I love what the Bengals have done in the off season

Didn't over pay to keep Marvin Jones or Sanu.

Locked up Shawn Williams and Gio at team friend deals and resigned Pacman.

Didn't reach in the draft for position of needs and continued drafting best player available.

(06-09-2016 11:05 AM)MercerCo_BearCat Wrote:  His coaching can be questionable, but he'd be a good person to keep around. Not really on an owner level, but a inbetween.

You need someone that can make sure Mike Brown limits his stupidity. Marvin Lewis has proven successful at doing that and has the owner's trust and ear for doing so.

People need to think back to the pre-Lewis era and remember how disastrous the team was on the field and in the front office. Incredibly understaffed compared to every other team in the league and you had Mike Brown playing a pivotal role in everything.

I feel about Marvin exactly how I feel about Dusty Baker. Mediocre game coach but his teams respect him and play really hard for him. That's why they win; motivating players is far more important than game day decision making.

There aren't many coaches who have made 5 straight playoffs without elite QB play.

(06-09-2016 12:20 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  I feel about Marvin exactly how I feel about Dusty Baker. Mediocre game coach but his teams respect him and play really hard for him. That's why they win; motivating players is far more important than game day decision making.

There aren't many coaches who have made 5 straight playoffs without elite QB play.

Mediocre is a reasonable opinion. I think he's a better game coach than people getting credit for, but does somethings that people react very poorly to. A few examples of what I like about Marvin:

1. I think he has been really good with the challenge flag in recent years. Seems to throw it at the right time for the right plays.
2. He has been really good with timeouts in the second half. I think almost every game we had all our timeouts when we needed them in the second half. In first half it seems like he's basically decided not to worry about it calling timeouts if it means getting things right. I don't know if it's absolutely the right play, but it's interesting prioritizing that I actually do get the logic to.
3. He's aggressive on 4th down between the 30-40 yard line. This has probably been my favorite thing about Marvin's in game coaching (and an area where I think he wasn't good early in his career). The Bengals go for it a ton in these situations and not just on 4th and short. I've seen many 4th and 3-8 yards where Marvin doesn't settle for the FG. My favorite was I think they went on 4th and 15 and converted in the first half of a game from the 40 a couple seasons ago. Punting not a great idea there and Marvin has played these well.
4. He's mostly very aggressive on 4th and less than a yard, trusting in his offensive line (particularly inside the 5).
5. The defenses always seem to have a good gameplan for the best QBs in the league. It's amazing some of the performances they've put together against guys like Rapelsburger, Brady and Rodgers (certainly our DCs deserve credit too).

My biggest Marvin complaint is that I think his clock management is confusing at times and often bad late in the first half. It seems like Marvin is still more concerned with not screwing up in the first half and plays more to win in the second. I think they've left some points off the board late in the half of games.

His teams aren't flashy, but they are consistently efficient on both sides of the ball which seems good to me.

(06-09-2016 11:20 AM)HoopsJunky Wrote:  I love what the Bengals have done in the off season

Didn't over pay to keep Marvin Jones or Sanu.

Locked up Shawn Williams and Gio at team friend deals and resigned Pacman.

Didn't reach in the draft for position of needs and continued drafting best player available.

Losing Jones will hurt more than they realize. He split the coverage so that Andy had open targets. I don't know if any of the rookies they picked up can do that.

As for LaFell....we'll see.

It seems like most people think Duke Tobin(sp?) is another reason for the Bengals great drafting over the recent years.

(06-09-2016 04:05 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  It seems like most people think Duke Tobin(sp?) is another reason for the Bengals great drafting over the recent years.

I think there is plenty of credit to go around, but I think the big constant has been Marvin Lewis's direction. From everything I've read about the Bengals it's a team effort in the draft room with Mike Brown still being involved as well, but I think Marvin's found a way to work within that framework so that people are on his page when it comes to what they need to sustain success. Dick Tobin is clearly doing a really good job of helping the Bengals find the guys they can develop to be successful NFL players.

I really want to see this team break through, because I really think the organization has built something impressive in how they have sustained success, but it's hard to get the credit you deserve when you don't win playoff games. Really a shame Dalton went down last year as that team was a clear Super Bowl Contender.

I like Marvin overall as well. The one thing I want to change, and I don't know if this is more Marvin or the (former) OC, but taking their foot off the gas on offense once they get a lead has killed them over the years...

The game late in the year at Denver last year really stands out. Up 14-0 & missed a field goal to end the half. Second half was all Jeremy Hill up the middle & 2 yard dump offs. I get playing safer on O with a backup QB but not just shutting it down. Win that game & Bengals get a bye while Broncos sit home watching.

But we know how all that turned out.

(06-09-2016 04:42 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:05 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  It seems like most people think Duke Tobin(sp?) is another reason for the Bengals great drafting over the recent years.

I think there is plenty of credit to go around, but I think the big constant has been Marvin Lewis's direction. From everything I've read about the Bengals it's a team effort in the draft room with Mike Brown still being involved as well, but I think Marvin's found a way to work within that framework so that people are on his page when it comes to what they need to sustain success. Dick Tobin is clearly doing a really good job of helping the Bengals find the guys they can develop to be successful NFL players.

I don't get the same impression about Marvin as you. He's likable enough, but I'm never very impressed listening to him in interviews or press conferences or Hard Knocks nor with the clips of his locker room speeches. I get that none of that necessarily means he's a bad coach, but I think he's been really fortunate with the talent that's been given to him both on the field and with his coaching staff. I'm sure he plays an important role in both of those, but I give a ton of credit to Tobin and to be honest I also give a lot to the front office (Katie, Mike, etc.) as unpopular as that may be.

I never wanted Marvin fired and still don't, but I wouldn't have been upset at all if he left a few years ago when he was hinting about it. And to be honest, if there was a smooth way to do it, I'd have rather "transitioned" him to the front office and kept Zimmer or Hue to replace him as HC before they left; maybe even Gruden. On that note, not that it proves anything, but I think there was a recent HC ranking put out by a relatively creditable source putting all 3 (Zimm, Hue and Gruden) ahead of Marvin which is kinda remarkable when you think about it. In the end, none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors across the NFL so it's all just speculation and whatever the Bengals are doing and whoever the primary drivers are it's working. The exception being the playoffs and I look at that as just a still fairly small sample of mostly specific circumstances rather than the "fault" of one person or even a small group of people.

(06-10-2016 05:25 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:42 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:05 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  It seems like most people think Duke Tobin(sp?) is another reason for the Bengals great drafting over the recent years.

I think there is plenty of credit to go around, but I think the big constant has been Marvin Lewis's direction. From everything I've read about the Bengals it's a team effort in the draft room with Mike Brown still being involved as well, but I think Marvin's found a way to work within that framework so that people are on his page when it comes to what they need to sustain success. Dick Tobin is clearly doing a really good job of helping the Bengals find the guys they can develop to be successful NFL players.

I don't get the same impression about Marvin as you. He's likable enough, but I'm never very impressed listening to him in interviews or press conferences or Hard Knocks nor with the clips of his locker room speeches. I get that none of that necessarily means he's a bad coach, but I think he's been really fortunate with the talent that's been given to him both on the field and with his coaching staff. I'm sure he plays an important role in both of those, but I give a ton of credit to Tobin and to be honest I also give a lot to the front office (Katie, Mike, etc.) as unpopular as that may be.

I never wanted Marvin fired and still don't, but I wouldn't have been upset at all if he left a few years ago when he was hinting about it. And to be honest, if there was a smooth way to do it, I'd have rather "transitioned" him to the front office and kept Zimmer or Hue to replace him as HC before they left; maybe even Gruden. On that note, not that it proves anything, but I think there was a recent HC ranking put out by a relatively creditable source putting all 3 (Zimm, Hue and Gruden) ahead of Marvin which is kinda remarkable when you think about it. In the end, none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors across the NFL so it's all just speculation and whatever the Bengals are doing and whoever the primary drivers are it's working. The exception being the playoffs and I look at that as just a still fairly small sample of mostly specific circumstances rather than the "fault" of one person or even a small group of people.

I really wanted Zimmer to be the next coach..too bad they let him walk. He's the real deal.

(06-10-2016 06:49 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 05:25 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:42 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:05 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  It seems like most people think Duke Tobin(sp?) is another reason for the Bengals great drafting over the recent years.

I think there is plenty of credit to go around, but I think the big constant has been Marvin Lewis's direction. From everything I've read about the Bengals it's a team effort in the draft room with Mike Brown still being involved as well, but I think Marvin's found a way to work within that framework so that people are on his page when it comes to what they need to sustain success. Dick Tobin is clearly doing a really good job of helping the Bengals find the guys they can develop to be successful NFL players.

I don't get the same impression about Marvin as you. He's likable enough, but I'm never very impressed listening to him in interviews or press conferences or Hard Knocks nor with the clips of his locker room speeches. I get that none of that necessarily means he's a bad coach, but I think he's been really fortunate with the talent that's been given to him both on the field and with his coaching staff. I'm sure he plays an important role in both of those, but I give a ton of credit to Tobin and to be honest I also give a lot to the front office (Katie, Mike, etc.) as unpopular as that may be.

I never wanted Marvin fired and still don't, but I wouldn't have been upset at all if he left a few years ago when he was hinting about it. And to be honest, if there was a smooth way to do it, I'd have rather "transitioned" him to the front office and kept Zimmer or Hue to replace him as HC before they left; maybe even Gruden. On that note, not that it proves anything, but I think there was a recent HC ranking put out by a relatively creditable source putting all 3 (Zimm, Hue and Gruden) ahead of Marvin which is kinda remarkable when you think about it. In the end, none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors across the NFL so it's all just speculation and whatever the Bengals are doing and whoever the primary drivers are it's working. The exception being the playoffs and I look at that as just a still fairly small sample of mostly specific circumstances rather than the "fault" of one person or even a small group of people.

I really wanted Zimmer to be the next coach..too bad they let him walk. He's the real deal.

I like Hue a lot and I'd say it's still a very real possibility that he ends up as our HC. After 3 years awhen Cleveland fires him Marvin can move upstairs and Hue can takeover.

(06-10-2016 05:25 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:42 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:05 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  It seems like most people think Duke Tobin(sp?) is another reason for the Bengals great drafting over the recent years.

I think there is plenty of credit to go around, but I think the big constant has been Marvin Lewis's direction. From everything I've read about the Bengals it's a team effort in the draft room with Mike Brown still being involved as well, but I think Marvin's found a way to work within that framework so that people are on his page when it comes to what they need to sustain success. Dick Tobin is clearly doing a really good job of helping the Bengals find the guys they can develop to be successful NFL players.

I don't get the same impression about Marvin as you. He's likable enough, but I'm never very impressed listening to him in interviews or press conferences or Hard Knocks nor with the clips of his locker room speeches. I get that none of that necessarily means he's a bad coach, but I think he's been really fortunate with the talent that's been given to him both on the field and with his coaching staff. I'm sure he plays an important role in both of those, but I give a ton of credit to Tobin and to be honest I also give a lot to the front office (Katie, Mike, etc.) as unpopular as that may be.

I never wanted Marvin fired and still don't, but I wouldn't have been upset at all if he left a few years ago when he was hinting about it. And to be honest, if there was a smooth way to do it, I'd have rather "transitioned" him to the front office and kept Zimmer or Hue to replace him as HC before they left; maybe even Gruden. On that note, not that it proves anything, but I think there was a recent HC ranking put out by a relatively creditable source putting all 3 (Zimm, Hue and Gruden) ahead of Marvin which is kinda remarkable when you think about it. In the end, none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors across the NFL so it's all just speculation and whatever the Bengals are doing and whoever the primary drivers are it's working. The exception being the playoffs and I look at that as just a still fairly small sample of mostly specific circumstances rather than the "fault" of one person or even a small group of people.

I know you've stated that position before, but I think it is telling that even as assistants have continued to leave Marvin has continued to win. He had Zimm and Gruden and just quickly promoted guys from within who had worked with Marvin for a long time. I firmly believe Marvin is really good at managing a football team, bringing along talented players and really getting the most out of his assistants. It's amazing to me how many of these guys get sought out and a testament to the system he has put in place that he continues to win even as he loses those guys.

I think it's crazy to talk about the staff and talent he's been given without focusing on Marvin's role in bringing in those guys and developing them. So many of these people are those that Marvin has built a relationship with or guys that he brought up over the years in the Bengals organization from lower level coaches to high level coaches. I think to many want to dismiss the role Marvin has had across the board in these areas.