(04-28-2016 02:29 AM)pono Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(04-26-2016 04:01 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-26-2016 03:53 PM)chuckwalker Wrote:  The argument of dropping sports to save money is certainly one people can make; however, I was surprised in the inaccuracy of the recommendations.

* Having the whole MAC reduce scholarships- should have been included in the drop to FCS level- that would actually reduce the scholarships from 85 to 63 or whatever and keep travel costs the same.

As if all other 11 MAC are going to agree to use far fewer than 85 scholarships each, all to help out Eastern Michigan?

For once I agree with you. EMU will have to deal with its own problems.

If I was EMU this is what I'd do.

1) Move to an OU style 6 home game, easy opponent schedule.
2) Night games early in the season to avoid UM.
3) Take out 4k seats to for advertising space and video boards.
4) Family day packages at Rynearson with a kids zone.
5) Give Creighton a long term 8 or 10 year contract to change the culture.

They've got to target the minor league type fan, families looking for a cheap experience.

If done right they could push attendance above 10,000 with 20k once in a while. Near the bottom of the MAC but not as bad as it is today.

Again if a few Boise State type schools develop in the MAC, EMU could sell out for those games if it had a core 10k of fans every week.

emu couldn't get 10,000 into rynerson if the were giving out Hilary's deleted emails and Bernie's free tuition. and even if they did the stadium would only be a third full. I haven't fact checked it, but one article said the students are putting $1000 a year into the program and none of them not in the band are showing up.

I didn't say target students I said target families with night games like minor league baseball.

Its not impossible to believe that EMU could build up to 10,000 and make a few bowl games. They don't have to be perfect but just a better version of EMU.

(04-28-2016 05:58 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(04-28-2016 02:29 AM)pono Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(04-26-2016 04:01 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-26-2016 03:53 PM)chuckwalker Wrote:  The argument of dropping sports to save money is certainly one people can make; however, I was surprised in the inaccuracy of the recommendations.

* Having the whole MAC reduce scholarships- should have been included in the drop to FCS level- that would actually reduce the scholarships from 85 to 63 or whatever and keep travel costs the same.

As if all other 11 MAC are going to agree to use far fewer than 85 scholarships each, all to help out Eastern Michigan?

For once I agree with you. EMU will have to deal with its own problems.

If I was EMU this is what I'd do.

1) Move to an OU style 6 home game, easy opponent schedule.
2) Night games early in the season to avoid UM.
3) Take out 4k seats to for advertising space and video boards.
4) Family day packages at Rynearson with a kids zone.
5) Give Creighton a long term 8 or 10 year contract to change the culture.

They've got to target the minor league type fan, families looking for a cheap experience.

If done right they could push attendance above 10,000 with 20k once in a while. Near the bottom of the MAC but not as bad as it is today.

Again if a few Boise State type schools develop in the MAC, EMU could sell out for those games if it had a core 10k of fans every week.

emu couldn't get 10,000 into rynerson if the were giving out Hilary's deleted emails and Bernie's free tuition. and even if they did the stadium would only be a third full. I haven't fact checked it, but one article said the students are putting $1000 a year into the program and none of them not in the band are showing up.

I didn't say target students I said target families with night games like minor league baseball.

Its not impossible to believe that EMU could build up to 10,000 and make a few bowl games. They don't have to be perfect but just a better version of EMU.

Two or three years ago I was there when the stadium was legit near half full. Granted, it was Toledo and a couple thousand were Toledo fans but there was a big crowd, jump castle thingies for kids, bands playing- I was impressed by nearly everything but the programs and the product on the field.

(04-26-2016 03:53 PM)chuckwalker Wrote:  * Having the whole MAC reduce scholarships- should have been included in the drop to FCS level- that would actually reduce the scholarships from 85 to 63 or whatever and keep travel costs the same.

This is EMU's endgame. Bring down the entire MAC.

We've always known EMU doesn't belong at the Division 1 level, but where they are very good is poisoning the perception of their "peers," holding them back just enough to allow them to keep up the charade.

(04-28-2016 02:29 AM)pono Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 09:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(04-26-2016 04:01 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(04-26-2016 03:53 PM)chuckwalker Wrote:  The argument of dropping sports to save money is certainly one people can make; however, I was surprised in the inaccuracy of the recommendations.

* Having the whole MAC reduce scholarships- should have been included in the drop to FCS level- that would actually reduce the scholarships from 85 to 63 or whatever and keep travel costs the same.

As if all other 11 MAC are going to agree to use far fewer than 85 scholarships each, all to help out Eastern Michigan?

For once I agree with you. EMU will have to deal with its own problems.

If I was EMU this is what I'd do.

1) Move to an OU style 6 home game, easy opponent schedule.
2) Night games early in the season to avoid UM.
3) Take out 4k seats to for advertising space and video boards.
4) Family day packages at Rynearson with a kids zone.
5) Give Creighton a long term 8 or 10 year contract to change the culture.

They've got to target the minor league type fan, families looking for a cheap experience.

If done right they could push attendance above 10,000 with 20k once in a while. Near the bottom of the MAC but not as bad as it is today.

Again if a few Boise State type schools develop in the MAC, EMU could sell out for those games if it had a core 10k of fans every week.

emu couldn't get 10,000 into rynerson if the were giving out Hilary's deleted emails and Bernie's free tuition. and even if they did the stadium would only be a third full. I haven't fact checked it, but one article said the students are putting $1000 a year into the program and none of them not in the band are showing up.

You should probably fact check it before posting it, because that's how this BS starts.

The "general fee" that everyone keeps talking about is $29.45 per credit hour and also covers the health center, performing arts, computer labs, facilities, and student government.

http://www.emich.edu/sbs/basics/tuition/index.php

The attendance issue is mistakenly considered to be part of this story. Even if EMU were to average 15k the ticket revenue would still only be less than 2 million. A drop in the budget bucket. Isn't ESPN revenue much higher?

HBO jackasses made no attempt to contact the athletic dept for this. Typical media.

The reality is that if EMU goes FCS they'll be out of the MAC and can say goodbye to ESPN revenue and payday games at the big $ schools.

This subject has nothing to do with attendance.

(05-02-2016 10:44 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The attendance issue is mistakenly considered to be part of this story. Even if EMU were to average 15k the ticket revenue would still only be less than 2 million. A drop in the budget bucket. Isn't ESPN revenue much higher?

HBO jackasses made no attempt to contact the athletic dept for this. Typical media.

The reality is that if EMU goes FCS they'll be out of the MAC and can say goodbye to ESPN revenue and payday games at the big $ schools.

This subject has nothing to do with attendance.

'Nickle is correct.

Only a few MAC teams have been successful in working out OOC (home) game, e.g., TOL vs. OSU at Cleveland or CMU and WMU hosting MSU which produce huge gates.

However, these have happened once under unusual agreements.

I doubt CMU and MSU will get another such deal in the future.

As 'Nickle indicated, getting 12K fans paying $15 each (plus 3K students getting in without charge)for a typical MAC conference game isn't exactly a haul.

Even 25K fans per game @ at $25 / ticket is still a drop in the bucket.

UofM(aryland) had to move to the B1G because that conference is flush with $ because of very, very rich television contracts...

Before that, Maryland had athletic department deficits as large or larger as virtually any MAC team.

One trump card EMU does have to play is a possible CFL franchise based in Windsor ONT that could play it's games at Rynearson. The CFL would like to expand in Canada but getting the $ to build a stadium is almost imposisble. Ypsi is not far from Windsor and it's size would be a perfect fit for a CFL franchise.

There could be some schedule issues but most of the CFL season is played from June to Labor Day weekend. The Athletic Department could make some serious $ on a stadium rental deal.

Rynearson is a great stadium for this conference. scheduling night games in Sept & Oct with family ticket & Experience packages (bounce houses, bubble machines, mazes, face painting) could get their fans in the stands attendance up to 15K.

(05-02-2016 01:48 PM)Policiious Wrote:  One trump card EMU does have to play is a possible CFL franchise based in Windsor ONT that could play it's games at Rynearson. The CFL would like to expand in Canada but getting the $ to build a stadium is almost imposisble. Ypsi is not far from Windsor and it's size would be a perfect fit for a CFL franchise.

There could be some schedule issues but most of the CFL season is played from June to Labor Day weekend. The Athletic Department could make some serious $ on a stadium rental deal.

Rynearson is a great stadium for this conference. scheduling night games in Sept & Oct with family ticket & Experience packages (bounce houses, bubble machines, mazes, face painting) could get their fans in the stands attendance up to 15K.

So the CFL fans in Windsor would have cross an international border in order to watch the home team?? Don't know how feasible this would be.

(05-02-2016 02:25 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(05-02-2016 01:48 PM)Policiious Wrote:  One trump card EMU does have to play is a possible CFL franchise based in Windsor ONT that could play it's games at Rynearson. The CFL would like to expand in Canada but getting the $ to build a stadium is almost imposisble. Ypsi is not far from Windsor and it's size would be a perfect fit for a CFL franchise.

There could be some schedule issues but most of the CFL season is played from June to Labor Day weekend. The Athletic Department could make some serious $ on a stadium rental deal.

Rynearson is a great stadium for this conference. scheduling night games in Sept & Oct with family ticket & Experience packages (bounce houses, bubble machines, mazes, face painting) could get their fans in the stands attendance up to 15K.

So the CFL fans in Windsor would have cross an international border in order to watch the home team?? Don't know how feasible this would be.

He also thought Chicago would be a good place for a CFL franchise.

(05-02-2016 10:52 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(05-02-2016 10:44 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The attendance issue is mistakenly considered to be part of this story. Even if EMU were to average 15k the ticket revenue would still only be less than 2 million. A drop in the budget bucket. Isn't ESPN revenue much higher?

HBO jackasses made no attempt to contact the athletic dept for this. Typical media.

The reality is that if EMU goes FCS they'll be out of the MAC and can say goodbye to ESPN revenue and payday games at the big $ schools.

This subject has nothing to do with attendance.

'Nickle is correct.

Only a few MAC teams have been successful in working out OOC (home) game, e.g., TOL vs. OSU at Cleveland or CMU and WMU hosting MSU which produce huge gates.

However, these have happened once under unusual agreements.

I doubt CMU and MSU will get another such deal in the future.

As 'Nickle indicated, getting 12K fans paying $15 each (plus 3K students getting in without charge)for a typical MAC conference game isn't exactly a haul.

Even 25K fans per game @ at $25 / ticket is still a drop in the bucket.

UofM(aryland) had to move to the B1G because that conference is flush with $ because of very, very rich television contracts...

Before that, Maryland had athletic department deficits as large or larger as virtually any MAC team.

You're both right that attendance does comparatively little to balance budgets, but it is hugely important when it comes to perception. All MAC students have no choice but to subsidize athletic departments through fees. If they never go to games and know no one who goes to games, and it is well known that no one goes to games, they are going to question that fee a lot more rigorously than they might if the stadium is packed.

(05-02-2016 10:44 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The attendance issue is mistakenly considered to be part of this story. Even if EMU were to average 15k the ticket revenue would still only be less than 2 million. A drop in the budget bucket. Isn't ESPN revenue much higher?

Well, no, not much higher.

$10m ESPN + $10m CFP ($1m/school capped at $10m/conference) spread across 12 schools is $1.7m, plus $300K if a school meets APR for post-season participation would make a total of about $2m. There's more CFP money available based on the position of the MAC versus the other four, but not a massive amount more. Plus the $10m ESPN deal seems to be more of a gross revenue than a net revenue figure, since it does include some costs of upgrading media facilities to allow all MAC conference games to be covered on ESPN3.

So if it is about $1.8m, it would be under ESPN+CFP money, but not "much" under.

If EMU leaves the MAC and drops down to FCS, it faces increased travel costs. Between higher travel costs ~ in both its FCS Football conference and whichever Division 1 BBall conference EMU might convince to take them ... and add in the loss in ESPN+CFP money ... and it's by no means an open and shut financial case in favor of dropping from FBS to FCS.

(05-02-2016 10:12 PM)Copy Cat Wrote:  You're both right that attendance does comparatively little to balance budgets, but it is hugely important when it comes to perception. All MAC students have no choice but to subsidize athletic departments through fees. If they never go to games and know no one who goes to games, and it is well known that no one goes to games, they are going to question that fee a lot more rigorously than they might if the stadium is packed.

Though EMU has two tracks to attack this, since if EMU could both continue to improve it's BBall performance in the MAC and also boost it's BBall attendance, that also takes pressure off.

Maybe instead of "HS Band Day" at the stadium, EMU should work on "HS Spirit Squad Days" at the arena. Host a competition, the top three get to perform at halftime.

(05-02-2016 02:25 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(05-02-2016 01:48 PM)Policiious Wrote:  One trump card EMU does have to play is a possible CFL franchise based in Windsor ONT that could play it's games at Rynearson. The CFL would like to expand in Canada but getting the $ to build a stadium is almost imposisble. Ypsi is not far from Windsor and it's size would be a perfect fit for a CFL franchise.

There could be some schedule issues but most of the CFL season is played from June to Labor Day weekend. The Athletic Department could make some serious $ on a stadium rental deal.

Rynearson is a great stadium for this conference. scheduling night games in Sept & Oct with family ticket & Experience packages (bounce houses, bubble machines, mazes, face painting) could get their fans in the stands attendance up to 15K

So the CFL fans in Windsor would have cross an international border in order to watch the home team?? Don't know how feasible this would be.

Tigers, Lions, Pistons & Red Wing fans in Windsor are already crossing the Peace Bridge to watch MLB, NFL, NBA & NHL contests. Put enough Michigan, MSU & Michigan MAC alums on the team and a decent number of Michiganders might also attend. The CFL needs a 10th team to even out their divisions and no Canadian city has the $ to build a new stadium. Rynearson is the perfect size for a CFL team. Most of the CFL season is over by Labor Day weekend when NCAA football begins.

EMU should get a sizeable check from the CFL franchise that could be used to increase athletic funding or reduce the student fee portion that the AD currently receives. Windsor is 36 miles from Ypsilanti or about the same distance as Naperville is from downtown Chicago

(05-08-2016 05:12 PM)Policiious Wrote:  Windsor is 36 miles from Ypsilanti or about the same distance as Naperville is from downtown Chicago

In other words, it wouldn't be at all convenient for Canadians. Crossing the border is not convenient -- the Ambassador Bridge is a mess quite often -- and to have to drive 40 minutes on top of that?

It would be one thing if they put a CFL team in Ford Field (which has open dates!) or a downtown Detroit soccer stadium.

But Ypsilanti? It seems like a stretch.

I just don't think it would be a very good idea to have a CFL representing Windsor playing their home games across an international boarder. For one, as Schadenfreude mentioned, the Ambassador Bridge gets pretty congested sometimes. I remember it taking us darn near an hour to get through during weekend traffic a few years ago. And then you'd have to make another 40 mile commute after that? No thanks.

And then there's the fact that Canadians need passports to get in and out of the United States now... I don't know the percentage of people living in Windsor with passports, but I do know that there's a lot of circumstances that might prevent a Windsor resident from crossing the border to see their home team play. For instance, anyone who was ever caught in their lifetime driving under the influence is banned from crossing the border into the United States... So if you're a middle aged person living in Windsor who screwed up once in your younger years, no attending home games for you.

Dear MAC Members,
There is also a tunnel connecting Windsor and Detroit to somewhat ease traffic congestion, but I think the whole point of a Canadian Football team playing in Ypsilanti is dumb. Even playing in Detroit is dumb. This is a non-starter.

The CFL wants to even out it's divisions (at 9 total teams) and no Canadian city or Province will spend the $ needed to build a football stadium for a 10th CFL franchise. They also do not want to locate a new franchise in any proximity to an exisiting CFL team which is why Quebec City, London and a 2nd Saskatchewan franchise have not gone forward.

Windsor is one of the largest Canadian cities without a franchise and being that a top 10 sized American metro region sits across the Detroit River from Windsor makes them a better choice than any other. Windsor does not have a football sized stadium avaiable, I doubt the Lions would allow another football franchise to use Ford Field and Rynearson is larger than most if not all MLS stadiums in seating capacity.

Rynearson is also a closer drive from Windsor than Huskie Stadium is from most Chicago suburbs where NIU alums live.

It may be a non starter but it's a better choice than any other Canadian city that doesn't have a franchise

Personally, I think Quebec City would make more sense for the CFL. More Canadians in that market.

Yeah, I'm not buying a "Windsor" team playing 45 minutes out of the city and across a country border, but for the sake of argument lets say it is a feasible solution. Renting out the stadium 8x per year at 100k per game would only reduce the current $917 subsidy the students pay by $37.

I'd put a 10th CFL team in Atlantic Canada somewhere. Either Halifax, Nova Scotia or Moncton, New Brunswick. Moncton's got a stadium already, but is lacking in the population department. However, a Moncton team would be the only professional football team for the whole Maritime region. There are 1.8+ million people living in the Maritimes, which is 700,000 people more than the province of Saskatchewan.

If they could build a solid fan base, they could be the next Saskatchewan Roughriders.

(05-19-2016 05:05 PM)Policiious Wrote:  The CFL wants to even out it's divisions (at 9 total teams) and no Canadian city or Province will spend the $ needed to build a football stadium for a 10th CFL franchise. They also do not want to locate a new franchise in any proximity to an exisiting CFL team which is why Quebec City, London and a 2nd Saskatchewan franchise have not gone forward.

Windsor is one of the largest Canadian cities without a franchise and being that a top 10 sized American metro region sits across the Detroit River from Windsor makes them a better choice than any other. Windsor does not have a football sized stadium avaiable, I doubt the Lions would allow another football franchise to use Ford Field and Rynearson is larger than most if not all MLS stadiums in seating capacity.

Rynearson is also a closer drive from Windsor than Huskie Stadium is from most Chicago suburbs where NIU alums live.

It may be a non starter but it's a better choice than any other Canadian city that doesn't have a franchise

The solution, not imminent, would be to await Detroit getting a MLS franchise and lease dates from their stadium. Gilbert and Gores are trying to get a stadium site where the new jail was being built (stalled and may or may not resume. TBD).

That stadium would be in Detroit, maybe near Comerica/Ford Field/new arena or, if that fails, maybe along the river front.

That would work for Windsor folks who are used to crossing over for say Tigers' games...