(07-28-2016 03:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 11:08 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  I can't see any American school paying $10M to leave in order to join the MWC. Even if the American loses 3-4 schools to the Big 12.

Rice is desperately trying to move up from CUSA. I can see the MWC adding UTEP and Rice if Rice can't get into the American with SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy etc.

If not Rice, then maybe UTEP and UTSA.

Is that $10 million still valid if ESPN lowers the TV deal?

If they're still operating under the old Big East bylaws then the $10M exit fee is still in force. There was nothing in the old bylaw language about the exit fee depending on a TV contract.

(I personally really doubt that they're using the old bylaws, half of which are non-operational or irrelevant because they relate to the old Big East being a hybrid. IT's not that hard to draft bylaws, they've had a couple of years to do it so I have to think it's happened by now. Whether they kept or changed the $10M exit fee, only the ADs and PResidents and conference office folks really know.)

(07-28-2016 03:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 11:08 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  I can't see any American school paying $10M to leave in order to join the MWC. Even if the American loses 3-4 schools to the Big 12.

Rice is desperately trying to move up from CUSA. I can see the MWC adding UTEP and Rice if Rice can't get into the American with SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy etc.

If not Rice, then maybe UTEP and UTSA.

Is that $10 million still valid if ESPN lowers the TV deal?

If they're still operating under the old Big East bylaws then the $10M exit fee is still in force. There was nothing in the old bylaw language about the exit fee depending on a TV contract.

(I personally really doubt that they're using the old bylaws, half of which are non-operational or irrelevant because they relate to the old Big East being a hybrid. IT's not that hard to draft bylaws, they've had a couple of years to do it so I have to think it's happened by now. Whether they kept or changed the $10M exit fee, only the ADs and PResidents and conference office folks really know.)

Rice doesn't used to not support their athletics department.

We do now:

Rice AD Joe Karlgaard answered this in a recent tweetstorm:

Quote:Joe Karlgaard, Rice University Athletic Director:
‏@jkarlgaard
We've completed $113.2M in facilities renovations in the last ten years, touching every single sport at Rice.

$32 million spent this year (all paid for in advance) just on new End Zone Facility (replacing old north seating stands) including coaches offices, weight room, training and therapy areas, players locker rooms and lounge, players meeting auditorium, and more says you're mistaken:




Also, $23 million complete recent renovation and expansion of Basketball facility Tudor Fieldhouse:



Reckling Park, one of the nation's premier modern college baseball stadiums, seating 7,000 +, 9 suites, spacious press box and radio spaces and host to many NCAA Regionals and Superregionals as well as the 2003 National baseball Champion Rice Owls and scheduled for additional multi-million dollar expansion of facilities down third base line:



Brand-new $8 Million 120,000-sf, 14-court George R. Brown Tennis facility and Stadium Seating for 600+:



Brand-new $2 Million Wendel D. Ley Track & Holloway Field. The grandstand accommodates 1,500 people with a mixture of chairback and bleacher seating, as well as a new press box. The teams' building includes meeting rooms, a weight room and space for visiting teams, in addition to restrooms for fans.



Rice Aquatics Center Natatorium Size: 12,650-sf 50-meter completion pool Completion: 2009 Highlights: 8 lanes and 4 diving boards, 4-ft wide moveable bulkhead, 20 cross course lanes available




Rice in the last several years has dramatically upgraded its facilities and has been spending millions to get back to where it once was long ago. Additional phased renovations are planned for the football stadium including press box, seating areas and suites, concessions, bathrooms and more.

(07-28-2016 03:52 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 11:08 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  I can't see any American school paying $10M to leave in order to join the MWC. Even if the American loses 3-4 schools to the Big 12.

Rice is desperately trying to move up from CUSA. I can see the MWC adding UTEP and Rice if Rice can't get into the American with SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy etc.

If not Rice, then maybe UTEP and UTSA.

Is that $10 million still valid if ESPN lowers the TV deal?

If they're still operating under the old Big East bylaws then the $10M exit fee is still in force. There was nothing in the old bylaw language about the exit fee depending on a TV contract.

(I personally really doubt that they're using the old bylaws, half of which are non-operational or irrelevant because they relate to the old Big East being a hybrid. IT's not that hard to draft bylaws, they've had a couple of years to do it so I have to think it's happened by now. Whether they kept or changed the $10M exit fee, only the ADs and PResidents and conference office folks really know.)

Rice doesn't used to not support their athletics department.

We do now:

Rice AD Joe Karlgaard answered this in a recent tweetstorm:

Quote:Joe Karlgaard, Rice University Athletic Director:
‏@jkarlgaard
We've completed $113.2M in facilities renovations in the last ten years, touching every single sport at Rice.

$32 million spent this year (all paid for in advance) just on new End Zone Facility (replacing old north seating stands) including coaches offices, weight room, training and therapy areas, players locker rooms and lounge, players meeting auditorium, and more says you're mistaken:




Also, $23 million complete recent renovation and expansion of Basketball facility Tudor Fieldhouse:



Reckling Park, one of the nation's premier modern college baseball stadiums, seating 7,000 +, 9 suites, spacious press box and radio spaces and host to many NCAA Regionals and Superregionals as well as the 2003 National baseball Champion Rice Owls and scheduled for additional multi-million dollar expansion of facilities down third base line:



Brand-new $8 Million 120,000-sf, 14-court George R. Brown Tennis facility and Stadium Seating for 600+:



Brand-new $2 Million Wendel D. Ley Track & Holloway Field. The grandstand accommodates 1,500 people with a mixture of chairback and bleacher seating, as well as a new press box. The teams' building includes meeting rooms, a weight room and space for visiting teams, in addition to restrooms for fans.



Rice Aquatics Center Natatorium Size: 12,650-sf 50-meter completion pool Completion: 2009 Highlights: 8 lanes and 4 diving boards, 4-ft wide moveable bulkhead, 20 cross course lanes available




Rice in the last several years has dramatically upgraded its facilities and has been spending millions to get back to where it once was long ago. Additional phased renovations are planned for the football stadium including press box, seating areas and suites, concessions, bathrooms and more.

Is that an outdoor pool for swim meets? That's... weird

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

It sounds like if the deal with BYU goes down then Rice wraps up an invite to the MWC.

The AAC I think wont be as concerned with backfilling to keep SMU from bolting with those exit fees and instead try to take the best football programs available.

(07-28-2016 03:53 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Is that an outdoor pool for swim meets? That's... weird

Houston is in southeast Texas, remember, not Illinois, so we have much milder temperatures mostly year-round. And our old indoor one this replaced was from the 50's.

I've been brain storming the realignment/backfill scenarios and I think I'm up to 50 and counting. So many variables depending on who is actually taken.

(07-28-2016 04:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I've been brain storming the realignment/backfill scenarios and I think I'm up to 50 and counting. So many variables depending on who is actually taken.

post a few, where the B12 goes to 14. I'd like to see ideas other than mine.

(07-28-2016 04:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I've been brain storming the realignment/backfill scenarios and I think I'm up to 50 and counting. So many variables depending on who is actually taken.

Not knowing what is driving the thinking in the meeting room makes it hard.

(07-28-2016 03:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 11:08 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  I can't see any American school paying $10M to leave in order to join the MWC. Even if the American loses 3-4 schools to the Big 12.

Rice is desperately trying to move up from CUSA. I can see the MWC adding UTEP and Rice if Rice can't get into the American with SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy etc.

If not Rice, then maybe UTEP and UTSA.

Is that $10 million still valid if ESPN lowers the TV deal?

If they're still operating under the old Big East bylaws then the $10M exit fee is still in force. There was nothing in the old bylaw language about the exit fee depending on a TV contract.

(I personally really doubt that they're using the old bylaws, half of which are non-operational or irrelevant because they relate to the old Big East being a hybrid. IT's not that hard to draft bylaws, they've had a couple of years to do it so I have to think it's happened by now. Whether they kept or changed the $10M exit fee, only the ADs and PResidents and conference office folks really know.)

11.02.a.ii

The previous bylaws basically signify that the exit fee is $5 million if you notify prior to 20 odd months. Then comes this bylaw:

"In the event of a material reduction in annual average revenues payable to the Conference under the Conference's television contract and other media rights, then the Members agree that they will revisit the amount of Withdrawal fees payable hereunder."

I didn't say that the amount would be reduced to the exact number as the television contract. Only that a lower contract would trigger this bylaw. Back in 2011, the TV contract was $10m for the football schools and $5million for the bball schools.

The same bylaw also noted that without the BCS, the $10m fee drops to $5m. AND, beyond that, the $10m fee was only in play if a member notified the conference of withdrawal AFTER Navy agreed to become a member.

In essence, the withdrawal fee was $5m, with the provision that a drop in TV income would trigger a review of the fee.

(07-28-2016 05:00 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 04:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I've been brain storming the realignment/backfill scenarios and I think I'm up to 50 and counting. So many variables depending on who is actually taken.

post a few, where the B12 goes to 14. I'd like to see ideas other than mine.

BYU and Boise (football-only), Houston and Cincinnati to the B12 as full members.

- New Mexico State to the MWC.
- Boise State and Seattle to the Big West. #12 is either Grand Canyon or UC San Diego.

- Idaho joins the FCS Big Sky.
- UMKC and Utah Valley join the Summit.
- UT-Rio Grande Valley plays for free in the Southland
- Cal State Bakersfield is an independent or latches onto the Big Sky

- UMass to the American

(07-28-2016 08:14 PM)upstater1 Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 11:08 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  I can't see any American school paying $10M to leave in order to join the MWC. Even if the American loses 3-4 schools to the Big 12.

Rice is desperately trying to move up from CUSA. I can see the MWC adding UTEP and Rice if Rice can't get into the American with SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy etc.

If not Rice, then maybe UTEP and UTSA.

Is that $10 million still valid if ESPN lowers the TV deal?

If they're still operating under the old Big East bylaws then the $10M exit fee is still in force. There was nothing in the old bylaw language about the exit fee depending on a TV contract.

(I personally really doubt that they're using the old bylaws, half of which are non-operational or irrelevant because they relate to the old Big East being a hybrid. IT's not that hard to draft bylaws, they've had a couple of years to do it so I have to think it's happened by now. Whether they kept or changed the $10M exit fee, only the ADs and PResidents and conference office folks really know.)

11.02.a.ii

The previous bylaws basically signify that the exit fee is $5 million if you notify prior to 20 odd months. Then comes this bylaw:

"In the event of a material reduction in annual average revenues payable to the Conference under the Conference's television contract and other media rights, then the Members agree that they will revisit the amount of Withdrawal fees payable hereunder."

I didn't say that the amount would be reduced to the exact number as the television contract. Only that a lower contract would trigger this bylaw. Back in 2011, the TV contract was $10m for the football schools and $5million for the bball schools.

The same bylaw also noted that without the BCS, the $10m fee drops to $5m. AND, beyond that, the $10m fee was only in play if a member notified the conference of withdrawal AFTER Navy agreed to become a member.

In essence, the withdrawal fee was $5m, with the provision that a drop in TV income would trigger a review of the fee.

October 2011 Big East Bylaw PDF

You're right about the clause about reducing the exit fees. About AQ status, the AAC schools maintained that they hadn't lost AQ status when they were disputing with Rutgers.

But I really believe that the old hybrid Big East bylaws are not governing the all-sports, mostly-new-member AAC. So the exit fee is whatever the continuing and new schools wanted it to be. (Probably $10M, since any of them would gladly pay that much to go to a P5 league and everyone else wants to at least get the cash.)

(07-28-2016 04:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 03:53 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Is that an outdoor pool for swim meets? That's... weird

Houston is in southeast Texas, remember, not Illinois, so we have much milder temperatures mostly year-round. And our old indoor one this replaced was from the 50's.

Looks similar to the pool at Emory University the Olympic swimmers are using this week to prepare for the Olympics.

(07-28-2016 07:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 04:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I've been brain storming the realignment/backfill scenarios and I think I'm up to 50 and counting. So many variables depending on who is actually taken.

Not knowing what is driving the thinking in the meeting room makes it hard.

My guess is on the field product will be a big consideration for the AAC because it will make the difference in CFP money and help the other schools recruit.

Replacing the combined football power of Memphis, Cincinnati and Houston with Army football only sounds like a poor long term move but might be what they need to hang onto the TV deal. Could the AAC thrive as a top heavy FB conference like the old MWC when they had BYU, Utah, TCU and AFA (for the AAC it could be UCF, USF, Temple and Navy)?

Also if the AAC dropped to 9 and and added just Army it would be 10 in FB and 8 in BB. Somehow I have a hard time envisioning the AAC allowing itself to drop to 8 all sport members. If they go back to 10 with an all sport member, that's 9 in basketball which isn't an even number.

That is why I think 12 FB/10 BB might be the ticket for the AAC.

(07-28-2016 05:00 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 04:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I've been brain storming the realignment/backfill scenarios and I think I'm up to 50 and counting. So many variables depending on who is actually taken.

post a few, where the B12 goes to 14. I'd like to see ideas other than mine.

1. MW -1 and AAC -2.
MW adds UTEP, AAC stays at 10/9, CUSA adds NMSU.

2. AAC -3 (UH, Cincy, UConn)
AAC adds 1 (UMass) and stays at 10/9.

3. AAC -3 (UH, Cincy, Memphis), CUSA -3, MAC-1, (SB-2)
AAC adds Rice, S. Miss and Ohio...2 west division and 1 east div repl),
MAC adds Marshall, CUSA a) UAB doesn't want west division so CUSA adds 3 (NMSU, Tex. St and ULL) and now each division pretty regional. b) CUSA adds 1 (NMSU) and UAB is in west division as they would be before. SB loses 0.


etc...etc.

I don't think any MAC school would leave for the CUSA. In my opinion.

Buffalo or NIU would probably accept an AAC invite. The rest have been together too long at this point.

(07-29-2016 09:06 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I don't think any MAC school would leave for the CUSA. In my opinion.

Buffalo or NIU would probably accept an AAC invite. The rest have been together too long at this point.

No MAC school would. Big paycut in TV revs.

If AAC loses Cinci and Houston, would they stay at 10/9 or go back to 12/10 or 12/11? Main reason would be so they could have two divisions of six instead of two divisions of five or a round robin at nine conf games.

Could add one from CUSA plus try to add Army football-only.


If MWC loses Boise (+BYU), then could look at UTEP like you said, with CUSA maybe adding NM St or maybe staying at 12 if they only lose one to the AAC.


Sun Belt should be fine because I don't see CUSA losing more than two and don't see why they'd want to stay at 14.