“The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

what i was looking for as to any validity or the degree of alleged incident,was if any players would transfer and that did not happen. Therefore, I think it was a family squabble and time to move on and get Saturdays game.

Valid argument but I found it very funny you mentioned sports media. What sports media is covering NIU besides Huskiewire and some local papers? If the Huskiewire guy uncovered this, would this even be on ESPN3? Not even WGN would have covered it!

I agree. If it really were true, our young players would be transferring at a high rate. These are the kind of rumors that scare good recruits away.

(09-14-2016 03:51 PM)NIU8484 Wrote:  

Ha, nice.

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

You are probably right. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I think it is clear something is not right. No matter the reason if the team is not 100℅ behind Carey, our friend MD is right there is no getting that back. Carey has to go. I wouldn't go as far as MD and say the team has quit or is trying to sabotage Carey, but if they are not bought in the only answer is a change. If their issues with Carey result in the slightest loss of focus, attention to detail, or stray from following their assignments you'll see what we have the last few games.

In high level competition small lapses in focus or adherence to assignment can compound into huge differences in the results of the game. I'm guessing some of the former players can attest to this.

Many of the commits talk about the family atmosphere (unless that's just recruit speak) and how everyone is on the same page. If the rumor was true in that the entirety of the team was not getting on the plane then they all wimped out because they were all on that plane. Also I would think that a players parent would come on here and vent. I'm not saying nothing happened but not to the extent that is being bandied about.

(09-14-2016 05:53 PM)Cowboy95 Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

You are probably right. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I think it is clear something is not right. No matter the reason if the team is not 100℅ behind Carey, our friend MD is right there is no getting that back. Carey has to go. I wouldn't go as far as MD and say the team has quit or is trying to sabotage Carey, but if they are not bought in the only answer is a change. If their issues with Carey result in the slightest loss of focus, attention to detail, or stray from following their assignments you'll see what we have the last few games.

In high level competition small lapses in focus or adherence to assignment can compound into huge differences in the results of the game. I'm guessing some of the former players can attest to this.

What they are sabotaging more than Carey (if these things are even true, since nobody seems to know for sure) is their chance at playing on an NFL team...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

30 years as an attorney? Great investigative work and conclusion. Maybe you can call Pam Zekman in with those facts.

Exact this board doesn't need. Nor the school.

"The rumor." True, not true. Great investigative work.

Move on, please. Although the newest troll seems to enjoy it.

(09-14-2016 06:06 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 05:53 PM)Cowboy95 Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

You are probably right. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I think it is clear something is not right. No matter the reason if the team is not 100℅ behind Carey, our friend MD is right there is no getting that back. Carey has to go. I wouldn't go as far as MD and say the team has quit or is trying to sabotage Carey, but if they are not bought in the only answer is a change. If their issues with Carey result in the slightest loss of focus, attention to detail, or stray from following their assignments you'll see what we have the last few games.

In high level competition small lapses in focus or adherence to assignment can compound into huge differences in the results of the game. I'm guessing some of the former players can attest to this.

What they are sabotaging more than Carey (if these things are even true, since nobody seems to know for sure) is their chance at playing on an NFL team...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Exactly, which is why I think only MD would make that claim. A loss of focus and a loss of everyone keeping their assignments can make it extremely difficult to win, though.

Here is my hypothetical autopsy:

- Players started to drift from Carey after non-conf games last season, particularly OSU and BC games
- Easy schedule and players going their own way, keeps things together
- Injuries mount at end of year, results go downhill and a little spark or whatever incident happened at end of last year is more a symptom of the dysfunction of the team than the root cause.
- Players come back this year with lowest morale ever.


I don't even think the actual event or "rumor" that happened is the important thing, it was just a spark to aggravate pre-existing problems. I think the seeds of mutiny were planted after Ohio State/BC and only sprouted when times became tough at the end of the year.

While we are on the topic of rumors, was it ever announced what the deal w Huff was during the offseason? He mysteriously left the team but then came back. Just never remembering hearing why


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where are the team leaders leading?
If you have clubhouse lawyers undermining the coaching staff then the AD and coaching staff need to have a talk with the clubhouse lawyers ASAP. You remind them who the head coach is. If they do not like the message, you remind them that they can just walk away or not have their scholarship renewed.
I may be wrong but I believe there are very few schools that would pick them up.

Not exactly sure what happened but you can tell there is not much chemistry on this team. I know there is a divide amongst the players as well. Maybe it's a combination of an absence in leadership and a disrespect for the coaches. Whatever the problem is, it makes it easier for the players to give up or seem defeated at times. I haven't seen anyone step up on the sidelines and pick up the team. Maybe a large leadership council isn't working and we should have true Captains. Carey seems to stay out of the sideline team huddles during time outs and lets the assistant coaches do the talking. I've always like when a head coach would rally the entire team. It's one of the reasons Kill was loved by his players. We also don't make good in game adjustments which has to make the players feel like any deficit is insurmountable.

The season is still young and can de salvaged but we have looked like a team that gets down as soon as things go wrong. That never used to happen.

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

I have told you what happened it is not a rumor !! Read my post on the subject it is first hand knowledge so just ignore it and keep your head in the sand LOL. How much more clear can I be they walked out raided the locker room and told the AD they would not get on a plane with Carey. Its that simple. AD met with all Sr"s and talked them on to the plane. The rest can be seen in how they have played from that point on !!

(09-14-2016 09:41 PM)randy6956 Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 03:43 PM)NILAW Wrote:  “The rumor” (all the players walked out of practice and some refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane before the Boise St. bowl game) has been brought up in many places here. I wanted to start a new thread on the rumor and throw out my thoughts.

I find it hard believe that every single player agreed to and did walk-out of practice; not a single player put anything on social media; and the sports media (who live for stories like that) completely whiffed! There are just too many things to make me believe that rumor is 100% true. I know at least one here says some players say the rumor is 100% true. One former player told me in a private message the rumor is not true. A source close to the team told me it is not true and told me what really happened; however he has a motivation to say the rumor is not true.

Having been a lawyer for 30 years and in law enforcement for 6 years before going to law school at NIU I have heard hundreds of times two entirely different versions of the same incident (mostly about how an accident happened). The versions are so different you would swear they couldn’t be talking about the same incident/accident. I have come to the conclusion that it is likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions. Therefore, my feeling is that because of our lousy bowl performances/record Carey decided on a different plan to prep for the Boise St. game. However, some players did not buy into Carey’s plan, did walk out of practice and refused to fly to San Diego if Carey was on the plane.

Is this what really happened? Probably not exactly; but it does makes sense, would explain the bowl non-performance (being kind), and the residual issues we are seeing this season. Maybe the rumor is 100% true; maybe the other version I heard is 100% true; more likely the real story is somewhere in the middle of the versions, which is common when the versions are so polar opposite.

If any part of some of the players not buying into Carey’s plan is true, I see that as a serious problem. Carey is the coach; what he says goes/is the law (see Gene Hackman in Hoosiers - LOL). I questioned it at the time and I am now convinced Carey being promoted to the head coach was a bad idea. However he is the head coach and the players cannot decide whether or not to follow his plan. That would never work; we may live in a democracy but the team (like other places) cannot be run like a democracy!

Whatever happened (and I think we can agree that something happened) I hope everyone gets over it and moves on for the common goal of being the Huskies we are used to seeing! Maybe we don’t have the same talent we did, but I think we all can agree that this lack of enthusiasm, etc. is very bad (insert whatever expletives you want) in every way!

I have told you what happened it is not a rumor !! Read my post on the subject it is first hand knowledge so just ignore it and keep your head in the sand LOL. How much more clear can I be they walked out raided the locker room and told the AD they would not get on a plane with Carey. Its that simple. AD met with all Sr"s and talked them on to the plane. The rest can be seen in how they have played from that point on !!

Randy, have the players rallied around the new coordinators or not big fans?

[/quote]

I have told you what happened it is not a rumor !! Read my post on the subject it is first hand knowledge so just ignore it and keep your head in the sand LOL. How much more clear can I be they walked out raided the locker room and told the AD they would not get on a plane with Carey. Its that simple. AD met with all Sr"s and talked them on to the plane. The rest can be seen in how they have played from that point on !!
[/quote]

I don't think people question that the rumor has merit, but more so the extent of it's accuracy. Like…was it every player, or a handful? Is your source one of the people involved and so maybe his recall of the situation is influenced by that? Plus, kids tend to exaggerate. So to question the totality of the rumor is totally fair. There's one person's account of an action that 90 players were involved in. Logic says that info would get out in some way. I, like many, think something happened. Just can't be sure exactly what.

Quote:I agree. If it really were true, our young players would be transferring at a high rate. These are the kind of rumors that scare good recruits away.

Rumors being at least pretty much true don't necessarily make it to the press (reference beginning of season 2014 of a certain team in the MAC). It never caught on in the presses around, so no, no recruits would know thus not avoid. Transfer rates high? Not necessarily due to a big fed-up squabble at the end of the season. Cubit, WMU's pre-PJ coach I found out had a lot of issues. Some players no issue with him at all, some even liked him, some really ticked about him as that part grew. Talked to a former GA coach who had in a in-your-face shouting match with Cubit, and explained how Cubit was becoming not liked. Which is why the surprise and argument about firing Cubit on our boards -- because WMU fired him like RIGHT after our last loss. Boom. Swift and not-so-nice. People scratched their heads. A lot of this behind-the-scenes stuff isn't even on the back-page news.

In the end, it's NIU -- not Buffalo. Thus, if the story bears good amount of truth to a big squabble -- you wouldn't necessarily see people defecting left and right. In the end, after cooling heads, "Hey, next year we start over. We've won the MAC West year after year after year, we had a lot of injuries... transferring doesn't magically get you to a better team..."

Quote:Read my post on the subject it is first hand knowledge so just ignore it and keep your head in the sand LOL.

It's first-hand if you were there witnessing it. It'd be second-hand to us. Did you really see all this go down by purely witnessing it, tho? If you're relying on any sources, it's 2nd-hand to you coming from 1st-handers, and 3rd-hand to us.