(09-21-2016 10:30 PM)WestGrayStreetOwl Wrote:  [quote='Tiki Owl' pid='13595852' dateline='1474432096']
While reading this thread a vision of Edmundson and Bailiff reading it and saying "Huh?" is in my head.

That's funny.

I even have a white coat just like John's.

(09-20-2016 10:06 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 08:13 PM)ruowls Wrote:  4) Name the play. As in, Right Bone 90 Downtown.

You bring up an interesting point. Your discussion about the smash route is textbook. Unfortunately, it is incorrect. This is where coaching makes a difference because it is all about what you emphasize and why you emphasize it. Your breakdown has all the elements but it is incorrectly applied.

Read #1) Deep middle safety. QB looks to see if over-the-top safety rolls over to the smash side. He does so not because of the smash route but because if the safety rolls over it brings the backside post into play. QB scans backside. If safety rolls, is backside receiver isolated. If yes, does receiver have inside leverage for a seam post? If yes, throw the ball. If no or receiver not isolated, look back to smash side.

Read #2) Deep sideline coverage. Is corner route over the deep coverage? If yes, throw the ball. If no, go to read #3.

Read #3) Has flat coverage sunk deep under corner route? If yes, go to read #4. If no, throw the ball to the sideline and under deep coverage (assumes receiver flattens corner route so that QB can throw under to sideline where only receiver can catch it.

Read #4) Backer/SS (hook/curl defender. QB finds throwing lane based on defender and receiver positioning. Receiver has to adjust in/curl route to create a passing lane for the QB.

To summarize, deep coverage doesn't cover in/curl route. Underneath coverage does. Everyone needs to know why they are doing what they are doing and how their actions fit into the global picture. The QB needs to recognize leverage opportunities by extrapolating vectors within the proper smash route algorithm and receivers create separation by doing the same.

I humbly pass the chalk back you.

i love offensive guys.....all of that reading takes time. you think we are going to line up and just sit there and let it happen....i'm giving you false reads, then i got a dline in your face, i'm going to sugar my lbs and press my cbs.....you see man, snap of the ball i'm bailing off the LOS at he cb position. you now think deep coverage cause i bailed, oops wrong...i only bailed for 7yd drop. this allows me get back to the corner route that you are thinking the wr is going to flatten on, but you just checked backside cause my safety was over the top, but now you come back to the check down the hitch but I KNOW that is your last read so i'm driving on it soon as your head comes back and i'm killing that WR's back.....lol...made a living doing this technique in cover 2. now meanwhile i've coached my backside LB that he has a 2.5 sec count then he does an add delayed blitz. so your OL has sorted my line stunts but they didn't take into account that the LB was delay blitzing now all that read the front then the back then back to the front gets a little more dicy.

now with that all being said.....ruowls you will come back with a great concept that will defeat what i just explained because you are great offensive mind. AND whoever had the chalk last wins.....lol.....

my main point is that although i played defense i studied offensive a lot so that i knew what you were doing as you were doing it. i knew when you gave me a curl by one i'm expecting seam/corner or out and up by #2. based off release of #2 it tells me what #1 is doing. we aren't making the secondary think at all. we aren't making them freeze their feet in a little bit. double moves, adjusting routes and finding holes, rub routes, true combo routes that stress the secondary and allow for them to have some miscommunication. i was coaching during the advent of the jet sweep game. they do that to pull safeties wide to open the middle of the field and or get them to come down hill and fit, if you don't do that then you are using a LB which means i can run up the gut(theoretically). we aren't even doing that. we aren't using that concept the way it is meant...AT ALL. we run into the teeth of the defense waiting for one of our backs to break one loose because they ran over the whole team or make an heisman like move to get to the second level. on the outside we are so basic its maddening. i mean these kids are at RICE. can we not get some higher level thinking going on here?

lastly my statement still stands i dont see the talent at wr that is going to pop the top of the defense. regardless of routes and concepts you need a 4.3 guy that the secondary is like "oh crap we have to back up a little bit cause he'll get behind us". you want that guy that the cb wants to play press coverage because its a challenge not because they know they'll win. our wrs don't scare anyone therefore they pin their ears back upfront and say "sic 'em"(no pun intended....or maybe there was....lol).

basically i'd like to win games and look better than this while losing some games. there seemed to be a mindset by the coaches that we weren't going to win and we didn't want to do anything that would tip our hand to our talent level or playing calling for conference. its like we are playing for a 6-5 bowl....we are we not saying we are going out there to shock the world? what i saw from coaching, not the players, is that we were not highly interested in winning the game.... we wanted to survive the game and if we won....cool...we managed that game instead of coaching our asses off in that game.....jmo


GO OWLS....see i know where the shift key is......i just don't like using it.....slows me down....hahaha

(09-20-2016 11:11 AM)ruowls Wrote:  You crack me up.

+1

(09-20-2016 11:11 AM)ruowls Wrote:  Fortunately, there is this thing called a synapse. It allows for the communication of brain cells with one another. The space is only a mere 7nm. The flow of a neurotransmitter across this space and subsequent depolarization of the next cell takes very little time (milliseconds). In other words, I can think a whole lot faster than you can run.

And, up until this point, I thought you were talking about the shift key, and I thought it was a generational thing because you and I were offered touch typing on typewriters when we were in High School (and I still maintain it's the most useful course I took in HS because my career has been in computers).

Sent from my SM-G935T using CSNbbs mobile app

I've missed this thread somehow... and now I'm upset that I have

Listening to RU and NightOwl shows what kind of minds Rice players have. That is our strength and it plays to our recruiting.

(09-20-2016 02:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't think we are doing any pre-snap reads. I really don't.

Sure we do. It's called Meerkat. It's just a coaches read, not a players read. The problem with it is that their coaches are making the same reads (and often paid better/more experienced)

(09-20-2016 11:28 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  While reading this thread a vision of Edmundson and Bailiff reading it and saying "Huh?" is in my head.

You see MOST people doing that... because only SOME athletes will get this... particularly smart ones... the kind who we tend to get, who value the education. Rice becomes a destination for those guys.

You know how NFL QBs take the Wunderlich test? That's what we need. The RU test.

I've mentioned this before here, but a former WR (from early in Bailiff's tenure) told me that his high school ran more complicated WR routes than Rice.

You should ALWAYS read deep to short. ALWAYS look for the td first of it isn't there toy check down. As a db I know this so I defend deep to short. I know you you have a finite time to get rid of the ball. So my goal is to defend deep goat just enough to make you check down then I'm breaking on the short hoping you throw it for a big hit/pbu.

My biggest issue is that we don't stress the defense. We don't make them worry about anything we do. Wr aren't creating mismatches. That's the name of the game. Getting lbs on slot wrs, lbs on fast rbs etc. Wr don't push the safeties deep to bring a second wr underneath to fill that vacated hole. This is basic football and wr don't do it. That's sad.

(09-24-2016 09:46 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  You should ALWAYS read deep to short. ALWAYS look for the td first of it isn't there toy check down. As a db I know this so I defend deep to short. I know you you have a finite time to get rid of the ball. So my goal is to defend deep goat just enough to make you check down then I'm breaking on the short hoping you throw it for a big hit/pbu.

My biggest issue is that we don't stress the defense. We don't make them worry about anything we do. Wr aren't creating mismatches. That's the name of the game. Getting lbs on slot wrs, lbs on fast rbs etc. Wr don't push the safeties deep to bring a second wr underneath to fill that vacated hole. This is basic football and wr don't do it. That's sad.

Agree. We never have really stressed the defense, even when Mensa was here. We run high school patterns and count on receivers beating d-backs individually.

What's wrong with all the big plays we give up in the deep secondary? Looks to me like our safeties spend so much time reading that it's too late for them to react, but I trust you to know far more about secondary play than I do.

(09-24-2016 09:46 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  You should ALWAYS read deep to short. ALWAYS look for the td first of it isn't there toy check down. As a db I know this so I defend deep to short. I know you you have a finite time to get rid of the ball. So my goal is to defend deep goat just enough to make you check down then I'm breaking on the short hoping you throw it for a big hit/pbu.

My biggest issue is that we don't stress the defense. We don't make them worry about anything we do. Wr aren't creating mismatches. That's the name of the game. Getting lbs on slot wrs, lbs on fast rbs etc. Wr don't push the safeties deep to bring a second wr underneath to fill that vacated hole. This is basic football and wr don't do it. That's sad.

Not always. But mostly.

The underlying premise for receivering 101 is that DBs don't want to get beat deep. Therefore, make everything look like you are going deep. Most plays will have a "clearing" route. I have had coaches tell to just clear the defender. If you do, you lose the chance to stress the defense deep and you give up a potential TD if the defender is trying to jump your route. Defenders jump routes if they don't respect a receiver going deep. Beat them once and they back off real quick. The key is to make all the receivers threaten vertically, initially, to push the defense back and also not let the defense know who is running the deep clearing route. When some have asked why receivers can't just take plays off if they aren't involved, it is because they all should be always involved or it just turns into an athlete battle.

By the way, this offense is better than the flexbone/option offenses because you can run and throw effectively without superior athletes.

I have watched some college football games (Kansas State/Stanford, Rice/Baylor, plus others) with my 11 y/o QB son. He recognized many of the plays in those games as ones that we run on our youth team. In fact, on one Stanford TD he goes that is our play and the defense was our defense and presnap the safety was outside shade and the slot post was a gimmie TD. I smiled and said yes it was.

(09-24-2016 10:55 PM)ruowls Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 09:46 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  You should ALWAYS read deep to short. ALWAYS look for the td first of it isn't there toy check down. As a db I know this so I defend deep to short. I know you you have a finite time to get rid of the ball. So my goal is to defend deep goat just enough to make you check down then I'm breaking on the short hoping you throw it for a big hit/pbu.

My biggest issue is that we don't stress the defense. We don't make them worry about anything we do. Wr aren't creating mismatches. That's the name of the game. Getting lbs on slot wrs, lbs on fast rbs etc. Wr don't push the safeties deep to bring a second wr underneath to fill that vacated hole. This is basic football and wr don't do it. That's sad.

Not always. But mostly.

The underlying premise for receivering 101 is that DBs don't want to get beat deep. Therefore, make everything look like you are going deep. Most plays will have a "clearing" route. I have had coaches tell to just clear the defender. If you do, you lose the chance to stress the defense deep and you give up a potential TD if the defender is trying to jump your route. Defenders jump routes if they don't respect a receiver going deep. Beat them once and they back off real quick. The key is to make all the receivers threaten vertically, initially, to push the defense back and also not let the defense know who is running the deep clearing route. When some have asked why receivers can't just take plays off if they aren't involved, it is because they all should be always involved or it just turns into an athlete battle.

By the way, this offense is better than the flexbone/option offenses because you can run and throw effectively without superior athletes.

I have watched some college football games (Kansas State/Stanford, Rice/Baylor, plus others) with my 11 y/o QB son. He recognized many of the plays in those games as ones that we run on our youth team. In fact, on one Stanford TD he goes that is our play and the defense was our defense and presnap the safety was outside shade and the slot post was a gimmie TD. I smiled and said yes it was.

I'd offer him a scholarship, but I'd prefer that he get free tuition as the son of a school employee.

Is ru available on Monday?

The safety issue is they are having them play the deep ball one on one and play the run...you can't do all of that. Certain times they have to play deep. Others they have to be heavy run others one on one. See they aren't defining what they are to do so they're trying to do it all. Slows them down...so they get beat. Pretty simple.

Next defensively we disguise NOTHING. in hs my kids were taught NEVER show what your doing ALWAYS give a false read. Show two high roll to one high. Show press play loose. Then show loose play loose. Always make them think. Being defense we are always a step behind because we don't know what your doing. In order to level the playing field we have to make you think about what we're doing.

Offensively I like the presnap reads but the problem is we aren't calling a play to take advantage of what we see. It awesome of you're an aggressive play caller but we're scared as hell. So it doesn't give us an advantage therfore call a play and run it.

(09-24-2016 10:55 PM)ruowls Wrote:  By the way, this offense is better than the flexbone/option offenses because you can run and throw effectively without superior athletes.

Why not do both?

(09-24-2016 11:31 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The safety issue is they are having them play the deep ball one on one and play the run...you can't do all of that. Certain times they have to play deep. Others they have to be heavy run others one on one. See they aren't defining what they are to do so they're trying to do it all. Slows them down...so they get beat. Pretty simple.

Next defensively we disguise NOTHING. in hs my kids were taught NEVER show what your doing ALWAYS give a false read. Show two high roll to one high. Show press play loose. Then show loose play loose. Always make them think. Being defense we are always a step behind because we don't know what your doing. In order to level the playing field we have to make you think about what we're doing.

Offensively I like the presnap reads but the premenstrual is we aren't calling a play to take advantage of what we see. It worrisome of you're an aggressive play caller but we're scared as hell. So it doesn't give us an advantage therfore call a play and run it.

We talking coverages or hormones. I can go between cover 4 and the adenohypophysis.

(09-24-2016 11:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 10:55 PM)ruowls Wrote:  By the way, this offense is better than the flexbone/option offenses because you can run and throw effectively without superior athletes.

Why not do both?

You can and I do. You can throw in speed option, load option, counter option or triple option. But I like lead, counter, power, zone read and stretch as well. It all complements each other and lets me come after you. "Look eyes, always look eyes."

The esoteric and analytical nature of Rice fans' discussions...it's only funny because it pretty much validates every Rice stereotype to a tee. (Not a bad thing...just an observation. I'm sure any North Texas stereotypes are less appealing)

Anyway, hard fought game and one NT desperately needed. You guys are not, at least talent-wise, as bad as your record now indicates. Tt really seemed to be coaching. It seemed like Rice let off the gas, lost the fire, and failed to effectively adapt as the game progressed.

(09-24-2016 11:55 PM)ruowls Wrote:  

(09-24-2016 11:31 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  The safety issue is they are having them play the deep ball one on one and play the run...you can't do all of that. Certain times they have to play deep. Others they have to be heavy run others one on one. See they aren't defining what they are to do so they're trying to do it all. Slows them down...so they get beat. Pretty simple.

Next defensively we disguise NOTHING. in hs my kids were taught NEVER show what your doing ALWAYS give a false read. Show two high roll to one high. Show press play loose. Then show loose play loose. Always make them think. Being defense we are always a step behind because we don't know what your doing. In order to level the playing field we have to make you think about what we're doing.

Offensively I like the presnap reads but the premenstrual is we aren't calling a play to take advantage of what we see. It worrisome of you're an aggressive play caller but we're scared as hell. So it doesn't give us an advantage therfore call a play and run it.

We talking coverages or hormones. I can go between cover 4 and the adenohypophysis.

I wrote it off as a case of Spellcheck strikes again.

Lol yeah I caught that and went back to change it...don't know if it went through obviously it didn't....lol