Observer Wrote:O'Leary's parents apparently do not understand how their son would be a victim of racial hatred, because he held no such animus towards others. At least that is the inference I could draw from the quotes.

Observer, I know you are smarter than that. You know as well as I do that only people who feel that they need to prove they are not racists would make a statement like that.

GoGold Wrote:

Observer Wrote:

GoGold Wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about your family attending college here. They will certainly be safer in Hattiesburg at USM, than say in New Orleans at Tulane.

"Law and order is what keeps us in a civil society. Without it, we would have chaos."

So, you don't think what happened to O'Leary was chaotic?

"If this kid, and I remind you he is a kid, used a weapon such as a gun or a knife, I would feel differently. But there is no way that I believe his intention was to commit a murder when he made that kick to the head."

Hmmmmm?

"I could care less what a Tulane fan thinks about Bower. I just gave you the facts. His past speaks for itself."

Maybe it does. But just maybe, no-one was listening.

"I wouldn't worry too much about your family attending college here. They will certainly be safer in Hattiesburg at USM, than say in New Orleans at Tulane."

Why? Are you suggesting that they would be unsafe in New Orleans due to the chaos that exists there?

You must be a member of todays free left wing press. You are taking what was said out of context. That quote was about taking the law into your own hands. In some cases I might understand it, but would never support it. There is a difference.
If one refuses to "listen" to the past of Bower in this whole affair, then they in no way can make a decision based on the facts. Bowers program has not once been questioned by the NCAA, over the last 15 years plus. We have taken kids before with questionable backgrounds on both the basketball and football fields. Never anything as serious as this, but we have "taken" chances before.
And yes, I am suggesting the crime rates probably in EVERY catagory are higher in New Orleans than in Hattiesburg. Prove me wrong.

"You must be a member of todays free left wing press. You are taking what was said out of context. That quote was about taking the law into your own hands. In some cases I might understand it, but would never support it. There is a difference."

It was not out of context. It was a direct quote. And my question remains, do you not think O'Leary's killing was Chaotic? You stated that if people took the law into their own hands it would lead to chaos. I am simply pointed out that chaos already runs rampant in our society. I am also pointing out that, unlike you, I am not willing to sacrifice the protection of my family to a failed justice system. I am not willing to be one who runs for help crying. "please protect me from those big, bad, mean people. Boo, hoo, hoo!"

"If one refuses to "listen" to the past of Bower in this whole affair, then they in no way can make a decision based on the facts. Bowers program has not once been questioned by the NCAA, over the last 15 years plus. We have taken kids before with questionable backgrounds on both the basketball and football fields. Never anything as serious as this, but we have "taken" chances before."

Who has refused to listen. I'm saying that if this lastest action by Bower is an indication of his true character, then I, like many others, have been hoodwinked.

"And yes, I am suggesting the crime rates probably in EVERY catagory are higher in New Orleans than in Hattiesburg. Prove me wrong."

I think if you re-read my response, it has nothing to do with challenging the different crime rates of New Orleans vs. Hattiesburg. I was pointing out that you were referring to crime. Crime in a community is chaotic. A condition you claimed did not exist due to the exclusion of self-protection. You have thus proven yourself wrong.

uhmump95 Wrote:

Observer Wrote:O'Leary's parents apparently do not understand how their son would be a victim of racial hatred, because he held no such animus towards others. At least that is the inference I could draw from the quotes.

Observer, I know you are smarter than that. You know as well as I do that only people who feel that they need to prove they are not racists would make a statement like that.

Don't patronize. You and I both know that phrases such as, "only people who feel that they need to prove they are not racists would make a statement like that," are used to attempt to suspend rational debate. We know no such thing about people and why they comment. My observance of their comment was as valid as yours, based on information at hand. The fact that there were other assaults, by the same individuals, earlier in the evening lends credance to my opinion.

I am still asking for anyone to provide evidence as to the motive of the attacks.

How am I patronizing? You have proven to me in the past that you are a person who calls it straight the way they see it. I respect that and consider

I have never a had a white friend who had to openly declare to the world he has black friends. The reason being is that if you truly have a multicultural collection of friends, you do not have to proclaim it. People see you and know what type of friends that you have.

I agree though until some explanation comes from Raines or one of his fellow attackers, we do not know the real reason for the attack.

Ok, I'll accept that explanation and I apologize for the retort about patronizing. However, I do reserve my opinion (which is still open to clarification) on the reason for the comments from the family of the victim.

I am firm in my opposition to Raines coming to USM. The only factor that would change that opinion is if the O'Leary family gave it their ok. Anything less and I will always oppose it.
I do think Raines will come to USM, the heat will lessen and he will be accepted as long as he behaves like a model student.
One of my concerns is that outside of just being opposed to Raines getting a schloarship at USM based on my feelings of what is right and wrong, is that Bower is exposing our football team to an unneccessary risk. If God forbid Raines comes to USM and causes any harm to a USM student, then we are finished as a program. Why risk that for one player?
Make no mistake that is not my main reason for opposing Raines scholarship though.

Nugget's Ghost Wrote:I am firm in my opposition to Raines coming to USM. The only factor that would change that opinion is if the O'Leary family gave it their ok. Anything less and I will always oppose it.
I do think Raines will come to USM, the heat will lessen and he will be accepted as long as he behaves like a model student.
One of my concerns is that outside of just being opposed to Raines getting a schloarship at USM based on my feelings of what is right and wrong, is that Bower is exposing our football team to an unneccessary risk. If God forbid Raines comes to USM and causes any harm to a USM student, then we are finished as a program. Why risk that for one player?
Make no mistake that is not my main reason for opposing Raines scholarship though.

I can understand your point. Again I will point out that the kid was convicted and plead to involuntary manslaughter, a far cry from what many consider to be the same as murder. Has the O'Leary family raised hell from the plead or sentence? I am asking because I don't know.
I do not understand how this kid getting into trouble would finish us as a program? Cause harm, I agree, but finish us? And again I will point out the 15 years plus under Bowers tenture without a sniff from the NCAA. Have you stopped and thought maybe he knows more than you or I? After more than 15 year he has earned the benefit of doubt from me.

GoGold Wrote:

Nugget's Ghost Wrote:I am firm in my opposition to Raines coming to USM. The only factor that would change that opinion is if the O'Leary family gave it their ok. Anything less and I will always oppose it.
I do think Raines will come to USM, the heat will lessen and he will be accepted as long as he behaves like a model student.
One of my concerns is that outside of just being opposed to Raines getting a schloarship at USM based on my feelings of what is right and wrong, is that Bower is exposing our football team to an unneccessary risk. If God forbid Raines comes to USM and causes any harm to a USM student, then we are finished as a program. Why risk that for one player?
Make no mistake that is not my main reason for opposing Raines scholarship though.

I can understand your point. Again I will point out that the kid was convicted and plead to involuntary manslaughter, a far cry from what many consider to be the same as murder. Has the O'Leary family raised hell from the plead or sentence? I am asking because I don't know.
I do not understand how this kid getting into trouble would finish us as a program? Cause harm, I agree, but finish us? And again I will point out the 15 years plus under Bowers tenture without a sniff from the NCAA. Have you stopped and thought maybe he knows more than you or I? After more than 15 year he has earned the benefit of doubt from me.

Ok, maybe finish is too strong a word, but I believe it would cause some serious harm.

Nugget's Ghost Wrote:

GoGold Wrote:

Nugget's Ghost Wrote:I am firm in my opposition to Raines coming to USM. The only factor that would change that opinion is if the O'Leary family gave it their ok. Anything less and I will always oppose it.
I do think Raines will come to USM, the heat will lessen and he will be accepted as long as he behaves like a model student.
One of my concerns is that outside of just being opposed to Raines getting a schloarship at USM based on my feelings of what is right and wrong, is that Bower is exposing our football team to an unneccessary risk. If God forbid Raines comes to USM and causes any harm to a USM student, then we are finished as a program. Why risk that for one player?
Make no mistake that is not my main reason for opposing Raines scholarship though.

I can understand your point. Again I will point out that the kid was convicted and plead to involuntary manslaughter, a far cry from what many consider to be the same as murder. Has the O'Leary family raised hell from the plead or sentence? I am asking because I don't know.
I do not understand how this kid getting into trouble would finish us as a program? Cause harm, I agree, but finish us? And again I will point out the 15 years plus under Bowers tenture without a sniff from the NCAA. Have you stopped and thought maybe he knows more than you or I? After more than 15 year he has earned the benefit of doubt from me.

Ok, maybe finish is too strong a word, but I believe it would cause some serious harm.

Agreed. One thing for certain it has started some serious and often heated debate among Southern Miss fans. If it came to the point that taking kids like these began routine, then I would be troubled. Sooner or later it will bite you. But Bower, Thames and the G Man have to know the chance they are taking, and something is telling them to do it. I myself am the product of a second chance. I believe almost everybody deserves a second chance. There are exceptions ( Manson, Bundy etc.). I also know that Bower won't put up with one inch of trouble out the kid.

"And my question remains, do you not think O'Leary's killing was Chaotic?"

No I do not. If it was then this earth has been chaotic since its birth and will be until its end. Laws do not prevent crime. They deal with crime. As long as the vast majority of people live a "law and order" type life, we will have a civil, if imperfect society. If the vast majority decides to do as you suggest, and take the law into thier own hands, you will have complete chaos. You would have a world where bombings like the WTC would be commonplace, because they also believed what they were doing was right.

"I think if you re-read my response, it has nothing to do with challenging the different crime rates of New Orleans vs. Hattiesburg. I was pointing out that you were referring to crime. Crime in a community is chaotic. A condition you claimed did not exist due to the exclusion of self-protection. You have thus proven yourself wrong."

Wrong again my gumbo eating friend. Crime in a community is not chaotic. It is simply a fact of life. When crime overtakes a community, then and only then is it chaotic.

"Who has refused to listen. I'm saying that if this lastest action by Bower is an indication of his true character, then I, like many others, have been hoodwinked."

The past 15 years he has proven his character. Even if he is wrong this time, and that might wind up being the case, it should in no way erase the past 15 years. He has made his decision and he will stand by it. That is character, unlike the toads at KSU who recruited the kid until the kitchen got too hot and then abandoned him.
Again let the Southern Miss folks worry about it. It will have no reflection on your beloved Green Wave. And should he play, you can always say its because of thugs like Raines that we beat you.

To keep from beating a dead horse I'll simply respond that I could not disagree with your three previous more than any I have ever read. Pie in the sky B.S.

Observer Wrote:To keep from beating a dead horse I'll simply respond that I could not disagree with your three previous more than any I have ever read. Pie in the sky B.S.

That would certainly drive home my point. Your continued requests for a answer to a question is responded to with "pie in the eye BS". In the meantime, we will see you in the 'Burg for the baseball tour. I hope. And if you make it to upcoming football game, come by our little tailgate. Its on the corner of Hardy and Hwy 49, under the big oak tree, in the District. Ask for Greg.

GoGold Wrote:

Observer Wrote:To keep from beating a dead horse I'll simply respond that I could not disagree with your three previous more than any I have ever read.  Pie in the sky B.S.

That would certainly drive home my point. Your continued requests for a answer to a question is responded to with "pie in the eye BS". In the meantime, we will see you in the 'Burg for the baseball tour. I hope. And if you make it to upcoming football game, come by our little tailgate. Its on the corner of Hardy and Hwy 49, under the big oak tree, in the District. Ask for Greg.

Go Gold, the only question I asked was, "what was the motive for the assault?" You made no attempt to provide the answer. You merely offered apologetics for Coach Bower. The arguements on that have begun to go in circles. It is senseless to continue to re-hash the same arguements. So I simply respond that I wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view.

Thanks for the offer to visit your tailgate for football. I will certainly try to make it. But, please remind me as the season draws near. I will be making the trip to Hattiesburg for the tournament. It promises to be an excellent venue, great time and sportsmanship.