(10-04-2016 02:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Only Texas and Oklahoma will leave. Oklahoma is eying SEC and Big 10, and Texas is eying the ACC. I don't see any others will leave because they are not wanted.

I know that I've talked about supporting SEC expansion in the past, but, to be honest, I really am against SEC expansion now for many of the same reasons that the schools that make up the MWC left the 16 team WAC. There is a loss of rivalries!! There really and truly is. The SEC has already lost Auburn-Tennessee, Florida-Alabama, and Georgia-LSU because of expansion to 14 teams. And you can go years without playing some teams in the conference as well! Even though TAMU joined the SEC, my UGa Bulldogs have yet to play them. And I couldn't tell you when the last time that Georgia played Arkansas. Yeah, there would probably be more $$'s to start with going to 16 teams, but once you really have that format for awhile, tv executives would gradually start backing away from it, because a lot of the content just wouldn't be worth showing. I love the SEC as it is right now; just say no to expansion!! Let the Big Ten expand and ruin their rivalries & conference. It will just mean that the Big Ten will be doomed to failure and break up in the future, and the SEC will still be standing tall at 14 teams.

(10-07-2016 10:27 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 02:34 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  

(10-06-2016 06:21 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  But by not expanding, the networks are more amenable to finding a home for the other 7 schools in 2025.

Why would the networks give a rip about the other 7 schools? What do they owe the other schools? This is a business world. Money talks.

The networks want the most bang for the buck...and that means consolidation. If there are fewer "power conferences" to deal with, they can more easily create a product that is palatable for TV. I know this isn't realistic...but if the networks could get 32 elite teams into one conference (ala the NFL!), they would do it. Yes, it might be too expensive for one network to purchase...but they'd all know they'd have a high quality product (like FOX, NBC, ESPN currently do with the NFL).

Since THAT is not happening, they'd rather consolidate. Texas/Ou/Kansas are the best of the Big 12...so they'll definitely get spots. After that, it FULLY depends on what the other "power conferences" want to fill out their dance cards. But NO, the networks are not concerned about little Iowa State and Texas Tech getting into the Power 4.

Why would the networks care about consolidating? There is no dispute that Fox and ESPN did NOT want the Pac 16. So your assumption is that they want now exactly the opposite of what they wanted 5 years ago. Its a tenuous assumption.

Fewer conferences give the conferences more clout. That is what Pac 12 commissioner Scott has been working towards.

I don't have the link, but there was an article some time ago quoting TV network execs as saying the last thing they want is consolidation.

Which is exactly the intent of the P5 if they break away, and negotiate as one TV entity. B/c it gives them more leverage. The opposite of what the networks want.

(10-07-2016 10:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  Leaving a bunch of schools and states behind is a political black eye as well that the rest of the conferences might not want to deal with. Utah's senator basically got the BCS expanded to include the non-BCS conferences.

Dumping The Big 12 would move at least one Texas, one Oklahoma and one Kansas program into a Power 4 league, so those states would be covered. Iowa would be represented in The Big Ten. The only state that would lose its place in a Power 4 league would be West Virginia. I personally don't have a problem with that.

As for Utah, Orrin Hatch accomplished nothing. The PAC deciding to expand saved Utah. If Chris Dodd and Mitch McConnell, both Louisville grads, both congressional leaders couldn't get UofL in, a senator from Utah is not going to make anything happen by himself.
CJ

(10-07-2016 11:08 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 10:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  Leaving a bunch of schools and states behind is a political black eye as well that the rest of the conferences might not want to deal with. Utah's senator basically got the BCS expanded to include the non-BCS conferences.

Dumping The Big 12 would move at least one Texas, one Oklahoma and one Kansas program into a Power 4 league, so those states would be covered. Iowa would be represented in The Big Ten. The only state that would lose its place in a Power 4 league would be West Virginia. I personally don't have a problem with that.

As for Utah, Orrin Hatch accomplished nothing. The PAC deciding to expand saved Utah. If Chris Dodd and Mitch McConnell, both Louisville grads, both congressional leaders couldn't get UofL in, a senator from Utah is not going to make anything happen by himself.
CJ

Jim, I don't think UT will leave for another conference, b/c the TX legislature won't let then go and strand TTU, Baylor and TCU. And if UH is invited, them, too.

(10-07-2016 11:18 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Jim, I don't think UT will leave for another conference, b/c the TX legislature won't let then go and strand TTU, Baylor and TCU. And if UH is invited, them, too.

I cant speak for Texas politics but they already left TCU and Houston behind once before along with Rice and SMU. I am curious how long Texas will languish in The Big 12 while A&M does well in The SEC.

The headline from CBS sports says it all:

"It's Oklahoma-Texas week and Texas A&M-Tennessee matters more nationally"

(10-07-2016 10:04 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  van,

Sorry, but I don't see how you're making a counter-argument to my argument.

If things are uncertain, then the best thing to do -- for the Big 12, the networks, and UTexas & OU -- is to just wait a few more years, before extending the GoR.


And so, that has nothing to do with expansion today.

That's fine. And maybe on OCT 17th the B12 will surprise me by announcing two new members. But, I don't see how the other members want to expand and reduce their access to games in Texas and Oklahoma all for some nebulous idea that maybe UT and OU hang around beyond 2025.

- If they don't expand, that does not mean the GoR won't be extended!
- And conversely, it's perfectly plausible that expansion could be in preparation for UT and OU leaving at the end of the GoR!


It's so obvious to me that expansion and the GoR have nothing to do with each other. I've pretty much shown that every which way. I don't understand why you cling to the idea.

(10-07-2016 11:48 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 11:18 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Jim, I don't think UT will leave for another conference, b/c the TX legislature won't let then go and strand TTU, Baylor and TCU. And if UH is invited, them, too.

I cant speak for Texas politics but they already left TCU and Houston behind once before along with Rice and SMU. I am curious how long Texas will languish in The Big 12 while A&M does well in The SEC.

The headline from CBS sports says it all:

"It's Oklahoma-Texas week and Texas A&M-Tennessee matters more nationally"

Times have changed. The money difference and prestige are now life and death. Before, it didn't matter.

And how is Texas "languishing?" They make $30M a year in conference distribution for Tiers 1 and 2, and another $15M average over the contract for the LHN. That's $45M a year right now, more than ANY SEC team makes, b/c their contract includes all T3 TV rights.

And it's not like A&M is going to CCGs and the CFP in the SEC West yet. They rarely ever will with Bama, Auburn and LSU in their division. Even if they won the West, then they have to beat TN, FL or GA. Texas has a MUCH better chance to reach the playoffs through the Big 12.

(10-07-2016 10:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 02:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Only Texas and Oklahoma will leave. Oklahoma is eying SEC and Big 10, and Texas is eying the ACC. I don't see any others will leave because they are not wanted.

I know that I've talked about supporting SEC expansion in the past, but, to be honest, I really am against SEC expansion now for many of the same reasons that the schools that make up the MWC left the 16 team WAC. There is a loss of rivalries!! There really and truly is. The SEC has already lost Auburn-Tennessee, Florida-Alabama, and Georgia-LSU because of expansion to 14 teams. And you can go years without playing some teams in the conference as well! Even though TAMU joined the SEC, my UGa Bulldogs have yet to play them. And I couldn't tell you when the last time that Georgia played Arkansas. Yeah, there would probably be more $$'s to start with going to 16 teams, but once you really have that format for awhile, tv executives would gradually start backing away from it, because a lot of the content just wouldn't be worth showing. I love the SEC as it is right now; just say no to expansion!! Let the Big Ten expand and ruin their rivalries & conference. It will just mean that the Big Ten will be doomed to failure and break up in the future, and the SEC will still be standing tall at 14 teams.

I don't think you're alone in your sentiments. And I think this sentiment is only growing.

And as much as it is fun to say the Big XII will disappear, it's just as likely they stand pat, BECAUSE the other conferences are fine with where they are.

Standing pat at 14 is nothing like standing pat at 10.

(10-07-2016 10:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 02:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Only Texas and Oklahoma will leave. Oklahoma is eying SEC and Big 10, and Texas is eying the ACC. I don't see any others will leave because they are not wanted.

I know that I've talked about supporting SEC expansion in the past, but, to be honest, I really am against SEC expansion now for many of the same reasons that the schools that make up the MWC left the 16 team WAC. There is a loss of rivalries!! There really and truly is. The SEC has already lost Auburn-Tennessee, Florida-Alabama, and Georgia-LSU because of expansion to 14 teams. And you can go years without playing some teams in the conference as well! Even though TAMU joined the SEC, my UGa Bulldogs have yet to play them. And I couldn't tell you when the last time that Georgia played Arkansas. Yeah, there would probably be more $$'s to start with going to 16 teams, but once you really have that format for awhile, tv executives would gradually start backing away from it, because a lot of the content just wouldn't be worth showing. I love the SEC as it is right now; just say no to expansion!! Let the Big Ten expand and ruin their rivalries & conference. It will just mean that the Big Ten will be doomed to failure and break up in the future, and the SEC will still be standing tall at 14 teams.

Fair points but it doesn't help that SEC doesn't have 9 conf games. That way you would play everyone more often.