(10-03-2016 04:11 PM)NoDak Wrote:  NDSU could easily attract 30k right now, maybe more, especially for FBS games at home.

...

This is where I see BYU-Idaho helping the WAC or other conferences when they finally resume intercollegiate sports. I really think BYU-I would be averaging 30K for football and 10K+ for hoops if they were Div I. That would plug a need for another western team in an area where the density of FCS and FBS teams are low. It may be part of the solution for the WAC or a Big Sky if half go FBS and half stay FCS.

Sica,

So cut Tennis now (both M/W) and WGolf now. When MGolf endowment runs out, cut that.

The rest fit nicely in the Summit. W Soccer and W Softball: you don't need fancy facilities for those. Just a field with some metal bleachers, and a softball diamond with some metal bleachers. Those are just to get participation numbers up.

Montana AD denies any interest or participation in FBS WAC plans but leaves the door open a tiny crack: http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colleg...02a51.html

Really? That was leaving the door open a crack?

More like slamming the door shut and then yelling from the other side "don't knock on my door again, unless something serious happens!"

Probably a better assessment. Importantly, he says he hasn't talked to Idaho's AD or the WAC about it. This is basically where Montana has been for the past 2 decades -- not interested but ready if the situation dramatically changes.

Yeah, I don't really see what more preparing they have to do. If the day comes where Montana needs to sponsor 85 scholarship football, I imagine where they have like one of those fire extinguisher things with a "break in case of emergency" tag on it, which contains the plan signed off by boosters from 1996.

The article confirms two things most of us already surmised. First, the WAC in fact can resurrect itself as an FBS conference if it has eight full members playing football. Second, there is no currently active plan to do this since Montana isn't talking to the WAC about joining and other western FCS schools aren't going to make a WAC move without Montana.

Sounds like the chicken and egg scenario that it has always been.

Montana: no go unless confirmed interest from everyone else.
Everyone else: no go unless confirmed interest from Montana.

(10-07-2016 02:29 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The article confirms two things most of us already surmised. First, the WAC in fact can resurrect itself as an FBS conference if it has eight full members playing football. Second, there is no currently active plan to do this since Montana isn't talking to the WAC about joining and other western FCS schools aren't going to make a WAC move without Montana.

The AD doesn't have confirmed plans to move to FBS, but he acknowledged that he was preparing for it eventually. AD's don't make conference or division changes, Presidents do.

For all we know, the AD could have said falsehoods. All AD's always tell the truth though.

The sportswriters should have talked to Montana President Engstrom, not the AD. Big 12 reporters know that what an AD says doesn't mean squat about expansion.

Translation of post #149:

"I can always conjure a way out of being backed into a corner, via hand-waving."

(10-07-2016 02:29 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The article confirms two things most of us already surmised. First, the WAC in fact can resurrect itself as an FBS conference if it has eight full members playing football. Second, there is no currently active plan to do this since Montana isn't talking to the WAC about joining and other western FCS schools aren't going to make a WAC move without Montana.

I think the date of the emails is the missing key. I suspect they are a few years old and now the WAC had reach passed the time it could be a FBS conference.
Even if that was true, they basically need 6 MW schools to leave and that isn't happening.

(10-07-2016 03:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sounds like the chicken and egg scenario that it has always been.

Montana: no go unless confirmed interest from everyone else.
Everyone else: no go unless confirmed interest from Montana.

Who are these "everyone else"? NMSU, Idaho...

The problem with a WAC resurgence as devised by Fullerton is for a school like Montana there is no incentive to move. Which "like" schools would they be with? Idaho, NMSU, MSU? Schools like NDSU and SDSU have openly stated they are not interested. USD can't afford it and it would seem that neither can UND. Who else do you have? A small group of BSC schools Montana are already in a conference with. Schools who are struggling to compete at the upper level of FCS and one or two start up FB programs. Not a very exciting move for the Griz.

Montana will only move up if it is to the MWC. An MWC move is a big step up and a positive step up for Montana. A move to a new FBS WAC is not and because of that fact alone a new WAC will not be able to draw Montana into the fold.

(10-07-2016 03:35 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 03:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sounds like the chicken and egg scenario that it has always been.

Montana: no go unless confirmed interest from everyone else.
Everyone else: no go unless confirmed interest from Montana.

Who are these "everyone else"? NMSU, Idaho...

The problem with a WAC resurgence as devised by Fullerton is for a school like Montana there is no incentive to move. Which "like" schools would they be with? Idaho, NMSU, MSU? Schools like NDSU and SDSU have openly stated they are not interested. USD can't afford it and it would seem that neither can UND. Who else do you have? A small group of BSC schools Montana are already in a conference with. Schools who are struggling to compete at the upper level of FCS and one or two start up FB programs. Not a very exciting move for the Griz.

Montana will only move up if it is to the MWC. An MWC move is a big step up and a positive step up for Montana. A move to a new FBS WAC is not and because of that fact alone a new WAC will not be able to draw Montana into the fold.

Ding Ding Ding

(10-07-2016 03:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 02:29 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The article confirms two things most of us already surmised. First, the WAC in fact can resurrect itself as an FBS conference if it has eight full members playing football. Second, there is no currently active plan to do this since Montana isn't talking to the WAC about joining and other western FCS schools aren't going to make a WAC move without Montana.

I think the date of the emails is the missing key. I suspect they are a few years old and now the WAC had reach passed the time it could be a FBS conference.
Even if that was true, they basically need 6 MW schools to leave and that isn't happening.

There was a 2 year limitation in the NCAA rules. And the playoff contract has pretty much defined which conferences are in.

"Asked if a return of the WAC — which would need eight football members to resurrect itself as an FBS league — would change his thinking, Haslam deferred, saying he wouldn't try guessing the future."

Never a yes; never a no: Politicians and ADs.

The P5 need to worry about Anti-trust lawsuits as well. You have several states that do not have a public school in a P5 conference, and you have states that want more schools in their states to be in a P5 conference.

Hawaii gets a deal with the PAC 12 to play all sports and play 5 to 6 games in football against PAC 12 schools. Alaska can join the PAC 12 to balance out the conference for Olympics sports.

San Diego State
Fresno State
UNR
UNLV
BYU
Montana
Montana State
Wyoming
Colorado State
Air Force
New Mexico
UTEP
Northern Arizona

Central North:
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Wichita State
Northern Illinois or Missouri State

Central South:
Houston
SMU
UTSA
Tulane or La. Tech
Memphis
Southern Miss.

East North:
UMass.
Maine
UConn.
New Hampshire
URI
Buffalo

East South:
Navy
Army
Cincinnati
Stony Brook
Delaware
Temple


UCF, East Carolina, USF and some others could get invited to a P5 conference in the future.

jacks,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying NDSU secretly wants to go FBS and that their statements are lies.

I was just saying that it's the same old game for people who try to present Montana's + Idaho + NM St + Dakotas: basically you can't get a Montana or NDSU to take a huge step up and lead the pack, on such a (long-shot) charge.

Everyone wants a sure thing, like an invite to the MWC or MAC.

(10-07-2016 03:25 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Translation of post #149:

"I can always conjure a way out of being backed into a corner, via hand-waving."

Translation:

Yeah, we should just listen to MplsBison, dbackjon, and jacksfan29, as they simply have more info and intellect than University Presidents.

(10-07-2016 03:38 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 03:35 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 03:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sounds like the chicken and egg scenario that it has always been.

Montana: no go unless confirmed interest from everyone else.
Everyone else: no go unless confirmed interest from Montana.

Who are these "everyone else"? NMSU, Idaho...

The problem with a WAC resurgence as devised by Fullerton is for a school like Montana there is no incentive to move. Which "like" schools would they be with? Idaho, NMSU, MSU? Schools like NDSU and SDSU have openly stated they are not interested. USD can't afford it and it would seem that neither can UND. Who else do you have? A small group of BSC schools Montana are already in a conference with. Schools who are struggling to compete at the upper level of FCS and one or two start up FB programs. Not a very exciting move for the Griz.

Montana will only move up if it is to the MWC. An MWC move is a big step up and a positive step up for Montana. A move to a new FBS WAC is not and because of that fact alone a new WAC will not be able to draw Montana into the fold.

Ding Ding Ding

If the Montanas are moving to the Mountain West, then the Mountain West won't be worth saving. It will be a shell of it's former self because everyone has left. There is no way the Montana's are getting into the Mountain West at this time.

If the Montanas had the balls to move up, they would have done so by now. They like being the big fish in a little (and I mean little) pond.

I believe the WAC FBS could happen without the Montanas. Leave them behind to stay with the Southern Utahs and Northern Colorados.

(10-07-2016 04:47 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 03:38 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 03:35 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(10-07-2016 03:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sounds like the chicken and egg scenario that it has always been.

Montana: no go unless confirmed interest from everyone else.
Everyone else: no go unless confirmed interest from Montana.

Who are these "everyone else"? NMSU, Idaho...

The problem with a WAC resurgence as devised by Fullerton is for a school like Montana there is no incentive to move. Which "like" schools would they be with? Idaho, NMSU, MSU? Schools like NDSU and SDSU have openly stated they are not interested. USD can't afford it and it would seem that neither can UND. Who else do you have? A small group of BSC schools Montana are already in a conference with. Schools who are struggling to compete at the upper level of FCS and one or two start up FB programs. Not a very exciting move for the Griz.

Montana will only move up if it is to the MWC. An MWC move is a big step up and a positive step up for Montana. A move to a new FBS WAC is not and because of that fact alone a new WAC will not be able to draw Montana into the fold.

Ding Ding Ding

If the Montanas are moving to the Mountain West, then the Mountain West won't be worth saving. It will be a shell of it's former self because everyone has left. There is no way the Montana's are getting into the Mountain West at this time.

If the Montanas had the balls to move up, they would have done so by now. They like being the big fish in a little (and I mean little) pond.

I believe the WAC FBS could happen without the Montanas. Leave them behind to stay with the Southern Utahs and Northern Colorados.

Depends on who was left in the MWC. If they lost a couple (say Colorado State and Boise State), the remains are still an attractive league.