have to consider whether a team is a CCG runner-up or not.

For example, in years where the Rose Bowl is not a playoff bowl, the Rose Bowl's contract with the B1G and PAC calls for it to match a PAC and B1G team, and those teams will be the highest-ranked available PAC and B1G teams (meaning highest ranked not in the playoffs) as determined by the CFP committee.

So considering 2015, if after the B1G CCG last year, the CFP had decided to rank Ohio State above Iowa in their final rankings, then Ohio State would have gone to the Rose Bowl, and Iowa to the Fiesta Bowl. And the CFP has the power to do that. They do not have to rank the CCG runner-up as the second-highest rated team from a conference.

E.g., last year FSU was ranked #9 in the final CFP rankings and UNC was ranked #10, even though UNC was the ACC- CCG runner-up and FSU did not play in the CCG.

(10-11-2016 08:24 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Yes, for example, using the Orange Bowl. Let's say Clemson and VT play in the championship game. Clemson wins and goes 13-0. VT ends up with the record of 11-2 and Louisville ends up with 11-1 seating in the top 6. The ACC and Orange could pick VT since they were the runner up even though Louisville would be the higher ranked team. Allowing Louisville to be available for the Access at-large.

IMO, there are a few things mistaken about your scenario. First, the contract says the discretion is solely that of the Orange Bowl. The ACC would have no formal say. Now could the ACC lobby the Orange to do something? Sure, but so could the B1G or SEC or ND. But the actual decision is the Orange Bowl's alone.

Second, the flexibility pertains only to the ACC teams opponent, not the ACC team. The ACC team is set in stone, it is the highest-ranked available ACC team, which in your scenario is Louisville. The only flexibility would be in possibly passing over the highest-ranked B1G/SEC/Notre Dame team, if that team happened to play Louisville in the regular season.

Which raises a third issue - the contract says that the Orange Bowl itself can only deviate from the CFP rankings for one reason, to avoid a regular season rematch. It can't do it for any other reason, including giving the ACC a better position for other Access Bowls, etc. Only to avoid a rematch.

(10-11-2016 08:48 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:41 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  Gosh after reading all this, could it be that Houston might be a top 10 team and only go to the sun bowl or even worse...

Yep, life as a G5 baby

ACtually, it would take a lot of heavy lifting to get an 11-1 Houston into the Sun Bowl--that's a PAC-Big 12ACC matchup. (I haven't looked at projections, is the Big 12 desperately short on bowl-eligible teams?)

(10-11-2016 09:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Which raises a third issue - the contract says that the Orange Bowl itself can only deviate from the CFP rankings for one reason, to avoid a regular season rematch. It can't do it for any other reason, including giving the ACC a better position for other Access Bowls, etc. Only to avoid a rematch.

Or to meet the requirements of the SEC/Big Ten/ND rotation. (In other words, if the SEC or Big Ten or Notre Dame has used up its ORange Bowl spots.)

Quo has the best grasp on the Orange Bowl of anyone (assuming I understand it myself!).

I. The Orange Bowl MUST select a Big Ten team 3 times and an SEC team 3 times. It MAY select Notre Dame up to 2 times, or never (if the SEC and B1G use up all 8 slots). This would only force the situation in the final 3 years of the contract, however.

II. The bowl MUST take the highest-ranked ACC team which is not in the playoffs. That is not necessarily the runner-up; the exact team is determined by the CFP Committee rankings, as already cited (for example, last year FSU was chosed by the committee over UNC).

III. The bowl must take the highest-ranked SEC, B1G, or Notre Dame team not in the playoffs, UNLESS that would create a rematch (and there may be some other exceptions allowed, so I don't want to be dogmatic).

The only conceivable situations where that last rule would come into place this year are:
1. VT is selected from the ACC, and the highest-available SEC team is Tennessee, or
2. Clemson is selected from the ACC, and (somehow) the highest-available SEC team is Auburn
(There could've been similar scenarios involving UNC/Georgia, Pitt/Penn State, FSU/OleMiss or FSU/Florida, or several ACC teams with Notre Dame, but none of those appear likely now).

NOTE: If either Tennessee or Auburn were passed up by the Orange Bowl, they would automatically go to the Cotton Bowl, if I understand correctly.

quo,

Thanks, fair enough.

Regardless, I feel that -- barring disasters, which are certainly possible -- Washington, Baylor, the ACC top two, and the top three from the Big Ten and SEC, at the least will be in the "top 12". So that's already ten of the "top 12".

So if you say top team from PAC, ACC, Big Ten, SEC in the CFP, Rose takes Washington and Big Ten #2, Sugar takes Baylor and SEC #2, Orange takes ACC #2 and one of Big Ten/SEC #3's, that should leave the Big Ten/SEC #3 left out of the Orange to be taken by the Cotton to play the G5 access team.

Meaning that I'm not certain if the PAC #2, Big 12 #2, or ACC #3 will be in the "top 12".

(10-11-2016 09:31 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:48 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:41 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  Gosh after reading all this, could it be that Houston might be a top 10 team and only go to the sun bowl or even worse...

Yep, life as a G5 baby

ACtually, it would take a lot of heavy lifting to get an 11-1 Houston into the Sun Bowl--that's a PAC-Big 12ACC matchup. (I haven't looked at projections, is the Big 12 desperately short on bowl-eligible teams?)

(10-11-2016 09:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Which raises a third issue - the contract says that the Orange Bowl itself can only deviate from the CFP rankings for one reason, to avoid a regular season rematch. It can't do it for any other reason, including giving the ACC a better position for other Access Bowls, etc. Only to avoid a rematch.

Or to meet the requirements of the SEC/Big Ten/ND rotation. (In other words, if the SEC or Big Ten or Notre Dame has used up its ORange Bowl spots.)

Yes, but that's not a "deviation", because in that case the Orange has no discretion, the terms of the contract would mandate that say a lower-ranked SEC team play over a higher-ranked Notre Dame, if ND has already appeared twice.

(10-11-2016 09:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Quo has the best grasp on the Orange Bowl of anyone (assuming I understand it myself!).

I. The Orange Bowl MUST select a Big Ten team 3 times and an SEC team 3 times. It MAY select Notre Dame up to 2 times, or never (if the SEC and B1G use up all 8 slots). This would only force the situation in the final 3 years of the contract, however.

II. The bowl MUST take the highest-ranked ACC team which is not in the playoffs. That is not necessarily the runner-up; the exact team is determined by the CFP Committee rankings, as already cited (for example, last year FSU was chosed by the committee over UNC).

III. The bowl must take the highest-ranked SEC, B1G, or Notre Dame team not in the playoffs, UNLESS that would create a rematch (and there may be some other exceptions allowed, so I don't want to be dogmatic).

The only conceivable situations where that last rule would come into place this year are:
1. VT is selected from the ACC, and the highest-available SEC team is Tennessee, or
2. Clemson is selected from the ACC, and (somehow) the highest-available SEC team is Auburn
(There could've been similar scenarios involving UNC/Georgia, Pitt/Penn State, FSU/OleMiss or FSU/Florida, or several ACC teams with Notre Dame, but none of those appear likely now).

NOTE: If either Tennessee or Auburn were passed up by the Orange Bowl, they would automatically go to the Cotton Bowl, if I understand correctly.

You are correct on all counts, except that (a) as far as we know there are no other exceptions that would allow the OB to pass over the highest rated SEC/B1G/ND team. They can only do so to avoid a regular season rematch.

Also, (b) the bolded statement is fuzzy. The contract says "The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement."

So, unlike conference champions who are displaced by their bowl being a playoff bowl, who are absolutely guaranteed another safe landing spot in an NY6 bowl, a team skipped by the OB could theoretically be left out of the NY6.

Yeah, there's no requirement to place the "left out" Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame team into an access bowl slot --- unless that team also happens to be the highest ranked remaining team.

Then yes, they would go to the Cotton bowl this year.

(10-11-2016 11:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Quo has the best grasp on the Orange Bowl of anyone (assuming I understand it myself!).

I. The Orange Bowl MUST select a Big Ten team 3 times and an SEC team 3 times. It MAY select Notre Dame up to 2 times, or never (if the SEC and B1G use up all 8 slots). This would only force the situation in the final 3 years of the contract, however.

II. The bowl MUST take the highest-ranked ACC team which is not in the playoffs. That is not necessarily the runner-up; the exact team is determined by the CFP Committee rankings, as already cited (for example, last year FSU was chosed by the committee over UNC).

III. The bowl must take the highest-ranked SEC, B1G, or Notre Dame team not in the playoffs, UNLESS that would create a rematch (and there may be some other exceptions allowed, so I don't want to be dogmatic).

The only conceivable situations where that last rule would come into place this year are:
1. VT is selected from the ACC, and the highest-available SEC team is Tennessee, or
2. Clemson is selected from the ACC, and (somehow) the highest-available SEC team is Auburn
(There could've been similar scenarios involving UNC/Georgia, Pitt/Penn State, FSU/OleMiss or FSU/Florida, or several ACC teams with Notre Dame, but none of those appear likely now).

NOTE: If either Tennessee or Auburn were passed up by the Orange Bowl, they would automatically go to the Cotton Bowl, if I understand correctly.

You are correct on all counts, except that (a) as far as we know there are no other exceptions that would allow the OB to pass over the highest rated SEC/B1G/ND team. They can only do so to avoid a regular season rematch.

Also, (b) the bolded statement is fuzzy. The contract says "The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement."

So, unlike conference champions who are displaced by their bowl being a playoff bowl, who are absolutely guaranteed another safe landing spot in an NY6 bowl, a team skipped by the OB could theoretically be left out of the NY6.

Technically true, but it assumes that Pac-12 #3 or Big XII #2 is ranked higher than the skipped SEC or B1G team (possible, but not very likely THIS year).