I think we can all agree that there is never going to be a divisional alignment that will satisfy every scheduling need/desire for all 14 ACC football teams at the same time. That being said, it is June, and September seems so very far away. With only Miami left standing in Omaha, we have to talk about something.

I'll try one more proposal (since my other umpteen proposals were so poorly received).

Atlantic Division
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
Va Tech
NC State
Pitt
Syracuse

Coastal Division
Ga Tech
Miami
UNC
Duke
Virginia
Wake Forest
Boston College

Stay with an 8 game league schedule. Only four teams in each division have a permanent crossover partner:

Clemson - Ga Tech
Florida St - Miami
Va Tech - Virginia
NC State - UNC

The teams without a permanent partner play two opponents 6 times every 12 years and the third 4 times every 12 years. The other 4 teams, of course, they only play twice because they have a permanent crossover.

For example:
Louisville plays Wake and Duke 6 times and BC 4.
Syracuse plays BC and Wake 6, and Duke 4
Pitt plays BC and Duke 6 and Wake 4

That results in:
Wake plays Louisville and Syracuse 6 and Pitt 4
BC gets Pitt and Syracuse 6, Louisville 4
Duke has Louisville and Pitt 6, and Syracuse 4

The first year, Notre Dame plays Florida St, Syracuse and UNC. The second year, they play Clemson, BC and Miami. The other two games rotate among the remaining eight schools. So the Irish play six teams every other year, and eight teams every fourth year.

Any schools that mutually want to play each other more often may do so. For example, NC State, which has been cut off from most of the original ACC members, could try to schedule two games against Wake, Duke or Virginia OOC when they aren't scheduled in conference.

This still allows teams with an annual P5 rival to keep those games. Clemson and FSU could rotate another tough P5 opponent with Notre Dame every other year, and still keep 7 home games. That, plus the beefed up division slate, should help both their SOS and gate revenues.

The divisions aren't as balanced as they are now. Four of the five private schools are lumped into one division, and most of the large stadiums are in the other. Some schools might not get Notre Dame as often as they would like. But as I said, there is no one solution that will make everybody happy all the time. I'm trying to find one that causes the least unhappiness for the most schools.

I think this arrangement gives weaker teams easier league schedules. Hopefully, that helps get more teams bowl eligible, which helps the whole league. The downside is that the better teams will have a tougher path to the CFP, as they will all have at least six tough games every year. For every plus, there is a minus. So pick your poison.

Still isn't geographically-based.

(06-14-2016 09:17 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Still isn't geographically-based.

No, it isn't. That wasn't a goal. Better than we have now was my goal.

How about this then?

EAST
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Duke
UNC
Virginia
Va Tech

SOUTH
Louisville
NC State
Wake Forest
Clemson
Ga Tech
Florida St
Miami

PRO: (1) it IS geographical; (2) it only requires ONE protected crossover game (UNC/NC State); (3) It keeps Duke/UNC/UVa together

CON: (1) it's not balanced - most of the best teams are in the SOUTH division; (2) It would virtually necessitate a 9-game schedule to provide enough exposure to Florida for the EAST division teams.

I tends to like this realignment:

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Works for me :)

(06-14-2016 08:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  I think we can all agree that there is never going to be a divisional alignment that will satisfy every scheduling need/desire for all 14 ACC football teams at the same time. That being said, it is June, and September seems so very far away. With only Miami left standing in Omaha, we have to talk about something.

I'll try one more proposal (since my other umpteen proposals were so poorly received).

Atlantic Division
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
Va Tech
NC State
Pitt
Syracuse

Coastal Division
Ga Tech
Miami
UNC
Duke
Virginia
Wake Forest
Boston College

Stay with an 8 game league schedule. Only four teams in each division have a permanent crossover partner:

Clemson - Ga Tech
Florida St - Miami
Va Tech - Virginia
NC State - UNC

The teams without a permanent partner play two opponents 6 times every 12 years and the third 4 times every 12 years. The other 4 teams, of course, they only play twice because they have a permanent crossover.

For example:
Louisville plays Wake and Duke 6 times and BC 4.
Syracuse plays BC and Wake 6, and Duke 4
Pitt plays BC and Duke 6 and Wake 4

That results in:
Wake plays Louisville and Syracuse 6 and Pitt 4
BC gets Pitt and Syracuse 6, Louisville 4
Duke has Louisville and Pitt 6, and Syracuse 4

The first year, Notre Dame plays Florida St, Syracuse and UNC. The second year, they play Clemson, BC and Miami. The other two games rotate among the remaining eight schools. So the Irish play six teams every other year, and eight teams every fourth year.

Any schools that mutually want to play each other more often may do so. For example, NC State, which has been cut off from most of the original ACC members, could try to schedule two games against Wake, Duke or Virginia OOC when they aren't scheduled in conference.

This still allows teams with an annual P5 rival to keep those games. Clemson and FSU could rotate another tough P5 opponent with Notre Dame every other year, and still keep 7 home games. That, plus the beefed up division slate, should help both their SOS and gate revenues.

The divisions aren't as balanced as they are now. Four of the five private schools are lumped into one division, and most of the large stadiums are in the other. Some schools might not get Notre Dame as often as they would like. But as I said, there is no one solution that will make everybody happy all the time. I'm trying to find one that causes the least unhappiness for the most schools.

I think this arrangement gives weaker teams easier league schedules. Hopefully, that helps get more teams bowl eligible, which helps the whole league. The downside is that the better teams will have a tougher path to the CFP, as they will all have at least six tough games every year. For every plus, there is a minus. So pick your poison.

¡Ay, caramba!

(06-14-2016 09:42 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I tends to like this realignment:

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Works for me :)

The MAN is keeping me DOWN! Fight the power!

(06-14-2016 09:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How about this then?

EAST
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Duke
UNC
Virginia
Va Tech

SOUTH
Louisville
NC State
Wake Forest
Clemson
Ga Tech
Florida St
Miami

Done, perfect, put a bow on it. Make it happen.

Keep eight games.

The access to Florida is way overblown here. Big 10 and Big 12 schools are recruiting all over Florida with no conference access. How often does Ole Miss play in Florida? Or Arkansas? Getting your brain stomped in at Doak Campbell every other year isn't how you recruit Florida, it's hard work, identifying talent, etc. I think that as the ACC hires more recruiting-savvy coaches, this isn't going to be a big issue anymore. Having an awareness in Florida through the conference, without having to actually PLAY FSU every year, is a good thing.

Besides, in this scenario those East schools would be getting a game versus Miami, FSU or GT most years anyway.

The flip side of that is those schools have a legit chance to elevate themselves. We've seen it with Iowa, Missouri, whoever...you put together 10-11 wins, weak division or not, and you're going to get hype. Everybody in that east division is probably better primed for success as a program as a result.

The South will be tough enough for it's champ to get respect every year, and the north will be primed for someone to run up 10 wins every year. Balance is way overrated. Follow the Big 10's lead here and make it happen.

(06-14-2016 09:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  How about this then?

EAST
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Duke
UNC
Virginia
Va Tech

SOUTH
Louisville
NC State
Wake Forest
Clemson
Ga Tech
Florida St
Miami

PRO: (1) it IS geographical; (2) it only requires ONE protected crossover game (UNC/NC State); (3) It keeps Duke/UNC/UVa together

CON: (1) it's not balanced - most of the best teams are in the SOUTH division; (2) It would virtually necessitate a 9-game schedule to provide enough exposure to Florida for the EAST division teams.

IMO, the #1 goal is to keep an 8 game schedule. If there is only 1 protected crossover, it's easier to have zero protected crossovers and just let those two teams play OOC.

How important is exposure to Florida in reality?

And what's up with "East" and "South"? Shouldn't "East" be named "North", or would the Confederate state schools in VA and NC "rebel" against that?

I'm told that UVA and UNC would never accept being in a "North" division... But no one ever said anything about "East".

If you prefer East and West that's fine too.

We have the summer, let's all submit a different divisional lineup & have a series of voting. The last divisional lineup standing gets submitted to the commish with the official CSNbbs ACC board seal of approval. I'm sure that would carry a lot of weight & be implemented for the 2018 football season.

We already have some nice proposals. Here is my submission.

South
FSU
Clemson
GT
NC
Duke
Virginia
WF

East
Miami
VT
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
NC State
BC

8 game schedule. FSU/Miami, VT/Virginia & NC/NC State are the only permanent rivalries.

Switch Syracuse and VaTech. I said that long ago.

Syracuse-BC
Pitt-Louisville
UVa-VaTech

You run the risk of a rematch in the title game for the Virginia schools and SU/BC though.

(06-14-2016 10:43 AM)esayem Wrote:  Switch Syracuse and VaTech. I said that long ago.

Syracuse-BC
Pitt-Louisville
UVa-VaTech

You run the risk of a rematch in the title game for the Virginia schools and SU/BC though.

EAST: BC, Cuse, Pitt, UVA, VT, UNC, Duke
SOUTH: UL, NC St, Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

After adding Notre Dame and West Virginia it gets a lot easier:

North:
Notre Dame
Louisville
Miami
Boston College
Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia
Virginia Tech

South:
UVa
Wake Forest
Dook
Carolina
State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Florida State

(06-14-2016 11:17 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

EAST: BC, Cuse, Pitt, UVA, VT, UNC, Duke
SOUTH: UL, NC St, Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

I could live with either of the following:

North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, VT, UNC, Duke
South: UL, NCSU, WF, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

OR

East: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, VT, UL, Miami, WF
Atlantic: UNC, NCSU, Duke, Clemson, GT, FSU

The second one is actually more desirable because it acknowledges that the conference is essentially a merger of the old Big East and the old ACC. The division names would even point to that. It would preserve historic rivalries for each side. The only permanent crossovers would be Miami-FSU and VT-UVa. The East would get their access to Florida via annual games with Miami. WF would have to take one for the team and agree to be the only old ACC school in the East division. They would get to play the other NC schools more often since there would be no permanent crossover rivals for them.

Boston College
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

let's do away with division ...

ONE SIZE FITS ALL

(06-14-2016 11:37 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(06-14-2016 11:17 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

EAST: BC, Cuse, Pitt, UVA, VT, UNC, Duke
SOUTH: UL, NC St, Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

I could live with either of the following:

North: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, VT, UNC, Duke
South: UL, NCSU, WF, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

OR

East: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, VT, UL, Miami, WF
Atlantic: UNC, NCSU, Duke, Clemson, GT, FSU

The second one is actually more desirable because it acknowledges that the conference is essentially a merger of the old Big East and the old ACC. The division names would even point to that. It would preserve historic rivalries for each side. The only permanent crossovers would be Miami-FSU and VT-UVa. The East would get their access to Florida via annual games with Miami. WF would have to take one for the team and agree to be the only old ACC school in the East division. They would get to play the other NC schools more often since there would be no permanent crossover rivals for them.

I prefer the first one, because I like the geography better.

I can live with the second one though, and the second one being more balanced probably gives it a hell of a lot better chance of going through.

(06-14-2016 11:17 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

EAST: BC, Cuse, Pitt, UVA, VT, UNC, Duke
SOUTH: UL, NC St, Wake, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

Perhaps East/West divisions?

Maybe skipping that whole Yankee/Rebel nomenclature is best......