(07-09-2016 11:08 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Cincinnati as the 16th maybe. The rest have no chance. It's all about football money and none of those schools add enough to the bottom line. A school has to be able to bring more money to the table the they are going to take.

UConn is worth more when you include the potential for a network...either bring something not sure either bring enough unless ESPN gives a wink ok.

If the goal is to split the ACC, this would do it.

Let this be a lesson to all you kids out there. DO NOT try realignment at home

(07-09-2016 09:34 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  You're not doing Pirate Nation any favors right now...

Hey, all poodles are dogs but it doesn't mean all dogs are poodles. He stands alone ............

David State Wrote:You are leaving out Boise, NDSU, CSU, UNLV and UMN for the 5th pod all those schools have done as much or more than many of the ACC teams and as the teams you are talking about adding

(07-09-2016 09:17 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  What the ACC should do:
Expand to 20 schools. Four division of five schools.
Notre Dame Division
Carolina Division
North Division
South Division

Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy* (Georgetown)

Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF
UAB!!!!!


I think they all speak for themselves except for UAB so let me explain.
UAB is one of the better public schools in the state of Alabama. With its smaller enrollment then most public schools it puts it on the same page as GT, UVA, UNC, UofL, and Clemson. Also UAB brings good basketball in a SEC state. The heart of SEC country in Birmingham Alabama. Puts the ACC in several SEC states and allows Flordia State and Georgia Tech games in Alabama a state that they recruit heavily. It also allows the fans of those teams to have another close conference member instead of a bunch of Yankee teams.

The main problem with the schools you picked for expansion is that UAB isn't going to be one of them. Let's try to be realistic. Who would the ACC expand with from the G5 level that is realistic?

UCONN - possible.

Temple - possible.

Navy - possible

Cincinnati - possible


Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Temple
Cincinnati
UCONN

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Louisville

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF or East Carolina or USF
Clemson

I wouldn't mind the ACC expanding with these schools. UCONN should be a P5 school and this is where I think UCONN should be.

(07-09-2016 12:58 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 09:17 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  What the ACC should do:
Expand to 20 schools. Four division of five schools.
Notre Dame Division
Carolina Division
North Division
South Division

Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy* (Georgetown)

Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF
UAB!!!!!


I think they all speak for themselves except for UAB so let me explain.
UAB is one of the better public schools in the state of Alabama. With its smaller enrollment then most public schools it puts it on the same page as GT, UVA, UNC, UofL, and Clemson. Also UAB brings good basketball in a SEC state. The heart of SEC country in Birmingham Alabama. Puts the ACC in several SEC states and allows Flordia State and Georgia Tech games in Alabama a state that they recruit heavily. It also allows the fans of those teams to have another close conference member instead of a bunch of Yankee teams.

The main problem with the schools you picked for expansion is that UAB isn't going to be one of them. Let's try to be realistic. Who would the ACC expand with from the G5 level that is realistic?

UCONN - possible.

Temple - possible.

Navy - possible

Cincinnati - possible


Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Temple
Cincinnati
UCONN

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Louisville

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF or East Carolina or USF
Clemson

I wouldn't mind the ACC expanding with these schools. UCONN should be a P5 school and this is where I think UCONN should be.

UConn and Temple are non-starters. While they are fine for the occasional OOC game, no one in the conference wants to see them every year, or every other year. They serve almost no recruiting purpose and have no long term history of commitment to major college football.

Cincinnati is in a tough geography.

Navy's value to the ACC is in relation to Notre Dame and a national niche following.

Tulane adds more to the ACC than UConn, Temple, or Cincinnati. Even though Tulane has deemphasized football twice in the last 60 year. Tulane actually expands the media footprint rather than duplicate and overlap and existing footprint. Tulane is in New Orleans as opposed to those sexy locations like Storrs, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Annapolis.

If the ACC is going to add 2 or three G-5 schools, they are not going to be located in another ACC schools backyard. Tulane, Houston, and Navy would get invites before UConn, Temple, UCF, and Cincy and why would the ACC invite a fifth school from the State of NC?

(07-09-2016 01:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 12:58 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 09:17 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  What the ACC should do:
Expand to 20 schools. Four division of five schools.
Notre Dame Division
Carolina Division
North Division
South Division

Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy* (Georgetown)

Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF
UAB!!!!!


I think they all speak for themselves except for UAB so let me explain.
UAB is one of the better public schools in the state of Alabama. With its smaller enrollment then most public schools it puts it on the same page as GT, UVA, UNC, UofL, and Clemson. Also UAB brings good basketball in a SEC state. The heart of SEC country in Birmingham Alabama. Puts the ACC in several SEC states and allows Flordia State and Georgia Tech games in Alabama a state that they recruit heavily. It also allows the fans of those teams to have another close conference member instead of a bunch of Yankee teams.

The main problem with the schools you picked for expansion is that UAB isn't going to be one of them. Let's try to be realistic. Who would the ACC expand with from the G5 level that is realistic?

UCONN - possible.

Temple - possible.

Navy - possible

Cincinnati - possible


Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Temple
Cincinnati
UCONN

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Louisville

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF or East Carolina or USF
Clemson

I wouldn't mind the ACC expanding with these schools. UCONN should be a P5 school and this is where I think UCONN should be.

UConn and Temple are non-starters. While they are fine for the occasional OOC game, no one in the conference wants to see them every year, or every other year. They serve almost no recruiting purpose and have no long term history of commitment to major college football.

Cincinnati is in a tough geography.

Navy's value to the ACC is in relation to Notre Dame and a national niche following.

Tulane adds more to the ACC than UConn, Temple, or Cincinnati. Even though Tulane has deemphasized football twice in the last 60 year. Tulane actually expands the media footprint rather than duplicate and overlap and existing footprint. Tulane is in New Orleans as opposed to those sexy locations like Storrs, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Annapolis.

If the ACC is going to add 2 or three G-5 schools, they are not going to be located in another ACC schools backyard. Tulane, Houston, and Navy would get invites before UConn, Temple, UCF, and Cincy and why would the ACC invite a fifth school from the State of NC?

Tulane, Houston and Navy would be realistic.

I could see Navy being the next school to join the ACC since that would help "trap" ND to the ACC for decades to come.

You could pair Tulane and Houston with the Florida and Georgia schools.

(07-09-2016 01:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 12:58 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 09:17 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  What the ACC should do:
Expand to 20 schools. Four division of five schools.
Notre Dame Division
Carolina Division
North Division
South Division

Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy* (Georgetown)

Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF
UAB!!!!!


I think they all speak for themselves except for UAB so let me explain.
UAB is one of the better public schools in the state of Alabama. With its smaller enrollment then most public schools it puts it on the same page as GT, UVA, UNC, UofL, and Clemson. Also UAB brings good basketball in a SEC state. The heart of SEC country in Birmingham Alabama. Puts the ACC in several SEC states and allows Flordia State and Georgia Tech games in Alabama a state that they recruit heavily. It also allows the fans of those teams to have another close conference member instead of a bunch of Yankee teams.

The main problem with the schools you picked for expansion is that UAB isn't going to be one of them. Let's try to be realistic. Who would the ACC expand with from the G5 level that is realistic?

UCONN - possible.

Temple - possible.

Navy - possible

Cincinnati - possible


Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Temple
Cincinnati
UCONN

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Louisville

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF or East Carolina or USF
Clemson

I wouldn't mind the ACC expanding with these schools. UCONN should be a P5 school and this is where I think UCONN should be.

UConn and Temple are non-starters. While they are fine for the occasional OOC game, no one in the conference wants to see them every year, or every other year. They serve almost no recruiting purpose and have no long term history of commitment to major college football.

Cincinnati is in a tough geography.

Navy's value to the ACC is in relation to Notre Dame and a national niche following.

Tulane adds more to the ACC than UConn, Temple, or Cincinnati. Even though Tulane has deemphasized football twice in the last 60 year. Tulane actually expands the media footprint rather than duplicate and overlap and existing footprint. Tulane is in New Orleans as opposed to those sexy locations like Storrs, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Annapolis.

If the ACC is going to add 2 or three G-5 schools, they are not going to be located in another ACC schools backyard. Tulane, Houston, and Navy would get invites before UConn, Temple, UCF, and Cincy and why would the ACC invite a fifth school from the State of NC?

Sounds a lot like NC State. Their revenue sports are god awful...

I really don't have anything against ECU. I love their mascot, and their colors are cool. Uhm...that's about it, though. Can't say anything BAD about 'em...

The ACC did what it needed to do to survive--knock off its closest peer (the Big East). Then it got its teams to sign a GOR. ESPN promised them some good money. They are safe.

The only places for them to go are such:
A) offer a sweetheart deal to Texas and Notre Dame (as teams 15 and 16)...allow them to keep 3rd tier rights but bring in two entities that are far superior to any other ACC school. The ACC though has ZERO pull here; this would fully be something that ND/Texas would need to desire (for some reason or another). But this scenario is THE ONLY feasible one where the ACC would be the "first mover" in expansion.
B) If other conferences grow significantly (let's say Big Ten to 18 and SEC to 16) in a Big 12 collapse, the ACC might then expand with an attractive target. Who exactly that would be is entirely dependent on who's left on the board. Could a Cincy/WVU/UConn/Baylor/TCU/KState/Kansas addition ever possibly happen? Maybe. But it all depends on the other moves. The ACC is going to be a REACTOR in expansion though.

That's your ACC expansion 101.

(07-09-2016 01:17 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 12:58 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 09:17 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  What the ACC should do:
Expand to 20 schools. Four division of five schools.
Notre Dame Division
Carolina Division
North Division
South Division

Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy* (Georgetown)

Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF
UAB!!!!!


I think they all speak for themselves except for UAB so let me explain.
UAB is one of the better public schools in the state of Alabama. With its smaller enrollment then most public schools it puts it on the same page as GT, UVA, UNC, UofL, and Clemson. Also UAB brings good basketball in a SEC state. The heart of SEC country in Birmingham Alabama. Puts the ACC in several SEC states and allows Flordia State and Georgia Tech games in Alabama a state that they recruit heavily. It also allows the fans of those teams to have another close conference member instead of a bunch of Yankee teams.

The main problem with the schools you picked for expansion is that UAB isn't going to be one of them. Let's try to be realistic. Who would the ACC expand with from the G5 level that is realistic?

UCONN - possible.

Temple - possible.

Navy - possible

Cincinnati - possible


Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy

Virginia
Virginia Tech
Temple
Cincinnati
UCONN

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Louisville

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF or East Carolina or USF
Clemson

I wouldn't mind the ACC expanding with these schools. UCONN should be a P5 school and this is where I think UCONN should be.

UConn and Temple are non-starters. While they are fine for the occasional OOC game, no one in the conference wants to see them every year, or every other year. They serve almost no recruiting purpose and have no long term history of commitment to major college football.

Cincinnati is in a tough geography.

Navy's value to the ACC is in relation to Notre Dame and a national niche following.

Tulane adds more to the ACC than UConn, Temple, or Cincinnati. Even though Tulane has deemphasized football twice in the last 60 year. Tulane actually expands the media footprint rather than duplicate and overlap and existing footprint. Tulane is in New Orleans as opposed to those sexy locations like Storrs, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Annapolis.

If the ACC is going to add 2 or three G-5 schools, they are not going to be located in another ACC schools backyard. Tulane, Houston, and Navy would get invites before UConn, Temple, UCF, and Cincy and why would the ACC invite a fifth school from the State of NC?

Uh, who's in Cincy's backyard? Not Pitt, not Louisville, and certainly not Notre Dame. Both Pitt and Louisville had rivalries with Cincy in their Big East days, and in fact, Cincy's football rivalry with Louisville (the Keg of Nails) goes back a very long way. A lot of hoops history between those two schools, as well.

Adding Cincy would expand the ACC footprint into populous Ohio. Furthermore, proximity to rivals, both old and new, makes it easy to hop in the car and enjoy games on enemy turf.

That is mostly correct. The ACC is lower on the financial totem pole than the SEC and the Big Ten. It always has been and it always will be and it is a function of institutional size, geography, history, etc.

I do think that the gap between the SEC and Big Ten and everyone else is being overstated. If people are indeed cutting the cord, that will not know any geographic bounds and it will impact everyone fairly equally.

Also, the notion that this will all conclude in a nice, tidy 4×16 system that some people are talking about is a pure fantasy. That will never happen - not in this ultra cutthroat system. Dong King will become the new Dalai Lama first.

The only way the ACC should expand is if ND goes all in and we add a 16th. Other than that, there is no need.

To respond to a few things:

1. Baylor will never get an invitation to an ACC that contains Duke, UVa, and UNC.

2. To continue with B12 schools other than Baylor or West Virginia, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech will never get an ACC invitation as long as UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, and WF are in the conference. Texas and Kansas are the only sure invitees if they want to join. OU would have some opposition. TCU and ISU would have some support.

3. UConn will never get an invitation to an ACC that contains FSU, Clemson, GT, and BC

4. Temple will never get an invitation to the ACC

5. UCF nor USF will get an invitation to an ACC with Florida State

6. WVa will not get an invitation to an ACC that contains Duke, UVa, Wake Forest, and GT

7. Look at the Cincinnati media market. It is located in the SW corner of Ohio, Northern KY, and SW Indiana. This market shares a footprint with the Louisville markets. The notion of expanding into "populous" Ohio must be predicated with expanding into the Ohio that is "Northern" in culture - Columbus to Cleveland for lack of a better descriptor. Ohio State is going to dominate those markets. Secondary market domination in Ohio is going to be by Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Kentucky. Cincinnati and far eastern Ohio already have tertiary penetration by Louisville and Pitt. If the ACC did not have Louisville, Cincy makes a good addition, but the presence of Louisville, impacts and reduces the relative value of Cincinnati to the ACC. That's just a case of bad geography, like UConn.

8. ECU will never get an invitation to join an ACC with UNC, NC State, Duke, and UVa.

Most of the old ACC is so close and so interbred that it's relatively easy to have access to the positions and thoughts of several of the schools at the same time. These schools have lived with each other in a direct political and social setting for a long, long time. Putting together enough votes to buck UNC/Duke/UVa is damn near impossible when those three agree, because when those three agree, they drag WF, VT, and NC State along. Those three are not going to vote to support a school with a general admission component on their doorstep, especially Duke and UVa.

None of these points is based on hating someone, they are based on established interests that are not personal.

I keep picking Cincinnati to be the 16th because it opens up the Ohio market, has ties to FSU when they were both in the Metro conference, they are a great regional pairing with ND, Pitt, Louisville

(07-09-2016 09:17 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  What the ACC should do:
Expand to 20 schools. Four division of five schools.
Notre Dame Division
Carolina Division
North Division
South Division

Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
Navy* (Georgetown)

Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville

North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
Duke
Clemson

Georgia Tech
Florida State
Miami
UCF
UAB!!!!!


I think they all speak for themselves except for UAB so let me explain.
UAB is one of the better public schools in the state of Alabama. With its smaller enrollment then most public schools it puts it on the same page as GT, UVA, UNC, UofL, and Clemson. Also UAB brings good basketball in a SEC state. The heart of SEC country in Birmingham Alabama. Puts the ACC in several SEC states and allows Flordia State and Georgia Tech games in Alabama a state that they recruit heavily. It also allows the fans of those teams to have another close conference member instead of a bunch of Yankee teams.

I know you are stirring the pot, but UAB isn't even in the same book, let alone the same page, as UVa, Georgia Tech or Chapel Hill. Adding a school that dropped football, albeit temporarily, due to lack of state support isn't exactly going to endear them to football schools like FSU or Clemson either.

(07-09-2016 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  To respond to a few things:

1. Baylor will never get an invitation to an ACC that contains Duke, UVa, and UNC.

2. To continue with B12 schools other than Baylor or West Virginia, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech will never get an ACC invitation as long as UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, and WF are in the conference. Texas and Kansas are the only sure invitees if they want to join. OU would have some opposition. TCU and ISU would have some support.

3. UConn will never get an invitation to an ACC that contains FSU, Clemson, GT, and BC

4. Temple will never get an invitation to the ACC

5. UCF nor USF will get an invitation to an ACC with Florida State

6. WVa will not get an invitation to an ACC that contains Duke, UVa, Wake Forest, and GT

7. Look at the Cincinnati media market. It is located in the SW corner of Ohio, Northern KY, and SW Indiana. This market shares a footprint with the Louisville markets. The notion of expanding into "populous" Ohio must be predicated with expanding into the Ohio that is "Northern" in culture - Columbus to Cleveland for lack of a better descriptor. Ohio State is going to dominate those markets. Secondary market domination in Ohio is going to be by Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Kentucky. Cincinnati and far eastern Ohio already have tertiary penetration by Louisville and Pitt. If the ACC did not have Louisville, Cincy makes a good addition, but the presence of Louisville, impacts and reduces the relative value of Cincinnati to the ACC. That's just a case of bad geography, like UConn.

8. ECU will never get an invitation to join an ACC with UNC, NC State, Duke, and UVa.

Most of the old ACC is so close and so interbred that it's relatively easy to have access to the positions and thoughts of several of the schools at the same time. These schools have lived with each other in a direct political and social setting for a long, long time. Putting together enough votes to buck UNC/Duke/UVa is damn near impossible when those three agree, because when those three agree, they drag WF, VT, and NC State along. Those three are not going to vote to support a school with a general admission component on their doorstep, especially Duke and UVa.

None of these points is based on hating someone, they are based on established interests that are not personal.

I sure would like to see you present some competent data backing up your assertions regarding penetration of the Cincinnati and Ohio media markets by out-of-state schools.

As regards your claim that certain ACC schools wouldn't support the addition of an institution with, in your words, "a general admission component," I'm inclined to say they've already crossed that bridge, and to the benefit of all concerned.

Really, you need to do a little research.

(07-09-2016 05:33 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  To respond to a few things:

1. Baylor will never get an invitation to an ACC that contains Duke, UVa, and UNC.

2. To continue with B12 schools other than Baylor or West Virginia, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech will never get an ACC invitation as long as UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, and WF are in the conference. Texas and Kansas are the only sure invitees if they want to join. OU would have some opposition. TCU and ISU would have some support.

3. UConn will never get an invitation to an ACC that contains FSU, Clemson, GT, and BC

4. Temple will never get an invitation to the ACC

5. UCF nor USF will get an invitation to an ACC with Florida State

6. WVa will not get an invitation to an ACC that contains Duke, UVa, Wake Forest, and GT

7. Look at the Cincinnati media market. It is located in the SW corner of Ohio, Northern KY, and SW Indiana. This market shares a footprint with the Louisville markets. The notion of expanding into "populous" Ohio must be predicated with expanding into the Ohio that is "Northern" in culture - Columbus to Cleveland for lack of a better descriptor. Ohio State is going to dominate those markets. Secondary market domination in Ohio is going to be by Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Kentucky. Cincinnati and far eastern Ohio already have tertiary penetration by Louisville and Pitt. If the ACC did not have Louisville, Cincy makes a good addition, but the presence of Louisville, impacts and reduces the relative value of Cincinnati to the ACC. That's just a case of bad geography, like UConn.

8. ECU will never get an invitation to join an ACC with UNC, NC State, Duke, and UVa.

Most of the old ACC is so close and so interbred that it's relatively easy to have access to the positions and thoughts of several of the schools at the same time. These schools have lived with each other in a direct political and social setting for a long, long time. Putting together enough votes to buck UNC/Duke/UVa is damn near impossible when those three agree, because when those three agree, they drag WF, VT, and NC State along. Those three are not going to vote to support a school with a general admission component on their doorstep, especially Duke and UVa.

None of these points is based on hating someone, they are based on established interests that are not personal.

I sure would like to see you present some competent data backing up your assertions regarding penetration of the Cincinnati and Ohio media markets by out-of-state schools.

As regards your claim that certain ACC schools wouldn't support the addition of an institution with, in your words, "a general admission component," I'm inclined to say they've already crossed that bridge, and to the benefit of all concerned.

Really, you need to do a little research.

Hank, Notre Dame has an affiliate in Dayton, Lima, and Cincy. They have 2 in Cleveland and Toledo. Penn State has one in Youngstown and Pittsburgh also bleeds into Ohio. Louisville and Kentucky have an affiliate in Cincinnati, the same one used by the Cincinnati Bengals. Michigan has an affiliate in Toledo. The lines on a map are artificial and not real barriers to the airwaves.

Leaping past the Cincinnati Reds and Bengals, and the Cleveland Browns, Indians, and Cavaliers, Ohio State is the unquestioned king of college sports Ohio. Next is Notre Dame. Penn State, Michigan, Louisville and Kentucky all claim a piece of the action.

Because of where Cincinnati is, the University of Cincinnati is of broadcast and advertising interest in it's metro market - a market that includes Northern Kentucky and Southwest Indiana. That primary market is shared by Ohio State, Notre Dame, Kentucky, Louisville AND the University of Cincinnati.

You are too focused on a line on a map as limiting factors. Kentucky and Louisville to Cincinnati is the same as Clemson is to Charlotte. Charlotte is in NC and Clemson is the second or third college market favorite behind UNC and sometimes Duke/NC State depending on the conditions, sometimes Clemson is second. But guess what, Charlotte also broadcasts into South Carolina just as Cincy does to Kentucky and Indiana so when Charlotte carries UNC, Duke, or NC State, South Carolina TV sets get UNC, Duke, or NC State, and vice versa with Clemson in NC.

Cincy faces extreme competition in it's home metro and unfortunately for Cincy, the ACC, B10, and SEC already have regular broadcasts of their schools in that home metro. That's why Cincy's greatest value is to the Big 12.

(07-09-2016 09:13 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 05:33 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  To respond to a few things:

....


7. Look at the Cincinnati media market. It is located in the SW corner of Ohio, Northern KY, and SW Indiana. This market shares a footprint with the Louisville markets. The notion of expanding into "populous" Ohio must be predicated with expanding into the Ohio that is "Northern" in culture - Columbus to Cleveland for lack of a better descriptor. Ohio State is going to dominate those markets. Secondary market domination in Ohio is going to be by Notre Dame, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Kentucky. Cincinnati and far eastern Ohio already have tertiary penetration by Louisville and Pitt. If the ACC did not have Louisville, Cincy makes a good addition, but the presence of Louisville, impacts and reduces the relative value of Cincinnati to the ACC. That's just a case of bad geography, like UConn.

[/b]
None of these points is based on hating someone, they are based on established interests that are not personal.

I sure would like to see you present some competent data backing up your assertions regarding penetration of the Cincinnati and Ohio media markets by out-of-state schools.

As regards your claim that certain ACC schools wouldn't support the addition of an institution with, in your words, "a general admission component," I'm inclined to say they've already crossed that bridge, and to the benefit of all concerned.

Really, you need to do a little research.

Hank, Notre Dame has an affiliate in Dayton, Lima, and Cincy. They have 2 in Cleveland and Toledo. Penn State has one in Youngstown and Pittsburgh also bleeds into Ohio. Louisville and Kentucky have an affiliate in Cincinnati, the same one used by the Cincinnati Bengals. Michigan has an affiliate in Toledo. The lines on a map are artificial and not real barriers to the airwaves.

Leaping past the Cincinnati Reds and Bengals, and the Cleveland Browns, Indians, and Cavaliers, Ohio State is the unquestioned king of college sports Ohio. Next is Notre Dame. Penn State, Michigan, Louisville and Kentucky all claim a piece of the action.

Because of where Cincinnati is, the University of Cincinnati is of broadcast and advertising interest in it's metro market - a market that includes Northern Kentucky and Southwest Indiana. That primary market is shared by Ohio State, Notre Dame, Kentucky, Louisville AND the University of Cincinnati.

You are too focused on a line on a map as limiting factors. Kentucky and Louisville to Cincinnati is the same as Clemson is to Charlotte. Charlotte is in NC and Clemson is the second or third college market favorite behind UNC and sometimes Duke/NC State depending on the conditions, sometimes Clemson is second. But guess what, Charlotte also broadcasts into South Carolina just as Cincy does to Kentucky and Indiana so when Charlotte carries UNC, Duke, or NC State, South Carolina TV sets get UNC, Duke, or NC State, and vice versa with Clemson in NC.

Cincy faces extreme competition in it's home metro and unfortunately for Cincy, the ACC, B10, and SEC already have regular broadcasts of their schools in that home metro. That's why Cincy's greatest value is to the Big 12.

As a Louisville fan, I WISH we had the reach in Cincy, SW Indiana, and northern Kentucky that you claim we do. There's no way we do.

Cincy would be a solid addition to the league -- adding a nice metro area like Cincinnati, and bringing in a school that has played many of the ACC schools in its past (besides U of L through a variety of conferences the last of which being Big East/AAC; but ND, Pitt, Cuse from the Big East; and Virginia Tech, Florida State and Georgia Tech from the Metro conference days).