(02-05-2016 05:00 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 03:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Jacksonville left in the wake of UCF leaving because they wanted to play in the A-Sun with other Florida schools and had a few snide comments when Florida International then announced they were leaving the A-Sun to join the Sun Belt (and this was prior to FIU even studying adding football which came a few years later).

Uttering the word Lamar shows you have no clue.

Lamar was a member of the Sun Belt thanks to the American South / Sun Belt merger. The American South had Louisiana Lafayette, Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar playing football, Tech and AState upgraded to I-A and all had a handshake deal to play each other until such time they could start football in the league. The American South added Central Florida because they had indicated they planned to move I-A. Northern Illinois had agreed to enter a scheduling agreement with each ASC school as they moved to I-A and would join football only as soon as they got to the critical mass of six at the time. Lamar rather than pursue I-A dropped football but remained a member in good standing.

The league then merged with the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt TV deal conflicted with UCF's TV agreement (one was with SportsChannel Florida the other Sunshine don't recall which was which) and they were permitted to leave without notice one year after the merger because they had announced their move to I-A was on indefinite hold.

But at the time of the merger Lamar had attempted to block the entry of Arkansas-Little Rock. UALR had been invited to join by the old Sun Belt, Lamar wanted to rescind the invite (Lamar's hoops coach had come for UALR) and got no place with it. Shortly after Lamar withdrew to join the Southland citing travel savings.

Lamar has no one in the Sun Belt on the western side who would make the motion to invite them. I can tell you that one of our Board of Trustees members played against Lamar (threw one of the longest passes in AState history AT Lamar) and he wants nothing to do with them unless he's changed his mind in the last couple months. Our AD played against them as well and he will just say "I don't see them as a fit".

Lamar is carrying the burdens of past decisions, that may not be "fair" but life ain't fair.

So if I understand correctly, the Sunbelt won't even look at Lamar just because Lamar had hired away a coach from Little Rock, and stated that he didn't like his old school? Mike Newell was Lamar's head coach for only 3 years, and that ended 23 years ago. I'd be greatly surprised if anyone at a current Sun Belt school that would have anything to do with expansion is still around from then. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if most people at Little Rock didn't even know who Mike Newell was.

Even at that, why would that stop Texas State or UT-A from supporting Lamar? They were in the Southland together and I'm not aware of any issues between the schools during that time. Arkansas State was with Lamar in the Southland before both joined the Sun Belt, are they supposed to be pissed about Lamar's coach's comments regarding Little Rock?

I've often heard the Sun Belt doesn't want anything to do with any Southland Conference team, but I really have no idea why that would be the case. All of the western teams have history with the teams in the Southland that might move up. Is the eastern half of the conference that controlling that all new additions must be in the East?

Lamar's behavior leaving the Belt was noted, but they aren't getting a bid because they bring little upside to the league. If they had a lot of fans and were in a complementary location they'd be looked at.

I'm not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU in the case of an opening, but the opposition isn't coming from South Alabama fans. Its coming from Arkansas State and ULL fans.

NoDak, agreed on bigger vision.

And MVFC in FBS is just the thing for the Dakota four to accomplish it!

(02-08-2016 12:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 05:00 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 03:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Jacksonville left in the wake of UCF leaving because they wanted to play in the A-Sun with other Florida schools and had a few snide comments when Florida International then announced they were leaving the A-Sun to join the Sun Belt (and this was prior to FIU even studying adding football which came a few years later).

Uttering the word Lamar shows you have no clue.

Lamar was a member of the Sun Belt thanks to the American South / Sun Belt merger. The American South had Louisiana Lafayette, Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar playing football, Tech and AState upgraded to I-A and all had a handshake deal to play each other until such time they could start football in the league. The American South added Central Florida because they had indicated they planned to move I-A. Northern Illinois had agreed to enter a scheduling agreement with each ASC school as they moved to I-A and would join football only as soon as they got to the critical mass of six at the time. Lamar rather than pursue I-A dropped football but remained a member in good standing.

The league then merged with the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt TV deal conflicted with UCF's TV agreement (one was with SportsChannel Florida the other Sunshine don't recall which was which) and they were permitted to leave without notice one year after the merger because they had announced their move to I-A was on indefinite hold.

But at the time of the merger Lamar had attempted to block the entry of Arkansas-Little Rock. UALR had been invited to join by the old Sun Belt, Lamar wanted to rescind the invite (Lamar's hoops coach had come for UALR) and got no place with it. Shortly after Lamar withdrew to join the Southland citing travel savings.

Lamar has no one in the Sun Belt on the western side who would make the motion to invite them. I can tell you that one of our Board of Trustees members played against Lamar (threw one of the longest passes in AState history AT Lamar) and he wants nothing to do with them unless he's changed his mind in the last couple months. Our AD played against them as well and he will just say "I don't see them as a fit".

Lamar is carrying the burdens of past decisions, that may not be "fair" but life ain't fair.

So if I understand correctly, the Sunbelt won't even look at Lamar just because Lamar had hired away a coach from Little Rock, and stated that he didn't like his old school? Mike Newell was Lamar's head coach for only 3 years, and that ended 23 years ago. I'd be greatly surprised if anyone at a current Sun Belt school that would have anything to do with expansion is still around from then. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if most people at Little Rock didn't even know who Mike Newell was.

Even at that, why would that stop Texas State or UT-A from supporting Lamar? They were in the Southland together and I'm not aware of any issues between the schools during that time. Arkansas State was with Lamar in the Southland before both joined the Sun Belt, are they supposed to be pissed about Lamar's coach's comments regarding Little Rock?

I've often heard the Sun Belt doesn't want anything to do with any Southland Conference team, but I really have no idea why that would be the case. All of the western teams have history with the teams in the Southland that might move up. Is the eastern half of the conference that controlling that all new additions must be in the East?

Lamar's behavior leaving the Belt was noted, but they aren't getting a bid because they bring little upside to the league. If they had a lot of fans and were in a complementary location they'd be looked at.

I'm not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU in the case of an opening, but the opposition isn't coming from South Alabama fans. Its coming from Arkansas State and ULL fans.

In reference to Lamar, there is some improvement to be made, just as there is with just about every program. Just wondering about the "lot of fans" in conjunction with the "not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU" comment.

In football, Lamar averaged 9,364 this past season with one of the five home games played in a weather system bringing 10-12 inches of rain and with three of the games in rainy conditions. That averages higher than recent invite Coastal Carolina. By comparison, Sam Houston averaged 6,398 in football in eight home games. (The Bearkats' highest attended home game was against Lamar at 10,116.) The lowest home attendance for Lamar for a game played in a monsoon conditions was higher than SHSU's seasonal average.

Lamar is averaging 1,738 in men's basketball this season in a down year full of freshmen (would be in the middle of the Sun Belt) while Sam Houston is averaging 906 at home. The 906 average would be dead last in the Sun Belt. With a 2,173 seasonal average, Lamar would have been #2 in the Sun Belt in attendance last season.

Both Lamar and Sam Houston State would be in the middle of the Sun Belt in baseball attendance.

-------------------

The "complimentary location" is puzzling also when comparing the two. According to Google Maps, Beaumont is two hours away from Lafayette. Huntsville is four hours away. Beaumont is 3 hours 45 minutes from San Marcos. Huntsville is 3 hours away. Beaumont is 4 1/2 hours from Arlington. Huntsville is around 3 hours away. Beaumont is closer to every other Sun Belt member than affiliates New Mexico State and Idaho.

There is a regional airport 7 miles away from Lamar. The airport can handle just about anything except "heavies" like a Boeing 747's. For example, the airport has handled commercial scheduled flights including DC 9's, Boeing 727's, Boeing 737's and others in its history. Both Houston airports are less than 1 1/2 hours away from Lamar. Looking at Sam Houston State, Huntsville is about 1 hour away from one Houston airport and 1 1/2 hours away from Hobby. The numbers seem like a wash to me except for the close proximity of the regional airport for Lamar if charters are flown in.

Lamar sure made a nice investment in their stadium, too, when they restarted football.

What would this look like as a conferences for schools have dropped football or moved down in divisions? A lot of possible independents from these schools.

Wichita State
West Texas A&M
Washburn
Idaho
New Mexico State
Lamar
McNeese State
U. Mass.
Wayne State, Mich.
Illinois State
Indiana State

Washburn and Wayne State, Mich. might be FCS right now. That leaves 9 schools to form a conference. Subtract U. Mass. That leaves 8. The Dakota schools could be called up. Add either Missouri State, Youngstown State or Montana.

North:
Idaho
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Illinois State
Indiana State

South:
New Mexico State
West Texas A&M
Lamar
Wichita State
McNeese State
MIssouri State


Be a pretty good lineup of all sports conference.

(02-08-2016 09:33 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(02-08-2016 02:17 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 07:12 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  This is a big reason for the fall of Wichita State football. The rest of the Valley dropped to 1-AA, Tulsa I believe went independent for a bit and Wichita was struggling but refused to play at a lower level and ended up disbanding the team.

Much of the MVC left before that time. Schools like Houston, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, North Texas, and Tulsa were no longer compatible with Drake, Bradley, and Creighton. Even NMSU and W Texas left. Wichita St became like it's new conference mates, which meant dropping football as they wanted to fit into the new MVC. By not leaving, the WSU leadership accepted passively their new MVC fate. Now, after 30 years, it seems they want to reclaim what shold have been.

I don't think that Wichita State basketball would become as prominent as it's become if the school wasn't featuring it as its only signature sport. Dropping football allowed them to become the basketball power that they are.

Wichita was a top basketball school prior to dropping football. Poor leadership from the then president and AD with some horrible basketball hires is what led to a dormant period in the sport. Not having football also led to a decrease of around 4k in enrollment I believe as well.

(02-08-2016 02:06 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Before, it wasn't possible for the Dakotas to envision FBS. But now, the financials and population growth demand bigger visions.

How does this play out, though? Would North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota and South Dakota State all make the move to FBS at once?

The two Dakotas together only have about 1.6 million people. That's about equal to population of Idaho, about half the population of Mississippi and less than 15 percent of the population of Ohio.

Part of me wonders if one or more of the Dakotas would be a good fit in the MAC. Institutionally, these schools would seem a pretty good fit with ours. I like the idea of bringing in flagship schools, no matter how small the state. And if two or more up, each would be less of an island.

On the other hand, a population of 1.6 million seems like a shaky base from which to launch four FBS programs.

(02-11-2016 01:14 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(02-08-2016 02:06 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Before, it wasn't possible for the Dakotas to envision FBS. But now, the financials and population growth demand bigger visions.

How does this play out, though? Would North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota and South Dakota State all make the move to FBS at once?

The two Dakotas together only have about 1.6 million people. That's about equal to population of Idaho, about half the population of Mississippi and less than 15 percent of the population of Ohio.

Part of me wonders if one or more of the Dakotas would be a good fit in the MAC. Institutionally, these schools would seem a pretty good fit with ours. I like the idea of bringing in flagship schools, no matter how small the state. And if two or more up, each would be less of an island.

On the other hand, a population of 1.6 million seems like a shaky base from which to launch four FBS programs.

Minnesota and Wisconsin have one FBS team each. Add those populations in, and divide by six. Those are the states where much of the recruiting is focused. The South Dakota schools have some focus on Mizzou and Iowa. The four states, ND, Mn, SD, and WI, are the equivalent of Ohio, which has 8 FBS teams. I guess Ohio has too many.

North Dakota has population projections now for 2040 that exceed 1.4 mill. The oil boom hasn't exactly busted, as western ND still needs people. When it gets going again, especially with petrochemicals, is will be another big boom.

(02-08-2016 01:11 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(02-08-2016 12:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 05:00 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 03:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Jacksonville left in the wake of UCF leaving because they wanted to play in the A-Sun with other Florida schools and had a few snide comments when Florida International then announced they were leaving the A-Sun to join the Sun Belt (and this was prior to FIU even studying adding football which came a few years later).

Uttering the word Lamar shows you have no clue.

Lamar was a member of the Sun Belt thanks to the American South / Sun Belt merger. The American South had Louisiana Lafayette, Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar playing football, Tech and AState upgraded to I-A and all had a handshake deal to play each other until such time they could start football in the league. The American South added Central Florida because they had indicated they planned to move I-A. Northern Illinois had agreed to enter a scheduling agreement with each ASC school as they moved to I-A and would join football only as soon as they got to the critical mass of six at the time. Lamar rather than pursue I-A dropped football but remained a member in good standing.

The league then merged with the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt TV deal conflicted with UCF's TV agreement (one was with SportsChannel Florida the other Sunshine don't recall which was which) and they were permitted to leave without notice one year after the merger because they had announced their move to I-A was on indefinite hold.

But at the time of the merger Lamar had attempted to block the entry of Arkansas-Little Rock. UALR had been invited to join by the old Sun Belt, Lamar wanted to rescind the invite (Lamar's hoops coach had come for UALR) and got no place with it. Shortly after Lamar withdrew to join the Southland citing travel savings.

Lamar has no one in the Sun Belt on the western side who would make the motion to invite them. I can tell you that one of our Board of Trustees members played against Lamar (threw one of the longest passes in AState history AT Lamar) and he wants nothing to do with them unless he's changed his mind in the last couple months. Our AD played against them as well and he will just say "I don't see them as a fit".

Lamar is carrying the burdens of past decisions, that may not be "fair" but life ain't fair.

So if I understand correctly, the Sunbelt won't even look at Lamar just because Lamar had hired away a coach from Little Rock, and stated that he didn't like his old school? Mike Newell was Lamar's head coach for only 3 years, and that ended 23 years ago. I'd be greatly surprised if anyone at a current Sun Belt school that would have anything to do with expansion is still around from then. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if most people at Little Rock didn't even know who Mike Newell was.

Even at that, why would that stop Texas State or UT-A from supporting Lamar? They were in the Southland together and I'm not aware of any issues between the schools during that time. Arkansas State was with Lamar in the Southland before both joined the Sun Belt, are they supposed to be pissed about Lamar's coach's comments regarding Little Rock?

I've often heard the Sun Belt doesn't want anything to do with any Southland Conference team, but I really have no idea why that would be the case. All of the western teams have history with the teams in the Southland that might move up. Is the eastern half of the conference that controlling that all new additions must be in the East?

Lamar's behavior leaving the Belt was noted, but they aren't getting a bid because they bring little upside to the league. If they had a lot of fans and were in a complementary location they'd be looked at.

I'm not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU in the case of an opening, but the opposition isn't coming from South Alabama fans. Its coming from Arkansas State and ULL fans.

In reference to Lamar, there is some improvement to be made, just as there is with just about every program. Just wondering about the "lot of fans" in conjunction with the "not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU" comment.

In football, Lamar averaged 9,364 this past season with one of the five home games played in a weather system bringing 10-12 inches of rain and with three of the games in rainy conditions. That averages higher than recent invite Coastal Carolina. By comparison, Sam Houston averaged 6,398 in football in eight home games. (The Bearkats' highest attended home game was against Lamar at 10,116.) The lowest home attendance for Lamar for a game played in a monsoon conditions was higher than SHSU's seasonal average.

Lamar is averaging 1,738 in men's basketball this season in a down year full of freshmen (would be in the middle of the Sun Belt) while Sam Houston is averaging 906 at home. The 906 average would be dead last in the Sun Belt. With a 2,173 seasonal average, Lamar would have been #2 in the Sun Belt in attendance last season.

Both Lamar and Sam Houston State would be in the middle of the Sun Belt in baseball attendance.

-------------------

The "complimentary location" is puzzling also when comparing the two. According to Google Maps, Beaumont is two hours away from Lafayette. Huntsville is four hours away. Beaumont is 3 hours 45 minutes from San Marcos. Huntsville is 3 hours away. Beaumont is 4 1/2 hours from Arlington. Huntsville is around 3 hours away. Beaumont is closer to every other Sun Belt member than affiliates New Mexico State and Idaho.

There is a regional airport 7 miles away from Lamar. The airport can handle just about anything except "heavies" like a Boeing 747's. For example, the airport has handled commercial scheduled flights including DC 9's, Boeing 727's, Boeing 737's and others in its history. Both Houston airports are less than 1 1/2 hours away from Lamar. Looking at Sam Houston State, Huntsville is about 1 hour away from one Houston airport and 1 1/2 hours away from Hobby. The numbers seem like a wash to me except for the close proximity of the regional airport for Lamar if charters are flown in.

I get your argument. But look at the Conroe-Huntsville area growth numbers versus that of the Golden Triangle. One is growing - rapidly. The other isn't. For whatever reason, Beaumont isn't considered part of Houston but Huntsville-Conroe is. Houston is growing towards to Huntsville. Virtually no one lives between Houston and Beaumont. SHSU also draws more of its students from Houston. SHSU has much better football too.

Maybe Lamar should play a game at NRG like SHSU does. SHSU's home game at NRG shows that they can put up FBS numbers. And can do so in Houston.

Either way, neither SHSU nor Lamar are likely to be a serious candidate for the Belt at this time.

Schaden,

With NDSU, SDSU and USD, they have separate conferences for their football teams. So if it were possible for those three to move up to FBS as independents, perhaps that would happen. Those three would remain in the (one-bid) Summit League for non-football sports.

UND, on the other hand, is in the Big Sky which is an all-sports conference. It wouldn't be allowed to leave the conference for FBS football and remain in it for other sports.

(02-11-2016 02:46 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Schaden,

With NDSU, SDSU and USD, they have separate conferences for their football teams. So if it were possible for those three to move up to FBS as independents, perhaps that would happen. Those three would remain in the (one-bid) Summit League for non-football sports.

UND, on the other hand, is in the Big Sky which is an all-sports conference. It wouldn't be allowed to leave the conference for FBS football and remain in it for other sports.

Yeah, the other Dakotas would be heartbroken over leaving the Slummit. Billions of revenue and TV eyes there.

IE; The Slummit is the only way those schools can sniff the big dance with home court advantage in the Dakota metropolis of Sioux Falls.

Whether it's ever used or not, being in non football summit gives option of FBS only. You take what you can get to prop the door open

(02-11-2016 05:30 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Whether it's ever used or not, being in non football summit gives option of FBS only. You take what you can get to prop the door open

Presuming, of course, that there's anywhere to be FBS only. With conference title game deregulation a reality, the one conference that has football-only members, the Sun Belt, no longer needs them because getting to 12 teams no longer has the same value, and certainly not when two of them are on islands. The MAC has no more football-only schools. CUSA doesn't. The Mountain West (Hawaii) and the American (Navy) have one to get them to even divisions, but unless Hawaii drops football, nothing there is changing, and neither conference is likely to add a start-up/FCS move-up no matter what.

So unless programs are given the ability to move to FBS as an independent, I don't see any reasonable path for an FCS program to make the jump to anything other than as a full-sports member of an FBS conference. And those seats are few to none at this point.

(02-11-2016 07:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 05:30 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Whether it's ever used or not, being in non football summit gives option of FBS only. You take what you can get to prop the door open

Presuming, of course, that there's anywhere to be FBS only. With conference title game deregulation a reality, the one conference that has football-only members, the Sun Belt, no longer needs them because getting to 12 teams no longer has the same value, and certainly not when two of them are on islands. The MAC has no more football-only schools. CUSA doesn't. The Mountain West (Hawaii) and the American (Navy) have one to get them to even divisions, but unless Hawaii drops football, nothing there is changing, and neither conference is likely to add a start-up/FCS move-up no matter what.

So unless programs are given the ability to move to FBS as an independent, I don't see any reasonable path for an FCS program to make the jump to anything other than as a full-sports member of an FBS conference. And those seats are few to none at this point.

All true. But you never know the future. Always good to have options

Cyniclone,

Yes, that is what I would advocate for NDSU, for example. To be given the right to move to FBS as an independent, and try their hand. Maybe it doesn't work out, or maybe it does.

But there's no valid argument for preventing them from doing that. The rules simply don't allow it, at the moment.

(02-11-2016 02:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-08-2016 01:11 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  

(02-08-2016 12:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 05:00 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 03:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Jacksonville left in the wake of UCF leaving because they wanted to play in the A-Sun with other Florida schools and had a few snide comments when Florida International then announced they were leaving the A-Sun to join the Sun Belt (and this was prior to FIU even studying adding football which came a few years later).

Uttering the word Lamar shows you have no clue.

Lamar was a member of the Sun Belt thanks to the American South / Sun Belt merger. The American South had Louisiana Lafayette, Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar playing football, Tech and AState upgraded to I-A and all had a handshake deal to play each other until such time they could start football in the league. The American South added Central Florida because they had indicated they planned to move I-A. Northern Illinois had agreed to enter a scheduling agreement with each ASC school as they moved to I-A and would join football only as soon as they got to the critical mass of six at the time. Lamar rather than pursue I-A dropped football but remained a member in good standing.

The league then merged with the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt TV deal conflicted with UCF's TV agreement (one was with SportsChannel Florida the other Sunshine don't recall which was which) and they were permitted to leave without notice one year after the merger because they had announced their move to I-A was on indefinite hold.

But at the time of the merger Lamar had attempted to block the entry of Arkansas-Little Rock. UALR had been invited to join by the old Sun Belt, Lamar wanted to rescind the invite (Lamar's hoops coach had come for UALR) and got no place with it. Shortly after Lamar withdrew to join the Southland citing travel savings.

Lamar has no one in the Sun Belt on the western side who would make the motion to invite them. I can tell you that one of our Board of Trustees members played against Lamar (threw one of the longest passes in AState history AT Lamar) and he wants nothing to do with them unless he's changed his mind in the last couple months. Our AD played against them as well and he will just say "I don't see them as a fit".

Lamar is carrying the burdens of past decisions, that may not be "fair" but life ain't fair.

So if I understand correctly, the Sunbelt won't even look at Lamar just because Lamar had hired away a coach from Little Rock, and stated that he didn't like his old school? Mike Newell was Lamar's head coach for only 3 years, and that ended 23 years ago. I'd be greatly surprised if anyone at a current Sun Belt school that would have anything to do with expansion is still around from then. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if most people at Little Rock didn't even know who Mike Newell was.

Even at that, why would that stop Texas State or UT-A from supporting Lamar? They were in the Southland together and I'm not aware of any issues between the schools during that time. Arkansas State was with Lamar in the Southland before both joined the Sun Belt, are they supposed to be pissed about Lamar's coach's comments regarding Little Rock?

I've often heard the Sun Belt doesn't want anything to do with any Southland Conference team, but I really have no idea why that would be the case. All of the western teams have history with the teams in the Southland that might move up. Is the eastern half of the conference that controlling that all new additions must be in the East?

Lamar's behavior leaving the Belt was noted, but they aren't getting a bid because they bring little upside to the league. If they had a lot of fans and were in a complementary location they'd be looked at.

I'm not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU in the case of an opening, but the opposition isn't coming from South Alabama fans. Its coming from Arkansas State and ULL fans.

In reference to Lamar, there is some improvement to be made, just as there is with just about every program. Just wondering about the "lot of fans" in conjunction with the "not opposed to the Belt looking at SHSU" comment.

In football, Lamar averaged 9,364 this past season with one of the five home games played in a weather system bringing 10-12 inches of rain and with three of the games in rainy conditions. That averages higher than recent invite Coastal Carolina. By comparison, Sam Houston averaged 6,398 in football in eight home games. (The Bearkats' highest attended home game was against Lamar at 10,116.) The lowest home attendance for Lamar for a game played in a monsoon conditions was higher than SHSU's seasonal average.

Lamar is averaging 1,738 in men's basketball this season in a down year full of freshmen (would be in the middle of the Sun Belt) while Sam Houston is averaging 906 at home. The 906 average would be dead last in the Sun Belt. With a 2,173 seasonal average, Lamar would have been #2 in the Sun Belt in attendance last season.

Both Lamar and Sam Houston State would be in the middle of the Sun Belt in baseball attendance.

-------------------

The "complimentary location" is puzzling also when comparing the two. According to Google Maps, Beaumont is two hours away from Lafayette. Huntsville is four hours away. Beaumont is 3 hours 45 minutes from San Marcos. Huntsville is 3 hours away. Beaumont is 4 1/2 hours from Arlington. Huntsville is around 3 hours away. Beaumont is closer to every other Sun Belt member than affiliates New Mexico State and Idaho.

There is a regional airport 7 miles away from Lamar. The airport can handle just about anything except "heavies" like a Boeing 747's. For example, the airport has handled commercial scheduled flights including DC 9's, Boeing 727's, Boeing 737's and others in its history. Both Houston airports are less than 1 1/2 hours away from Lamar. Looking at Sam Houston State, Huntsville is about 1 hour away from one Houston airport and 1 1/2 hours away from Hobby. The numbers seem like a wash to me except for the close proximity of the regional airport for Lamar if charters are flown in.

I get your argument. But look at the Conroe-Huntsville area growth numbers versus that of the Golden Triangle. One is growing - rapidly. The other isn't. For whatever reason, Beaumont isn't considered part of Houston but Huntsville-Conroe is. Houston is growing towards to Huntsville. Virtually no one lives between Houston and Beaumont. SHSU also draws more of its students from Houston. SHSU has much better football too.

Maybe Lamar should play a game at NRG like SHSU does. SHSU's home game at NRG shows that they can put up FBS numbers. And can do so in Houston.

Either way, neither SHSU nor Lamar are likely to be a serious candidate for the Belt at this time.

Population -

1. There is only a 6 minute difference in travel time (without traffic) to downtown Houston for SHSU and Lamar according to Google Maps.
2. The Beaumont area is right next to, but does not need to depend on Houston for a major source of fan support. The Beaumont-Port Arthur MSA has over 400,000 with an additional 100,000+ outside of the MSA boundaries within a 20 - 30 minute drive. Looking at the Sun Belt demographics, at over 405,000, the Beaumont-Port Arthur MSA is in between the Myrtle Beach, SC and the Savannah, GA MSA's. It is much larger than some of the other SBC MSA's.
3. Just give Houston growth some time. As one of the real estate ads used to say, "There's no more land being made." Houston growth has been heavy in every direction about 40-50 miles from downtown except the east so far. There is still land in those areas, but it is getting built up. As a result, growth is starting to pick up on the eastern side with residential additions out to the Trinity River (about 20 miles from the Jefferson County line).

Here's a link to a great site showing projected population growth trends through 2060: http://proximityone.com/demographics2060.htm

Playing in one of the domed stadiums -

I think Lamar playing in one of the domes is a great idea and was done in the past. Several games against Southern Mississippi were played in the Superdome. There were also several games played at the Astrodome. Still, I think the BOTPW game is a better situation because it is now an annual event and has been around long enough to increase local interest. I would love to see something like that.

Serious candidate -

I agree that the short term window may be closing. That could be a good thing depending on moves by the universities. Lamar has spent around $40-50 million in athletics facilities improvements over the last 5-10 years. Facilities are in very good shape. The planned $5-6 million baseball stadium renovation is the remaining item. Taking a "glass half full" look, time could help absorb the cost of those facilities upgrades freeing up more to be directed to the programs. Even so, the Lamar athletic budget is already higher than some current SBC members, but is admittedly on the low side.

(02-11-2016 05:30 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Whether it's ever used or not, being in non football summit gives option of FBS only. You take what you can get to prop the door open

That option is unlikely to be available in the future. Idaho and NMSU were available at closing time at the bar. They got picked up because they were there and willing to say yes.

There might've been a teeny, tiny part of it being that Benson felt bad for screwing up the WAC, so he threw Idaho and NM St a life preserver.

(02-12-2016 02:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  There might've been a teeny, tiny part of it being that Benson felt bad for screwing up the WAC, so he threw Idaho and NM St a life preserver.

Actually, the Belt needed some shoring up as it had faced repeated raids. And conference realignment was less settled back then.

Realignment has largely settled. The Belt now has five or six teams that are performing well, so losing one or two teams isn't going to be create a devastating crisis like before.

We needed NMSU and Idaho back then.

(02-12-2016 02:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  There might've been a teeny, tiny part of it being that Benson felt bad for screwing up the WAC, so he threw Idaho and NM St a life preserver.

Sun Belt Presidents make affiliation decisions, not Benson, and they are not in a mood for charity.