(02-29-2016 02:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:15 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 01:39 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Personally, I think this is less of a coaching problem and more of a recruitment, scholarship problem.
All the games I've attended this year we have lost. So, I'll take some of the blame.
It's still early and I'm optimistic that we can regain our poise during the CUSA schedule.

The status quo people had their way in basketball and football. Look where that got us.

Those in charge more or less stood idly by as the conference landscape radically shifted. And the results of that were...?

So are we really going to go down the same path in baseball, our golden goose up to this point?

I'm not prescribing a solution here, just trying to make clear that, for a change, we need to be honest with ourselves before we find ourselves in yet another barely tenable situation.

Well luckily we are being proactive in facilities, but something has to be done about the root cause of our recent woes.

Are you more of the opinion that it is coaching, rather than player talent?

I'm not sure you can separate coaching and player talent. Isn't recruiting the right players a significant part of any coach's job?

(02-29-2016 02:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Well luckily we are being proactive in facilities, but something has to be done about the root cause of our recent woes.

Are you more of the opinion that it is coaching, rather than player talent?

I don't know; I'm not going to speculate at this time. There are many on this board who are close to the program, so I will let them debate this for the time being.

My point is simply that there needs to be a debate. Now. And then some action.

No one wants to hear this, but it's probably just time for WG to retire. He's very old. The program needs new blood. Give Lance Berkman a shot at it.

(02-29-2016 02:39 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  No one wants to hear this, but it's probably just time for WG to retire. He's very old. The program needs new blood. Give Lance Berkman a shot at it.

Bring Pierce back from Tulane. He has his head coaching experience now and the trajectories after he left Rice and SHS, and the current resurgence at Tulane signals his impact.

To be clear I don't think Wayne can't coach anymore, I think there is a perception among recruits that might be hindering us.

(02-29-2016 02:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Well luckily we are being proactive in facilities, but something has to be done about the root cause of our recent woes.

Are you more of the opinion that it is coaching, rather than player talent?

I don't know; I'm not going to speculate at this time. There are many on this board who are close to the program, so I will let them debate this for the time being.

My point is simply that there needs to be a debate. Now. And then some action.

Our fielding is far worse than teams that we out recruit considerably. That signifies that there is a problem with coaching/practice/. While we may be losing some of the top recruits, the kids we have playing have demonstrated that they can perform at the HS level - somehow this all gets unlearned here and we start fielding like little leaguers.

We need to fix this problem (just like we need to in Football). Get the guys we have to execute and play to their abilities. We seem to focus on trying to fix the problem by building new facilities or whatever.

(02-29-2016 02:57 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:31 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:20 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Well luckily we are being proactive in facilities, but something has to be done about the root cause of our recent woes.

Are you more of the opinion that it is coaching, rather than player talent?

I don't know; I'm not going to speculate at this time. There are many on this board who are close to the program, so I will let them debate this for the time being.

My point is simply that there needs to be a debate. Now. And then some action.

Our fielding is far worse than teams that we out recruit considerably. That signifies that there is a problem with coaching/practice/. While we may be losing some of the top recruits, the kids we have playing have demonstrated that they can perform at the HS level - somehow this all gets unlearned here and we start fielding like little leaguers.

We need to fix this problem (just like we need to in Football). Get the guys we have to execute and play to their abilities. We seem to focus on trying to fix the problem by building new facilities or whatever.

Seems tht the fielding has declined as the new assistants took over

(02-29-2016 02:43 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:39 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  No one wants to hear this, but it's probably just time for WG to retire. He's very old. The program needs new blood. Give Lance Berkman a shot at it.

Bring Pierce back from Tulane. He has his head coaching experience now and the trajectories after he left Rice and SHS, and the current resurgence at Tulane signals his impact.

To be clear I don't think Wayne can't coach anymore, I think there is a perception among recruits that might be hindering us.

He can still coach, but not anywhere near the level of ten years ago. He needs to be replaced. Lets just say it. The Pierce guy sounds like a candidate.

(02-29-2016 03:17 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:43 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:39 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  No one wants to hear this, but it's probably just time for WG to retire. He's very old. The program needs new blood. Give Lance Berkman a shot at it.

Bring Pierce back from Tulane. He has his head coaching experience now and the trajectories after he left Rice and SHS, and the current resurgence at Tulane signals his impact.

To be clear I don't think Wayne can't coach anymore, I think there is a perception among recruits that might be hindering us.

He can still coach, but not anywhere near the level of ten years ago. He needs to be replaced. Lets just say it. The Pierce guy sounds like a candidate.

I don't know if I would go that far, but a conversation about the current state of the program, and how it should be righted NEEDS to be had, and is hopefully ongoing.

I would imagine that a good portion of that is a transition plan for the OG, recognizing that he can't coach forever. I think that at this point, Wayne has earned the right to leave on his own terms, so I won't actively advocate for replacing him. But if he believes that it is his time to go, I would understand and thank him tremendously for all he has done for the university.

But hopefully he can figure out how to get the team on track and get us all to shut up.

(02-29-2016 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  ... get us all to shut up.

HA!

(02-29-2016 10:40 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Then we are looking at 10 years if the Mark Berman story is correct.

Berman story?

(02-29-2016 04:05 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 10:40 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Then we are looking at 10 years if the Mark Berman story is correct.

Berman story?

He said he wants to make it to 90...

(02-29-2016 03:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 03:17 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:43 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 02:39 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  No one wants to hear this, but it's probably just time for WG to retire. He's very old. The program needs new blood. Give Lance Berkman a shot at it.

Bring Pierce back from Tulane. He has his head coaching experience now and the trajectories after he left Rice and SHS, and the current resurgence at Tulane signals his impact.

To be clear I don't think Wayne can't coach anymore, I think there is a perception among recruits that might be hindering us.

He can still coach, but not anywhere near the level of ten years ago. He needs to be replaced. Lets just say it. The Pierce guy sounds like a candidate.

I don't know if I would go that far, but a conversation about the current state of the program, and how it should be righted NEEDS to be had, and is hopefully ongoing.

I would imagine that a good portion of that is a transition plan for the OG, recognizing that he can't coach forever. I think that at this point, Wayne has earned the right to leave on his own terms, so I won't actively advocate for replacing him. But if he believes that it is his time to go, I would understand and thank him tremendously for all he has done for the university.

But hopefully he can figure out how to get the team on track and get us all to shut up.

He certainly does deserve to go out on his own terms, I just hope it happens. The program has been dropping off for the past five years. I hope he decides to "leave on his own terms" soon. I'd hate to see him pressured out, because he may be doing more harm than good at this point.

Quote: He needs to be replaced. Lets just say it.

Let's not. He's a living legend and has done incredible things for this university for many years. I think he deserves every opportunity to get the program back to standards he alone is responsible for setting, and to determine the course of his exit. This would be true even if he were the only reason for our recent struggles, but as detailed here many times, that's certainly not the case (and is where the parallels to Bowden/Brown/Paterno fail-- those guys had every advantage and underperformed, whereas Graham has just stopped overperforming as much as we're used to).

(02-29-2016 01:39 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  Personally, I think this is less of a coaching problem and more of a recruitment, scholarship problem.
All the games I've attended this year we have lost. So, I'll take some of the blame.
It's still early and I'm optimistic that we can regain our poise during the CUSA schedule.

So you are saying that you won't be going to anymore games?

(02-29-2016 11:42 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:36 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:15 AM)Antarius Wrote:  I'm more concerned by the fact that we are playing undisciplined baseball. The fielding over the past few years has been ghastly; the mental mistakes almost to the level of the Football program.

We aren't playing to the level of the talent we have. We need to fix that first, then worry about getting better talent.

Almost? The number of errors we are seeing in baseball is horrendous. Last time I checked we are worse than 250th in the country for fielding and that was before our midweek debacles (another 5 errors).

We know you can't look at football objectively because of the coach but at least compare the players mistakes the same. You could even argue the baseball coaching decisions are worse than the football ones so far this year with the questionable bunts and pitching decisions.

We have 10 years of this in Football. Less in Baseball. So yeah, almost. Regardless, I'm not interested in a measuring contest of bad vs worse. Both are appalling right now.

As for the second point (bolded), no argument there.

10 years of this??!! Wow, did Bailiff not recruit you, or your kid? Now you are taking swipes at our players. Classy.

(02-29-2016 04:45 PM)tramile12 Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:42 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:36 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:15 AM)Antarius Wrote:  I'm more concerned by the fact that we are playing undisciplined baseball. The fielding over the past few years has been ghastly; the mental mistakes almost to the level of the Football program.

We aren't playing to the level of the talent we have. We need to fix that first, then worry about getting better talent.

Almost? The number of errors we are seeing in baseball is horrendous. Last time I checked we are worse than 250th in the country for fielding and that was before our midweek debacles (another 5 errors).

We know you can't look at football objectively because of the coach but at least compare the players mistakes the same. You could even argue the baseball coaching decisions are worse than the football ones so far this year with the questionable bunts and pitching decisions.

We have 10 years of this in Football. Less in Baseball. So yeah, almost. Regardless, I'm not interested in a measuring contest of bad vs worse. Both are appalling right now.

As for the second point (bolded), no argument there.

10 years of this??!! Wow, did Bailiff not recruit you, or your kid? Now you are taking swipes at our players. Classy.

May I recommend that you read before responding?

(02-29-2016 04:49 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 04:45 PM)tramile12 Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:42 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:36 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:15 AM)Antarius Wrote:  I'm more concerned by the fact that we are playing undisciplined baseball. The fielding over the past few years has been ghastly; the mental mistakes almost to the level of the Football program.

We aren't playing to the level of the talent we have. We need to fix that first, then worry about getting better talent.

Almost? The number of errors we are seeing in baseball is horrendous. Last time I checked we are worse than 250th in the country for fielding and that was before our midweek debacles (another 5 errors).

We know you can't look at football objectively because of the coach but at least compare the players mistakes the same. You could even argue the baseball coaching decisions are worse than the football ones so far this year with the questionable bunts and pitching decisions.

We have 10 years of this in Football. Less in Baseball. So yeah, almost. Regardless, I'm not interested in a measuring contest of bad vs worse. Both are appalling right now.

As for the second point (bolded), no argument there.

10 years of this??!! Wow, did Bailiff not recruit you, or your kid? Now you are taking swipes at our players. Classy.

May I recommend that you read before responding?

Yes, reread all of it. Even sounded it out. Came to the same conclusion. Why are you even bringing up football on a baseball thread? Your arguments are just so tired.

(02-29-2016 04:53 PM)tramile12 Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 04:49 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 04:45 PM)tramile12 Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:42 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-29-2016 11:36 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  Almost? The number of errors we are seeing in baseball is horrendous. Last time I checked we are worse than 250th in the country for fielding and that was before our midweek debacles (another 5 errors).

We know you can't look at football objectively because of the coach but at least compare the players mistakes the same. You could even argue the baseball coaching decisions are worse than the football ones so far this year with the questionable bunts and pitching decisions.

We have 10 years of this in Football. Less in Baseball. So yeah, almost. Regardless, I'm not interested in a measuring contest of bad vs worse. Both are appalling right now.

As for the second point (bolded), no argument there.

10 years of this??!! Wow, did Bailiff not recruit you, or your kid? Now you are taking swipes at our players. Classy.

May I recommend that you read before responding?

Yes, reread all of it. Even sounded it out. Came to the same conclusion. Why are you even bringing up football on a baseball thread? Your arguments are just so tired.

Again, read the posts before responding. Its abundantly clear as to why I linked football and baseball.

However to make it easy - Because we are seeing the same issue now in both. the problem isn't the players that we have - its that our execution is lacking. And until we fix that problem, no fancy buildings or money or anything will really move the needle. The issue is somehow in the last few years players who kicked ass in high school are coming to Rice and their fielding is atrocious all of a sudden; this needs to be addressed before anything else will really help. Same issue in Football - we have issues executing the option pitch somehow. When it happens repeatedly, its a practice, coaching and execution issue - not a player problem.

Not sure how you sounded this out and came up with a snarky conclusion.

(02-29-2016 04:32 PM)At Ease Wrote:  

Quote: He needs to be replaced. Lets just say it.

Let's not. He's a living legend and has done incredible things for this university for many years. I think he deserves every opportunity to get the program back to standards he alone is responsible for setting, and to determine the course of his exit. This would be true even if he were the only reason for our recent struggles, but as detailed here many times, that's certainly not the case (and is where the parallels to Bowden/Brown/Paterno fail-- those guys had every advantage and underperformed, whereas Graham has just stopped overperforming as much as we're used to).

What is it that's changed over the last five years in the baseball program that has caused it's decline? If none of it is Wayne Graham's fault, he should stay. If he has lost his edge, or energy level, he really does need to be encouraged to call it quits. The one thing that set Rice Baseball apart from everyone else over these years was the top 10 rankings and the trips to the CWS. It's easy to recruit kids into that environment, but those successes aren't happening anymore.

Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe. I am not naive enough to believe there are a lot of people not leaning in one direction or another. As to the slow start, do you not believe having four players miss Fall Ball could contribute to a slow start? My apologies for interrupting your current conversations.